Attachment - Barrisoka? 👀 | Fixing Ahsoka | TCW S2E8 

Oh, absolutely

Noooooo, Adi, you're better than that! 😭 I despise whoever popularized the reverse grip in cinema. It's so impractical and dumb.

@@imyouralibi6208Well, it was in 2000, so long before a reverse grip was seen in cinema.

Hmm, I've never really seen their bond as sisterly. Anakin and Ahsoka's relationship is definitely framed as a sibling-esque one (though I'd ultimately disagree with that framing), but Barriss and Ahsoka's relationship doesn't really have that. Honestly, as is, they don't have much of a relationship at all given that Barriss only shows up in a prominent role for two arcs in the series. You could argue that the near-death experience that the two girls shared created a strong bond between them, but even then, it feels like nothing more than a typical peer relationship. Even when Barriss betrays her, Ahsoka doesn't seem that torn up about it, and it doesn't even factor into her reasoning for leaving the Order. But I think what makes people gravitate toward the ship is: 1) the opposing personalities of Barriss and Ahsoka (due to the whole "opposites attract" principle); Barriss is more logical while Ahsoka acts on her emotions, and that kind of contrast can create very interesting relationship dynamics. 2) There are certain moments that lend themselves to the idea of Ahsoka and Barriss being in a very close relationship. The biggest one is probably when Ahsoka refuses to kill Barriss and they end up passing out together with Barriss cradled in Ahsoka's arms. Anyway, I used to ship them until I realized how shallow the relationship actually is, but now that we're getting the chance to fix Ahsoka's character and alter certain events, we figured we'd try our hand at writing Barrissoka and see how it turns out. On a side note, are there actually Star Wars fans who think "inc*st is just great"?? Like, I've seen a lot of gross ships in the SW fandom, but I don't think I've ever seen people ship Luke and Leia.

@@imyouralibi6208 I'm talking about the series and comics. In the comics, their relationship is portrayed more as that of a big-little sister. For instance, during one of their sparring sessions, Ahsoka deactivates her lightsaber and throws it at Barriss' face to win the duel. Barriss later says she didn't learn anything that way and did it only because, as a friend, she didn't expect that. This leads to what could be described as a mild argument or an intense exchange of arguments. Later, Barriss goes, presumably, to Luminary, and Ahsoka goes into her room, admitting to herself that Barriss was right. Another example might be the Battle of Phorose, where there are several scenes highlighting their friendship. Ahsoka manages to escape a threat, and Barriss is literally happy. Barriss questions the sense of the battle and the role of the Jedi, and Ahsoka puts her hand on Barriss' shoulder. Barriss wants to help others despite evacuation orders, and Ahsoka immediately comes up with an alternative route. Several times, they compliment each other, maybe even motivate one another. In The Clone Wars, only the beginning and end of their friendship are shown. The problem here is Barriss because, in the first arc, she is either quiet or under the controlle of a brain worm, and in the second arc, she is distraught by what she did and then becomes a full-blown extremist. They didn't really even show Barriss personality. That's why personally, I'm hoping for Tales of the Jedi to develop Barriss' character and present their friendship.

@@hehu4025 Oh, I haven't read the comics so they didn't even occur to me 😅 Better to hope that Barriss doesn't show up in any more of Filoni's shows. He's ruined her character more than enough.

@@imyouralibi6208 I hope she will show up. I really like her character, even what they showed in The Clone Wars. I agree that Filoni hurt her character because there was clearly not enough time for Barriss. I heard that there were apparently plans for other stories, including Barriss as the main character, but for some reason they were abandoned. (Maybe they already knew that Disney would take over Lucasfilm or they wanted to focus more on Anakin and Ahsoka. I don't know. It can also be fake.) The books and comics fixed it slightly, but it's not the same as appearing on the screen, which is why she is still very misunderstood by fans, and she is a very complex character. Plus, considering that Filoni constantly refers to her and now I think even voice actress confirmed that there are plans, I really wouldn't be surprised if season 2 of Tales of the Jedi was about Barriss or maybe she would have some cameo in Bad Bach. And in my opinion it's good because she simply deserves it.

@@hehu4025 It's not just a matter of her character not getting enough time. Filoni turned her into a hypocrite and a terrorist. He completely destroyed the core of her character. Barriss is a selfless Jedi Healer, not someone who suddenly goes off the deep end at the drop of a hat. And I highly doubt Barriss will be anything more than a cameo or a throwaway character in Filoni's future work. All he cares about is making lame fanservice and putting Ahsoka front and center. If you're looking for good Barriss content, I hear the Medstar duology is superb. Anyway, if fans misunderstand her character, it's their own fault for refusing to read the stories that do her justice. Having more onscreen representation of Filoni's garbage version of the character isn't going to fix the problem, it's only going to make it worse.

“the difference between peacekeepers and warriors isn’t that clear” A peacekeeper’s role is to achieve, well, peace - often through negotiation/diplomacy. A warrior’s role is to achieve victory - typically through aggression/violence. You can keep *order* through violence and/or the threat of violence, but the presence or threat of violence isn’t peaceful, and thus can’t honestly be considered “keeping the peace”. And, again, Ahsoka was raised by an organization that, logically, would have taught her that. “Is there anything else…?” Well, yeah. They suggest directly in the episode that it could simply be the clones turning traitorous, as clones have done before. The strange worms could be a Geonocian stomach parasite or something. 🤷‍♀

@@imyouralibi6208 In most cases, though, peacekeepers do use violence and/or have to be prepared to respond to the use of the same… “The presence or threat of violence isn’t peaceful”… conceptually, I understand what you’re saying, but practically speaking, if everyone is kept in line by the knowledge that committing crimes or disturbing the peace would result in punishment from the peacekeepers (which doesn’t always have to be violent, by the way), then they’d probably commit less crimes, and therefore have a more peaceful society or, as you put it, a society with more “order”. To most people, that’s what “keeping the peace” means: maintaining order. I do acknowledge the nuances here, but as long as people’s lives are good (or better then they previously were), they will put up with or turn a blind eye to many things (and this “peacekeeping” wouldn’t even be anywhere near the worst of them). As for her training, and this is nitpicking, but there’s a difference between theory and practice. She clearly takes after Anakin, whose methods are a bit… less than orthodox, for a Jedi. Perhaps her time on the battlefield and her participation in the war in general have blurred the lines between these two concepts from her perspective. Just a thought, though. Do with it what you will. As for the worms, don’t you think that it’d be a *more than a bit* coincidental that a theretofore unknown Geonosian stomach parasite just so happened to infect the clones on the very same day that those same clones decided to betray the Republic (and by attacking two Jedi by themselves, no less)? I know that correlation doesn’t always mean causation, but this would at least warrant a mention.

@@Adam-326 “peacekeepers do use violence and/or have to be prepared to respond to the use of the same” Yes, peacekeepers would have to be prepared to fight - that’s why Jedi train to use the Force and wield lightsabers - but they would not be going in with the objective to engage in a fight (like a warrior would). Instead, they would go in with the objective of avoiding fighting entirely, if at all possible. But if they could not avoid it, their goal would be to use only the amount of force necessary to defend themselves and others, and not engage in aggression/violence above and beyond what was necessary to secure safety. For example: In the beginning of TPM, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were sent to negotiate with Gunray. Once they were attacked, they fought to protect themselves and try to gain control of the bridge. But if Qui-Gon had gotten through the blast doors, he would not have gone on to attack Gunray; he would simply eliminate any hostile droids and then sit down and negotiate with Gunray. Whereas if a warrior was sent on that mission, his goal would likely be to eliminate Gunray or force him to surrender, regardless if Gunray requested to negotiate a compromise. “would result in punishment from the peacekeepers (which doesn’t always have to be violent, by the way)” Peacekeepers are not the same as law enforcement. They are not punishing criminals, whatever that may look like, to maintain order in regular-functioning society. They are often going into larger scale conflicts between differing societies (in a sense) as a neutral third party in an attempt negotiate peaceful solutions. As far as I understand it, the latter was the role of the Jedi across the galaxy, not the former. “To most people, “keeping the peace” means: maintaining order.” Most people are not raised in a peacekeeping organization that would understand and teach them the difference since they are being trained to fill that role eventually themselves. “She clearly takes after Anakin” I have a personal pet peeve about the mentality that Anakin is at fault for influencing Ahsoka’s behaviour when she is clearly shown in her debut (the TCW movie) to already possess the flaws that she does - even though she hasn’t spent any meaningful time with him. But I get it, the series does a really good job of blaming Anakin over and over and over again, and I assume you know what they say about when a lie is repeated often enough… As for her perception being blurred by her time in the battle: Yes, the Jedi are primarily acting as warriors in this conflict that (at the time of this episode) has been going on for a little over a year. But, A) I find it hard to believe that the 11 years of teaching which took place before this conflict started would fly out the window of Ahsoka’s brain so quickly. And B ) Given that, across the series, Ahsoka is witness to several conversations where others (including Jedi Masters) comment how the Jedi’s role in this war is not what it should be, it seems weird to suggest that she’d somehow still not realize there's a difference between what they’re doing and what she was taught she was supposed to be doing. “this would at least warrant a mention” Warranting a mention, sure. I’d be fine with it if the girls presented it as a working theory and acted in general caution until more evidence could be gathered. But that’s not what we got. We got them immediately jumping to a conclusion (that just so happened to be exactly correct), and then banking everything on that: feeding that conclusion to their superiors as fact and crafting their entire defense around it.

@@imyouralibi6208 Fair points, but I'd like to mention this: the differences between a peacekeeper and a warrior relate to their objectives and, to a lesser extent, their modi operandi. We can agree that a peacekeeper has the primary objective of keeping the peace, which may or may not involve violence. A warrior (or, rather, someone who's not a peacekeeper) has the objective of completing their mission successfully. It could be to negotiate, to assassinate, to protect, or even to engage in conventional warfare, to give a few examples. Using your example of TMP, yes, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were sent to negotiate with Gunray, which is why they went in peacefully, as anyone else would do, given that they weren't being attacked at that point. As for negotiations, of course they would've been attempted because they were told to negotiate with him. Had they been told to arrest him, they would've done so instead. On the other hand, they likely would've refused an order to assassinate him, given that it would violate the Jedi Code. Regardless of the method used, it is likely that had it been successful, the blockade would've been lifted. Also, given the fact that Jedi literally have the ability to manipulate the minds and actions of most sapient life forms, negotiations with them seem just a bit unethical, but that's neither here nor there. Going back to peacekeeping, due to the scale of the Republic's war with the Seperatists, there are a lot of cases in which a peacekeeping mission could begin as or devolve into a large-scale conflict (such as when defending civilians) in which the Jedi would be leading the clones into battle. I suppose that Ryloth was an example of such a case. When it comes to what the Jedi learn at the Temple, it's certainly a whole lot more than just peacekeeping, so Ashoka's 11 years there would most likely have been spent learning and practicing a variety of skills, Jedi or otherwise. As for her... let's call it "forgetfulness," I would personally chalk it up to something like confirmation bias and the influence of her peers, both clones and Jedi. This is also where Anakin comes in, and I believe that I misspoke by saying that Ashoka "takes after him." What I meant was that he is her mentor, and she's been with him for long enough to see his tactics and their results firsthand, in addition to what she may have heard from other people. I know that she was always "flawed" in that way, but her being assigned to a mentor who isn't the best example of what a Jedi should be doesn't really help much. It wasn't really supposed to be blaming him, specifically. When it comes to what she's overheard relating to the Jedi's role in the conflict, this epidode takes place relatively early in the war, so she probably hadn't put too much thought into it at the time. And yes, you are right that the Jedi wouldn't be the ones maintaining the order on a large scale, even though they may leave one or two behind in order to oversee and/or coordinate certain aspects of it. That would most likely be the responsibility of the Republic or local law enforcement, if they're in a position to take over or resume duty, as the case may be.

@@Adam-326 I think we may be talking past each other. 🤔 In context of Ahsoka and Barriss’ debate, I understood it to be that they are questioning the difference between a peacekeeper and a warrior as a concept, as opposed to a role. Yes, someone who acts as a peacekeeper can also act as a warrior or vice versa (the Jedi do exactly that in the clone war). But that is one person acting in two distinctly different roles. If Qui-Gon had been sent to negotiate and he’d just cut off Gunray’s head, I think we’d agree that he’d failed to act as a peacekeeper - even if he succeeded in lowering the blockade - because, as a concept, being a “peacekeeper” is different than being a “warrior” even if one person can wear both hats. And as the Jedi for the past many-thousand-years have been acting as peacekeepers (placing high value on preservation of all life and thus striving for negotiating peace as opposed to “winning” it through fighting), and raising the new generations to do the same, I think Ahsoka should understand the difference between the two concepts. “it's certainly a whole lot more than just peacekeeping” If someone was sent to a special private school to be raised to be a mathematician, of course they’d be taught reading and writing and basic science and history and all that too, but I’d find it really strange if after they graduated they were still confused about what the difference was between being a mathematician and being a historian. “she's been with him for long enough to see his tactics and their results firsthand” Yes, so I would understand if her confusion was over why the Jedi were still insisting on being peacekeepers instead of being warriors in this conflict. TCW actually handles it decently well with Anakin and Tarkin together in the S3 Citadel arc where they discuss how “the Jedi values prevent the Jedi from going far enough to achieve victory, so they make poor leaders in a war”. But when it comes to Ahsoka, it seems she’s just struggling to figure out the difference between two concepts that she should already understand.

Lol, too late! 😝 Though we probably won't get too deep into it, honestly.