@@ucanliv4ever Do you count how many times the organization has fear mongered armageddon throughout the history of its existence? Do you count how many kingdom halls are built from the free labor of the congregations' backs just for the organization to sell for profit? Do you count how many witnesses are silenced and never see their abusers face consequences because the elders weren't instructed to do the bare minimum of getting local law enforcement involved until 2021? Do you count how much money you give to an organization that uses your money to hire lawyers to defend the organization's pedophiles?
@@ucanliv4ever Your own governing body just told you that counting hours isn't something Jehovah requires. Incidentally, the Bible Jehovah inspired, tells you that too. Get a brain and start using it.
@@thecornucopiasystemsavage but necessary reply Brother System. We loved your use of imagery helping us see how a metaphorical foot on their necks from a Pharisaical real estate company = divine instruction. I mark you (G)ood and look forward to your next “talk” 😅
It would be tough to compare effectiveness of the two models unless their messages were the same. They're not. I think the motivation behind the removal of the tracking requirement is that the numbers are slipping and they don't want that known. It's easier to say "you don't have to track" than it is to try to browbeat people into doing the hours. I think the last time I ran numbers based on their annual reports, they did something like 19,000 hours per baptism, and the baptisms included their own kids. It's been a while so I could be wrong on the details, but suffice it to say that the preaching work is becoming increasingly unfruitful. I have no doubt that the proliferation of the internet has played a major role in that. The public can find the WT's dirty laundry, and the WT is finding it harder to control what information the publishers can see.
Ray Franz was a self absorbed egomaniac. Furthermore, RIP and your usage of it means you don't know the Bible. It's meaningless because everyone that dies is resting in peace. So you are implying otherwise is a possibility. This is Catholic dogma.
@@ucanliv4ever you clearly have not read Crisis of Conscience’ Ray Franz is a highly intelligent human who saw the real truth to what the organization was doing. He had the inside information that neither you or any other rank and file have regarding the inner workings of the Watchtower
I don't need to read it...published 40 years ago has scarce little to do with the org today. He's like the guy who cried foul on the 10 yard line and got penalized for delay of game. Meanwhile the clock ticks and play resumes.
You're in good company ( not) with a man who doesn't know what RIP implies. And wears a useless mask...the only thing exjw's can agree on is that they hate jw's
@@ucanliv4everactually the org today has the same organisation first arrogant mindset today as back then. So in that way nothing has changed, except the org has doubled down on arrogance
@@majafleur9646. Go on Google and find out how many millions the preachers on your RU-vid get! I won’t name names on here. I do have a conscience! Witnesses are in all, nations of the world preaching, so I’m sure they each get a few dollars for so many expenses, etc. think about it! These videos are made to make money too! For each …LIKE…… they get paid more! They love to pick on the witnesses, but our lord will be coming soon! Many will be exposed! So watch out! Witnesses never cause problems…they are good people!
Jehovah knows how many hours you spend in the ministry so you don't need to report that anymore, but he does not know if you were in the ministry so please tick that box 😂😂
Jwdotorg is very similar to the Mormon and Seventh day Adventist websites. Kid videos, music videos, testimonials, Jesus videos, free online Bible lessons…
@@pamelasloan1664 me too! Pedophiles or polygamists, or polygamous pedophiles? Magic pyramids or magic glasses? Golden tablets or the Golden Age? Which witch is which?
LDS and JWs are simply different franchises operated by the same corporation, which owns both. "Family Worship Night"- invented by LDS, plagiarized by JWs. Fun Fact: a relative of Joseph Smith was a Board member of the original WT corporation and worked alongside CT Russell. Still think there's any separation between the LDS and WT? _"The _*_Watch Tower Society is not a religious society_*_ for public worship, such as a church, _*_but is a business corporation..._*_ The said Corporation by its Board of Directors, a majority of whom shall constitute a quorum for the transaction of business."_ -"Facts For Shareholders", p.2, November 15, 1917 P.6, witnesses/officers assisting CT Russell filing WT Charter with County Recorder *"Jos. F. Smith"* is one of the signers. "Joseph Fielding Smith Sr. (November 13, 1838 - November 19, 1918) was an American religious leader who served as the sixth president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). He was the nephew of Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, and was the last president of the LDS Church to have known him personally." The WT Charter was registered on November 12, 1884, meaning that Jos. F. Smith was a high-ranking member of the LDS Church at the time he was involved with CT Russell and the establishment of the WT Corporation.
I'm just curious to know what will happen on November 6th. Then they will introduce their new brochure called 'Love Jehovah, make disciples'. Interesting timing: November 1st no reporting time anymore, but on November 6th they introduce a brochure about making disciples?! Hmmmm🤔 I suspect more 'new light' will be coming our way...
Now, Did you know that now more and more LDS returned missionaries are sharing a book prophesied by early prophets of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? It is the companion to the Book of Mormon [the blue book is the unsealed portion]: "The Sealed Portion, The FINAL Testament of Jesus Christ PDF" Today's mormon leaders do not want anyone to read this book. The irony! Specially chapters 12, 18, 20.
In the early 70's the Mormons sent 'elders' to every JW congregation, specifically to the Theocratic Ministry School (Tuesday or Thursday nights) and very soon thereafter the Mormons copied the school as good training. After that I always thought the WT and Mormons were kind of hand in glove and just waited for the 10% tithing as a money raiser.
I was a Jehovah's Witnesses for 30 years and left to become a Latter day Saint, many similarities in their beliefs, the fact is I was reading a report that said 25000 Jehovah's Witnesses from Canada and the USA are now Mormons, the WatchTower boys have to change because they have seen so much negativity
I find it hard to believe that 250,000 LDS have become JWs. I am LDS and find the JW doctrine to be really gross for the most part - LDS doctrines are a LOT better that JW. The 423,000, I can believe. All religions are losing members as society turns its back religion for atheism and secularism. It is not just LDS or JW's that are losing lots of members.@@jmark7390
I see them more , and more to tele-evangelizing. Less Kindom Halls, less primed materials, less preaching, and I even see the sale of the bethel building. T4s
The average witness lied anyway. In my Cong, guys were putting in 20 hours a month, taking a lot of mags. (I was mag Servant) yet NEVER saw them at the groups or peddling on the street
@@ericthuesen1 i went to the jw church for some time and i was thinking to become a member and start preaching in the streets, houses, in the end I didn't become a member and I didn't go anymore, now I see that it wasn't such a bad decision 😅
Each have distinct prophetic expectations... Witnesses believing in a new system and Latter-day Saints believing they will rule as judges in the millennium
Yup. Phil's got it figured out, as usual! Now just send the plans into HQ (Attn: Jehovah) so this can be considered before the next round of New Light talks! 😊 Phil for GB
@@ucanliv4ever children getting baptized requires minor adult interaction. Minors enlisted as publishers interact with adults in the TMS. Minors in field service interact with multiple adults. Minors participating in congregation assistance (cleaning, gatherings, etc) have to interact with adults.
JW door-to-door “ministry” was really a magazine/book business for WT. But as that business model unraveled, they’ve have to evolve in order to survive. Some of what works for the Mormons might just work for the JWs.
That's what I was thinking when I saw the annual meeting: The product has changed. It used to be the literature that they were selling, but since that's no longer profitable, they've switched to selling a lifestyle brand. Then they realized that no one wants a JW lifestyle! The Mormons are known for being nice and kind, and I think that Sanderson's warm and fuzzy talk was him saying that JWs need to shed their toxic image to be more appealing. (Like the Mormons.)
I think door to door is dead. Society has fundamentally changed. Husband and wives now work so can’t be reached during the week. Families are busier at the weekends. The only enduring model is online. WT are investing a lot into media.
I’ve always appreciated the way you point out the intersections between Mormonism and JWs. I think, no matter how indoctrinated the GB may be, they surely recognize that they’ve inherited not just a religion, but a business. And the only business model they could adapt to is what the LDS church has done (they’re in too deep to suddenly shift to pure Scientology “pay to play” grift). All of which is to say, you’re onto something. Great commentary as always!
13:10 You just mentioned “Nazarites” if jdubs start referring to themselves as Nazarites, could this possibly provide a loophole to relax the restrictions on facial hair, to allow beard fractions ? I think the attitude about preaching depends on when someone joined.
Church is still volunteer and based on calling, so that's what's pretty fantastic about it. I mean, maybe yes, there are some paid positions in the church, but at the local level the bishopric is volunteer
That’s not entirely true: - There is frequent appeals for money at conventions and on the broadcasts - Giving money is often spoken of as a privilege and responsibility - Pieces of paper have been passed around the congregations and members asked to write down what they can give each month It is true if you choose not to give anything that is ok, so good on them for that.
Community life in the LDS is very easy to participate in... There is also a single scene 31 plus and single ward specifically between like 20 and 30 ..
before I have even viewed the video I must say a big yes! I agree entirely and would say they made the shift a long time ago, because of the jw misapplication and meaning of the word 'elder'
I think that The Blue Envelope is a brilliant channel name. Having read editions of Shepherding The Flock of God, I was very shocked to learn of Blue Envelopes and Child Abuse...that Elders would send details of such perpetrators to JW Head Quarters father than the Police!
I haven't watched the video yet, just started -- but, the answer is yes. The "SHIFT" has arrived, the acclamation and evolution into a standard, evangelical religion.
To the gentleman who said paper was passed around the congregation well I've never seen that in 50 years stop knocking these good people there the best friends I ever had
How ❓ how is it about money Im jw and I've never asked anyone to pay for watchtower And we dont get forced to pay tithes It's VOLUNTARILY donation simple No govern body member or bethelite use members money to fly PRIVATE JET
How ❓ how is it about money Im jw and I've never asked anyone to pay for watchtower And we dont get forced to pay tithes It's VOLUNTARILY donation simple No govern body member or bethelite use members money to fly PRIVATE JET
I am Mormon and in some ways they are similar, but their doctrines are not similar at all. Mormons believe and encourage higher education, we also believe that modern technology is a blessing from God, and therefore we consider blood transfusions a blessing from God. The JW doctrine on the 144,000 we would consider ludicrous! There are too many more differences to even cover them all! The JW’s should consider being a lot more like the LDS. They really hold their people back from reaching their full potential.@@MouseQueso
@eileenpierce1023 I agree with you. The religions are definitely different doctrinally, but structurally they are very similar.. and they also use the same mechanisms to survive, just tuned to different volumes. For every 1914 style nonsense the JW's dig up, there is an equally silly 'catalyst theory' for BOM and book of Abraham translation. Social pressure, rules, and international obscurity of history and doctrines are the names of the game
@@MouseQueso What is the catalyst theory? I've never heard of that. As for our history, there are volumes available to anyone who cares to know about it. The History of the Church series has I think about 8 volumes. The church is releasing several volumes of the Joseph Smith papers, which include everything written by Joseph Smith. Doctrines are as plain as day on the Church website, if anyone should care to know about them. There are books written that includes all the discourses (talks) given by past Prophets of the Church. Obscure? I don't think so.
LDS is a way bigger religion because they encourage having children! Watchtower has always discouraged it and tell people to pioneer instead. They are paying the price now.
I so enjoy your channel and insights. Our community so lacked it, in my view. I watch Mormon Stories, Elph on a Shelf. Always wondered why were not doing it. If I am a we. But LDS set up universities, are keen on business skills and so cherish and archive their history. When you read about the handcart trek, I wonder. But they have such zanies, too. MLMs take advantage of many. Everyone remarks how Mormons at the door are so much nicer and polite than Witnesses. I only had a single visit. They were unsophisticated. I feared for them in north NJ and NYC. Ripe for bad thugs. I chatted. This 18 yr old kid was so surprised that mainstream Christianity clearly see Jesus and Christ so radically different than Mormons or Witnesses. How do you deal with it if you are clueless? We have so many cultural things in common. Same rough location and time. Fascinating.
In the Mormon Ward where I live, I have known a handful of Missionaries who have 'Returned Early'. Mostly these 'REM' have returned for health reasons. Multiply this number of dropouts (REM)-as I observe-globally; which could mean a sizeable number.
The Mormon model always reminds me of the compulsory military service for young men (and I believe also for young women) in Israel: 2 years mandatory military service, and then you are done, until called up for war. Mormons on their 2 year stint are also supported financially and paid $$, are they not? Witnesses do EVERYTHING for the borg for free...
I believe there is a monthly fee to be paid! Last I heard they pay their own way, usually with help from their families. Sometimes their ‘wards’ (churches?) fund raise funds to help them, which is nice. Since the ‘church’ does tithing it’s obscene they don’t foot the bill! Good comparison to military service!
As a Mormon who has served a mission I can tell you that it is simply a personal choice whether to go on a mission or not. I converted from Catholicism as a teenager at 16 and served a mission at 19. Totally my choice. The same goes for today…it’s a spiritual choice one makes. Yes, we do finance our own way 100%. Many kids work to save up money for their missions and/or the family has a missionary fund that they build up, since most kids do choose to go. I must say, at that age, choosing to serve a mission is one of the best choices you can make. It’s a great springboard for the rest of your life. Teaches you how to live with a companion 24/7 which is a great prep for marriage. Teaches you how to manage your limited finances and live on a budget and finally, it can solidify your testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ for the rest of your life… and so much more. It definitely takes you from a boy to a man (similar to the military I guess), but in a spiritual way!
Hey Friends! Mormon convert here and of course the caption picture caught my eye. I served my mission in Ecuador in the mid 80’s. It was the BEST two years of my life (for real) but as we Latter-day Saints say; “Once a missionary, ALWAYS a missionary!” One great thing about my mission was the constant “bumping into” the JWs on the streets. I was always so confounded by the fact that we were willing to take and read any of the JW literature but they would never take any of our pamphlets… so weird 🧐. I remember the 2x my companion and I went to the Kingdom Hall, once was with one of our investigators… I felt totally comfortable going. Out of respect, we took off our black name tags so as not to call too much undue attention to ourselves. Happy to report we baptized that investigator. Currently the our church has about 65,000 full-time missionaries… that includes the young Elders, Sisters and older couple missionaries. But with 17 million members now, a vast majority of us are returned missionaries who still love to share the gospel. Many times we’ll go on “splits” with the full-time missionaries. We also have “ward missionaries” so each ward (congregation) has several people in the ward who help out in the work. The only time I’ve ever reported hours was when I was on my mission… usually each missionary logged in 75 hours or so a week. I’m not sure if they still do that tho. Our missionaries mostly work by referral. Not so much door knocking for the last few years. We also have thousands of missionaries who teach online thru our churchofjesuschrist.org website. All the languages are represented. Anyways….I love keeping up with our JW and ExJW neighbors thru utube channels like this! Keep up the great work, guys!
I think Watchtowers going to do a name change like the Mormons did by not wanting to use the name Mormon but be called LDS. Maybe Watchtowers going to change to Jesus Witnesses or something else. I noticed they are mentioning Jesus a lot more.
Wasn't a name change. Mormon was always a nickname that the lds church mostly tolerated, sometimes embraced for the sake of familiarity, but never really liked. It's been called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since 1838.
Mormons have to pay to go on their missions. I had a friend that worked really hard to save up to go on her mission. She ended up Italy and did meet her future husband who was there on a mission also.
David Splane put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine.
Where are y’all getting all these details from the annual meeting that those that are actually apart of the organization aren’t even getting yet? The info about reporting time was posted in the JW app. But that’s all. Nothing else made public to my knowledge.
No comparision, JW have missinaries all over the world well educated graduated fron their USA schools . And also pinoneers in every congregation amd also common people They call piblishers
As I understand it, you call the metode of lifetime preaching in public and from door to door «the Jehovah’s witness model». And yes, they are famous for doing so. I haven’t heard of or seen others than they that do it that way. But actually, it is in fact the Biblical model - the Bible model used by the first Christians. They were of course true Christians, being taught by Jesus. 1) Jesus sent his disciples out to preach two and two. Luke 10:1: «After these things the Lord designated 70 others and sent them out by twos ahead of him into every city and place where he himself was to go.» 2) The very first Christians preached from door to door. Act 5:42: «And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.» 3) Everyone of them was preaching: Acts 8: 1, 4. «…On that day great persecution arose against the congregation that was in Jerusalem; all except the apostles were scattered throughout the regions… those who had been scattered went through the land declaring the good news of the word.» 4) Nothing in the Bible indicates that Christians was doing so in just a limited time during their lifespan. 5) The true Christians was to do this globally. Matthew 28:118-20; Acts 1:8. If we had lived in the first century and had seen people going two and two, preaching publicly and going from door to door, who would we likely think they were? The first Christians. Likewise today. When observing two and two preaching in public and going door to door, that is the Biblical metode the true Christians according Jesus should use. Globally. Jehovah’s Witnesses use that metode. Globally. Who else? No-one else. Romans 10: 13-15: For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!» Did you note that it said «How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out?» So did I. These «good news» is the same good news Jesus talked about - the topic that runs as a red thread through the Bible, Gods kingdom and what it doing and is going to do, making the earth as supposed in the beginning. Long story short, everlasting life on a paradise earth :) (About your short clip from a JW who said he would not miss the door to door service when it is finished. A clip out of contest can easily be misunderstood. Case Is - as Jehovah’s Witnesses see it - in the future, this door to door preaching Jehovah's witnesses are doing will end. But first there will a change globally. According the Bible, after a time periode that is described in detail - and the details look like the time periode we now live in - Gods kingdom, God government will destroy the human systems of ruling, all the human beings governments around the earth. After that, during a time periode there will be a resurrection, people will get life once again after being dead for some time. When this resurrection and education periode is done, the Bible tells that everything will be as supposed in the beginning. The questions raised in Genesis chapter 3:1-5 is then answered - and all evil is then destroyed. It is then people will be able to look back at the then finished public and door to door service, and can say that they do not miss it. Why not miss it then is because it then once again is a paradise on earth. - According the Bible. Until Jehovah God says stop, true Christians will proclaim it globally. What should worry people is not Jehovahs witnesses coming to their door, but when they finish doing so. Those who want to get accurate bible education can contact Jehovah’s Witnesses, for example via their web page - jw .org - in more than one thousand languages!!! - Matthew 24:14:»And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.»)
the funny thing about it is to write so muchto be wrong all over...sad.........open a different bible than the counterfeit NWT.........in luc 10:7_8 .....DON T GO FROM DOOR TO DOOR.......so the jws model is unbiblical......... the apostles were preaching in open spaces ,besides the sea ,or rivers,marc 4:1_2......,in a house in each village where people were coming to hear the good news marc 2:1_2.......,in synaguogues actes 13:14,etc...NEVER FROM DOOR TO DOOR.........so mormons and jws have it well wrong there...nand we know that what is not from God ,is from the anti christ...
