Great video. However, I am disappointed that you didn't put Cleveland (a CL) in your DD tier list. Realistically she should have been in the SS tier of your DD tier list, but I can understand why you would only settle with S tier. But to not put her in the tier list at all has left a bad taste in my mouth and I hope moving forward you can consider the meta defining characteristics of Cleveland. Good job Jimmy from Azur Lane.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Jimmy. I certainly won't deny that we have biases when it comes to tiering DDs, or that the DD section of ECTL has gone quite some time without a thorough overhaul. I know that you have your thoughts on our contention consideration process, but if you're willing to post about some of the issues you see on our server-well, we have our public contentions event underway right now anyway. :)
Her damage is inconsistent on auto and strong on manual. The chinese wiki highlighted that damage inconsistency. For reference, i think her damage is on par with unzen at manual against heavy armor.
Hatsuzuki actually regularly out damages Kawakaze for me when sortied together thanks to her piercing barrage, Kawa definitely still does more single-target but Hatsu does very good AOE in my experience, which combined with her fleet-wide DR makes her very nice for mobs imo.
What's the reason for the tier gap on both yours and ECTL for Kazugumo vs. Hamman II? Is there really a two tier diff in personal damage and tankiness (since their Air Raid Assist looks like the same damage buff), when Hamman II also provides AA
My reason is that Kazagumo plays well with Shinano comps and deals much more damage. Hammann II is actually slightly tankier than Kazagumo and can equip the elite damage control, and like I said in the video I could be convinced that she should be in A tier, but I just value the damage more and don't personally use Hammann much because she's always angry.
I like your tier list, very well reasoned. While I generally point to EN Tier list to give new players an example of how to fit out their ships, which ENTL does well, I always tell them to take the tiering with a grain of salt. Laffey II for example is not on the same level of Shimakaze as a damage dealer, but she does provide more utility than Shimakaze. Also highly disagree with ENTL's tiering of CV's. They Obviously rate utility over damage dealing, and after w15 Perseus's weaknesses became glaring to me. She's not a good choice of healer for long fights. Unicorn Kai > Percy. Finally, I tried using Hamman II in w15, and her issue was that one random torp hit would essentially nuke her. On paper she looks ideal, but in practice her HP pool is too small.
In regards to Hammann 2, did she get nuked on safe? I've tried using Kazagumo on safe and didn't run into any survivability issues, and Hammann should be even tankier than Kazagumo. If you were referring to lethal clears, then it should be expected that it would happen, but since there are very few ships, all of which are rated in the highest tier, that can guarantee a clear without resetting at all on lethal, I would not hold it against Hammann in particular that she might occasionally get unlucky and die.
@@JimmyAL This was after I had safed 15-4 and was figuring out mob fleet comps to grind for Houston II reliably. I tried Hammann II, but even in the central position she'd get nuked by a random torp. After that I stuck with CL hulls and above, using torp bulges. iirc my grinding mob fleet had Harbin, San Diego Kai, and Shimanto up front. (Note that I managed to catch Houston II before L2 was available)
I see, thanks for sharing. Did you try using double mountain cat and torpedo bulge as well? That's what I usually roll with and it goes a long way to minimizing the chance of being instagibbed by torpedoes.
It's me or every new videos has lower and lower audio, im watching stuff with 3-4 and for yours I need to raise it up to 6-7 8:55 I once asked why the placement was like that, the answer was they listed in some specific order being (rarity>research>gacha) thats why its (DR>UR>PR>SSR) and that was consistent but at some point after BisZwei I think the guy in charge just slapped whenever. Otto/Felix I love them but having no decent ASW/AA is just sad
I don't get it either... people throw out "Vanguard Healer!" ... But she heals 1% of HP every 10s. A Toolkit heals 1% every 15s. So she's *slightly* more effective than a toolkit? This to me does not a top tier destroyer make.
8:29 To be fair AL just has way too many ships now, and it's at a point that you don't even really need a tier list. I heard the main creator of the tier list is busy IRL or something. I'm sorry to say, but the game cycle is meh, and the current challenge for me is Challenge Mode, META one shots and that's it. META one shots are of course harder and more +13 gear dependent. Current state: 1) Oil cost limit killed Blues and commons, especially zombie ship queens (Cassin, Downes, Phoenix) 2) Ignore the Elites they are 99% worthless and often way past being power crept 3) Read the skills of the new SRs, then you can make a snap decision on whether the ship is great, gimmick, or worthless 4) In addition to that new Ships/retrofits that have quite specific roles tend to replace existing ships or are on par (e.g. Tai Yuan easily replaces An Shan and Chang Chun, or Sovetsky can keep up with Bismarck) 5) Integrate the latest UR into your fleets 6) Stats HP, FP, TRP, EVA are near useless. As experienced players we glance at a ship's faction, rarity skills and pretty much nothing else. >>>>Don't believe me? Example: Sakura Empire DD in event? She's a Torpedo queen, and maybe gun damage (see step 3). KMS BB, she's either going to be a goddess or an already power creeped ship, and so on. 7) OXY torp, Fire-Control Radar, White shell, Steam Catapult, gold hydraulic steering, etc. are pretty much standard, unless an event introduces something so game changing you can get away with using the standard loadout
The only chinese ships I used were ning, ping, and yat sen to grind out Harbin, the others are so squishy that they drop like flies. I like your tier list though, they make more sense (and not just because I'm biased towards my favorite carnivore).
Jimmy can't you have a github tierlist page as well? Maybe you have young/studying web developers on your discord community Your tierlist videos get buried as more and more content you produce, it is hard to search I want to use your tierlists, but ECTL is far more convenient with gear recommendations as well
I used that Tierlist quite a bit. but as i played more and understood more of the game, it became more and more obvius to me that much of ther tiering is done very arbetrarily. so i stoped looking at it.
The fact that ECTL doesn't recommend the rainbow oxy torp auxiliary on any DD in the game, (Not even Shimakaze!) is all the proof you need, that they have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to DD's.
They actually address this directly in the FAQ. "The gear recommendations are meant to be as generally helpful and plug-&-play as possible, which is why only ships with enough survivability and which benefit significantly from the extra stats are shown with offensive auxes (e.g. Mainz with FuMo). Given the squishiness of destroyers, they usually benefit the most from the extra bulk gained from toolboxes, though you're free to use them at your own judgement if your DDs aren't dying." It's still misleading to not list them even as a lower option, but the reasoning for not preferring them is sound. ECTL isn't designed to judge ships in the context of being perfectly geared with a fleet perfectly optimized for them to output the most DPS, but by average out-of-the-box usability in the role for which they are suited. This is why hardcore minmaxers frequently disagree with the list. It's simply not made for them.
@@7Seven-Four4 Hmm, while I'm not sure wanting a balance between damage and survivability quite counts as "hardcore min-maxing" and the "squishiness" of DD's in general is a bit overstated in some parts of the AL community. I do appreciate knowing that there is some reasoning behind the oxy torp exclusion. Thanks for pointing that out.
I don’t think that Laffey being tier ex necessarily implies that her damage is tier zero level, I think it just means she’s just a tier ex level tank. I guess that does mean that ectl has a tank bias when it comes to destroyers though.
recent subscriber and while i know these are mostly jokey videos i cant thank ya enough as someone playing this godforsaken game for 4 years now and still cant keep up with what ships i should be using for worlds 13+ or OPSI
I know many who would disagree. They are far from civil or reasonable if you happen to get on their bad side (being a manual player did that instantly). Even this channel has mentioned how poorly they take criticism. The only thing they have over me is their ego. I have just as much experience. @Makino1260
mm laffey is resistant, but not super strong, kitakaze isnt that good tbh, main problem with community tier list is actually the gear choices, some dont make sense especially in cv section
Stop glazing on Shimakaze bro......its not that serious🙏💀 If you want a destroyer for TRP, go for Ayanami or other Japanese DDs. If you want a DD for FP and EVA, go for Laffey II or Felix. And if you want an overall balanced DD, go for some french or british DD, i dont like the way youre presenting your content 🎉🎉🎉
![[Azur Lane] Updated Destroyer Tier List + Some ECTL Criticisms](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
