As a Swiss that mainly grew up with Märklin and got a Hornby starter set just two years ago on a school trip, I'll pick Hornby. They have some very affordable models like the Railroad range that I absolutely love. I find British locomotives so fascinating, mainly because of the different liveries, colours and the individual companies before becoming BR. Bachmann is just too expensive for my tight wallet, but they do make some amazing models. Interesting comparison as always, Sam 👍 ;) Also I decided to join your channel Membership to support your great work
Very interesting - so Hornby looked good compared with Marklin?! I'm surprised and glad to hear it! Yeah, can't condone some of Bachmann's prices :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I found your channel recently and I truly admire your effort in making these videos :) I'm also a model-railroader and I find all these British locos so different from our continental European ones! Greetings from Poland :)
As a beginner model-er, this will definitely help out as I JUST began to think to make of an railway. Definitely based around the time where steam engines were waay more common than diesels, around when they just began.
Really excellent review. Well researched and very thorough. Pointed out many things I was totally unaware of and will be very helpful in making future purchases. The manufacturers could watch and learn a lot her - and I hope they do! Thanks a lot for sharing.
Also at least Hornby understands their audience by Doing a Railroad range and premium one so customers can experience a good range of products without paying a fortune 🙂🙂
Yeah, I agree with the Railroad range in principle.... and I don't even mind that they're often based on really old models! But their intention to attract beginners or younger modellers fails if they're too expensive... which now they're starting to be :/ Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great site Sam, I'm 77 & used to have model trains years ago. So what I wold like to ask you is for complete run down on the best loco for each class related to my time train spotting days at Bournemouth in I think it was 1960 I think ?? & I decided to change to aviation (where I have been lucky to work within most of my career) A GREAT site Sam & only recently found it.
An old comment, but I'll add that I'd also buy Hornby: simply because it's English. I'm not nationalistic, but do believe in encouraging local quality manufacturers... ... also I started with Hornby when I was very young in the 1970s and enjoyed them very much.
Sam, you really are the Best thing that's happened in our Hobby for years, your Reviews are second to none, giving so much useful information to help people with future purchases, which at the prices of items these days, is becoming so important. You are unbiased in your views, and I, as one of your thousands of followers, are extremely grateful, for your invaluable help...Keep up the Great work...Bob
@@Mewtwo557 you can have an 0-6-0 Tank Engine... Actually most tank engines were 0-6-0... Most 0-4-0's had a saddle tank or pannier tank design due to the short nature of the locomotive
Cheers Charlie! I'd like to do that too, but I don't own anywhere near as many diesels as I do steam; it probably wouldn't be fair of me to do that until I've sampled a few more! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This is spot on consumer information, and proof that both companies can produce good products when challenged. Watching and reading reviews of the Bachmann and Heljian (providing you get a later example) narrow gauge engines are good examples of two companies working out of their normal comfort zone. From what I've seen you seem to get very well engineered and well thought out tiny models. Considering how much of a slating Heljian get for build quality it is proof that when they do it right they really do it right.
Many thanks Les - they certainly can! The narrowgauge engines do look fascinating - I've always wanted to try them, very interesting that Heljan seem to get them right too! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
haha yeah it would be very interesting! Though they'd never need to do that - they both have the ability to create superb models without the other's input - it's just persuading them to actually do it! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Personally I prefer Hornby over Bachmann as you can easily replace loco parts for a bargain and The prices of their products are considerably cheaper especially with their mechanism Thanks for this Sam I have been waiting for this 🙂🙂
Have you tried replacing parts on a new Hornby loco? You cannot get the parts, like West Country valve gear, Fowler Tank pickups. It is getting worse. Ok, Bachmann spares might be expensive but at least you can get them.
I don't have a model railway, I'm more into the prototypes. What I like about this channel is how clearly you speak. It seems quite rare to encounter a RU-vidr who knows how a sentence is going to finish from the start. No 'I'm' or starting each new thought with 'so...'.
Seeing the hornby 08 reminded me, for the love of all things model railways you have to try a hornby 08, they are just amazing! Would love to see a review of that!
How the manufacturers can work together to make an ideal model train: 1) Get Heljan to pick an interesting prototype. 2) Get Hornby to make the chassis. 3) Get Accurascale to make a detailed body. 4) Get Bachmann to apply the decoration and finish. 5) Get Oxford to set the price of the completed model. 6) Get Dapol to make an O gauge version!
Wonderful video Sam! I wonder if you could do something crazy and buy like a Roco or Trix or perhaps a Piko locomotive. It would add some nice variation to your reviews, and I find them quite impressive in terms of performace and detail! Some are quite expensive though.
Another profesional informative video from young Sam, well done! The price comparison is quite fluid between the two but I think that part of that pricing structure includes shipping costs from Europe and China. Still, with regard to quality and value it's like anything else these days, you get what you pay for.
I'd like to add two points... 1.hornby try to be all things to all men. From cheapo train set locos right up to amazing top detailed stuff . And yes I agree it's not always made clear what market each loco is aimed at. 2. Bachmann diesels are great, but so many of their steam locos woddle down the track like an angry duck!
Yes two very good points - Bachmann's diesels are another kettle of fish altogether, if I had more diesels, I'd be in a position to do this video for diesels too! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@Baz Bazdad hi Baz. Yes I owned a gs425 for a total of 18 years. I say total because 5 years after I sold it , I bought it back. Wish I still had it . The perfect all rounder. Most modern bikes are either too big or too small.
Hi Sam. I have been a supporter of Hornby since i first started in model railways but i have bought a few Bachmann locos such as the Crab and the 43xx and i really like them. the detail is good and the running is great but deep down im still a hornby fan. Thanks Liam
Apparently Bachmann is completely different in the UK, here in the states the are the cheaper option, and aren't that reliable, or good pullers, or well detailed. Just kinda MEH here in the states, but the prices don't mirror that, a Spectrum DCC 4-8-4, be it a Daylight, or a N&W J-Class. Are around $300 plus if you can't find them on sale.
Very interesting I remember when Bachmann first came on the scene in this country Everyone raved about them and said ‘ why can’t Hornby be like this?’ It seems as though there’s a complete turn around I heard that both manufacturers are using Chinese factories at one point I believe the same factory This huge discrepancy in price and quality is unbelievable I’m very disappointed to be honest How are most people going to know what they’re getting? Keep making these videos they’re really good 👍😊
Yeah, it is very confusing! Bachmann have tried to explain their pricing by blaming it on changes in China: worker's wage increases, difficulty in finding labour, exchange rates and a decline in demand for model railway merchandise. These explanations *would* hold up if Bachmann were manufactured in China and all other manufacturers were elsewhere. But as other manufactures *in exactly the same boat* have been seen to do much better (not just in terms of price, but also quality), this explanation is inadequate to my mind! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains From what I can see Hornby have worked really hard to become a modern company for this day and age Competitive and good quality Maybe Bachmann uk could learn something here and restore their reputation and boost sales😊
Based on the Thomas range... I’ve noticed that Bachmann is more accurate than powerful such as with the Gordon model. The Gordon of Bachmann’s detail is superb, as compared to the Hornby model which is oversized and with a lot of the proportions wrong. However due to the larger tender, the Hornby Gordon is able to house the motor in its tender and that gives it more power and more tractive force with less effort. The way I understand it with my minimal knowledge of physics is that with the Bachmann model, the engine has the motor and the pulling power is all at the front, meaning the load at the back is heavier. With the Hornby model the tender pushes the locomotive instead of the loco pulling it. So the weight at the back is decreased while the weight at the front is increased. This is better because it is easier to push something rather than to pull it. So the Hornby models are stronger. Also I think the Bachmann model has a tiny motor crammed into the engine which is less powerful than the bigger Hornby motor in the big tender. So if you’re looking for durability and power, then the Hornby models are the ones for you. If you’re more of a serious collector or somebody who wants accuracy over power such as a filmmaker or someone, then the Bachmann models are the ones for you. These are just my thoughts.
The way I see it: Hornby- Better with steam locomotives Bachmann - Kings of the diesel, electric and DMU segments EMU's - No way to tell However, the lack of spare valve gear for certain Hornby locos like the rebuilt Merchant Navy is a massive turnoff.
Bachmann's were certainly more accurate, but they were much poorer by design (mechanism!!). Some of Hornby's did suffer mazak rot (Bill and ben were big ones), but at least this wasn't by design! Bachmann's have the motor failures *because* the motors can't handle all that friction from the complicated eye mechanisms, crazy number of gears, and lack of bearings in the wheelset! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have no way of knowing that unfortunately, and it's more complicated than that - it depends on production capacity, price, who's stocking them etc... hard to draw a conclusion from! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Expert commentary here, as always humbly but authoritatively presented. I found this most entertaining, but how are you faring with your Hattons Class 66? Is this still top of the tree, the cat's whiskers etc?
Thanks so much John, that's very kind of you! I don't have the Hatton's 66 sadly - the one I reviewed was only leant to me as a sample! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I don't have a OO layout but I would love to get the J36 and renumber it 65288 which was one of the last 2 in service. Dunfermline High School Railway Society repainted it for a railtour before it was withdrawn. I helped with the work.
I really like Bachmanns J72 since it’s the only Bachmann engine I own at the moment but I still massively love Hornby as my Dad and Late Grandfather had some
Excellent film. One area Hornby win hands down is the aesthetics of their packaging. Superb photography, really makes the box look special. Bachmann's window boxes are anonymous, and useless for being able to see what is inside.
Some of the prices you quoted were different to those shown on the screen, I noted. Maybe there have been updates since? If I had to choose between the two, I think Hornby would get the nod really. Better mechanisms including far greater use of 5 pole motors swings it for me. Oh, and price is a significant factor, especially these days when people's livelihoods are in the balance due to Covid-19.
Yeah, one of Bachmann's was higher than I quoted; I quoted a previous price tag, which has now been increased according to their website... we have seen big increases in price over recent years! I'd agree - can't say enough about good mechanisms! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
So Sam, I am right now a little bit down on Hornby because of my S15. I figured that I would give them another chance. What engine would you recommend to put Hornby in the best possible light for me. (Keep in mind that the layout I run on has a 4% grade on it, so it needs to be able to pull. A lot. Traction Tyres are ok. ) I was thinking something like a B12 but I was wondering if you had any suggestions. Also, to keep on this comparison series, maybe you could do a comparison between Hornby, Oxford, and Bachmann where you build a train from only their products in a budget and see how they compare.
Sorry about that mate :( Sure, the B12 is an excellent call - so is the J15 and J36, to name a recent few! Yeah it'd be cool to do more comparisons, cheers mate! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam. Brilliant summary of Bachmann vs Hornby. Why on earth don't these manufacturers listen to (professional?) YT reviewers? You have to admire Bachmann's attention to build quality, but conversely Hornby's attention to the mechanism. I'm sure they both would claim it's down to money, but I'm also sure that they would attract more sales if only they would listen! I would love you to throw Dapol (and Helijan?) into the mix!
Thanks very much Paul! They don't have to listen to us, because I for one could be wrong. If we are wrong, it'd be nice for them to explain how so, and also how they justify their actually very different approaches! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Hi Sam. Yes, they don't have to listen to what you say, yet woe betide those who won't listen, even if they don't agree. You have been reviewing models since the year dot and have earned the right to be listened to. I doubt that there are a lot of differences between your opinions and those other esteemed reviewers. It's time for the manufacturers to wake up and smell the coffee!
It may be comparing apples and oranges, British versus American markets. But here in the U.S. Bachmann list prices are notorious. The lists are usually _way_ higher than street prices, and way higher than either their quality, or the relationship to other vendors would justify.
Yeah you are right - the list prices are much higher than what you'd pay in the shops, but they're still more expensive than Hornby in most cases! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains theoretically, could you take the mechanism of the Hornby loco and put it into the Bachmann body so you have a frankentrain with high detail, high performance?
The Bachman Thomas & Friends range of locomotives and rolling stock is generally cheaper than Hornby’s. This is even with designing original molding for the line, whereas Hornby just reused existing molds and slapped the faces on. That was before the Hornby Thomas and Friends range was discontinued. The Hornby Thomas cost double the price of its Bachman counterpart. And there are characters that Bachman made that Hornby didn’t get the chance to release before discontinuing their Thomas and Friends line.
I don't think Bachmann were cheaper than Hornby's - pretty sure Hornby's RRP for Thomas was never as high as $99.99, much less double! You're right about Bachmann's effort though - theirs were always much more accurate! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
There is a series of videos that compares the Bachman Thomas and Friends range to Hornby’s directly by the individual character (I.E. comparing Hornby’s Thomas model to Bachman’s). They did Thomas twice due to emails like some Hornby Thomas models not having traction tires like the model used in the first Hornby Thomas vs Bachman Thomas video.
As an american, im not sure why but european trains just dont seem to be as advanced at this scale as they are in the states. The fact that new locomotives are shipping with open frame motors is just wild to me
Hi Sam. loving your work. Just an observation - Whenever I've heard you say that a certain loco is a bit noisy, when running, it's usually a Bachmann. keep up the great work.
I had my first loco at 7 now 35 :-( and my intercity 225 runs like a dream with the original ringfield and thanks to your servicing videos just as good and quiet as new out the box so always a hornby fan and whenever i search for a loco always look at hornby products first something just seems that bit extra nothing against the other brands but they always feel a bit more especially with the name and legacy also having relatives who lived in hornbys home helps too 😂😂
I’d say both companies shine in different areas. While Bachman generally goes for looks/ model accuracy rather than the mechanism, Hornby usually goes more vice versa
As an Australian, like the American below, I also prefer Hornby, but that may be related to how I've had this manufacturer's products since I was about 11. You packed a huge amount of information into the video.
Right, but you've made a few videos on the Hornby channel. This would suggest that this study is, even if not deliberate, slightly biased. An example is that you could have used the same loco classes when you did price comparisons.
No, I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion. Given the fact that my audience is an order of magnitude larger than Hornby's, I was doing them a favour, and not vice versa as you suggest, by producing content for their channel. Regardless, I was very critical of both Hornby and Bachmann in this video, so the word you're looking for is *balanced* not biased. To have used the same classes for price comparison would not have been fair, as neither manufacturer has their own modern example of the same class, except the 08, which I did show. In cases where both manufacturers produce the same model, one is always much older than the other (Hornby vs Bachmann A4, Jinty, Patriot, 4F etc) So how would using the same classes have been more fair? Make sure the evidence supports your narrative my friend!! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Over the last 10 years or so I’ve bought a number of locos’ I’ve never run any of them, as I don’t have a layout! Having watched your video if I ever do I’m expecting quite a lot of unreliability!
Hi Sam another really good video please do a diesel and electric comparison. I liked what you said because I have been thinking about the same thing. But I am a diesel fan and please do a comparison.
Very informative; really enjoyed this. I think doing a Diesel Hornby vs Bachmann video would be a splendid idea especially when Bachmann has certainly tackled Diesels Hornby hasn't such as the Peaks. I actually am genuinely intrigued with the difference between the 08's too. I know Hornby's Class 08 did have some rather nice but unexpected surprises such as opening doors. No doubt when it comes to choosing between both ranges one may just offer a class of loco that the other doesn't or they simply have a better version.
Thanks for this video, when im older i wanna start an english model railway but the Class V2 is only Bachmann and the West Country is only hornby Edit: i have the mallard and flying scotsman that i got ages ago but they both have small issues, and the mallard doesnt run properly anymore :/ only fully functioning train i have is an SDJR Tank engine no. 24
Hornby's "design clever" was a way to cheapen production costs. It was carried out during previous management who had lost their way. Once the management changed, the quality of their products also improved.
Yes you're right Don - except it was only cheaper for Hornby... the prices seemed consistent with the rest of their range! Glad to hear they've found they're way again now though! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thanks for sharing Chris - the Bachmann diesels are a different matter all together - the ones I've tried have been absolutely amazing! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hello SAM! Firstly ...great job and thank you for your work for the hobby. Secondly, I would consider interesting mentioning the wheels materials (hornby of late are plastic) as well as the doc interface. Finally, if I may add, you should certainly continue with this series yet, also, I think you ought to visit other brands such as heljan, hattons... Best wishes, D.
Great video. One gripe I have about Bachmann is that their interior lights (cab lights, EMU and railcar interior lights) are always light orange LED's and I've had to go around and substitute the ones on my Bachmann stuff with warm white LED's instead.
Also Sam I heard about those people trying to attack you on Twitter regarding el cheapo. I absolutely love the series and I hope it is here to stay! Never mind those people who claim that there was some ‘stereotyping.’ If you ask me they’re the ones doing the stereotyping. Absurd.
Thanks Harry! Please don't worry about it, and thanks so much for the support! I've explained the "joke", and they're not getting it. Time to approach this properly! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great video as always and a interesting one at that.I think id rather have an engine that worked better and lasted longer,than one that looked better and had more detail.I dont have any Bachmann engines mine are all Hornby and one Oxford Rail Janus Shunter that was bought in a Hattons bundle with three wagons.
In N gauge ive noticed its dapol with the better models and graham farish (bachmann) with the better mechanisms.... Back in the 00 days for me, i noticed bachmann used to look better, hornby though were the workhorses, the bachmanns spent most of their time in the sidings looking pretty, while the hornbys did all the running.... the coaches though, they were fine either way
Sam I really enjoy your videos , though to be fair I’ve had Hornby, Bachmann and the like. I now collect almost completely Märklin,Roco and Fleishmann I just feel the German and Austrian brands have better production outcomes.
Fair comparison, I agree. In a nutshell : -Bachmann : drivetrain mediocre to fair, good level of details, constant quality, excessive price. -Hornby : very good to excellent drivetrain, usually good to excellent level of details, but quality is random, with some lemons and motors issues. Price justified to good. When the Standard 2MT by Hornby will be sold, I invite you to make a comparison with Bachmann's Ivatt 2MT tender engine, it is roughly the same model (the BR standard is an improvement of the Ivatt). I bit my fingers when I saw that the Hornby model will have a die-cast body for GBP 162, retailer's price (RRP GBP 180)... I'm going to buy one anyway ! I'm in for a diesel/electric comparison, it will be very interesting.
