Ondolmar or however you spell his name, the Thalmor Justicar of Markarth is also like this, he even thinks highly of you if you do his favor, well as high as a high ranking Thalmor agent can muster for someone they deem a inferior. but the fact that he speaks to you in a respective manner for doing one relatively easy quest, shows a lot, especially considering everyone else treats you like dirt, despite saving them from the forsworn, Alduin, Vampires or other catastrophes
@@samuelhaverghast2442 Calling Dragonborn a folk hero I mean if they wanted to live in the dark or worse yet - have the world eaten, possibly with all the souls present, then sure. Just a mere maggot before the esteemed Thalmor.
Y'know, Martin worshippers are even MORE dangerous to the Thalmor than Talos. The Thalmor got their popularity in the Summerset Isles by claiming they closed all Oblivion Gates, everyone believed them and they got the power in the isles (now Alinor). If it became wildly known that Martin and the Hero of Kvatch were the ones that saved Tamriel (and by proxy Alinor) the Thalmor's position could be jeopardized. They are already quite unpopular in the isles, and even the populous of Valenwood isn't quite fond of the Altmer. If the truth were to be revealed, the Thalmor would easily be overthrown. It's already know by the fan base the agents loyalty is....questionable. See Ondolemar (the Markath agent), he'll literally cause a distraction upon request in the Thalmor Embassy mission after you retrieve a Talos Amulet from a citizen and show it to him. That's very interesting.
@@aetherinfuse I actually never knew it was that unstable. I always thought that the Dominion was filled with a majority of loyalists from the provinces they control.
@@justin2308 It seems they are violently silencing dissidents in the Isles and genociding the Bosmer, Malborn's parents were killed by the Dominion, that why he hates them so much and is willing to help you out in infiltrating the Embassy. They are a tyrannical dictatorship, and rebels are at least prevalent. They are not as powerful as they want you to believe. Otherwise they could just have ended the Empire in the (first) Great War, but instead had to settle for the Concordate
@@rashta5817 they are generic people by tes universe standards. My point was that they recognize they are just soldiers doing their jobs and straight out refuse to talk anything personal with you because to them you're just a random troublemaker they met during another unpleasant work routine. Meanwhile you don't get to know about say Elenwen's or Ulfric's personal lives anything for no reason at all. They were not presented as people but as plot devices. These two are actual people who DON'T WANT to know you. Skyrim characters simply don't have an option to have a personal relationship with save for Serana, Mjoll and legate Rikke.
@@sarmatiancougar7556 Ulfric used to be a greybeard and Elenwen is a straight up enemy why would u include the option of needing to know her personal life aside of living in embassy and hosting party occasionally
Yeah, I was just like... GOD, that's actually a REALLY good idea, have Martin Septim take the place of Talos, carry over many of the traditions and beliefs of the old Talos religion, without invoking Tiber Septim's name, or Talos's for that matter. Martin Septim in name, Tiber Septim in spirit! It almost makes me want to trade my True Nord Blues for some Red Imperial Steel! If such a change were to be officially adopted that is...
@@dilloncrowe1018It is sad that most of the Stormcloaks don’t know, and players as well, that their leader is a Thalmor Spy who was hired to start the war inorder to get the Thalmor better reason to invade Skyrim.
@@Death9008 i heard the thalmor almost lost the war but the concoduct is a cease fire but if the empire had won it would had collasped or something like that
@@pepinvonlila1888 In-Corrig-Ahble? That's how I say it and I have a English accent. Think it is accent. See how a Brit and American say controversy. Very different.
BLACKFYRE Honestly, I wish this was already an option in Vanilla Skyrim. It’s so seamless the way Beyond Skyrim has done this. It feels like an official DLC.
This mod does a better job of explaining the Thalmor's perspective than the entirety of the game that birthed it. Can't say I like the Thalmor, but at least here they mention Tiber Septim's crimes, which goes some way to explaining why they hate that men worship him.
It’s very well written. They are represented as actual living people. Those two are just soldier taken from their homes, sent someplace half across the planet an told to obey, and they are entirely self aware. Nothing like those stupid cultists wandering around in Skyrim with all of their "YOU KNOW TALOS IS FORBIDDEN BRUH".
Yeah, I've only just realized it because of this video. I came here wanting to make a "bruma: that's where the men are women" joke, but I ended up actually learning something. Huh...
@Will Muny The point that the justiciar is trying to make isn't that they are right or justified - it's that since the empire had committed grave acts in the past, he argues that the Aldmeri Dominion is on even moral ground to the empire. In other words, he is attempting to get rid of moral posturing and determine morality through 'victor's justice' by seeing who will ultimately win out in the end - two morally grey factions using only their force of arms to determine the future of Tamriel.
I like that he even has unique dialogue if you have been recognized by the Greybeards as the Dragonborn. It is a level of reactivity you don't see very much at all of in the base game.
I love how the Thalmor turn “Fuck Talos!” Into “I would actually rather verbally curse out the little man god the Nords call *Talos* by using words describing sexual intercourse as an insult!”
I think dialogue like this is exactly what Bethesda should've been writing, both on the part of the Thalmor, the priest, and the protagonist himself. I think the Thalmor are way, _way_ too one-dimensional in Skyrim. You're SUPPOSED to hate them and there is no opportunity given NOT to hate them.
I love how the Thalmor here actually at least hint at the fact that Tiber Septim, while a great conqueror and Emperor, was not a very good or honorable person. But he did make himself a God in the same way Almalexia, Suthusil and Vivec did with the Numidium.
@@VXDCFG in game it's more complex. It's the epiphany that everything, all of existence, all planes, mundus, oblivion planes, the gods, the daedra, all of it, is the manifestation of a sleeping god. CHIM is when you reach this epiphany, but still have the will and ego to say "I Exist" in face of this truth that you are nothing more than a manifestation within a dream. Zero Sum is those reaching that epiphany, and being utterly incapable of exerting their self. There's Dagoth Ur's case too. He is kind of the opposite. He is not achieving CHIM, he is exerting he is the sleeping god. That all things don't truly exist except for the grace and power of his mind. That he brings everything to existence through his dreams.
I like how despite his response to the dialogue option "Tell me a bit about yourself" he does end up revealing enough about himself nonetheless throughout this whole conversation. Correct way to do it.
Bethesda should hire the people who made Beyond Skyrim and Skyblivion so Tes VI is the best and can have the best story and characters it can. An actual fleshed out Thalmor agent? Never thought we’d see that
Wow, an actually nice thalmor agent who also hates his job?! Looks like oblivion froze over. Makes me wanna install this mod even though I know something is gonna crash. I wonder, does the milk-lemonade concordat outlaw the worship of pelinal whitestrake?
Can't wait to find out how the Thalmor and to larger extent Aldmeri Dominion fell to the Dragonborn post Skyrim. I swear Bethesda never let's us play the interesting parts of history.
Thalmor in Skyrim I feel we're picked specifically bc of how zealous they are. By sending the craziest ones that'll follow the rules to the T it'll ensure another war.
Out of all the high elves in the thalmor that I want to see on a spike, I think Armion would be spared and rule the thalmor as it's Ambassador if there was war
The whole idea of the Thalmor sending Justiciars to Imperial territory to enforce the Concordat is a very bad idea. I mean, at any time, the war can easily break out again between the Dominion and the Empire, and all of these Thalmor, most of whom are soldiers and mages, are still stuck in Imperial territory. You can bet your ass that the first thing that would happen is that the locals and the Imperial military would round these morons up and execute them, offering their heads as a sacrifice to Talos to bless the Imperial banners as the Imperial army marches off to war. And even without a war, some Imperial or Stormcloak can pay some mercenaries or have some guys dress up like bandits to kill these fools. Then again, maybe the Thalmor are just trying to get rid of their less-than-effective officers and soldiers, so throwing them into the lion's den to enforce a treaty could be their way of "culling the stupid" from their ranks.
I made myself a pretty Thalmor Dragonborn and Ondolemar in Markarth is my follower . I used the cheat mod to make him love and follow me. He hums a tune sometimes and is hilarious when you kill a dragon . I love when he says And That’s what you get for messing with me . I love his companionship . I’ve played and staunch Stormcloak and killed him in every other playthrough but as a female Altmer I really love him 😂
Ah, now THAT'S an idea, pray to Martin Septim the same way we true Nords pray to Talos, different Idol, sure, but same/similar ideologies, kind of like Catholicism vs Protestantism in the real world. Now THAT'S a religion I could be persuaded to trade Talos for!
The Thalmor are actually right in this,if arrogant. Tiber Septim used dwemer technology given to him by one of The Tribunal to conquer the Summerset isles.Later The Empire had to accept a stalemate and treaty.Now let the Nordists cry over that.
It wasn't a stalemate, the Aldmeri Dominion won and enforced everything they wanted to enforce with the White-Gold concordat. Ondolemar in Markath (I think? might've been another Thalmor agent) literally says something along the lines of "this wasn't a peace forged by 2 nations of equal strength, more a calm before the storm" hinting that they're planning to attack again and actually finish off the Empire. Even Tullius and Rikke know that the Thalmor are gearing up for round 2 to finish them off.
I thought the White Gold Concordat only allows the Thalmor to operate in Skyrim as the terms were breached there, and not in Cyrodil. Interesting characters anyway, though the Empire's unlikely to allow the Thalmor into their borders, especially official agents like Judicators, Skyrim's an exception purely because of the Stormcloak rebellion.
they do mention the proximity to Skyrim, maybe they are like kind of border watch? my guess Ulfric and the player were captured near Bruma at the start of the game, and Thalmor are around for the execution, so maybe they operated around Jerall Mountains area
@@K_1_T_S_U_N_E The White-Gold Concordat does not allow the Thalmor to arrest Talos worshippers all across the Empire. They can only do that if the Empire's incapable of doing that, which is the case with Skyrim. I mean if they could, I'd like some evidence on that, especially if they have a headquarters in Kvatch they operate from that I doubt wouldn't be heavily monitored by the Empire.
Beyond Skyrim: Bruma It’s the 1st step of a plan to recreate the entirety of Tamriel during the times of Skyrim (excluding Alinor, Nirn Uncharted is working on that)
@@andryuu_2000 ^^^ and this right here is why Nobody likes the Empire, and you Assumed I was a Stormcloak, True but other races also hates the Empire the Dominion the Bosmer/Dunmer for Abandoning them the redguards for surrendering and selling them off to the Dominion and Imperial hating other Imperials. I am a Dunmer and was Loyal to the Empire till they Betrayed that trust and Abandoned my people, now all I have left is pity and contempt.
This is so relevant nowadays. Thalmor saying how bad the Cyrodilic Empire is carries about as much weight as Communist Chinese saying how the "American Empire" is, which is to say, no weight at all.
@@nirablackfire2792 This seems to haunt you, or why did you come back a day later to add something :)? I never saw the Thalmor as a Mafia, but I get what you mean. I always saw them more as the KGB or something worse (something more inclined to eugenics as many Altmer seem to be). And of course every Altmer and Thalmor is different. What made me often wonder were the Thalmor working on farms in Skyrim, there are a few. I wondered maybe they are spies but then I pulled myself back for being to much of a paranoid stormcloak and thought: If they are willing to spend their long lives this way they have to be good people or so to say: Individuals.
If anything the almost completely lack of variation in Altmer personalities is unrealistic - it's way too simplistic, and waters down the effect of the radicalism you see in the Thalmor (it simply makes them boring and annoying, when they could be terrifying if done well). Even if Altmer as a race are raised without the concept of humor or it's frowned upon or whatever, if a race is spread far and wide across Tamriel and exposed to so many different cultures and experiences, you're always going to get cases of adaption and individualism occurring.
I don’t like the thought of Thalmor kill them Every time I see them on the game running around accusing everybody being Heretiks When thay are the ones that are the heretics
