I built a funky Echo Knight a few years ago. They were all about combining melee and ranged, and making as many attacks as possible. What made it really work was the Dancing Greatsword and Gauntlets of Ogre Power. 20 Con, 18 or 20 Dex, 19 Str (gauntlets), decent mental stats, Archery or Defense Fighting Style. Send Echo up into melee. Bonus action to send the Dancing Greatsword to join the Echo and attack. Make attacks with a longbow from range, then switch to a melee weapon of your choice and Unleash Incarnation. At lv11, you can make 5 attacks per turn, 9 if you Action Surge.
I just loved this build, its just amazing! While you're helping the party with the owl administering potions of fly and bless (without the need of concentration!) and giving the cleric/wizard/sorcerer a mind sharpener AND giving a party member a tattoo that can have spells like healing word, hex, hunters mark, faerie fire, and even find familiar AND have an echo that can switch places for incredible battle possitioning, you still is super effective out of battle casting guidance and having a familiar that can scout places for you, and dont even mentioning the potions and the tattoos that can be very handy out of battle too! You made my perception wider in regards of thinking only in damage and stuff, now i want to make characters that are good in a colaborative way of thinking, thanks a lot Bilbron! Sorry for my rusty english, its not my first language, but i tried :p
Also props for skimming over 9-20 so I don't have to quit watching halfway through! So much optimising thought is given to these leveles despite the fact most people don't play them.
The synergy in this build is absolutely gorgeous, that Artificer dip certainly is excellent. I'm already inspired to do something very similar with one of my own characters.
I think that was the best build yet. The synergy is crazy on that one. Gotta say i'd keep my Con at 14 to get a 14 Int, Fairy Fire is great, but not so much if my DC is depending upon my 13 Intelligence.
@@NobodyDungeons i feel you. The defensive synergy is great on this one, although i'd build it differently. But at T3 your damage simply doesn't deep up anymore. It's the typical Bilbron build with over the top defense and low damage, except it's not a caster so your non-damage contributions aren't enough. It's still playable at Tier 2, though
I have an idea for an echo knight warlock character. It's a warlock that has magic tattoos that are like summoning circles, and the echo is actually the vessel of the patron to help the character.
A ranged Damphir Echo Knight might be fun. Spider Climb does not require the use of hands, so you can position yourself on the ceiling, on a wall, on the side of a tree, or almost anywhere. This creates a 3D tactical advantage in many environments. If you are faced with casters or other ranged opponents, you can move close to bite and regain hit points.
I've been playing as a a range based echo knight in my current campaign and love it, it's everything I wanted but didn't get from the rogue class. I'm currently at lvl4 and use a longbow for my attacks and switch to a rapier for either the unleash incarnation or to avoid disadvantage when I'm attacking through the echo from close range. As I'm relatively newish to D&D there are some aspects I'm still learning, and up until recently I never gave a thought to how switching weapons works (my first campaign, I would state the wep I wanted to use rapier/longbow and my DM never questioned it), the other day I got in a panic thinking that swapping weapons would use up actions or bonus actions (which would completely negate shoot with bow, unleash incarnation with rapier), but you've explained it so well and I feel so much better now! on your next turn would switching back to the longbow essentially be the opposite? So IWO sheathe rapier/attack with bow, leaving your bonus action free?
This is one of my favorite builds you provided. Artificer is a great add for any xbow wielder. The simplicity of this build is what makes it so workable. I was trying to think of a situation to work in ritual caster as opposed to magic initiate but it doesn't work as elegantly. Was thinking a high elf (dark vision vs. Reliance on dancing lights) instead of human variant with minor illusion as free cantrip but it pushes sharpshooter back too far. You alluded to the fact that you default more often than not to ranged characters. I think instinctively you understand that ranged characters will more often than not offer better 1st turn utility vs. Melee. Whereas a melee character may spend a first turn simply attempting to close into melee range a ranged character has no such restriction. The terms of engagement offer huge advantage to ranged builds and I think that reflexively shows up in your builds. When you figure most encounters don't go much beyond 5 rounds losing any impact in one of 5 rounds by wasting it all on maneuvering initially into position is a huge inefficiency. The only slight tweak I would offer is switching magic initiate and sharpshooter order around. I think having access to minor illusion a familiar and a light source at lvl1 helps moreso than taking a minus 5 for 10 damage at lvls 1 thru 4. You don't need big damage as much as reliably being able to hit at the low levels.
There are a few problems with Magic Initiate. 1. Minor Illusion provides cover, but that does not mean you are *hidden* unless you used the Hide Action. Suspicion has nothing to do with it. The enemy knows your location unless you're hidden. 2. Unless you precast it before the battle in an ambush scenario, you still have to cast it in the first place which means the enemy still knows exactly where you are after you cast it even if we accept that it makes you hidden (which is not supported RAW). With these issues in mind, you are basically only getting Magic Initiate for Find Familiar and Dancing Lights (which is of limited value). Overall, I'm not sure this feat is a good pick. I, unfortunately, have to be "that guy" again and say you are better off bumping DEX.
1. What does it matter if they know that you're standing inside a "steel crate"? Sane combatants don't typically attack positions of total cover, hoping to break their arrows or whatever, only to be surprised when they pass through an illusion. Unless they suspect that it's an illusion, which they would if they saw arrows flying through it, but with the Echo, they won't see that. 2. Yes. It's the illusion of total cover. It's not concealment or meant to hide your position. It's meant to convince enemies that there is no point in attacking you. 3. Find Familiar is the whole key to making the Alchemist dip work with synergistic action economy.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons Ah, I see. In that case, I would say that the issue is that your interpretation of Minor Illusion is *extremely* generous. Basically, you're giving a cantrip the power to make you invulnerable as long as you don't visibly attack through the illusion. That seems like a bit much to me. Regarding the Find Familiar pick, my apologies. I did not finish watching the video yet, thus my argument was unfounded.
@@kronosDking The cantrip, by itself, doesn't make you invulnerable. Attacking from inside of it would instantly ruin it, after all. And it's immobile. It's the COMBO with the Echo that makes it particularly nasty. Which is the point of a combo, IMO. Nor is it intended to confer total invulnerability. If enemies can interact with the illusion, or successfully Perceive something that causes them to use an action to perform an Investigation check, then they can penetrate it. But otherwise, RAW, they can't, IMO. As I see it, you basically have to confer immunity to illusions to the enemies to deviate from the RAW. Which you can do, of course, if you think it's OP.
As long as you create the image in a place that enemies can't see, sure. This works as claimed. If you're trying to do it in view of enemies though, RAW (+ further clarified by a tweet from Crawford) you stepping into it would drop the illusion for anyone who sees you do it. Plus, to what extent an enemy who watches you conjure a crate assumes it's real vs illusory? That has no RAW. It is going to depend on how your specific DM roleplays each specific enemy (I'd only let this fly for low-level beasts and anyone that's never seen magic.) I agree that Magic Initiate is not worth it here. Dancing Lights + this fringe combo is not worth a feat, and the spellwrought tattoo infusion you took already works for Find Familiar. You talked about how great Faerie Fire is, but leaving your spell DC at 9+prof for the entire game makes the odds of success never worth the action to cast it. I'd at the very least dump Magic Initiate and take Fae Touched. 14 INT + Misty Step alone would be great, but HEX is available here, and it's great on this character.
@@justinLooper You don't have to step THROUGH the illusion, you step INTO it because you left an open side. I feel like these things should be obvious, but I do understand that some players/DMs/tables hate illusions and don't want to let them work RAW. Folks, enemies assume they're real because that's how illusions work RAW. They are considered real until interacted with, or suspicion arouses an Action to make an Investigate check. The only arguments against this proposition have been: 1. Enemies would still know your position (irrelevent to the strategy) 2. Enemies would see you step into the illusion (irrelevant to any non-stupid tactics) 3. Enemies are too crafty to believe an illusion that just created cover out of nowhere (a ridiculous argument in a world full of spells that create instant effects, and if played consistently instead of just trying to nerf illusions, would result in the enemies "disbelieving" in every actual Wall of Fire or Cloudkill and I guess try to interact with them) 4. It's too OP for a cantrip (an opinion that is irrelevent to the RAW). If that's all you've got, then I'm not too worried. The only valid point so far has been: 5. If the DM hates illusions and refuses to follow the RAW, then the strategy won't work. Which is certainly true. The DM can do whatever he likes. For my videos, however, I use the RAW.
The teleportation is basically equal to a dash, create the echo 15 feet away, then next turn move it 30 feet for free then teleport, within itself is 45 feet then use remaining 5 movement making it 60, exactly what a dash with 30’ movement would be except you pretty much don’t need to worry about OA’s which is nuts
great video... I'm about to play a Lizardman fighter and decided on Echo night as my subclass and was looking for a spell casting option for a dip and had not consider Artificer
RAW you can only administer alchemist potions to incapacitated creatures. I'm sure most DM's would still let you do this but technically not in the rules
I know I'm late to the discussion, but now that Tasha's is out, I would strongly consider "Eldritch Adept" at 4th level to pickup the "Misty Visions" invocation to cast Silent Image at will. I'd use it like the smoke screen Bilbron mentioned in his Bowstinger build. This should also be a reliable source of advantage. Maybe even take the Protector Aasimar race, move the +2 to DEX, and the +1 to CON. At third level, this character would pop with new abilities. Fly speed and the Echo, with a strong light vs. shadow theme. 4th level, have the Echo causing the enemy issues on the ground while you fly up, obscure yourself with illusions, and start raining arrows.
To be honest I think a build like this is more geared towards low-op tables. I’m not a DPR absolutist, but I do subscribe to the idea of the Warlock baseline by Treantmonk. That is to say, if the only thing you can contribute to the fight is damage, then your damage needs to at a minimum exceed Hex + Eldritch Blast from an equivalent level Warlock, at least for most of the levels. This build falls behind past lvl 5ish, and is tremenously behind after lvl 11, and the only thing it really contributes outside of damage is Faerie Fire 3x per day, but at an extremely low DC. Also IMO a better way to utilize an Artificer dip on a Fighter is Heavy Armor + Shield + Repeating Shot Hand Crossbow + Enhanced Defense, with CBE+SS. At least this way you can leverage Repeating Shot into the ability to use a shield for 21 base AC, and still enjoy all the advantages of a ranged weapon (maybe flavor it as an arcane pistol or some such). Depending on progression/stats/starting level, you can even consider going Battlesmith for INT weapon attack and Shield spell for 26 AC, and leverage the INT stat into Wizard levels with max spell DC, in which case you’re sacrficing DPR for actual alternate win-conditions via spellcasting.
Yes I agree with your points. What is strange is all the analytics done to point out the optimization points then the build ignores that and makes what interests him. I think he needs to think on his audience and " Powergamers tactics" and what legacy he presents to people later searching for an effective build. I'll be blunt this build is pretty poor a: sad EK. To make effective builds they need a context. He has a great experience on playing a Wizzard Bilbron. If he thought what's the most effective Echo Knight build that he could make that Bilbron would want at his side to win against Sauron... that's the build we should see, bet it's different to this one.
@@bisonbob9092 I feel like there’s just a big disconnect on what is considered good between optimizers and casual players. I think this build is fine in a normie campaign, because at least it has Archery + SS and the stats are in the right places. The cognitive dissonance comes from the fact that the channel is billed as “Powergamers Tactics”, not “Interesting Casual Builds”. Imagine a newbie player who watched this video and decided to run this build in an actual campaign next to an optimized fighter - he’s going to be in for a rude awakening.
How does a build that starts with SS at level 1 in a archetype that can't use CE effectively fall behind on DPR by level 5? The issue of BA clog is endemic to all EKs, but you take a BA attack feat anyway? And then use it for a d6 weapon and shield instead of a d10 weapon while complaining about insufficient damage? I mean, you do you, but the synergy is bad, IMO. I understand that some people are fascinated with DPR but I don't get this argument at all. Battlesmith causes BA clog, and Shield isn't worth one of my 3 slots when the playstyle calls for leveraging cover/distance to avoid being attacked (meaning Shield will only help me in a small % of 1,000 battles). I prefer better action economy and resource management, personally.
@@M0ebius Opinion noted! I agree entirely that there's a difference between good optimizers and casual players. Today's video will offer some of my opinions in that regard, lol. Sorry you didn't like the build! But if you expect to see Spike builds that already exist in 50 iterations on-line, you've come to the wrong channel. I actually went through a whole iteration of the build that went straight EK, but ultimately I thought it was boring and lacked the elegant Jonny synergies that people come to my channel for.
I do appreciate all feedback though. If everyone agreed on these things, builds would get mighty boring! And, due to experience, I'm always happy to play with my "suboptimal" builds, as opinions get tested in battle, and I'm happy to see whose opinion prevails (even "make it a little interesting", if one is willing to put their money where their mouth is 😉).
I started thinking that the dip in artificer might better be served by taking cantrip boomingblade rather than thornwhip (I don't see very often using thornwhip instead of a ranged attack petsonally). If you infuse a handcrossbow rather than a heavy you can have rapier in one hand and handcrossbow* in the other. Further, if you take warcaster (I think your reaction AoO comes from the shadow unless it is ruled that BB is generated from self and not echo**) you should be able to BB from the echo using the rapier if enemy moves away from echo. The extra BB reaction attack would definitely shore up some of the critiques around DPR vs. Warlock eldritch blast baseline. * Understanding a slight dip in DPR d6 v d10. ** Definitely see how your DM rules on warcaster BB and echo reaction attack.
If your fine with loosing the second use of action surge you could go one more level into artificer to get the ASI for either a feat of your choice or the +2.
Found this channel from this video. Very interesting build; not necessarily with the highest DPR, but DPR videos are abound anyway. I do have one question; some resource of this build is... how to put it... short lived. Find Familiar is basically a once a day casting for this build and once the familiar was gutted by a stray arrow, some of the Echo built capabilities is also gutted. The low DC on artificer spells also feel like a problem and has very high probability of a waste of a spell slot instead. What to do on those situation, where you're inevitably becomes much less effective? Though now that I typed it, I guess the whole packages are only support abilities for the Manifest Echo itself, so worst comes to worse you still have your echo. But I can't help but feel like they support abilities are.... lukewarm. Regardless, still a very interesting video and idea! It's really fresh looking at an optimized build that explores unusual combination.
I’m making a build right now using a simic hybrid, especially nice with the glide and the ability to send your echo into the air and then switch teleporting them to get a kind of flight. I’m really not sure on how gliding works RAW though, does it count as falling, in which case you’d reach the ground instantly and travel the full 90ft, which is way outside of your movement range, and so we get a massive increase to our already insane mobility. Or does the glide count as movement in which case you’d only fall 15ft per round so you travel 30 ft. (would be weird if characters that could run faster, fell faster). In which case though you can stay in the air forever by moving the echo round and teleporting to it, which would be 45ft in 2 rounds vertical movement (I think, kind of convoluted lol) while still being able to use the 75ft horizontal you’d normally get. Both are spamming bonus actions for this and likely end up in non optimal positions for our echo
I made a similar build but I dip into peace domain cleric. I have a pet mouse on me that I share the buff with so I always have a boost and I have bless running.
Interesting build, I like the idea of incorporating magic initiate into the build for a bit of battlefield control, but I just don't jive with the Artificer dip. Helping out the wizard is awesome and so is repeating shot, but I don't like the unreliability of alchemist and I feel setting up things like faerie fire should be left to the spellcasters because that's an action you're not shooting at the enemies and your save DC isn't really great anyways.
The chief two items folks seem to be disputing are your interpretation/use Minor Illusion and a familiar gained through Find Familiar. Illusions are frequently disputed at game tables and this has been covered well in comments already. While your use of familiars is interesting there will be few, if any, games where even RAW view DMs will allow creatures without hands to take the Use Object action with the ease you would like. While RAW may not state that hands are required for a Use Object action RAW does establish hands/open hands/free hands are often a consideration for Actions involving objects (e.g. weapons, somatic/material components) and RAW state very clearly that the DM makes final determination of the limitations of any desired action(s). The DM is free to allow, disallow, or even set a roll requirement for any given action. Interpreting RAW with this degree of literalism is somewhat extreme. Good luck, but know that there is no winning in RPGs. If you want to use potions with a familiar as described you have to courses of action in any reasonable gameplay scenario: the Octopus or a Warlock. An Octopus (resorting to real world physics as this string seems to like to call it) is capable of unscrewing jars, lids, removing stoppers and manipulating flasks and bottles commonly associated with D&D potions. Though a DM is free to make the familiar roll a check or have it take more than one action you can reasonably prove an Octopus (or most cephalopods) are capable of this action. Combine that with the fact that familiars are not real beasts (non-sentient) but instead sentient spirits in the form of a beast and there are few DMs that would not at least consider the idea. Literal 'hands or no deal' DMs could be appeased with a Pact of the Chain accessed familiar, owing to the alternate form options (i.e. Imp, Quasit, Pseudodragon, Sprite) all of which have little hands. I realize that takes levels away from your build concept and you view warlock dips as a meme, but there it is. RAW beasts have actions so they get to use potions? Strange hill to die on, but OK. The Beast Masters will love having their animals do this. Or better yet, equip them with weapons that don't have Ammunition, Loading, or Two-Handed requirements. Imagine the mayhem Flock of Familiars could wreak if you equip them with nets (e.g. Great horned owls with Flyby dropping nets on the opponents). It is a game. Remember to just have fun :)
Thanks for the lengthy comment! 1. in regards to Minor Illusion, I really don't see the controversy. The spell says they believe it unless they interact or make an Investigation check, and people don't attack steel crates because they believe it will be useless, and it's not ambiguous at all. If folks don't want it to work that way becuase they view it as OP, and choose to nerf it with a strange interpretation of how illusions are SUPPOSED to work, that's their prerogative, but IMO they should own it and not just insist the RAW aren't completely clear on this issue. 2. Owls and bats can grasp tiny branches and hang on them, so again, I feel it's pretty strained to insist that they can't manipulate vials, or pop corks with their beak/teeth. Familiars are very capable for beasts, and trained beasts can do pretty simple things like this. Again, I don't see the controversy RAW. The true issue is that, as with Minor Illusion, people think this is OP. Which is fine... nerf it via homebrew if you like. Just own it and stop with the strained interpretations please! On either of these issues, in any actual game scenario I would adapt to whatever interpretation the DM likes. But when I do builds and such for the channel, I use the RAW, and people's opinions about IRL physics or whatever to me aren't suitable for coverage outside of pointing out that DMs can homebrew whatever they like.
Fun synergy, but I am struggling to see the use of faerie fire and thorn whip. I can see the usefulness of faerie fire on mobs to help the party clean them up quickly, but when is a low DC thorn whip a better option than shooting two bolts?
2 things about this build that I question: This one depends on party composition. 1. If the fighter is very difficult to high why bother trying? I would just go after the squishy wizard or cleric so there is no healer. 2. How effective will Faerie Fire be with a poor spell save DC? Especially if your leaving two sharpshooting attacks on the table, you could potentially be forfeiting 40dpr for a potential to land a level 1 spell?
1. He's a backline ranged attacker. If your party is depending on him to tank, you've got some fundamental issues to work out, lol. And it's not my problem if the other characters neglect to make themselves hard to hit... the idea that I should be easy to kill so no one else gets killed is very weird to me. 2. Not very, maybe 50-60% chance, depending. You can cast it opportunistically if you really need it, but you should be using your spell slots on Experimental Elixers.
I have to ask this, because I saw your reddit comment that this build was made at around the time of posting the prior video, what's your opinion on that aggressive Echo Knight/Hex Blade build I shared? It's more melee focused, but because you have two Eldritch Invocations at level 3 Warlock you can have Devil's Sight + Grasp of Hadar so you get the enemy closer to you and the party should range be needed.
My thoughts are that when Hexblade dip is a meme, then it's a Spike strategy that I'm uninterested in. I will never incorporate a Hexblade dip into any of my builds, because there are plenty of builds for that out there already. I don't really do common strategies. But it certainly looked strong enough!
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons I take it you call the Hexblade dip a meme because it's so common to the point where it's become a meta joke in discussions about "powerful builds"? That's fair. I am curious, have you considered doing a near immortal self-heal build? There's some amazing shenanigans begging to be pulled via a 3 level dip into Celestial Warlock Pact of the Chain + Gift of the Ever-Living Ones but I've never seen someone use it to great effect.
@@empoleonmaster6709 Man, someone showed me this hilarious Treantmonk meme on that, but I can't find it. I haven't really thought about that, no... it sounds interesting, though! I'm sure I'll get to it eventually.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons As a REALLY memey and bad example of the tankiness of a Celestial Warlock dip, there is a fairly ok build for exactly TWO levels, 5 and 6 (damage output of enemies beyond those levels outpaces the healing). What you do is you take Fighter for 1-2 levels for armor + shield prof, Defensive Fighting Style, and Second Wind, then you take 3 levels in Celestial Warlock Pact of the Chain and Gift of the Ever-Living Ones. This "works" (in the loosest sense of the word) by abusing the Healing Light ability and Cure Wounds on yourself which allows you to tank about 50+ or so damage each long rest, but remember, at least 34 of that is from using your action to cast Cure Wounds on yourself for 18+ health as a full action. I played this a few times as a melee focused fighter, paying no attention to racial bonuses, and it was surprisingly....not shit because it could do at least two rounds of pure attacking before casting Cure Wounds to instantly recover around 1/3+ of its health. PS. Are you going to try that method Spiffing Brit discovered to bring more attention to your channel? He just posted a video on a way to get a stupidly large amount of attention to literally any youtube channel that posts a community poll and comments in it.
Just out of curiosity, could you still make this a Frontline fighter build, im still new to d&d so correct me if im wrong but say your playing the range game and your group needed an extra Frontline to deal with multiple enemies could you pull out the rapier and then fight with your echo in the front? Ik the build it centered more for range but just wondering.
Can I make a suggestion - The Biberon on the thumbnail and title was offputting to me as I forgot that was your name and assumed it was some module I'd never heard of.
iirc, elixirs can't be administered by another creature unless the target is incapacitated. if the target isn't incapacitated, they have to drink it themselves. imo this makes the alchemist dip useless. i would've rather you went the more offensive route and added options to boost dmg to remove enemies off the board. the best defense is a dead enemy.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons either way, i do appreciate though how creative you are in trying to find a use for the much maligned alchemist. i'm checking out your chemlock now.
Agreed for 5E, ranged is superior on all accounts. You get to add modifiers to your damage unlike basic-3,5 and you have no penalty for attack enemies adjacent to your companions. What's not to like
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 14:46 You are EK 8 / Art 3 where you choose Lucky feat, then you say at Level 12 you take Indomitable (but your class levels are only 9/3). I am confused as to how you are taken higher level class features when the individual classes are much lower. So from PHB Chapter 6 "When you gain a new level in a class, you get its features for that level." ... So at 9/3 you would only get class features and ability score increases for being L9 EK and L3 A ... Not L12 (which would be your total class level) ... right?
Just checking this build is for power gamers? For an Echo Knight fighter. "Can now keep familiar in a back pack for potion application" - OK ... I must be unique and live in a culture where the DM's are immune to this BS. Owls, Bats, are very small, have no opposable thumbs, to manipulate carry or apply things in an action. However, the pact of the chain Warlock can get an Imp which could do this but that is 3 levels of investment not a magic feat, your DM is effectively allowing you to have the benefits of a pact of the chain familiar with out paying for it. Is that fair. I guess you can propagate that Familiars can pull off the fantastical cos its a fantasy game, but really unless there is some underlying reality for the game it gets pretty silly and I suggest your DM is letting you get away with a nonsense. This build features delivering and administering Artificer potions via an Owl or Bat to party members during combat that's I suggest crazy stuff unique to some tables. Minor Illusion can in theory offer some mechanical advantages if the DM goes along, but auto cover, when ever you want ..... I live in a culture where the DM's are immune to wheezes, just cos I cast a minor illusion and really want a game impacting effect every time ... your a fighter and you just spent an action pissing an illusion. Its a cantrip DM's typically don't let you abuse it's power, especially in combat when you were in sight and there wasn't a barrel / steel barrier before you performed the illusion. Heaps of the fighter classes are suitable for ranged. Oh no the Echo Knight is not really the one to explore this with, it's features you explained in your previous vid analysis align best with melee. This is a power gamer Fighter Build? Forget wasting your first action with a bullshit spell, just crack heads and if necessary take a hit so someone else doesn't. - Magic Initiate .. what, - no - just try Alert feat - go first and crack head. In this game damage upfront is worth more than damage in later turns. Especially fighter, wack wack wack wack - or use your action to cast minor illusion so next turn you maybe have some cover? Casters are awesome ... your an Echo Knight. Given the classes chosen in a power gamers party they are meant to synergize for the maximum effect. A Fighter using an action to cast Fairy Fire with a poor DC is an effective use of an action? Your assumption that this is a reliable way to give everyone advantage, in your dreams, to see this actually work as well as you imply with your low casting DC it may work against non threats not against the nasty stuff. You seem to want to build characters that want to be a one man army and do jack of all trades. To be quite frank the Class Dip you feature and the exciting spells add ^&&*-all power to playing levels 11 - 20. By choosing to reinforce your prejudices of must have: spells, cover defense and ranged Kiting, you seemed to have missed that the Echo Knight is an amazing unique class that gives you the opportunity to explore MELEE, - KITE MELEE. No other class can do this, this is such a joy for a jaded fighter player unfortunately your build just burned that. I am sorry my comments are on the negative side, I really appreciate your thoughts ideas and presentations. What I'm really trying to say is that DND allows for a play style of being an effective meat shield taking a bash and dishing out a bash and trying to make every build a spell: wizzard / ranged kiter is disappointing. DND gave us a unique Melee Kiter and that needed to be celebrated in my view. People are going to look at this channel for build advice for a power gamers Echo Knight. Is this the best you can do? I suggest for future builds they need a purpose (not just a party of one build) imagine they are in your party with Bilbron, as a player would you get annoyed the fighter is pissing on your familiar gambits? Built around an Artificer element that gives you something that uses up a one of three attunement slots at later levels is a situational benefit at most, are you giving up your Mizzium Device? Can you re-do the Echo Knight build as you would want it in your current party? Is this it or would it be different? That gives context to the build. I suggest that is what we want and crave from you is your awesome analysis and presentation. Thanks hopping this is useful feedback and not just a brussel sprout . best wishes for your entertaining channel.
Owls and bats can grab tiny branches and prey, but not little vials? GTFO. Plus, you're also injecting IRL physics into the game rules, which are that 1. creatures have actions, and 2. it takes an action to apply a potion to another person. FULL STOP. Those are the RAW... your opinions about physics or game balance are irrelevant (and wrong, as I just pointed out). I can see you guys have a problem with the RAW. Fine, whatever... run your game as you like! But to expect others to deviate from the RAW because of your opinion is rather solipsistic. Furthermore, perhaps I didn't make it clear, but I don't do Spike strategies here. There are plenty of places you can go to if you want the typical Halberd/GWM/Sentinel EK with a Barbarian dip build. I try to offer Jonny strategies at this channel. Then, you claim that this build is intended to be a one man army, despite giving one of my infusions to the party wizard? I see. Finally, I'm not the sort who complains that others "aren't playing their characters right". I'm more about adapting and overcoming. I appreciate your feedback! I hope you don't take it personally that I logically evaluate all feedback, and reject it when it's misplaced or inserts opinions over the RAW.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons I don't have problems with the RAW. Re: the RAW and the Familiar (lets say a bat) uses an action to pick up and carry a potion, open it and apply it to a comrade: I assume you are referring to RAW as written on page 193 of the players hand book, top box Text headed Improvising an Action ".....When you describe an action not detailed elsewhere in the rules, the DM tells you whether the action is possible and what kind of roll you need to make, if any, to determine success or failure." So according to RAW the Bat's and it's ability to perform the action you desire is not automatic after all, the DM tells whether it is possible and reasonable or roll for it. But to expect others to deviate from the RAW because of your opinion is rather solipsistic.
@@bisonbob9092 Applying potions is already covered in the RAW. Familiars are creatures, creatures have actions, and one can use an action to apply a potion. Sure, the DM can always deviate. I actually try to call these things out when there is ambiguity. Here, there is none, just some people inserting opinions about IRL physics (as they perceive them) into a game of simplified rules.
@@M0ebius I may do them next, actually. I thought it was cool to make the last one use a Heavy X-bow, which was a little bit different than the ubiquitous Hand X-bow. AA seems like a longbow user, at first glance.
