Biblical Proof of Mary's Queenship w/ Dr. John Bergsma 

It seems like Dr. Bergsma would be easy to be friends with.

I’m Orthodox, but this is great. I knew this but I hadn’t heard it put this well.

Interestingly, the spouse of the King is not the Queen, the Queen is the mother of the King. It shows up in the Old Testament with Solomon's mother. The wife of the King had to bow to her husband when she entered his presence; however, when the mother of the King entered the room, the King would raise up from his throne, go to meet her and bowed to her. Remember, King Solomon had a chair brought for his mother and she sat next to him. He requested her opinion on matters for the people and she would petition her son for others..quite beautiful...That is also where we understand how Jesus would treat his mother. She is the Queen Mother

That was a good thumbnail. Keep it up Matt!

Id also like to add that the numbering of verses and chapters were later added to the Bible. If you read the book with this in mind, St John talks of seeing the ark of the covenant in heaven in the previous chapter. Its not a coincidence, because we Catholics also believe that Mary is the new ark of the covenant.

St Thomas came to India and Founded the Catholic Church The True Church Founded by Lord God Incarnate Jesus christ, Alleluia Alleluia Alleluia Glory to God Amen 😊

My queen and my mom

Queenship? This is a new concept to me. I never got that vibe from the bible

I've read thru Rev 1:1 - 6 twice, and nowhere do I see a resemblance to Mary. For one, Mary never had to flee to the wilderness.

The imagery in Revelation 12:1 is similar to the imagery in Genesis 37:9, Joseph's dream. Due to that I always saw the woman in Revelation 12 being representative of Israel, with the Messiah coming from Israel. While I can see the Mary connection as well, having Revelation 12 say that Mary is divine eternal royalty is a bit of a stretch.

Excellent clip.

Mary is the Queen Mother of Heaven and Earth. There are 4 kinds of Queenship 1. Queen Regent: A Kind of Queen that rule in her own power 2. Queen Regnant: A Queen Consort, but appointed by the King to rule for a mean time. 3. Queen Consort: Wife of a King 4: Queen Mother: Mother of a King So if Jesus is the King of Heaven and Earth, She is the Queen Mother of Heaven and Earth, easy as that! Catholicism knows how Queenship works.

I used to be Protestant, and when we went over Revelation 12, the pastor insisted that the woman clothed with the sun was Israel and DEFINITELY NOT Mary! haha

I also heard from someone that the mother of the King is called Queen in Israel. So as Jesus is KIng of Kings then Mary is queen in heaven.

If the woman in Revelation 12 truly is Mary, than Catholics have to accept that Mary was in labor pains ( Verse 2 "She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.") And that conclusively means she was under the curse of sin. Luke 11:27-28 As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Dear Viewers. The writings of the mystic Maria Valtorta gives a first hand glimpse into the life of Jesus and Mary whose which is where the diary starts (prior to Her birth). Having read it before going through Israel, years ago, I was able to recognise parts of her writings, at first hand, as Valtorta had been so descriptive. I am sure that reading her writings would give NT scholars a very good/better perspective into the Bible! Prayers for your understanding from The great South Land; Land of The Holy Spirit. 04/06/2121

The thumbnail is awesome😎

Thank you.

Glory to God Amen brother 👏♥️🙏

Mary will help save the Church!

The argument that the woman in Revelation 12 is the Church has always bothered me, even when I was a protestant. The Church flowed from the person of Jesus Christ. If the image in Relevation is Christ being born, them that is a reversal of what actually happened. So the order is out of wack, so in my conclusion it could have only been Israel or Christ, however when you pair Revelation 12 with the John 19:26" When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman, here is your son,” you see that John after reflecting on that event began to see that Mary was not just Jesus's mother but the spiritual mother of the Church.

Protestant here. The only reason the crown thing doesn’t instantly make her the queen of heaven in my mind is that Scripture tells us that many of us will, at the judgment seat of Christ (the Bema), receive various crowns for works that we did on earth. Just some quick examples: Shepherds will receive the crown of glory (1 Peter 5:4), those who remain steadfast under trial will receive the crown of life (James 1:12 & Rev 2:10), those who love his appearing will, along with Paul, receive the crown of righteousness (2 Tim 4:8). So yes, we all know that Mary was faithful and is the mother of the king of kings, and is worthy of love and respect, but mothers of kings are not necessarily queens and having a crown in heaven does not make you a ruler of it. Calling Mary the Queen of Heaven implies rulership in some way which is what rubs us prots the wrong way. Love the channel and will continue to like and comment for the algorithm! Blessings to all!

Also, Christ sits on David's throne. In the Davidic Kingdom, the king's wife was not the queen - the king's mother was queen.

Thank you Matt! Your show is amazing and thanks for having Dr Bergsma

That was cool

Written in the stars folks.

That Bob Ross kind of song in the intro

As with Laura Hill, one has to put the whole question in the context of the time of Christ ---not some European concept of queen. Folks tend to forget that Jesus was jewish and Mary was as well-- And this is why Laura's remarks hold. Jewish tradition holds the mother as queen.

I usually like Bergsma, but he’s clearly reading what he wants out of this. Revelation 12 is clearly about Israel. It parallels Daniel. The nation of Israel birthed the messiah who would rule the world. The audience John wrote to would have known exactly who he was talking about: Israel. There’s a reason it’s so closely connected to Daniel.

Great video! I love Matt's vidoes and the Dr. Bergsma is a great guest. I myself am not a Catholic, but I can learn a lot from these brothers. I do think, however, there is a better argument against the queenship of marriage that they didn't consider. I actually have never read nor heard someone who thinks the woman in Rev. 12 isn't Mary. So, I'm interested in the arguments that point to her being the Church or Israel. Both of those seem implausible to me. So, I'd agree with Dr. Bergsma and Matt on that one. The better argument, it seems to me, is that Rev. 12 is providing the truth of Christ's birth through metaphors. For example, consider an Amillenialist who takes the woman in Rev. 12 to be Mary. She is cast in the metaphor as a queen because she is blessed among woman (Luke 1:42). But being blessed among woman doesn't get you "queenship in heaven". So, the argument, at least as it was presented in the video, is invalid. Mary's queenship doesn't follow from her description in Rev. 12. To demonstrate my point, take the dragon. Satan isn't actually a dragon. Him being cast as a dragon is to tell some other point: that is, he is evil, wild, untamable, and powerful. So, if they and I don't take it *concretely* true that Satan is a dragon even though he is described as a dragon, then we also can't take it *concretely* true that Mary is a queen even though she is described as a queen. Furthermore, just because Mary's son, Jesus, is King doesn't entail she must be a queen. If that were the case, then Saul's (from the OT) mother was a queen, which she was not, and David's mother was a queen, which she was not. So, I don't think this argument is very strong. It's not a forceful argument given that Satan as a dragon doesn't mean he's actually a dragon. In fact, you don't even have to be an Amillenialist to accpet my argument. Everyone agrees that is at least some metaphor in the book of Revelation. Still a great video! I'll always have a pint with Aquinas.

Hi! This clip is awesome! I do have a question if anyone knows the answer...that verse says that the woman gave birth with labor pains, but if Mary was without original sin then wouldn’t she be free from that physical pain?

So this kinda blew my mind and got me thinking if all is accounted for Jesus, Mary Queen of Heaven where does this leave Joseph?

Based

I’ve been reading the comments to see the objections to Catholic Church teaching and I keep seeing the same two. That the Catholic Church is teaching falsehoods and secondly that anything not present in the Bible is not true. I’d like to refute those two arguments. So the official Catholic Church teaching is without error. We can see support of this in scripture, especially in 1 Timothy 3:15 where the Church is acknowledged as “the pillar and foundation of truth.” This means that the Church is incapable of teaching falsehoods and to say that it does is to say that it is not the one true church. However we know it is the church founded by Christ himself so that we may know for a fact that it is his church as established in Matthew 16:18 “you are Peter and on this rock I shall build my church.” Rock in Ancient Greek from which the scriptures were translated is “Petra” and in scripture Peter is called Petros which is the masculine form for rock. So by analyzing the Ancient Greek, we can conclude that Christ did build his church with Peter as it’s Pope. This supports the foundation of the Catholic Church and it’s truthfulness. So we know from scriptural evidence that the Catholic Church is the true church founded by Christ himself and that it is the pillar of truth incapable of teaching error. Now the next objection is that anything not taught in the scriptures is not true. However we see St. Paul implore us to adhere to tradition in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, “stand firm and hold on to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.” So we see that although it may not be in the Bible itself, does not mean that it is wrong. St. Paul tells us that truth can be passed on by the word of mouth. Not to mention the Bible in its entirety wasn’t compiled until roughly 200 A.D (www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/topics/religion/bible). Many of our beliefs about the Blessed Mother came prior to the canonization of the Bible via Holy Tradition. So we see that while certain teachings may not explicitly be in the Bible, that does not mean they are wrong as St. Paul tells us to adhere to oral tradition. I hope that this has helped clarify for anyone who has held those objections or was still a little confused.

❤️➕🍀

You'd think Aquinas would have pointed this all out. Seems to know everything else.

It’s an honour to be doing my second episode with John tomorrow at 2 pm EST, on the Jewish roots of Catholicism!

Another thing that is interesting is that Jesus gave Mary to be Spiritual Mother to One of the 12 Apostles. So you can say she was given to be Spiritual Mother of all 12 Apostles. Maybe.

If we are to take this as literal referral to Mary then 12:2 seems to dismantle the claim of the mother of our Lord free from original sin, no? Or are the child birth pains symbolic but the rest is literal?

When they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Isn't it strange that After the 7 letter to the churches, the rest of revelation is about the future, but then Chapter 12 jumps back to the past?

A preface before I post anything - I understand that the book of revelation is full of symbolism. There are a lot of things which are unclear, and which have not necessarily been revealed to us yet. The argument I've heard about Revelation 12 is that the Woman in the wilderness represents the nation of Israel. Others have argued that it represents the Church. Another consideration is whether this is a literal passage or metaphorical. When we look at symbolism in scripture, it's usually one or the other, dreams and visions usually having a lot of symbolism and some prophetic words being literal (as in the command of God to Moses that he should approach pharoah to have Israel released from slavery.) Seeing that the vision includes a dragon pursuing a woman through the wilderness, but the woman is given wings so that she may escape the dragon, I'm pretty sure that this one is metaphorical. I am not saying I disbelieve the supernatural - in fact I believe it's an essential part to our Christian faith. But to understand passages like this, we need to understand what kind of passage this is - then we can begin to work on meaning. Biblical poetry like the psalms is to be understood very differently than the book of Exodus, which is a historical account.

I debated someone about this long time ago. Then his response was revelation is not a good book to use for doctrine.

Don't forget that in the Gospel of Luke (1:26-38) whereupon the archangel Gabriel came to Mary and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." Hail is a salute performed from a subordinate or inferior person to a person superior to the one saluting. Gabriel is saluting Mary, his superior. Full of grace indicates free from sin, completely blemish free inside and out both spiritually and physically. There is only one other Person in scripture described as full of grace, Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus the Christ. Although a human creature like you and I, Mary (Saint Mary) was regarded as the Queen of Heaven and Earth by the salutation from an angelic creature who stands before God and was proclaimed to be without blemish by the same creature.

Matthew 12:46 While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers[a] stood outside, asking to speak to him.[b] 48 But he replied to the man who told him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Only pray to Abba.

Protestant here. You should change the title from "biblical proof" to "biblical evidence." This is supporting evidence for the Catholic position but not decisive proof. As a Protestant I think it's interesting and at least plausible but there remain other ways to understand this passage.

Before I proceed, I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ who serve the Lord. I just want to put out some truth and some bible reading/studying 101. Read the ENTIRE chapter and it will clearly show that this woman is Israel not Mary. It describes what happens to the woman and Mary did not go through ANY of what is described. Also, for the sake of argument, say that it is Mary, it still doesn't explicitly give her that title or mention that she has been given authority of any kind or any position in heaven. It only mentions she had the child and needed to be protected from the dragon and was given wings to flee to a safe place prepared for her by God in the wilderness for 3.5 years, which has great parallels to end time events. Please beloveds, do not make leaps and assumptions but instead read what is there, read all passages that are relevant and always think of context. READ THE WHOLE THING! God Bless.

So much time and effort is put into justification of Mary.

Great , there is no contradiction between Mary as a person or as a personification of Israel...daughter of Zion... the new Jerusalem and the new Eve. Luke and John highlight this typologies.

Yeah wow... very long bow! Generally we see things in the old testament before shown fully in the new. There is a mention of the queen of heaven in the old testament in jeremiah 44. I suspect it's the same spirit giving confirmation that Mary is the queen of heaven (Astarte and Asherah)

Thought I don't believe in Queenship , its interesting

The description of labor pains in the passage ruled out Mary for me personally. But maybe it can still apply partially.

Hail Holy Queen, Mother of God Intercedes for me my mother Nama Mary. Amen

Thank You for the interview. Our Blessed Mother is always ready to ask her Son for help. Read the book "Mystical city of God", dictated to Ven. Mary of Agreda. I prayed rosary to Our Lady and I recieved many blessings.

Based on the above argument, then Jesus is also called the seed of King David. So does that mean David is also a King or a Father of Jesus in Heaven ? Absolutely not. We need to understand that, the book of Revelation is filled with visions and hence we see different views and interpretations. Here is a thumb rule, 'Whenever things are not made crystal clear in the Bible, it calls for a spiritual insight rather than a theological one'. If God wanted to highlight the queenship of Mary, he would do so convincingly without leaving a shadow of doubt. The Bible clearly states only the Holy Triune God being Father, Son and Spirit but nowhere even mentions a fourth entity in heaven. This should have been more than sufficient hint when Jesus himself didn't call his own mother as Mother but rather called her Woman just as Adam called Eve a woman because she was taken or made out of a man(Gen 2:23) which further solidifies the argument that Mary was not an divine entity but only a good and holy woman chosen by God to bring His Son into this world, that's it. She completed her assignment and then she died like all humans do and did not rise from the dead. Hence, Mary being the Queen of Heaven is just a wishful thought of every Catholic and nothing else.

Rev 12 is astral theology. It is describing the movement of the heavenly bodies which foretold the coming and birth of Messiah. These aren't people in the heavens. These are the constellations. When you plot these movements into software you are brought to a 90 minute window in 3 BC on September 11th. This also corresponds to Tishri 1 - the time when most of the Israelite kings were crowned.

"Gebirah"

This verse is in reference to the astrological positions at the time of the birth of Christ. A study of the movements of heavens place these happenings on September 3rd 3 AD. This is all laid out by many scholars. Michael Heiser has the most concise and easy to follow in Reversing Mount Hermon. The catholic adaptation of pagan goddess (Artemis, Demeter, Diana, Hera, ect) is what we see them follow today as Mary. It's idolatry, it's a violation of the first and second commandment, and that is plain and simple to understand. Mary WAS a human. Not a sin-less human. She is dead, saved only by her faith in Christ and his work on the cross. She's not an object of veneration, Christ never claimed she should be, other than his mother, as we should all honor our mother and father. Does that mean she holds a special place in heaven due to the fact that Christ honors her as his mother? Maybe, but he never said that. Does that mean we should honor her as our own mother? No, Christ never said to do that. What we can learn from all the teachings and actions of Christ surrounding his mother is that we should all honor our mother, as Christ honored his.

Proud to be A Catholic 😊

The only problem with this argument is, does the description of Mary with royal language mean she is to be treated as more than a human, or is it symbolic of her role as a human? What I mean is, the devil is also described with royal language, and we can find verses that would describe him as a prince or king, but are we to treat him differently because of this? The obvious answer is no, the devil is a fallen Elohim that defies and combats Gods creation, we can respect his power but that does not mean we give him authority or prominence above anything else. Likewise, my issue isn’t that we can Mary queen or blessed mother, but that she is given authority and prominence above the level of a human being. Yes God used her to do amazing things, yes she deserves our respect and honor, but I believe we should not be venerating her to the point that we pray to her or see her as above the level of a fellow human being. Just my thoughts though, good video either way.

I'm Protestant and looking to see if there are arguments claims around Mary other than being blessed, being a virgin, and being a "woman" that Jesus commonly referred to. I wouldn't find this response convincing as it's too open. The mother of God (Mater dei) and Queen of Heaven are not titles given in scripture but were later added, and I think we need to tread carefully about what ideas were championed when Christianity merged and then superseded Roman paganism. My present understanding still therefore remains that Mary was a blessed woman, and someone who was necessary to give birth to Jesus Christ. It doesn't make her Queen of Heaven, but can be argued would make her a queen as earthly royal lines go, but she's just a human being, imperfect like the rest, albeit, possibly less sinful than most. She died and will rise again as the "woman" who beheld "her" son at the foot of the cross. Anything else is added, or interpreted, and when titles as significant as this are given to her, and subsequent praise and adoration follows, we all need to be extremely careful where that goes and what it teaches. Based on this answer alone, I'm not convinced. And kudos to Matt for questioning in an impartial manner, too, which he didn't need to do 👏

I'm sure of her eternal virginity (disproven in Acts 1:14) and her title ("The Queen of Heaven" - NOT a biblical term of endearment BTW!) is all proven in the super-secret, super-special apocryphal book known as "2nd 0pinions".

Catholic scholars Raymond Brown and J.A. Fitzmyer, editors of the Jerome Biblical Commentary (2:482): a woman: Most of the ancient commentators identified her with the Church; in the Middle Ages it was widely held that she represented Mary, the Mother of Jesus. Modern exegetes have generally adopted the older interpretation, with certain modifications. In recent years several Catholics have championed the Marian interpretation. Numerous contextual details, however, are ill-suited to such an explanation. For example, we are scarcely to think that Mary endured the worst of the pains of childbirth (v. 2), that she was pursued into the desert after the birth of her child (6, 13ff.), or, finally, that she was persecuted through her other children (v. 17). The emphasis on the persecution of the woman is really appropriate only if she represents the Church, which is presented throughout the book as oppressed by the forces of evil, yet protected by God. Furthermore, the image of a woman is common in ancient Oriental secular literature as well as in the Bible (e.g., Is 50:1; Jer 50:12) as a symbol for a people, a nation, or a city. It is fitting, then, to see in this woman the People of God, the true Israel of the OT and NT.

Nice thumbnail, lol.

Jeremiah 7 and 44 queen of heaven a pagan goddess??

Marian Veneration just seems like a modern day Ashera pole. I’d prefer to err on the side of caution, especially with matters not tied to salvation.

1. it is not Church, because apparently, it is not Christ that comes out of Church but it is the other way around, church "comes out" of Jesus. 2. it is not Israel. If it is Israel, then what is the point of having NEW FAITH if the OLD FAITH still bear the same "success" as the NEW FAITH. By that logic, there is no need for Jews to convert to believe in Christ (the very fundamental point of protestants which is SOLA FIDE) because apparently, God would rejoin them (the jews) together in their old faith. IT IS MARY, THE MOTHER OF JESUS.

But Rev 12 is astrological language, encoding the date of Jesus’s birth, sept 12, 3bc

Not lame. Israel, the OT church, God’s bride, DID LITERALLY give birth to the Messiah. Yes, Mary was the way that happened. There is definitely an allusion to her. But she is not the main point. There’s a reason the woman in Rev 12 has a crown of twelve stars, for the twelve tribes of Israel. She is true Israel, both OT and NT. Later in the chapter, she flees into the wilderness (after Christ ascends to heaven) and is persecuted by the dragon for 1,260 days, the same amount of time that the saints of the most high are persecuted (11:2 & 13:5). She signifies the people of God.

I'm a partial preterist. This interpretation seems plausible. Bum I'm protestant in my theology. This seems to me a heresy...

Will Mary be bowing her knee at the feet of Christ with all creation?

Seems to me like the "blessed mother" is separate from marry, or the name "marry" would have been used. Seems like the blessed mother would be the holy spirit portion of a trinity for women, believing God as we know him to be the head of this image and likeness as well -I'm not personally affiliated with any denomination, open for all discussion 😁

Revelation 12 could refer to constellations aligning at that part of The Great Tribulation or to the Bride of Christ or both. But what I DO KNOW is that Mary is NOT Queen of Heaven. Catholicism is one of the grievous wolves that Jesus warned would soon enter and not spare the flock. In fact, the Queen of Heaven is spoken of as IDOLATRY in the Old Testament. Jeremiah 7:18-19 KJV "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger." And if Jesus wanted to revere Mary (as anything other than a blessed human similar to John the Baptist or Paul), he would have done so FAR SOONER than in Revelation! But, instead, when she and his siblings came to take him away from teaching the public (after the accusation that he'd lost his mind), his reply in Matthew 12:46-50 was to say that anyone who does the will of the Father is his mother. "46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."

I'm sorry but revelation 12, You were stumbled by revelations 12. How, Seriously how you never read the passage. No offense to my catholic brothers but I have literally torn catholics to shreds with revaluations 12. If you want to mercilessly attack catholics it's literally the best passage. I am shocked that you were stumbled by it.

Well put - it's symbolic AND historically, factually founded. But "you can't rule it out" is a far cry from "this has to be true." I am a protestant growing in appreciation of Mary so I'll have to sit with this a while. I've typically found great encouragement in the Heavenly Queen of Rev 4:12 as the symbols expounded in Scripture (e.g. Lady Wisdom in Proverbs) because they draw me nearer to the text. I don't fault the "this passage is suspiciously Marian" statements but they do feel like they (these arguments, not Orthodox and Catholic conversants) are trying to draw my attention away from the text to a supposed notion of Mary rather than the mosaic of iconography embedded in scripture, of which Mary is a part. So, what does Marian devotion mean to you in terms of day to day faith and interaction with the text, your community, listening to the Holy Spirit, etc?

Jeremiah 7:8 The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger. Jeremiah 44:25 Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: You and your wives have declared with your mouths, and have fulfilled it with your hands, saying, ‘We will surely perform our vows that we have made, to make offerings to the queen of heaven and to pour out drink offerings to her.’

You should all watch Mike WInger's commentary on Catholicism.

What's wrong with all these male proddy objectors? It's the power thing, isn't it? Mary, the most humble of all women! Now exalted, as she said.

God does not make queens without a King. Jesus is the only fleshly child ever born as King from birth through the line of David. He does not marry his mother, so she is never a queen not on earth or in heaven by God. God used an illustration of the covenant as a bride whom he marry to make us understand the depth of this special relationship that He made with the people He chose to bring forth and give birth to our Salvation from. Namely through His bride who is the Jews or the twelve tribes and made the covenant with them to bring forth our Messiah. That is why they had to be faithfull and keep a clean line and NOT marry outside the tribe the Gens must be absolutely clean and Mary as virgin was the clean line wessel, whom God chose to give birth to our King of Kings. She is a jew and part of being the bride with all believing faithful Jews that through all ages since Moses to the birth of tour Royal Messiah Jesus Christ. The jews in the tribulation the little flock is also included. The bride made herself ready to be taken by her Bridegroom and to rule and reign forever and that is the Jewish people that have been faithful and tried. Those of the twelve tribes of believing Jews who will keep their faith (according to Prophesy) through the great tribulations that will purify them in their trials and not take the mark of the beast. She(they)will be the subdued crowned as a queen is crowned (the wife that is subdued to her husband by Gods rules for man and wife), she is that women, the millenniums kingdoms earthly Jews that will rule and reigned at the second coming of The Messiah Jesus Christ our coming King and she will sit a queen to reign with him on earth. The peaceful 1000 years of ruling is the marriage supper (one day is like thousand years to the Lord.) The Jews will be a royal priesthood that will reign with Christ and He will put His laws of the new covenant he will make after the tribulation period, into their minds and hearts so they can keep them easily. Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: The christians that go through Daniels seventieth week or the Great Tribulation and did and whom also did not take the mark of the beast is saints in fine white garment also purified in their trials, will be the guest at the marriage supper, but few will be able to with stand satans mark . Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. He even made the women a divorce bill (because of fornication and idolatry) but also promised that He will take her back. She will have to be faithful to Him and subdue and believe. The body of Christ the church that God is building today in this age of grace is one spiritual church that we become a member of upon salvation. This church is made up of all believers that are called out of the world by believing the gospel of the grace of God (2 Thess. 2:14) and are assembled together in one spiritual Body in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile. The moment a sinner trusts Christ as Saviour the Holy Spirit baptises him into the Body of Christ. Now, during the Age of Grace, “we are not under the law but under grace” (Romans 6:15). The Law has been fulfilled (Matthew 5:17), and God’s grace in Christ is plain for all to see. All that is required for salvation is to trust in Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31). He has done all that is necessary for salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9). The Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of His body the church is all saved people in this present age of Gods grace and are members of it. Now, during the Age of Grace, “we are not under the law but under grace” (Romans 6:15). The Law has been fulfilled (Matthew 5:17), and God’s grace in Christ is plain for all to see. All that is required for salvation is to trust in Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31). He has done all that is necessary for salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9). (27) For as many of you as have been baptised into Christ have put on Christ. 28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:27-28) This present age ends by great tribulation before the second coming of Christ. Yes.. We are living in Gods grace age right now. The only thing that is holding back Satan’s plans and the releasing of the Antichrist is the Holy Spirit. When the believers are taken to Heaven in the rapture, the Holy Spirit will leave as well. The Holy Spirit is on earth now in the church and the believers, once we are taken in the rapture the Holy Spirit will be taken from the earth as well.

Now no one knows when the rapture will happen. I hope this perspective from me, will be a blessing and an eye opener from God.

Yeah incredibly poor argument. Have you even read Ezekiel 16? It’s all about Israel being a woman and God adorning her. Not that the crown of 12 stars shouldn’t tell anyone reading that she is Israel anyway. No Apostle in any Epistle or Gospel ever refer to Mary as anything more than a mortal woman. She’s barely even mentioned at all after Jesus’ birth and where she is mentioned it is never as anything but a mortal woman. Mary worship is absolute idolatry! Praying to anyone other than God is blasphemy. There is one mediator between man and God and that is Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5…One mediator. Stop the idolatry and man-created doctrines and start believing God’s word…Here is just a part of Ezekiel 16. You should read it all but notice the crown God puts on Israel’s head: “I also adorned you with ornaments and put abracelets on your hands and a bnecklace around your neck. 12 “I also put a aring in your nose, earrings in your ears, and a splendid crown on your head. 13 “Thus you were adorned with agold and silver, and your clothing was of fine linen, silk, and embroidered cloth. You ate fine flour, honey, and oil; so you were exceedingly beautiful and advanced to Royalty” Ezekiel 16:11-13

I would say it's only possible to see this Chapter as referring to Mary because you want to see it that way; Revelartons is far too full of allegory to make this so much 'in your face'... the Gospels give a rather different image of Mary.

With all due respects. This doesn't prove anything. Mary is no the queen of heaven. She died like the apostles did. This is only teach in Catholic circle and is not Biblical. Is this doctrines of Mary would it be as important as Catholics make it, Jesus and the apostles with it teach more about it. Dont you think? Read the history of the church, no from the Catholic view, which by the way they were the ones killings jews because apparently they killed Jesus. Our God is One ,Father, Son and Holly Spirit.

Horrifying heresy. Unknown to the church for hundreds of years. Shameful.

I still don't see any precedence for the "worship" of Mary in the bible as the Catholics do.

The worship of the queen of heaven related in the Old Testament was clearly prohibited in Israël. Because it was a pagan worship. See Jeremiah 7 and 44. The serie The 3rd Adam by Spencer Smith makes the light over pagan worship from its origins until now. Mike Winger on Catholicism is a good reference too. It seriously matters.

12 stars? Brings forth the Messiah? The default interpretation should simply be the nation of Israel, especially due to the mention of labor pains. The fact that he considers this a good argument makes me question his critical thinking skills and objectivity. I want to become Catholic. I would love for this to be Mary. But I have a higher standard for what I consider "proof" or a good argument. Scott Hahn is also bad about using this type of argumentation. It's just disappointing "weak sauce. I love this channel, but you may want to consider changing the title of this video.

I intend to have crowns in heaven. I am not the Queen of heaven.

You guys spend your time talking about the weirdest stuff. Really. This has no bearing on anything. Perfect for a podcast. 👍

Try reading the rest of Revelation 12. This guy would buy the Brooklyn bridge.

In the Magnificat Mary says, "My God and my Savior" (Luke 1:46-55). Why would a perfect person need a savior? In Luke 11:27-28 Jesus rebuked the person who blessed/worshipped His mother. Praying to or worshipping anyone other than God is idolatry. The Queen of Heaven mentioned in Jeremiah 7:18 and 44:17-25 refers to Ishtar or Ashtoreth, the pagan goddess of fertility. In Revelation 12:1 the Greek word is "woman" not queen. Allegorically "women" in the Bible often refer to a religion, in this reference, Judaism. Your exegesis of Revelation 12:1-3 is very questionable!!

She was just a human. Jesus was God.

Catholics remind me so much of Mormons. It ultimately all boils down to church authority. And if you look unbiasedly at the Catholic church's checkered (to say the least), evolving history, there's good cause to doubt such self-proclaimed authority. God is unchanging, and yet the sentiments of the Catholic church seem to change all the time. I'm glad they don't burn people at the stake anymore...

Rev 12 is literally the only place. Where do we ever see worship of Mary? No where

O foolish , who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? . Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Chapter 12 is about the nation of Israel. Jesus himself never even called Mary mother. Mary herself testified to this. The catholic church is truly the great harlot of chapter 17.

No, that woman is the church… not ‘queen mary’. To read Revelation literally is a mistake; it is filled with symbolism. Please see this recent conversation between a catholic priest and I regarding the ‘divinity’ of Mary. Me: I’m having trouble with the belief Mary was holy her entire earthly life. From what I know now the concept is she had to be the perfect ‘vessel’ for Christ to be perfect. My argument would be, wouldn’t her parents then have to be perfect too and so on? She represented His humanity, not His divinity… which came from the immaculate conception by the Holy Spirit; that’s why Christ wasn’t fathered by Joseph. “All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” “Surely I was sinful from birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.” Priest: Thanks for reaching out. The Hail Mary has all its roots in scripture. Here is a great podcast for you to listen too about the Hail Mary prayer. (Link provided by priest) Me: I checked out your resource on Mary. I find the scriptural explanations to be a stretch. Do you believe she had original sin? Full of grace” means full of undeserved love. “Highly favored” means it was a blessing to be chosen to be the mother of the Messiah. My door is definitely still open to learning more here. Perhaps, like Abraham, God ‘credited it to her as righteousness” that she walked with God as much as possible and was chosen to be Jesus’ mom. I just think she still had original sin, being only fully human and not divine, whereas Christ had no original sin because His Father is God. Priest: We must realize that her sinless birth is a dogma of the Catholic church which is an infallible teaching promulgated by the church whom Jesus entrusted with full teaching authority. Remember, Catholics believe in both Scripture and Tradition, like two lungs breathing life into the church. Dogmas safeguard the deposit of faith. Believe it or not, at one point there were heritics who taught that something different than the oneness of God and the Trinity. Dogma, promulgated by the church safeguarded that teaching that you and i and all protestant churches enjoy today. So if the church has the authority to do that, why not also the authority to declare Marys immaculate conception. Me: Surely you understand that, because sinful men make up the church, sinful practices can infiltrate the church. Look at how 6% of priests fall into the sin of pedophilia. Factions even within the same synods/ denominations (whether catholic, Lutheran, etc.) argue/ differ over interpretations/ traditions. Priest: Im not sure why you bring up sinful men/practices. That has no bearing whatsoever on the teaching authority of the church. Factions may argue about things that are not part of the deposit of faith, but dogmas and scripture are infallible, meaning they can not be changed or disputed. Me: This particular teaching is questionable to me, as it’s not explicitly taught in Gods word, as I can see. It seems like it was interpreted by a priest and put into practice. Priest: Where does it say that Gods revaled truth comes to us only in the bible? Does it say that in the bible? Me: Two answers to this.. Yes, in that God’s word is the source of Truth. Men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. John says that Revelation is the end and let no one add or subtract. I realize this is highly contested but it does make sense to me. No, in that God is also revealed as the still, small voice inside us… or conscience, one could argue. I would say that even that, though, is an echo of sorts from the word through time. If anything, Gods word is being perverted/ diluted as the power of Satan manifests more in the world in the birthing pains to the end. I think one of the most dangerous places to be is to think our thoughts, or those of any mere man, are Gods thoughts/ will. I’ve seen the pathology that can produce. I also think another dangerous place to be is to claim one ever has the fullness of truth. That is, to put God in a box and say… Here it is, I know it all. Pride comes before the fall. It is far better to keep one’s heart open… to further ‘revelation’ of the truth. Like me, I’ve learned that many Lutherans misinterpret Gods word; that was revealed in my study of Gods word and meditation and experience. I’ve also seen that Catholics have mis-stepped, as you yourself admitted in our podcast. During the time of the reformation, for instance, forgiveness was being sold, monetarily, in the form of indulgences. There’s a difference between what God inspired through the prophets and established in the canon of scripture and having new understandings of that scripture as one moves along in their walk of faith. This is a big part of ‘wrestling with God’. That, and simply making our beliefs congruent with our actions. Priest: (No response) I added one more point from Mary’s song (God, my SAVIOR - showing her own admission to needing to be saved) I may have upset the priest when I called it idol worship. He called me ignorant and didn’t wanna talk about it anymore. Funny, I think he was projecting his own insecurity onto me when he called me ignorant; easier for him to stay ignorant to the truth when presented with clear evidence than to pop the bubble he’s constructed for himself; we don’t always want to give up the narrative we’ve been telling ourselves or the whole house of cards comes tumbling down. Sandals dusted; I tried.

She's the new Asherah

yeah, this made me more skeptical of Bergsma. i will never understand this blasphemous catholic obsession with Mary.

The book of Revelation I don't accept as part of the canon of Scripture. I'm in agreement with Luther when he said that he couldn't detect that the book had been inspired by the Holy Spirit. One shouldn't base Christian doctrine on what the book says. It's open to a multitude of conflicting interpretations. And the threat at the end of the book that one won't inherit eternal life (22:19) if one rejects it I regard as false. The book wasn't universally accepted as being part of the canon in the early church. It was disputed with many rejecting it as Scripture. So I don't accept that Mary is the Queen of heaven because such a belief has no foundation in what is actually inspired Scripture. There's no Scriptural basis for believing that Mary was assumed bodily into heaven and stands at the side of Christ as the Queen of heaven. This is just idolatrous nonsense. We shouldn't pray to her or expect her to be aware of what is happening down here on the earth. She's simply in the company of other deceased Christians waiting for the resurrection of the dead at the end of the world.