To put this into perspective: It is heavily implied that Withers' true identity is Jergal, the original god of death, strife, and killing. Or rather, god of 'the end'. He was the one who elevated the Dead Three to godhood in the first place and later serve as the scribe for any deity who becomes the god of the dead. Above all, Jergal believes that everything has beginning and the end according to the fate. As a lawful neutral god, Jergal can and will undermine his 'boss' if he thinks they are messing with the divine laws of the universe. Now, Durge is a Bhaalspawn. Not only they'd die if Bhaal takes their divine heritage, he'd claim their soul as well no matter how they die so there is a reason why he's totally okay with Bhaalspawns offing each other. However, Durge, depend on your choice, can do the impossible by defy their murderous nature and Bhaal himself. Withers/Jergal, who believes in fatalism above all, witnesses the miracle. So he too does the impossible by not only bring Durge back from the dead with no string attratched, but also casually and effortlessly take Durge's soul from Bhaal to return to the body. So basically, a god went out of his way to bend the rules of the life and death because he thinks you're too awesome to die.
He also gave sweet discounts on respecs and resurrections. I love how they have context to comfortable game conditions. “Oh, a fallen son of Bhaal? I think I can help.”
Jergal doesn't just resurrect Durge, he gives him immortality. "Death will not claim thee whilst I endure" is a very cut-and-dry statement... "I, too, still hold some power, and I invest a portion of it in thee" also seems to imply he outright gave Durge some amount of divinity.
@@Magiwarriorx I think that is because he doesn’t believe in Championship. Plus it would be an insult to you, who defied Bhaal as flesh made from Bhaal, to make you some divine’s champion once again
Tav, when I revived you I also made your entire party lighter by collecting my fee beforehand. Times are tough and who was gonna stop me? You were dead.
It’s not even just a victory over evil nature, but gaining full and true freedom, Baal now does not rule over you, just like if a person were to abruptly get rid of schizophrenia or another mental problem, or resurrect.
heroes can be born good and great, but true gods and legends born filthy and low, but overcome their weaknesses and strive for greatness that never fades in history, legend and myth
It's because Paarthurnax keeps fighting his inborn nature that he's such an excellent character. It's also why I will never side with Esbern and Delphine and kill him. My major complaint with Skyrim is the members of the Blades faction, and the Blades in general. They were the Emperor's protectors, his agents in Tamriel. But apparently they were dragonslayers in the past? Where the hell did that come from!? Skyrim single-handedly ruined the Blades for me, and having such bland characters like Esbern and Delphine certainly didn't help things!
I refused Bhaal at every turn. When he kills me, I recalled what happened with Vlaakith, and how I met my first gameover. Waiting for the message. Untill I heard "but your journey isn't over".
i genuinely did expect it to just be a game over and worrying i somehow messed up and am effectively now railroaded into a bad ending MY BOY CAME UP CLUTCH
@@VDA19 Like all great D&D campaigns, the DM's intended story was thrown aside in favor of what the party wants. In Early Access, this tone was way stronger and it was clear that Tav and Durge were the same person. The grimdark was off-putting and players responded more to the Mind Flayer thing than the Dead Three thing. Acts 2 and 3 were adjusted to suit this, and it's why Avernus and the Upper City were cut. Ironically, without the Upper City, which contained the rest of Karlach's quest, she's the most "true" character to the original intent, since she's clearly best girl, yet has no way to survive besides literal Hell.
Huh? There was no Dark Urge whatsoever in the Early Access I played. The Dream Guardian at some point implied/encouraged you to take over the world but every companion had a Dream Guardian so it wasn't a Dark Urge thing.@@AmyNumberSeven
I agree. I really think Dark Urge is the canonical origin character. Durge's story is much more connected to the main story than any other's and has the most satisfying thought out endings. I regret not playing Durge first.
This really hit me because obviously i was questioning who and what precisely Withers was, then he just breaks divine laws and basically admits you were traveling with actual Jergal.
Its the most chaotic evil someone can possibly be. Rejecting godlike power to achieve whatever they want and only have to do what they want to to do anyway and accepting death merely because you feel the atrocities you commit aren't truly your own evil if you are part Bhaal. Unhinged beyond measure, so chaotic that they disrupt their own plans. Honestly, that might be make for a decent type of god on its own.
It's crazy that Jergal used to reign over everything that the Dead Three now claim ruling over. The contrast between Jergal and Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul couldn't be more extreme.
He used to be an evil dickhead that mortals feared and hated, but since he has gone into semi-retirement and is content with just being the god of Fate he has mellowed out considerably. He is perfectly content to serve the new god of death and it seems he has gotten really fed up with how his "sons" are running things into the ground.
Jergal was also completely chill with Myrkul's rule over the dead. While he is LN right now, I think a lot of people forget that he approved of the Dead Three. To be fair to him and the Three, 5e seriously screwed over Bane and Myrkul, given that Bane had a huge loss of power in 5e and Myrkul was forcibly reelevated to a shadow of his former power despite canonically not wanting his godhood back in prior editions.
@@LordMortanius >Jergal was also completely chill with Myrkul's rule over the dead. Every ounce of lore says Jergal was tired of the job. Had a snail slithered up and tried to depose him he'd have handed over his portfolios to the snail. He didn't approve of the Dead Three. They were just the first chance he had to break free of his endless responsibilities, and so he took it.
@@alexjgilpin Jergal actively aided them. An entire crystal sphere full of possible replacements, and he approved of three most monstrous and powerful epic adventurers and tested their worthiness. People just like to overlook that he was once Lawful Evil and was still using undead as servants well into the 14th century DR. Hell, even the Crystal Spire is entirely Kelemvor's work. Myrkul didn't change the decor of Bone Castle when he ascended; he just moved in when Jergal took up the job of Scribe of the Damned. Jergal is a retired tyrant and if Bane and Myrkul hadn't gone after the Tablets of Fate, he'd still be pretty chill with them. In lore, he only had a problem with Cyric.
In Faerun, the portfolios you control are *part* of you. So, the Jergal of now is likely quite different than the Jergal of then. Quite metaphysically.
I cried like a child when I got this cutscene. Withers was my fav NPC through the entire game and then he swoops in and redeems my sorry ass. I loved it!
Jergal has been one of my favorite gods since I got into D&D. I'm so happy I chose Dark Urge for my first playthrough, this scene was just perfect. Withers 🖤
I love how this displays the comparative power of gods whose followership is alive and well versus those who have fallen to myth and mystery. It's something very overlooked in the lore of how gods actually work in the canon of DnD.
When Withers resurrected Durge and seeing one of the possible dialogue options is saying that Durge deserves to die for all the crimes they had done. I genuinely teared up.
From everything I've learned about my own play through and the variations with the dark urge I've came to the same conclusion also the fact he is the only "origin" character you can customize
It 100% is, they simply split the OC characters and Durge into seperate ones for the sake of people not having to always deal with Durges specific stuff.
@@drbeard4505 He was Myrkul's seneschal for a thousand years with no complaint. Jergal had no issue with the Dark Three running their domains, the only deity he actively hated and attempted to screw over was Cyric. If Myrkul hadn't tried to steal the Tablets of Fate alongside Bane, Jergal would still be his loyal minister.
The story of Baldur's Gate is written in the blood of Bhaal and the crisis caused by his progeny, the Bhaalspawn. This story of thr Dark Urge, and its many conclusions are fitting for this game.
This was the most amazing and rewarding scene for me in my entire first playthrough. I know Larian doesn't recommend going Dark Urge for your first time playing but FUCK THAT, i might just had the best first time playing ever thanks to me not listening to the advice of people who clearly know better lmao.
Agreed, Dark Urge was so fun, I love how your past self was the mastermind of the whole Absolutionist plot, and even the Netherbrain admits you would have succeeded if not for Orin. Gives me Darth Revan vibes, though I never actually played Knights of the Old Republic. Resisting it really wasn't an issue most of the time, the only time it does matter you should have enough inspiration points stored up to succeed the dice roll.
Dark Urge is literally the canon main character of the game, he is the one responsible for all the events happening. He is very similar to Revan in that regard. It almost makes me wonder why is he not just the default choice?
@@thefraser5131 Well he is different from Revan in that, Revan was never really evil he just had an ends justify the means way of thinking (and maybe corrupted slightly by the dark side energy of the Star Forge) when it came to things like Malachor V. He became the villain to prepare the republic or his empire that might conquer it for the return of the True sith. When he gets his memory back in kotor 2, Revan vanishes alone into deep space and one of the endings it's implied the Exile follows him to wherever he is. Other than that though he is literally Revan.
@@CTC77 To me Tav and Urge are really just two sides of the same coin. Urge is just a "What if Tav was a Bhaalspawn" Scenario. Actually when playing as Tav, you can find Urge's dead body (Titled "Fallen Bhaalspawn, and looks identical to the default Dark Urge Character) in Orin's bedroom in the Temple of Bhaal, sacrifed to Bhaal in a similar fashion Urge sacrifices Alfira. So i guess, everything that keeps Urge from dying is the plot armor of being the main chracter because if he isn't, he'll die by Orin's hand.
Credits to the voice actor of Sceleritas Fel, Brian Bowles. That mix of fear and utmost admiration in his voice when you win the fight is astonishing. Impeccable voice acting.
He's the narrator from Larian's last game, Divinity Original Sin 2. He's great in it. I liked him even more than bg3's narrator ( who plays a withers-like character in it, Malady )
Evil Dobby lol. When I first fought Orin I got my ass kicked in the first two rounds, and seeing how genuinely upset our little butler was at my death and how he rallied the others into killing Orin just made me go “damn, he may be evil but he really is loyal”
@cyberdoge1857 I'm doing a solo tactician murder hobo durge run, because...if I'm gonna solo, might as well do the full evil murder hobo thing. Definitely gonna try redemption arc durge though!!
I cried during that scene. After learning we die despite our every effort to not succumb to the Dark Urge, it hit really hard that the only fate that awaited us despite our struggle was death. I thought it was Game Over. But then, "Withers" shows up and it turns out they were watching us - and over us - all the time. Your journey finally feels worthwhile as they bring you back to life, showing admiration for your resilience and strength of will. It's a beautiful thing to strive to be yourself, to do right by others even when everything and everyone around you strives to undermine your faith in being - or becoming - someone better despite the insurmountable odds stacked against you.
I can’t remember if there is, but if there’s a dialogue option in that conversation that says “A soul’s worth is measured by their deeds,” then this whole story just comes full circle in the most beautiful way. You defied a god and resisted your Dark Urge at every turn, and as a result, your soul, at least according to Withers/Jergel, is of the highest worth, and deserves to be maintained even after a God’s ultimatum
I understand it's pretty clear that Withers is Jergal. But to those that may think him a mere undead, a lich, or a follower of Jergal: He says Tav was fated to wander the fugue plane, due to being godless. There is no way a lich could change this. Only a deity can.
most interesting was that there was a book in act 3 that actually described withers looks as the god of the dead. If you read that book with some reflection you notice sooner who it is that traves with thee. fucking awesome
You can notice that much earlier, Withers shows up in the camp shortly after you have explored the crypt barely 50 feet from where the Nautiloid crashed that just so happens to be dedicated to Jergal. Or how in Act 2 when he talks with Anabelle he notes that he always was like this, never having become undead or such, he was always something between life and death.
This whole scene was such a rollercoaster of emotions. I was expecting a game over screen like what happens when Vlaakith wishes you to die but no. Larian surprised me with this amazing outcome to the Dark Urge story. Im so glad i chose it as my first playthrough
Me playing Dark Urge: "Oh I get it, I'm Revan again." Which is funny snice Revan was invented by Bioware who made the BG1-2 and this a sequel too, and we know how much Larain loves old Bioware. So making a the Dark Urge take notes from both the previous BG protagonist and KOTOR is kind of great.
The second I laid eyes on this mf I was like: "Jergal. Bone Daddy himself". I've been playing since Early Access, and I have had a LONG time to wait to finally have it confirmed. Thank you, Larian. And Thank you Bone Daddy.
I made my Guardian to look like my Chaotic Neutral BG1/BG2 character portrait, for the Dark Urge. It felt incredibly fitting for a Dark Urge to subconciously picture someone who went through similar struggles as them with overcoming their dark nature, as a "Guardian" figure. And also the resemblance to my BG1 portrait was uncanny. Almost felt like a cameo of some sorts.
Now I'm actually tempted to choose the Dark Urge origin, just to get this cool storyline. It also feels like a 'canonical' backstory for your character that the writers have slipped in.
I like that this is a nod to the first two games of the series, makes me quite happy. And i wish we got the chance to meet other Bhaalspawn from the first games.
@@HamTheBacon nope all the bhaalspawns were killed after gorion's ward became arch duke a d battled another bhaalspawn. Druge was created after that and saverok reverted back recently.
Earlier in the game when I first met Withers I made a joke that "Wither's is probably Jergal and is like a huge pivotal part of the story"..... Whelp I literally screamed when i saw this scene
@@cyberdoge1857 lol knowing mystra and shar the gods are greedy in baldurs gate my guess is withers is actually the god of scribe...... hmmmm cause his temple ruin is inside the first time we explore let him awaken
I was doing a evil playthrough as a Dark Urge, refused all the 'evil' choices enforced by my bhaal's will. And after refusing to become a Bhaal's chosen and killed by him, and resurrected by the Withers, I had a good chuckle when I realized I had the option to "Relish." I'm really glad that Larian ensured there's an option for a Dark Urge who rejects Bhaal of because he cherish his own free will above all other, yet remains evil and not just for the "Goody Two Shoes" Dark Urge like the Ward from the previous games, or a Dark Urge who's merely another mindless slave of Bhaal, like everyone else.
I still feel like an idiot for misunderstanding that dialogue option. (I thought owning whatever mistakes you make in your new life is a good thing. And yeah, it is, actually. I just thought "sins" referred to literally anything that could be considered a sin. Idk, tax evasion maybe. So I didn't realize it was a "finally I can murder people without my dad telling me to do it" option and I felt dumb about it when my character went all evil lmao)
Imagine if mid epic speech, as Withers is about to bring us back, Shadowheart just tosses a casual Scroll of Revivify at us and a speechless Withers gives her the stink eye as she shoulders us and gives him a sly thumbs up and a "Ya done mate? Off we go"
the game is so well done, that they made a character designed to have dark urges, and knew people will try to redeem him! its a small thing but it matters!
So in a way you become the champion of Jergal here? The child of none in reference to the fact that Jergal’s no longer a god-not really anyway. He also says that he’ll be your advocate in life and in death, not allowing you to die godless.
I just now realized that when Baal says "I expected the other" means he wasn't watching their duel like Orin said. He didn't give a single shit about either of us.
Imagine sitting at your office, and three dudes just appear out of nowhere. You don't know how they got there, or how they got past security; one of them seems very smug about himself...one looks a bit pale & sick...and the last one has red stains on his shirt and can't seem to stop giggling under his breathe. They say that they want your job, and at first you think that it's ridiculous. But then you stop and think about it...the work has gotten stale; and you've been putting in a LOT of overtime. These blokes might help to lessen the workload. You tell these weirdos that they can't have your job; but maybe you can take them on as interns. You talk it over during a lunchbreak, where you all go bowling (this is canon). During this, the three strangers argue over who gets what kind of job they get to do. Long story short, Bane gets a cushy spot in upper management...Myrkul lands a position in human resources...and Bhaal gets the unenviable position as head of downsizing (though he seems to enjoy it). ...then the idiots decide it might be a great idea to steal company secrets; putting the whole business in jeopardy.
@@garycannon4644 They essentially stole the “Tablet of Fate” from Io…the Creator of all things…and got all the deities kicked out (except for Helm). They had to then walk the earth among the mortals…and things got PRETTY dicey.
Jergal actively aided in their ascension. I know this gets overlooked, but the dagger that put down Borem was guided to Bane's hands by Jergal, and Jergal had no issue with Myrkul's rule. Jergal gets whitewashed fairly often.
"Death will not claim thee whilst I endure." Now usually. Usually. i would assume im overthinking things and that they only meant that hes bringing the Durge back this one time, but given how. particular. gods can get about their wording, i feel like i am not above asking. Withers did you make the Dark Urge fucking immortal. (i do not truly believe this but it could be a fun way to look at it.
Yaknow... a nice fanfic idea for this ending would be your character, maybe through a VERY high willpower check or something, actually resisting Bhaal's withdrawal of your powers and claiming the slayer form for your own, actually spitting in the god of murder's face by forcibly claiming your "inheritance" and twisting it into something truly unique to yourself. Could even have the character give some form of defiant statement to top it off, though i'd leave such an idea to the people to decide.
Lorewise... You can't... You see? They don't have those titles of "god of murder" just for fashion, those tittles basically gives them rule over those concepts. To give you more retrospective with an example: if the goddess of nature decided to kill you, she will not just fight you, everything the entire nature will attack you because that's her domain.
@@Voldrim359 I did say a fanfic idea, did I not? I'd think of it as exploring the power that some gods take for granted; the power of the soul. Of course, I understand that such a thing is not an easy idea to pull off, not without someone claiming it's too far-fetched much like what your comment doth imply friend. the ever-present struggle between the physical being versus one that clearly stands much above is a topic that I've always found rather interesting. the idea of resisting a clearly evil god? That topic may have been explored a few times, but one can always make a new twist.
@@ThePokeShapeshifter Late reply but lore wise slayer form can only be achieved via - being a bhaalspawn or actively committing so much murder that bhaal himself grants u his divine essence. There is no such thing as willpower in this sense because slayer form is a blessing from a God
Jergal after giving his domain over to the dead 3 Get reprimanded by Kelmvor. Jergal works with/ under Kelmvor. So when Jergal says “I am not doing this willingly” he is being court ordered by Kelmvor.
I'm planning on making a short series about the dark urge. Especially we're going to the aftermath of what happened to... weather is of course mansion that he cannot bring her back from death and he has to deal with the consequence of it. The dark urge who felt sorry about doing what he did came to her body and took the bard's lute. As a way to keep the words of what she wanted to do alive and help people and as a way to punish himself for robbing the world of someone who was kind and innocent. And of course the goblin himself who did offer the cloak the cloak itself doubles as an echo to keep doing evil things. Essentially I'm playing with the idea of Alfira's lute being the good conscience and the Blood Red Cloak as the evil conscience. In the end of my comic and of course after the dark urge dies and is brought back by Withers, he still felt guilty about the wicked Deeds he had done and the biggest inspiration being The Bard who did Inspire him to become better. Withers did say that he cannot bring her back from death, but he can allow her to temporarily return only for the time. The dark urge meets with Alfira and he weeps that he is so sorry that he did what he did to her and that if there wasn't chance that things could be done over again he would do it in a heartbeat only to be interrupted with her giving him a hug
The dark urge completely confused about the fact that she is hugging him could not understand that she would be willing to forgive him for murdering her and violating her body. She would explain that despite what he had done he genuinely felt horrible about what happened and she was genuinely touched that you kept her memory and the song so that she could at least live on and the fact that her death, needless as it was did in fact save someone and more. And she was very glad that she at least was able to do that. Her time in the mortal world was about to be over, however the dark urge asked Alfira if she could play her magnum opus one last time before she goes, giving back her lute. Withers nodded and allowed her to stay a little bit longer so that the burden is finally released. She played her song one last time and her body when the song was about to be over becomes translucent alongside her lute, she returned back to the afterlife and knowing that the dark urge has been forgiven, he can finally forgive himself. He is now able to move on, and at least he managed to still have her in his heart. I know this is a little sappy. but sometimes it's nice to have a little bit of sappiness and hope After something really horrible has happened
I don’t know why, but when I got to this scene and my boy just died I thought that was it, waiting on the roll credits cuz my soul was claimed. Then Jergal’s divine ass is just,”nah, you ain’t dying yet”
Oh, I didn't know she can turn into the Slayer during boss fight - that's what I get for killing her in one turn! (we really need a higher difficulty!)
I think she can only do that if you resist killing Isobel in act 2. She had many rounds against me, but never turned, but I had slayer form and the dialogue in game made it seem like I was special for it
@Daemic9 For me she STARTED the fight in Slayer form, so you might be right here (I didn't kill Isobel). It does make sense, refusing to kill Isobel (and later, your lover) seems to have made Bhaal very angry and I guess Orin became the new favorite....
First play through I didn’t play dark urge so when I got to act 3 and faced Orin I thought (compared to the thorn fight in act 2) was very lack luster and anti climactic and way easy and she was the boss I was most excited for, have yet to make my way to gortash tho so hopefully it gets better
shiiiit, every BG3 Custom/Dark Urge, or the Origin characters and the 4 bonus recruitable characters were really fated to meet Jergal huh? :O one way or the other.. saved by Daddy Jergy
I'm glad I'm not the only person who saw the similarities. -Amnesiac PC with a very screwed up body -PC turns out to have done something unfathomably horrible -Nature vs Nurture themes -The best outcome is for the PC to die (or become mortal again) Durge does give me TNO vibes
That’s actually really cool that you get to fight the Slayer form and Orin uses it against you if you don’t take it (by killing Isobel which is what I did lol), no wonder the Orin fight was easy for me
Probably not the first player who figured out that Whithers is THE previous god of death and the one who made a "particular" deal with 3 chosen of Death. He just failed one mission and so had to go. IF i understand it right.
"Thou art now faithless - godless - and doomed to wander the Fugue Plane for eternity" wait, does that mean that, at long last, Wall of Faithless has been removed from the Forgotten Realms universe? I mean, wandering Fugue Plane for eternity is not exactly picnic, but it still beats fate of being turn into brick in wall that slowly erodes your consciousness.
