As a woofer, i disagree sir! We find your regular speaking voices too loud as it is - we do not want to be associated with extremely loud bass! We'd rather sniff your bottom :3 we know what you had for breakfast the past week...
@DJ WRAITH just get one comp sub and you'll be happy. its simple and cheap. Box specs are never perfect, most important thing you have to do is tune by ear. My first system was like 400 bucks installed, it lasted me like 8-9 years and it slammed until i fried the amp then the sub. Gonna rebuild the sub at some point hopefully.
Great video! The bottom line is, ( I don't care if your goal is SPL or sound quality ) every single install is unique. Therefore there are no magic tricks. You have to decide what your goal really is, and design and build the install based on all of your unique variables. Every single install is a series of compromises bar none.
Once or twice a year I find a channel that gives me the old youtube excitement I used to get finding all the awesome content when I was new to the platform. It's rare anymore but still very exciting to find an awesome channel. I'm so happy to find your channel. You've got great content and seemingly a ton of knowledge. Thank you for your videos and channel.
Adding more shit doesn't make it better a well designed system doesn't need all that crap NO resistors that's just a copout that you couldn't take the time to design test and tweak your crossover use an L pad if necessary but just keep your Db's very close & you probably won't need them LESS IS More
I think Bose owns the patent for 6th order bp boxes, that is why many companies call them something else. I don't know if the patent has expired, but Bose used to be aggressive about stopping non-licensed use of this enclosure type.
Waking up late on the first Saturday morning I've had off in a good long while, I find this video, buried deep within the typical tripe of RU-vid's "recommended" wall. Liked, subbed, and I'll be spending the rest of my morning pouring through your channel! Awesome stuff! So refreshing to see some real technical talk actually based in reality. :D
The best sounding band-pass I heard used a dayton dcs255 classic 10" really similar to a jbl gto 10". They are xmax limited so they struggle below 35 hz but they have some of the lowest group delay you can find in a band-pass without giving up efficiency. I ended up using it in a 6th order in my daily driver and sacrificing a tiny amount of sound quality for the ability to play some decaf when I feel like it. Another cool thing is they still play high enough that if you are on a tight budget you don't have to upgrade your mids and highs, the classic 10" can play mid-bass even in a band-pass.
My first bandpass box was a 2x12 with plexiglass front from best buy. Put 2x12" soney xplode subs and a 900 watt xplode mono block sub amp. It hit so hard that I couldn't hear my other speakers. So I added component speakers front and rear from crutchfield powered by a clarion 4 channel amp. By the time I was done, my truck was a small extended cab Toyota pickup, I couldn't see out of any of my mirrors. Lol sounded great though. Went to the drive-in and everyone hated me lol
Hey a bandpass series, awesome! I remember when I first started seeing the JL boxes at shops back in the day. Those were good sounding boxes! I picked up a box at a bazaar and put my Soundstream USA’s in it. That’s when I realized there’s more to it than meets the eye lol. Awesome video!
You just made the best video on 4th bandpass, not sure that is a huge complement or a slam on the complete lack of info! All SB aside you did good job! no great, no good. If you watch American Dad you will get that..
Bandpass have always been my favorite. I never knew how to design one correctly but when I found an installer/builder who did know what they were doing it always turned out great. Nice to see someone in the modern scene trying to eliminate misnomers about bandpass. Now if I could find someone to design me a bandpass for the 15" B2 X2SIX I just picked up that would be amazing!!!
Cool video! Gonna hit da "Like" and da "Sub" for sure. Do you know if there's any major difference between LSDCB 6th and the 7th edition? I have the 6th edition.
This is one of the best explanation on RU-vid IMO. Not only on this topic but generally on acoustic laws and rules in box building and designs. So right to the point with such a control to stay on the topic yet not to miss any critical point in explaining the reasons why. Great video. Its funny how some people talk about bandpass designs as a new fashion thing around the block. It is actually because of those cheap and many bad sounding bandpass boxes with plexiglass panels and bunch of blinking led lights. They are very attractive when you listen to them with your eyes and with LED technology these days those enclosures are coming back to the spotlight again. Bose made them popular with their Acoustimass series in late 80's and early 90's (dual reflex boxes) and they were a big commercial hit at the time. With those cubes the whole system sounded much more powerful then they looked. They had a jaw dropping effect on home listeners and since then satellite/subwoofer systems became very popular. They got a very high approval from female members of the household and we all know they have a great influence on the choices when bringing something in the house. I know all that as those Acoustimass were my first home system with the sub. And everyone who came to my home were very impressed. Until I bought a 15" Velodyne Digital series sub. Then I realised how Acoustimass box sharply drops in low frequency. So loudness cannot fix the lack of bandwidth when you can compare the systems side by side. If you dont hear certain frequencies you will never know they are there (in the source) until you hear them on the system they can reproduce them. And on that topic how some designers put the sub inverted so they can smell the burning coil on the driver during the SPL competition. I must admit Bose found a very elegant solution to protect those 2 small 5-1/4" drivers in their Acoustimass boxes. They put in line a light bulb with a specific resistance with each driver so when the driver receive more than rated power it would start glowing at that point turning that extra power into the light (glowing filament in incandescent bulb). And if you keep pushing you will burn the bulb instead of the driver. Very clever but scary when you dont know this and you see the glowing light coming out of the port when you overload the box. Thanks again for this great video. Instant subscriber.
i've already built the box and never knew all these crazy specifics! could you tell me the fc of my box? sealed section is 2 cu ft but i have 2 subs and my fs is 41 and my vas comes to 1.009 cu ft. it's a 2.65 to 1 ratio (before displacement) box (5.25 ported 2 cu ft sealed) tuned to 42 hz. thanks much in advance
That question is a little bit too big to give a quality answer in the RU-vid comments. But there is a more important question. How does it sound? Do it bump doe?
@@DIYAudioGuy man it's great. 2 taramps bass 8k at .5 each with 2 american bass hd 12s. to save space and apply more power i went slightly under the max per sub ported is 5.25, american bass says 2.5 to 3 cu ft per sub (i did not know it at the time, but i reached out to sonix enclosures as they have one but it was 2 cu ft per sub after displacement, i asked if they knew it was too small and actually they built that box built on customer input, requesting smaller box for higher power input so i could have actually went smaller) and with a basic understanding that "bigger sealed = more low end" i went 2 cu ft sealed. she plays cleanly from 23 hz (can play lower but the bass does not perculate as good.. if that makes sense lol) to about 55. shrinking the ported section of the box would make it more peaky though right? would shrinking the ported side 1 cu ft even add much power handling?
I remember hearing an Alumapro BP series 8" bandpass box back in the day that sounded like 2 12's. Was only like 1 cubic foot but that batboy dumped. I've been keeping an eye out for one ever since.
My JL Audio prefab band pass box from 1995 sounds amazing and is super loud. I wouldn’t have it any other way. The plexy glass doesn’t affect sound whatsoever
I have a probend competition bandpass with 2 12” kickers and a Rockford fosgate amp, the plexiglass is about 1/4” inch thick and nearly covers up the whole box, perfect enough for me and sounds amazing paired with my aftermarket speakers
I love the fact at 9 minutes and 25 seconds you mentioned the smell of coils. When you're smelling your coils that means that the show is about over. Time to choose push it and have to recone your s*** or turn it down and take your score.
Regardless of ratio or driver used for a 4th order bp, the vented side will always be smaller than the sealed side in proper design if looking for the best freq range for sq builds. If the driver is well suited for 4th order, dog ears can be avoided. If the center is @ 0db, then eq's the peaks down will flatten and maintain a more natural sound than trying to boost the lower output range. Cut is always better than boost.
The best bandpass box I've ever had is called toby speakers/box by mr toby, what a legend. With only one single 10" sheriff 200w speaker and a 160w amp sonds like 2 12" 2000w system
@@BenaresDarkness dude you don't have an idea, they got better. People think I have a $2000+ system lol. If im telling you there the best they just are.
You know what you get with a really well designed bandpass ? An enclosure that almost performs as well as a mediocre ported box but still doesn't as good as the crappy ported enclosure lmao
Band pass enclosures when properly designed (S=.7 using a woofer with an EBP of 50 or lower) can exceed the F3 of the same size vented enclosure ( using a woofer with an EBP >=100). One major advantage of a fourth order band pass enclosure is the woofer doesn’t unload at low frequencies so a high pass filter is not required. The same is not true of a sixth order enclosure, the woofer will unload at frequencies below tuning frequency just like a ported box or a transmission line.
I remade my own bandpass subwoofer out of a jamo bandpass sub, I GOT A NEW SUB DRIVER, NEW PORT, Tuned crossover for the lows. I will upload a video of it. Plus you got a new subscriber here. 😀😆😃
I have 1 12" kicker l7 solo baric sub in a small q bomb box it beats now but I have been told to put it in a bigger box is a q bomb box good enough or should I build a box whats you recomendation
To bad most car subs are only in mid 80's for efficiency rating. I don't know my 4th is pretty damn musical and low. lol... Next though is going to be 8 15's in a 6th order isobaric with around 6k of power 😎
@@HashDogg06 I'm not lol just used to the old subs of the 90's with high sensitivity ratings which had their ups and downs. Todays subs need those points on what you mentioned because of all these D class power amps putting tons of power out.
I'm still using an old 4th order bandpass made by Q Logic, loaded with two 10" Polk poly mica subs and it responds really well to every bass frequency I throw at it. The box, near as I can tell it's tuned to about 70hz. Driving those Polk Audio subs with my old liquid cooled Bazooka BA1300 that I bought at the same time back in the mid 90's if memory serves. Old school still banging it out :)
Man Justin, you made my day with this one. So if there is a sub, that has a sealed and ported application from manufacturer, can this be utilized as a reference? Or even worked in conjunction with each other? I know this will be based and the optimal power rating and not so much a high power dumping, which as you stated will require a smaller enclosure to control the sub.
I really think the best way to approach a bandpass is to just model it in something like WINISD or bass box pro. They are just too complicated to do it any other way.
You're quite wrong sir, bandpass literally means bad sound. Bandpass = limited pass band = high q = high resonance = time domain distortion = the kind of distortion that is most obvious = bad sound. Bandpass = bad sound. You can polish this turd, and yes your turd may be then become the shiniest amoungst turds, but a turd it shall remain.
@@DIYAudioGuy I'm glad I made you laugh, but I would also appreciate friendly/funny return dialogue if you see this differently? I try to be as scientific about my understanding of audio systems as I possibly can, and 1st and foremost to be scientific, one needs to be open to the possibility of their own oversight or misunderstanding. :)
First video I've seen from this channel, and it was awesome, thanks! Subscribed! The other thing about bandpass boxes to look out for, with respect to sound quality, is group delay.
i hope you response sir. i have one subwoofer ligthinglab 500wrms 1000max.dual magnet..i love 4rthbandpass...what size of box i use? do you have any sudgestion?
I personally have found a relatively small sealed side with about a 1/1.35 ratio is most musical. Tuned to 56 hertz, it’s quite flat throughout the response from about 26-56. Not best for SPL or super lows, but sounds musical, and still gets loud.
I have a 16 cubic foot band pass made out of inch and a half thick Birchwood plywood with two scar audio zvx V2 18 in. Sealed side is 4 cubic feet ported side is 12 cubic feet. 3 to 1. Pushing 80 volts at 2 ohms. In the cargo area of my 2005 Chevy Tahoe. At 33 HZ it'll score 168 DBs. This is only possible because I used half inch thick lexan for my window on the band pass construction. Also I have (4) 4" ports that are 9 in Long. If you want to get loud your box has got to be rigid. Acrylic is for chumps. Polycarbonate is where it's at.
If you want a good bandpass enclosure that already has a subwoofer, Toby speakers make a great one. Goes down to the 20's hertz and is pretty linear throught the band with. They don't use that much power and have a number of different size enclosure. Located in Halton Tx
At 11:45 you're saying that the on screen exaggerated right 'dog ear' response will sound like garbage - but what if equalisation & or a crossover is used to tame the peak\smooth out the bump - wont that sound good? (try it in WinISD - it's possible, but I've never built a bandpass so I don't know how it will sound in reality)
Many pa. speakers for professional concert use struggle to go deeper than 30hz 40hz. A speaker that does not play deeper than 50hz - 40hz is not good enough if you ask me. What's the point of a big heavy box if it doesn't go deeper? I have owned professional PA. bandpass subwoofer 6ht order that struggled with deep frequencies that didn't sound good. It did not use plastic pipes, it was one box with 18 inches and at least a 200 - 300 liter box.
Hi. I'll like it if you could help me with a ported enclosure for 2 ROCKFORD FOSGATE PUNCH P2D4-12 4-OHM DUAL VOICE COIL 12" SUBWOOFER BASS SPEAKER. I have a Toyota Sienna 2004. The trunk space is w42- D23- H14 or more if needed.
My first speaker box was a bandpass and it was crappy as hell. One of those stupid plexiglass ones. The sealed section on the 2 12s in it were so small it was ridiculous. It sounded horrible and hummed. I just bought it because it looked cool when I was young.
When I was younger I was big into subs and stereos. One of my friends decided to make a homemade band pass box which ended up being huge 4ft cube give or take and I never saw inside but this thing he built and added some random add on amp ended up being the most insanely loud incredible source of bass I’ve still to this day ever come across this was when I was like 15-16 he was 13-14 years old(I’m not 43 and he passed away a few years ago) he used it as a surround sound sub. Not sure how he did it but I’ve still never seen one that could even come close to matching it. I’m thinking he must’ve just guessed something correctly because it was unbelievable
I once built a 4th order band pass as recommended by Kicker for the two 12” comp series. After one week, I made a ported box and it sounded 10X better.
@@DIYAudioGuy I once scoffed at passive radiators in the 80’s as “fake speakers”, rather than frequency extenders, like ports. I’m now considering the “minimum order” of some Tang Band subwoofer modules for a project, and doing something like early Bose array speakers.
@@dalesmth1 For sure, passive radiators have their uses. They are great for when you're trying to make a small enclosure that otherwise would need a giant port.
It's not just about the loudest possible sound, but also the right and good sound is important! Bandpass subwoofer box for me have a problem, all the sound comes out of some plastic pipe and ALWAYS makes noise. You can reduce this but you can never get rid of it 100% What's the point of a lot of bass if it's not nice to listen to??
Wow thats the most informative video ive seen in a LONG time. Subscribed. Would love to see videos like this on series and parallel tuned 6th orders, horns and 1/4 wave T-lines. Thanks for sharing!
Back in the 90s I built two band pass enclosures out of my ass (ie no modeling or calculations). One came out really well and played loud at a certain frequency. The other didn't come out so well. One thing I didn't like about band pass enclosures was the bass was not tight at all. So s kick drum for example sounded very underwhelming.
Purchase a band pass box in the 90's with two 10's! Years later I forget the brand but it was a medium brand in its time like pyramid I think but anyhow it seemed to have a constand gun to it! Honestly I only purchased sealed boxes after that! Would like to try a ported box next system I build! Looking into purchasing 2 of the down for sound jp 23 amps and two subs and well that's as far as I've gotten to so far but back in the day I ran a cadence electronic crossover with a 7 volt line driver and it made a world of difference cause older head units only put out like 2 volts out the RCA's but now I think the average is close to 5 volt but now they have larger line drivers so though people seem to have forgotten them in going to use one! One amp per sub wired down to either 1 ohm or .5 we'll see!
Whsts up !! I am wondering how wud you orientate us on a enclosure on a id say new but yet old modern way that woofers are being mounted on pvc tubes or any other crazy build to make or design the perfect type of tube for a high watt sub in which i do know that thickness of the tube is one fact to make the sub sound to a non vibrating absorbant reaction for the walls of the tube but about the deepness of it for a 12 inch sub..thanks for all of your orientation about looking for the best enclosures for our subs to sound the way it has to be without damaging our sound systems 👍🤜🤛👏👏😃🏆
9:17 I thought it should be pointed out that when the woofer is "Inverted" the voice coil also tends to cool better, especially over longer periods of play, because fresh outside air can enter the open chamber and is exchanged with heated air whereas if the voice coil vent (typically through the rear of the magnet structure) is installed into the sealed chamber the inner air continues to heat and becomes a less efficient cooling system.
The only bandpass I've owned was a Paradigm PS-1000 and it was muddy uncontrolled bass cannon. Good for movies. I want to say it was a one note subwoofer. But it did technically have a good bandwidth above 40Hz. But it felt loudest around 40-60Hz. Could literally punch you in the chest. Again, good good movies. But music was not great. I ended up plugging two of the 3 ports and it was great from 28Hz to mid 30Hz. Used my PSW10 to cover everything above that. But never could get used to the PS-1000 running alone because of the peaky 40-60Hz area.
@@HashDogg06 That sub was best 40Hz+ but it could still do pretty well to 30Hz. Just nothing below that in my room. Music was too muddy and uncontrolled, but movies it did great because it didn't really need control for explosions.
@@DIYAudioGuy can we use linkwitz transform or other kind of shelving EQ to push the low end frequently even further by designing the sealed section small ... Heard alot of small sealed box works well with lots of EQ boost and power 😅
I tuned a 8th order to the opposite of what you showed at the end of the video at 20 hz, and it actually made a very good theatre box it shakes the paintings on my wall with a single shitty 8
Had a dual audio band pass box the one that had two subs in one chamber with the big glass and 4 ports on top with two 12 inch kenwood blue waves mounted to see the magnets on a 1800 watt kenwood amp that slammed
I bought a Bandpass system back in the 90's, because I wanted to hear the bass on my reggae music at low levels, here it is 2021 and my JVC Bandpass system is still pumping out quality bass at low levels just like I like it.
So,happened that I just started in the audio world , have a front stage active and asking around everybody asked, told me that for S.Q. the best bass was a seal box , is that true?
Hey that's me at 2:28! That's some old pictures and videos from an event in 2018. Car is completely different now! It was a flat ported wall then and is well on its way to becoming a 4th order.
Yeah I popped into the show just to see what was going on When I saw you roll the car off the trailer I knew that I was looking at the loudest car at the show! I grabbed some footage of your run. If you would like the entire clip shoot me an email and I'll send it to you! DIYaudioguy@gmail.com
Thank you for explaining it so well. I've built various enclosures and I always look at the woofer's characteristics to see what type of box is best for that specific woofer. If possible, I prefer to start with measuring the speaker's Theile Small parameters and not using the manufacturer's specs, especially when designing complex bandpass boxes. It's fun to experiment though.
I remember back in the '90s when band pass and isoberic for all the rage. People had to get creative to get loud because amplifier power was so expensive.These days we mostly see bandpass in big SPL builds.
Whoaaaaaa man this is knowledge I got two toro force eight inch 800 rms and for some reason my speakers be making popping sound when I crank it up I do believe box is the issue
Does it sound like an electrical pop (like turn-on and turn-off pop) or is it more physical -- like the voice coil former hitting the back plate? If it is the former then a new box will not help. If it is the latter then just turn it down. Either way the sub is damaged. I would recommend a different brand (amzn.to/3vrKQHS).
Very interesting and informative content! I just purchased a Dayton Audio 12” HO DVC sub. I’m trying to understand box designs. What box design would you suggest for the best SQ? I have a space 15”W x 32”L x 15”H. My 15”W is fixed but the other dimensions are flexible. This will be placed between my seats in my second row? Thank You in advance for your insight!
Your best bet is to download WINisd and model it. If you don't want to deal with WINisd I offer box design services. Another option is to reach out to parts express' tech support. They are very helpful.
People need to know what the "theile" or small parameters of a sub means, that way they can use those numbers to dictate what type of enclosure they want to use. Alot of people dont know that certain subs are 4th order friendly,so imo, you should also cover the bases on the small parameters. If you have any luck explaining it in a simple , yet non boring way , i commend you lol.
@@mescko not really, the abarth is a fun little car, i was attempting to create humor. The hard part about that is , you can type something that most people can chuckle at,but there will always be a few people that dont get it.
