You don't even need to go to the other side, just do it on the same side you're working on. Put screwdriver under caliper, put a little torque to keep it from falling out, then torque it to spec.
Here is a better trick, put the wheels back on and back down on the ground. Then pop out be center cap of the wheel (if equipped) and torque to 600 ft/lbs 😂
Why would I want to go through all the trouble of putting the wheels on lowering it down torquing it and raising it back up? Either hold the brakes or put a screwdriver down through the caliper into the rotor
It depends on the bearing. With Fords at least, it's usually 80ft/lbs then 90°, which comes out to around 350ft/lbs. That's usually all the more dick a 1/2" impact gives by the time the nut stops spinning. So yes, the ugga duggas work there. Your milage may vary.
Yeah, but then about you begin to notice that at least 1/3 of the jobs you've done, will have premature failure of the replacement bearing. It could last 30,000 miles or 60,000. With a torque wrench, they last longer.
Another tip is run it down with the gun then back it off and then put wheel on and leave center cap off and the toque from there. I do both ways depending how fast I gotta get things done
I never thought of that, however you're still putting weight on a bearing that isn't torqued to spec. Granted, once the hub is fully seated it's probably fine, even though it should already be when it is pressed in. Maybe they say to torque it first because some guys don't fully seat the hub when pressing it in? I can see how that method would possibly work, I just can't see myself doing it that way. Possibly having to do the job again for free isn't worth chancing it to me.
You can always use a, 2x4 or pry bar or 1/2 extension or your grandma’s cane to wedge between the seat and the brake pedal to stop the axle from moving. Lol
The parking brake doesn't work on front wheels. Also, a lot of vehicles require the nut to be torqued before any weight is on it, and putting weight on it before it is torqued to spec can damage or shorten the life of the new bearing.
@@notsevenfeettall the whole idea of this is to torque the nut before any weight is on it, which is the proper way to do it and why the wheel being worked on (front in this case) is off without the weight of the vehicle on it.
@@darkhorseautoanddiesel I think that guy was trying to say "You can't do it that way. When you torque the center (read: axle) nut, it has to be off the ground
had a police interceptor come in from another shop.. effing axle nut was loose. torqued it then my torque ratchet exploded at 250 ft lbs. so yeah, tightened with an impact till i heard the sound change pitch
Not saying it’s perfect but a pry bar in the wheel studs works well too. I can’t help but think the fins would snap. Also won’t work on most rwd vehicles.
If the fins snap in the rotor then I'd say it was junk already. Pry bar in the studs can work, but I don't like doing it that way for 2 reasons. 1: you can damage the threads on the studs, although threading lug nuts on first would eliminate that problem, and 2. if you don't have the pry bar sitting quite right, it can launch out at mach 4 causing injury or worse, knocking your beer over. I just use the parking brake for RWD vehicles.
Yes, it stresses the pawl, but not at a level that you need to worry about. Just as torque is increased by the gearing as you go progressively "downstream" through the drive train, it is decreased as you go "upstream". In this case, first, the torque applied to the "near end" of the differential is half of what you apply with your wrench because the diff gears are sending half the applied torque to the opposite axle (the one that's pinned). For the remaining half of the torque which is sent toward the transmission, that's reduced by a factor equal to the reduction ratio of the final drive. Putting it all together in an example, let's say that the required torque on the axle nut is 200 lb-ft, and let's say that the reduction ratio of the final drive gears is 3.8. Using those figures, the torque applied to the output shaft of the transmission will be 200 lb-ft x 1/2 x 1/3.8 = ~ 26 lb-ft, and that isn't very much. The specified torque and the reduction ratio will probably be a little different from this example, but this illustrates the principle that's at work here, and you can see that the torque applied to the output shaft of the transmission will be pretty small.
It might not be enough weight to hurt anything, but I still wouldn't do it that way. Many vehicles, including this one, state specifically in the shop manual NOT to do that, since putting weight on a bearing that isn't properly tightened can cause damage and shorten its life span.
@@darkhorseautoanddieseland still there are other manufacturers that state the opposite it is always good to know the correct procedure and and torque for the particular vehicle your working on.
I've got a flat bar in my tool box with a few holes drilled in it, I slip it over the studs and either let it contact the ground or hold it as I torque the axle nut. Quick, easy, and safe. Don't forget to peen over the nut or install the cotter pin so it don't loosen up as you drive too.
I like that idea! So much that I might even make my own. 👍Not sure why I never thought of that, I did something similar for the pinion nut on the rear axle of my truck. Be prepared though, there's plenty of people that have commented here that are possibly gonna give you grief if they see this because you not only actually torque them instead of just giving it some ugga duggas and calling it good, but you even went as far as making an extra tool to do it. According to the many of the comments, guys like us are the dumb ones. 🤷♂
I've done that before, but no longer do for 2 reasons. 1, I've had the pry bar launch out, which obviously isn't fun, and 2, I've had damaged threads on the studs. This way is safer and won't damage stuff.
I don’t like using components in this fashion. You put the stress on the caliper and rotor vanes. Just leave the other wheel on the ground and the tire will keep it from moving. It’s one of the benefits of not having a solid axle which doesn’t sit on one jackstand very well sometimes. Actually why is the axle nut loose in this case? There’s a new rotor yet the rotor doesn’t need to be on there for the axle nut to be tightened. Put a pipe between the studs on the hub and brace it against the ground. That’ll keep your hub from spinning when your torque the nut and puts no force on the cv shafts
If doing this damages the rotor, it was junk already. This also doesn't put any stress at all on the caliper because the punch is locked against the caliper bracket. I had the other wheel off already because I was doing a brake job along with the bearing, so that's why I did it this way. The nut was loose because it was a new bearing that I'd just installed. As far as bracing it against the ground, I've had damaged threads on the studs before from doing that, and I've also had the pipe, or pry bar in my case, get launched because it wasn't sitting quite right. That was not fun. The stress on the cv shaft from torquing the axle nut is nothing compared to what it sees on a normal drive.
I worked in transmission field for 25 years I've removed and put back more CV joint axles then you could shake five sticks at and I have never ever torqued an axle nut. And I've had zero issues
No offence, but I wouldn't trust you to rebuild a transmission if you don't use a torque wrench. Every vehicle is going to have a different torque spec for their axle nuts.
@@VanMan89 Cuz you're obviously a moron that knows nothing about automotives and it's a customer like you that I wouldn't want my shop anyway that knows zero about mechanics that's why you're bringing it to me but then you're going to sit there and tell me how to do it You're the type of person I tell the fuck off and leave
Of course you haven't had any issues, you are the transmission guy, not the wheel bearing guy. I don't know anyone that would take their car to a trans shop to have a wheel bearing replaced. You'd also likely never know the damage you did to the bearing since there would probably be enough time in between you giving it the ugga duggas and the bearing failing that the customer wouldn't connect the dots. I'm not saying that not torquing it is guaranteed to cause a bearing failure, but it's far more likely than if you took an extra 30 seconds to do it right. I smoked cigarettes for over 13 years, a pack or more a day (I quit almost 2 years ago) and never had an issue. That must mean it was good for me right?
And if any driveline component can't handle this amount of torque, then it is the worst designed POS ever. With gear ratios and torque multiplication, the torque at the hub and differential output splines at full throttle and first gear will be over 1,600 ft-lbs on even a weak econobox car.
@@darkhorseautoanddiesel where are you getting your numbers from? A typical wide ratio transmission in first gear has a 3:1 ratio, so we're talking around 400ft-lb if you gun it to max torque. Have fun wrecking your cv joints ✌️
Man.. I've been a mechanic for 24 years and never have I or have I know anyone to torque a axle nut. I've worked with up to 30 techs at a time (dealership) You must be a diy guy 👍
I'd say im somewhere in the middle. I'm not a professional, as in, being a mechanic is not my primary source of income nor do I do it full time 40+ hrs a week. However, I do have a lot of people that bring me their vehicles, I don't just work on my own. I'm probably just borderline OCD hahaha. I'm very meticulous with my work, which is why I usually take 2x the amount of time as what the labor guides say. But I don't like having to do stuff right the 2nd time, I'd rather do it the 1st. Also, I've seen way too many hack jobs done and decided I'm gonna be better than that. I don't take short cuts that have any possibility of compromising safety or longevity, which is why I have so many customers and referrals.
@@darkhorseautoanddiesel So in other words you lack the confidence that an actual mechanic has. This is where the I do it right and you do it wrong (hack) argument comes in.. 24 years experience 40 hours a week I own my own shop and don't torque shit other than critical engine components. I sleep every night beating the labor guide 98% of the time with little to no comebacks. To each their own I suppose. I never realized until the internet blew up how many remote mechanics we had in the world working from a bedroom or a shade tree garage (not professionally trained) and giving advice to the world of auto repair. It blows my flipping mind 🤯
@@clintrea1 Uh, no. I don't lack the confidence of an "actual mechanic". In fact, I'd say I'm better than some (not all of course) being that I've actually fixed things that were messed up by an "actual mechanic". There's also probably some of the Dunning-Kruger Effect going on. So let me get this straight, because I prefer to do things PROPERLY, such as applying the CORRECT amount of torque to a fastener, in which failure to do so may cause damage, and have made a video with a tip on how to make doing so easier in order to help others do the job PROPERLY, that somehow means I'm not as good as you, the professional, that apparently just uga-dugas the piss out of it with an impact and calls it good. Yeah, ok... On one hand, maybe you're right and having the proper torque on an axle nut isn't critical. That's not a chance I'm willing to take, however. On the other hand, I kinda feel bad for your customers, being that you clearly think you know better than the manufacturer and don't use a tool that was invented for a reason very often. No, I don't use a torque wrench on every fastener, just ones that improper torque can cause damage or create a safety issue. The fact that you watched my video and made comments for no other reason than to tell me that I'm wrong for doing it right is laughable. It's not like I'm giving wrong advice, there's plenty of that going on, some of which is done by "professionals". Check out Powerstrokehelp and his changing of HPOP oil for a good example of that.
I'm supposed to put it on the car. I was told recently there's a law somewhere that says there is supposed to be one mounted in the exhaust system. I'm still trying to figure out the installation process though. Stupid thing won't hold still.
The other thing about using the same rotor is the way it can't put any strain on the parking pawl. I found this discussion interesting. Based on the comment thread, evidently many flat rate pros routinely cut the service data corner and don't torque the axle nut to spec. With old style bearings that would be a critical error, but they feel new style bearings don't need to be so exacting. I'm not a torque NAZI, but I have to agree that I read and follow the service data manual. Sure it takes a minute longer to torque one of the most critical nuts on a car. I sleep better, the chance of unrecognized damage is lower, and I avoid the mistake of arrogant ignorance that comes from cutting corners that are put in the manual for a reason. We should all be afraid of what we don't know.
The parking pawl shouldn't take any torque, even with the holding tool on the other side, as long as its an open differential. A limited slip it could though, if the pawl caught before the tool did. Although even if it took all the torque it probably wouldn't hurt it, but I'd rather not chance that, hence using the tool to begin with on either side. I'd definitely put it on the side I was working on if I didn't already have the other wheel off. I agree 100% with the rest of what you said. It blows me away how many professionals cut corners like that, then wonder why mechanics have such a bad reputation.
@@darkhorseautoanddiesel I agree with you about how robust the parking pawl is, especially when one considers the added mechanical advantage it has because of the diff gear ratio. It's definitely strong enough to hold back that torque without damage. The one point I will bring up is if the opposite wheel is frozen, and the wrench is on the other wheel, that wrench torque is transmitted through to the propshaft, even with an open diff. The next time you're under a vehicle, play with it when one wheel is on the ground. If you slip the transfer case into neutral, have a buddy spin the raised wheel, and try to hold him back by holding the prop shaft. The two are directly linked together through the ring gear when the opposite wheel is frozen.
@@spelunkerd Now that you've got me really thinking about it, you're right. Although the amount of torque going back through the differential is gonna be half of what you're applying to the nut (or maybe actually 1/3?). You're right about the mechanical advantage, with a 4:1 diff ratio, even if all the torque went to the pawl, the diff would actually reduce it by 75%. So in this case, 180 ft-lbs at the nut would equal 45 ft-lbs at the pawl in this example. Realistically, it'd be more like 22.5 or maybe even 15 ft-lbs once the fact of the torque split is considered. Unless I screwed up everything in my head, that pawl probably barely feels a thing.
I will agree that a lot of vehicles are junk these days, however if a differential can't handle around 200 ft-lbs when even a gutless econobox is easily capable of applying 500+ ft-lbs to it, then that is one of the worst designed cars ever made.
Until you don't having sitting quite right and the prybar launches out at Mach 4, causing personal injury, or even worse, knocking you beer over, or hitting your sports car in the next bay. I know from experience, thankfully not the sports car part.
When reinstalling, should i lift the knuckle and cv to a neutral/level position when torquing? I recently put all new suspension on my 2015 cherokee, upon test driving im getting a weird vibration like feeling-not too much in the steering wheel and only on acceleration(fwd when not in 4x4) and im wondering if i maybe installed the axle nut incorrectly. Torque specs and everything is good but since i did the front a bit ago, i cant remember how i had the knuckle and cv when i was tightening
The position of the suspension shouldn't matter for torquing the axle nut. It matters when tightening things like control arms with bushings but not the axle, at least not that I've ever seen.
Your supposed to put the screwdriver or punch on the same side your tightening the axel nut. If you do it that way you damage the axel or the parking gear in the transmission. Somebody stop him before he messes someone's car up.
Same side works well too, you just might have to deal with gravity trying to relocate that tool to the floor depending on what position everything is. As far as damaging things, I can see where someone would think that, but in reality, they barely feel a thing. Follow along here and I'll show you why. The weakest component that is seeing any torque here is the parking pawl, which, although is typically only made of aluminum, it is on the other side of the differential (this is important). Math and physics time. A diff works by taking input torque and multiplying it to the output. On a 4:1 ratio (most vehicles are near this) that would mean that 100 ft-lbs of applied torque equals 400 ft-lbs at the output splines. More on this later. When we reverse the input and output as we are doing here, the diff will actually divide the torque by it's ratio. This means that the 180 ft-lbs applied here will equal about 45 ft-lbs at the pawl. We aren't done though. We still have to take into account that the other wheel is absorbing half of the applied torque, which 180 ÷ 2 = 90. 90 ÷ 4 = 22.5 ft-lbs at the pawl. Parking a multiple thousand pound car on even a slight incline is almost guaranteed to put way more stress on it than that. Now on to the engine torque part. I think we can all agree that a car engine that produces a max of 100 ft-lbs is a pretty pathetic engine. Now let's play with gears. Most vehicles have somewhere around a 4:1 first gear ratio in the transmission. 100 ft-lbs of engine torque is now 400 ft-lbs. Now that torque goes through our 4:1 differential. We are now at 1,600 ft-lbs of torque being applied to the output splines of the diff and the axle shafts. The car in this video has a V6 that is rated for 205 ft-lbs peak torque. First gear is 4.15:1. Diff is 3.46:1. 205 x 4.15 x 3.46 = 2,943.595 ft-lbs. What exactly are we damaging here?
I saw someone comment on this. But the easiest way I know is put the tire back on and lower the jack till the tire is just touching the ground to prevent rotation, but the jack is still lifting all of the weight of the car off the suspension. Correct me if I'm wrong I tighten my tire lugs like this aswell
It's better than setting the full weight on it, but it's still some, so I personally wouldn't do it. It might not ever cause a problem, but with how easy it is to just stick something in the rotor on either side, why chance it? Plus it seems like a pain to slowly set it down just enough and then rely on a made in China oring on the jack to hold it there and not drop. That works fine for lug nuts, but again, seems like more work than it's worth. For lug nuts I put the tire on, hand thread each nut on a few turns, then hit 2 opposing ones back and forth until the wheel is fully against the hub, then hit them all in a cross pattern to about 2 uga-dugas, lower the vehicle, then torque to spec. This method usually requires about 1/4 turn before the torque wrench clicks. Then I hit each one again in a cross pattern over and over until none of them move before the wrench clicks. Then re-check at 50-100 miles.
@@darkhorseautoanddiesel well I only use a 3 ton jack for any work besides changing tire that requires lifting the car so bringing the car down smooth and fast is easy I want to see a video of someone testing this some how to see the results of all available options, would definitely open everyone's eyes
@@Bob_dobalena I'm used to my 15+ year old jack that doesn't like to release smoothly, but even if it did, I still wouldn't do it that way. The thing with testing whether or not you will actually cause damage to the bearing by doing it "wrong" would be about impossible to determine. There's so many variables that happen on the road that going by the number of miles before failure wouldn't work to figure out what the actual cause of failure is. The only way to really test it would be on a test rig in a controlled environment, and I lack the time and space for that haha.
You CAN do it that way, but you shouldn't. Many vehicles, including this one, state specifically in the shop manual NOT to do that, since putting weight on a bearing that isn't properly tightened can cause damage and shorten its life span.
@@julesviolinalright then smart guy, why don't you tell us your ideas. Say something productive instead of just throwing insults. Maybe start your own RU-vid channel telling people the supposedly right way of doing it. If I'm so stupid and have a successful channel, you should have no problem at all doing it.
Technically, you're supposed to wait till all four tires are on the ground and then torque to final setting. This is just a bad and possibly dangerous way.
You also can put that punch in the same place on the rotor your tightening. You’d have to keep constant pressure on it until the torque wrench clicks to prevent it from falling out the bottom. This is how I torque my wheel lugs after rotating them while it’s still up on the lift.
You can do it from the side you are on. The cast cooling fins in the rotors can break.. easy on the right model Not all calipers have cooling slots A 18" breaker bar against the break pedal with the other end covered with a rag wedged against the seat, then use the seat adjustment to be your helper. Not terrible, but you do this enough, you're gonna break a fin, and your going to have an issue that feels like a bad balanced tire.
Thank you. I know the feeling. The idea of "old" can be rather subjective, but I definitely forget stuff all the time. I've gone back and watched my own videos before to remember how I've done things.
Push the centre cap off the wheel, Put the wheel on, Lower the vehicle till wheel touches the ground, Torque and lock the axle nut, Put the center cap back on. Job done!
I memorized my torque spec for my pressure plate but axle but has always been ugga dugga till it stops. Then happen the tab in. I wonder what negative consequences I’ve added.
Also depends on bearing type, yes there are some you should absolutely do by hand... but, yea if it's not one of those, I let the rotor and all spin until I hear a distinct sound that let's me know it just tightened the nut. The fact it was spinning when I let off tells me it's not too tight. I still check drag by hand. Never had an issue on test drive, never had one come back for a wheel bearing. I have a good feel for my work and I'm well acclimated with my tools
If that was a good idea I'd have done that. However, ther service manual says in black and white NOT to put weight on the bearing before the axle nut is torqued to spec. Most vehicles are like that. You risk damaging a brand new bearing.
@@darkhorseautoanddiesel well I'd love to see where in your service manual it shows or says to put something in a vented disc rotor and try to hold it. Some manufacturers do say you can load the bearing asit is not shock loaded while rotating.
@@bazjones8075 I'd love to see in your manual where it says to put it on the ground before tightening. I'm not gonna say that it's bad for every vehicle, but most of the ones I've worked on specifically say not to. If it is a bearing/hub assembly then it's usually fine, but if it's separate pieces like this one, it's not a good idea.
@@darkhorseautoanddiesel agree to disagree really. I've seen problems arise from jamming things in vented disc rotors and I'm saying i wouldn't do it. I was just suggesting something not a personal attack so i won't be giving advice anymore which is a shame as i enjoy helping people as i have been in multiple trades for 30+ years in automotive, heavy diesel transport, construction and material handling equipment. Good luck to you mate.
I didn't take it as a personal attack, nor was I personally attacking you, I was just responding. Keep giving advice man, as long as it's good. Hell, even if I was attacking you, keep doing it. I've been personally attacked in the comments on this very video. Guess what, a few jerks ain't gonna blur my vision for this channel, which I started for the main reason of helping people. Agree to disagree is what we will have to do. As far as I'm concerned, if sticking a punch in the rotor and putting some torque on it causes damage, the rotor was probably already junk. I've personally never had an issue doing it, although that's not to say it's impossible.
If that was the right way to do it, that's how I'd have done it, which would make this video pointless. Doing it that way can cause premature bearing failure. I know this from experience. Plus, on vehicles that it matters, the service manuals and the papers in the box the part came in tell you specifically NOT to do that. I feel like the engineers that actually designed the part know more about proper installation than a wrench turner.
I don’t like doing it on opposite sides of the vehicle you end up putting the full torque value through the drive train, just stick a punch or screw driver into the rotor between the caliper and caliper bracket that way you are forcing your torque value onto the screw driver and it won’t bind the drive train, I doubt it’ll every break anything but at the same time if something is bordline sketchy every lil bit of precaution helps
I understand the concern there, but the math says that the drive train barely feels a thing, if it notices at all. Even on a crappy econobox car with an underpowered engine, much of the drive train is seeing multiple times the amount of torque being applied to the axle nut on a daily basis. Putting it on the same side works as well, but depending on the position of the caliper bracket you might be fighting the never ending force of gravity trying to relocate your holding tool to the floor though, hence why I did it on the other side in this case.
You can get away with that on some vehicles, but many, like this one, state in the service manual and in the information provided with the bearing from the manufacturer specifically NOT to do just that. Doing so can cause damage to the bearing. It likely won't be immediately apparent, but it can drastically shorten the life of the bearing. I know this from experience with my mom's 2004 explorer. I used to replace rear wheel bearings about every year or 2, and I torqued them down using the method you suggested. Once I started torquing them down without any weight on them, after over 5 years both rear bearings are still going strong.
Yes, that is also a good way to do it. It just takes longer than sticking something in the rotor and there is the possibility of damaging the seat, especially if they're the thin "leather" they use these days. I definitely forgot the beer part though, which was quite dumb of me.
You are correct. I had already torqued it to spec before I recorded this, and the nut rotated while doing it. I was just using the torque wrench again to show that it works.
What if its rwd and the diff doesnt lock? Hand break works. But what iff its rwd and your doing the front? Big prybar between brake pedal and seat works too.
If it is RWD and you're working on the front, you wont have an axle nut like this. Using something between the seat and brake pedal works too, I just don't like the risk of damaging the seat. Leather can puncture or tear pretty easy.
That's all fine but why did he miss the screws that hold the rotor in place? They're useless once the rims are torqued down, but when the rims aren't on those screws help keep the brake grease off the rotors by eliminating contact.
I just use anything long, preferably something like a big pipe wrench or pry bar, propt one side to the ground and the other between the hub bolts. There ya go, you got enough counter force to torque it down without messing with the calipers or rotor.
Long screw driver (bar) on brake pedal against seat front. If they are power seats it’s real easy. Just run it up until enough pressure is on the pedal. If regular seat just move it up and diagonally jam the driver or bar on the pedal and front of seat. Or, just impact it until good enough. Especially, if it has a lock ring and cotter pin. It’ll never loosen up. Just don’t over do it with the impact. 😊
All of my vehicles have a center cap on the rims so I just take that out.put the tire back on and tighten the axle nut threw the center cap hole with the tire on the ground
That's not a good way to do it. It works fine as far as doing the job, but you run the risk of damaging your bearing. Many vehicles, including this one, state specifically in the manual NOT to do that since putting weight on the bearing when it's not tight can damage it.
TL;DR - don't be rude, be helpful instead Hold up there big guy, I dont have a problem if people like you wanna run your mouth, or fingers in this case, as long as they have something useful to back it up, and as such, you should provide some good reasons why and give some smarter alternatives instead of just popping off with insults. Many of the viewers that see your comment might wanna see your ideas too, maybe they are better than mine. Maybe you can even make your own youtube channel that is better than mine. The main reason I started this channel was to help people fix their own vehicles, and part of that is the fact that there is a lot of videos out there with bad information so I wanted to help, give back to, and improve the community that I've turned to many times for my own repairs. Maybe you can have the same success.
As long as it's an open differential, the 30% that it doesn't work is probably because you forgot to put the trans in park (automatic) or 1st gear (manual). That's the only time I've ever had it not work 🤣
You CAN do it that way, but you shouldn't. Many vehicles, including this one, state specifically in the shop manual NOT to do that, since putting weight on a bearing that isn't properly tightened can cause damage and shorten its life span.
