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Optimized Echo Knight - Deep Dive Series - D&D 5e 

Bilbrons & Dragons
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17 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 134   
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Missed a few spells that affect objects: Meteor Swarm, Chain Lightning, Control Water, Crown of Stars, Thunderwave, and Fire Storm! My bad.
@biggshoverwelder3690
@biggshoverwelder3690 2 года назад
8:11 Very informative i was watching this learning what classes would be good to mufti class with, when i noticed the last part, does that mean if i take pole arm master and sentinel my echo cannot stop someone moving around them to get to someone else or is that if my echo tries to move?
@biggshoverwelder3690
@biggshoverwelder3690 2 года назад
Also was considering either an Armorer Artificer or Oath of Vengeance paladin multi-class build with echo knight.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 2 года назад
@@biggshoverwelder3690 You can't use Reaction Attacks through the Echo.
@gunnarkilborn3915
@gunnarkilborn3915 Год назад
@@Hillgrov It makes it more likely for you to get an attack of opportunity.
@drawberry_jam
@drawberry_jam Год назад
@@Hillgrov Free advantage for "unseen attackers." If you are behind full cover and cannot be seen, if you then attack an enemy through your echo you gain advantage and thus get sneak attack.
@PackTactics
@PackTactics 3 года назад
Thank you! I will do a shout out back in my next vid! Also Echo Knight is the best fighter in the game, broken to all hell if you know what your doing.
@Razdasoldier
@Razdasoldier 2 года назад
I agree with this decision however I think samurai is highly underrated and that battle master would have been if they didn't need the new maunevers from their UA version
@jonathanmartin8716
@jonathanmartin8716 Год назад
I love that this video came out when you were just a wittle kobold :) and that you were supporting each other. :) I'm just now making an Echo Knight so having all these videos to check out. :)
@demonderpz7937
@demonderpz7937 8 месяцев назад
you're*
@yitlerxyeezus
@yitlerxyeezus 8 месяцев назад
​@@demonderpz7937 2 years late. but never too late to be a grammar nazi
@brennennestvogel3983
@brennennestvogel3983 3 года назад
A changeling echo fighter with levels in trickery domain cleric could be interesting and funny. If the person you're impersonating walks in the room, call them an imposter and have the echo walk into the room and call both of you imposters. Then, have your duplicate walk into the room and call all the others imposters. Everyone is going to be so confused. Proficiency in performance to throw your voice is probably necessary. Sadly requires concentration, but it is hilarious if it works. Edit: They also get mirror image for more battlefield shenanigans. Just send in the three duplicates and your echo to fight; they can't guess correctly.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
The Echo isn't an exact duplicate, though. It's "a magical, translucent, gray image of you."
@MW-om4tb
@MW-om4tb Год назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons still would be funny with a dm who rules it as a mirrored copy
@empoleonmaster6709
@empoleonmaster6709 3 года назад
For your build video I have to mention one of the most absolutely EVIL things I saw in a game using the Echo Knight. For context this was in a PVP arena in an empty Roman coliseum that was free reign ie you could go inside the building, where everyone was level 7, and something that nearly won, was a Half Orc (pre TCE) Echo Knight 3 level 4 Hex Blade, pact of the Blade that had Darkness and Devil's Sight, using a war pick. It might seem MAD, but at its core it only needed CHA and CON because of armor proficiency and it used CHA for melee attack damage since the war pick is the weapon that deals the most damage while using only one hand. This player hunted down and killed over half the players because there was so little anyone could do against it; he'd get an attack in and teleport back to his echo that while technically within 30 ft of him, was NOT within 30 of movement to him due to hallways etc. so he always had positional advantage on top of being in near constant Magical Darkness only he could see through. The only reason he DIDN'T win was because everyone else including me (I was playing a Wizard) teamed together at the last minute to defeat them as he was THAT OP in comparison to everything else built by other min-maxers.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Nice! A "maze" setup offers the ME Teleport an AMAZING advantage. Throw on Darkness/DS and that sounds really beastly. I'm trying to keep these builds fairly pure, though. I definitely want more levels from the class under review than any other, and ideally just a 1-3 level dip at most. But yeah, EK 3 is a fantastic add to another main build.
@empoleonmaster6709
@empoleonmaster6709 3 года назад
​@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons I just found the document with this EVIL build (I had to reverse engineer 95% of the character sheet to figure out how to defeat it) it turns out the the Hex Blade was the level 3 dip, and it was a level 9 arena, so the split was 6 levels EK, 3 levels Hex Blade as that's all he needed to get maximum damage from the build. The build was INSANE, I forgot to mention....you couldn't out range him because he had EB and would snipe you. No matter where you were, the build ALWAYS had some advantage over you. I tried casting Wall of Fire on him in a ring....he promptly had the echo fly over it, and teleport safely to the other side. Regarding the actual build here's a copy and paste of this build that was made by PVP Satan: Race Half Orc TOTAL HP 78 AC 17 or 19 16 Str +3 16 Con +3 14 Dex +2 8 Int -1 10 Wis +0 18 Cha +4 Weapon Warpick +4 damage via pact weapon Fighter Defense fighting style War Caster Feat to make sure Darkness never went down, due to the fact that he had 16 CON and proficiency in CON saves it went down once before he died. If this thing took the combined efforts of 3 different player characters to take down I can only imagine what it's like for a DM to deal with.
@lightning2034
@lightning2034 3 года назад
did he cast Darkness on himself? and how did he teleport with his darkness?
@empoleonmaster6709
@empoleonmaster6709 3 года назад
@@lightning2034 I think he cast Darkness on either himself or his sword. It was over a year ago now.
@Dave004
@Dave004 2 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons curious would you count a hexblade/echo knight using darkness and dark vision but instead the EK being in darkness (similar to above) but the Echo attacking having advantage? Or because the Echo itself is not in darkness would that negate the advantage despite the attack coming from the EK?
@CalebHoss37804
@CalebHoss37804 3 года назад
I’m multiclassing as an Ancestral Guardian Barbarian and Echoknight. Since the Echo has its own AC, it’s not me. So the tank ability where if I hit the enemy, I impose disadvantage on if it attacks anything other than me. That includes my echo. Also, if I use my Action Surge I can get 6 attacks in one turn. 2 with extra attack, then “whenever you take the attack action” you can attack with your echo, and it doesn’t even use a bonus’s action… then ACTION SURGE! Now I’ve got another attack action, which means another extra attack, and since I took the attack action again I can attack with my echo again. Oh did I mention I could do reckless and it’d all be with advantage? Amazing. Amazing.
@blairbrook1336
@blairbrook1336 3 года назад
Just dip gloom stalker to get two more on the first turn
@nomadicwolf6132
@nomadicwolf6132 2 года назад
Wow... by fat the best Echo Knight breakdown I've seen. Extremely efficient & concise!
@daithi1966
@daithi1966 3 года назад
Multiclass with a Bladesinger that takes an Echo Knight-3 dip and you're a gish wizard teleporting all over the place. The same with a Hexblade Warlock although in this case the Hexblade is probably the dip since Eldritch Blast scales with character level.
@DANTVSVERGIL
@DANTVSVERGIL Год назад
The Bladesinger/Echo Knight is a lot of fun. I just flavored all of her stuff as just moving really quickly, sorta Flash like. Did the same with the teleportation spells that I took for her.
@jinxtheunluckypony
@jinxtheunluckypony 3 года назад
Not super important but the Echoes teleport has some fun synergy with the Simic Hybrid’s Manta Glide ability. If you leave your Echo in the air then when you teleport and start falling you can move yourself an additional 2 feet horizontally for every foot you fall. This is complete overkill in most situations but it’s still a fun trick you can try out.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Nice, love that one!
@vision2297
@vision2297 3 года назад
Good catch 😀
@personman8734
@personman8734 2 года назад
If you really abuse this you can get high as hell and create your echo 30 feet above before you hit the ground and effectively fly
@M0ebius
@M0ebius 3 года назад
I think the issue with an Echo Archer with longbow is that in actual play, if you start the fight from distance, with 600ft range (+sharpshooter) kiting is not an issue. In close-quarters, the echo is more or less useless. So the strategy of teleporting and kiting only works in a certain sweet spot in terms of range. And even in the ideal range, since it requires one turn to summon the echo and another turn to teleport, it’s rather slow, and once you get out of range the echo is once again useless and you’re just fighting as a vanilla fighter. A melee echo knight with the appropriate feats on the other hand can use the Echo proactively for both offense and defense, dish damage and soak up attacks. And regarding your commentary on this strategy, when an enemy destroy your echo and bee-line straight towards you, that’s not a weakness but rather a win! The whole point of being a melee fighter is you WANT to be the one being attacked, and if you can force the enemy to waste an attack to do so, all the better. I feel like you’re stuck in a wizard mindset when analyzing martials.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
The context of those comments was, as mentioned, "this is a strong approach, a Spike approach, but I need a Jonny approach for the channel so let me try to find a different angle." It may be that you want them to attack the echo, but I felt compelled to point out that it's still a good tactic for the enemy to employ, and it's not very impressive to me as a defense (though sure, diverting one attack is better than no defense). I'm well aware of the tactical downsides of the kiting strategy, so I MAY have included a few things in my build that could address those ;-) We'll see tomorrow when I release the build video!
@M0ebius
@M0ebius 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons For the enemy it’s not just a good tactic to destroy the echo but in fact the only tactic, since they otherwise eat an opportunity attack and is either stuck in place with 0 movement on a hit, or next turn you just swap places and rinse-repeat on a miss. And in tier 1-2 oftentimes you’re effectively reducing the target’s damage output by 50-100%. Personally I think that’s pretty impressive for a martial, as not many subclasses have that kind of capability (assuming we’re comparing apples to apples).
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
@@M0ebius Indeed, very impressive! That's why there's so many iterations of this build running around out there, I'm sure. (though personally I might be willing to risk the OA for just straight pursuing the EK, if my AC is strong and I'm being attacked at disadvantage, I have allies for a bum rush, or if I've obscured the EK so he can't use his OAs... destroying it also means the EK has to use his BA to Manifest and can't Teleport that round, so creates an opening). But, I think it's not the only way to leverage the EK abilities. I actually really like the build that I came up with! Definitely curious as to what you think... already in the can and just waiting to release it this afternoon.
@M0ebius
@M0ebius 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons All those tactics are legit, but are basically the same tactics you’d apply against ALL fighters, EK or otherwise. But like I said before, if monsters are targetting the Fighter in heavy armor instead of the squishies, then you’re doing it right. The point about destroying the Echo basically forces the EK to burn another bonus action is also legit. But that’s exactly why I think Echo Knighy, as flashy as the subclass features are, is somewhat overrated by people who haven’t actually played it - teleporting around is slow, and when the Echo is not in play you’re basically a sub-optimal vanilla Fighter. And alot of how effective the Echo Knight is depends on how the DM plays against it when you play the subclass straight up. Compare this to the Battlemaster, who can leverage his resources precisely, and I think the BM is still the king despite the limited nature of the Superiority Dice. Of course the most optimal way to mitigate the Echo problem is to take PAM for a reliable secondary bonus action (and would also uniquely allow you to engage two targets at once and mix and match your attacks), but then you’re basically the same as every other optimized fighter, just that you took the feats in a different order.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
@@M0ebius Great take, I always like to look at how a build actually plays out round to round, considering action economy. It would be interesting to play in a one-shot just to get a feel for how it operates.
@M0ebius
@M0ebius 3 года назад
Regarding grappling with the Echo, I actually had a long discussion about it when it first came out and reached this conclusion on the RAW: Yes, you can grapple with the Echo given that it is both an attack and part of the Attack Action. However since the grappled condition states that “the condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler”, since the Echo Knight is technically the grappler and not the Echo, the grappled condition immediately ends unless the target is in the Echo Knight’s reach.
@jacobnavarro3675
@jacobnavarro3675 3 года назад
Well... if your quotation of the rules is correct... and you want to follow them to the letter... the grappled creature doesn't ever move in this scenario so the grapple should remain. Again, based solely on this quotation.
@M0ebius
@M0ebius 3 года назад
@@jacobnavarro3675 Yes the rules quoted are the exact words. It doesn’t say the grappled target has to move, but rather that the grappled creature has to be within the grappler’s reach.
@8684LYFE
@8684LYFE 3 года назад
While there are a couple of quality channels (which the rest of the comments have helpfully pointed out), there are so many channels/podcasts that do zero research or preparation, even when they are specifically discussing something mechanically heavy. It drives me nuts when some of them are clearly reading a class description for the first time in a subclass rating video, etc. I guess what I want to say is, I really appreciate the way you clearly research and present your opinions. Even when I disagree with anything you say, I know exactly where you're coming from since you break it down so well. Specific to this video - I think this is campaign dependent (since it depends on how the game world interacts with Echos), but I would be interested to see how much Echos, and to a bigger extend - Echo Avatars, can be used as a source of distraction. RAW, they are visibly different from a person (translucent and grey), but depending on how much people know about magic/echo knights in the world, it could be easy to mistake the echo as a real person using magic to try to hide. That is one area I can see the avatar potentially having some utility over familiars. It's hard to quantify though since this kind of interaction kind of sits outside the rules.
@nizham12345
@nizham12345 3 года назад
Thanks for the video and its a great teardown of the tech specs with some really to the point views and suggestions. I love to optimise but not at the expense of the character itself or the vision that I have in mind for my character. Im playing an Echo knight Archer in a sandbox campaign and I absolutely love it ... high dex with archery and concurrent archery themed magic items along with feats like sharpshooter make for a damage dealing beast with amazing mobility around the battlefield. The restrictions offer balance and force you to think creatively for which there is plenty of opportunity. Love my Echo knight to bits although he's only level 7 .. cant wait to see how far he goes !!
@M1_K3Y
@M1_K3Y 3 года назад
Hi, can you tell me a bit about how the archer mechanics are played out in your game, (pasting my question from the previous video): Hi Bilbron Baffletsone, and thank you for the kind welcome to the D&D 5e Powergamer’s Tactics Room. I have really been enjoying these deep dives and your insights to optimization. I am trying to understand the mind theatre and rules when attacking from the Manifest Echo. Does the Echo manifest with the same weapon as the Knight is wielding, and if the Knight changes weapons does this change for the Echo? If the Knight is equipped with a longbow, and takes the attack action from the Echo’s space, which is 5ft from the enemy - is an arrow flying out of the Echo, or is the Echo making an improvised melee attack with the bow, or a ranged attack (if so is there a penalty?). Same question for the attacks of opportunity. I will adjust my planned build to focus on melee but I was hoping I could create an echo with a re-skinned rapier to be in melee range and attack from the knights location with a bow. I might look into throwing weapons so I can attack from the ranged location or the Echo location using the same weapon type or commit to a single weapon and prioritize manifesting/ moving the echo to make the attacks instead of trying to split the difference.
@nizham12345
@nizham12345 3 года назад
@@M1_K3Y So the reason I wanted to build an echo archer was to use the creative mobility of the echo to gain tactical superiority. A dex build with archery style easily puts you at a +10 to hit at lower levels. Couple that with sharpshooter and you have a potent archer. So the way I understand it is that you always attack from the echos position for all normal cases. Hence if your using a bow the echo uses a bow. The unleash incarnation though says "unleash your echos fury to make a melee attack when you take the attack action". To me I understand this as the echo making an attack hence why its linked to your con modifier. For this attack my DM allows me to use a rapier. My got to strategies are always to find a rooftop (sniper style), Stealth and attack from the echos position, Cover and attack from the echos position, Go nova on the BBEG - my EK gets 2 bow attacks + 2 bow attacks (action surge) + 3 Unleash incarnation coupled with sharpshooter at lvl 7 he did 99 points of damage. My plan is to get him level 11 for 3 attacks and then multi class to celestial warlock to gain hex. So I throughly enjoy the shenanigans with this build. The teleport almost at will is also awesome. Hope these thoughts help
@MARRRRC0P0L0
@MARRRRC0P0L0 Год назад
Really well done, and very insightful, thank you.
@M0ebius
@M0ebius 3 года назад
Sort of a meta-comment, but I dont think it’s necessarily a given that your viewers know that the optimal Echo Knight is Echo 6+ Barbarian 2+ GWM+Sentinel. Even hardcore powergamerd don’t necessarily know the ins and outs of every subclass, let alone the fledgling power gamer that is looking for information.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Fair... it's just that almost every build/review/discussion I researched immediately called out that particular synergy, so it seemed like the memo had circulated.
@M0ebius
@M0ebius 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons That’s the nature of optimization - the meta inevitably converges around a small number of powerful mechanical interactions. For martials in particular this tendency is exaggerated due to the large power discrepency between mechanics.
@krunchyfrogg
@krunchyfrogg 3 года назад
This feels so much like the 3e spiked chain build.
@theeye8276
@theeye8276 3 года назад
Hopefully this is more interesting then the standard optimization you have encountered: My build now that van richten's guide is out is to make a lancer ech knight. First pick your lineage to be a dhampir (I like being a lizardfolk dhampir because your two skill proficenys and swim speed can carry over to the lineage, plus they have sharp teeth which fit thematically). I would then pick blind fighting as the fighting style so you can always summon your echo (like you stated) and so that you can still see with your blind sight up to 10 feet when you use your 7th lvl echo knight ability to scout with your echo. Then when you become an echo knight at lvl 3 your main weapon can finally be a lance, normally lances are bad because you have disadvantage to attack anything 5 feet away from you but all you have to do is move your echo so it's 10 feet away from an enemy to avoid this ( which is easy since your echo does not provoke opportunity attacks). Before you end your turn however make sure you echo is actually within 5 feet of an enemy so that it can do opportunity attacks with your vampiric bite instead of your lance because as I stated the lance would have disadvantage. When we reach lvl 4 I'd take the piercer feat which would work swell for both the lance and my vampire bite since they both deal piercing damage. This is great because the piercer feat allows us to reroll our D12 lance damage die if we ever roll low once a turn. From then on you can either go straight fighter or do a barbarian dip (eventually taking the sentinal feat which ever direction you choose).
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
That's pretty clever! I like the Lance/Echo synergy. I do plan on doing a Dhampir build soon... I think a series of Ravenloft builds would be timely and appropriate for the near future!
@theeye8276
@theeye8276 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons That sounds great! The dhampir is a little tricky in the sense that I would like to make a ranged build to take advantage of spider climb but I also would want to be melee to use the vampiric bite. I look forward to seeing what you come up with!
@vision2297
@vision2297 3 года назад
It would work with the first part of the Sentinel feat by my reading and those of several others online.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Yes, for sure, I agree that if it hits with the OA it will drop the enemy's speed to 0.
@steels1449
@steels1449 3 года назад
nice Lancelot thumbnail
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Who? I just thought it was a cool pic, but do let me know if it's an actual character from somewhere!
@steels1449
@steels1449 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons It's Lancelot, or Berserker, from the anime, Fate/Zero.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
@@steels1449 Well, he certainly looks very "Echo Knighty" to me, lol.
@arcanerecovery2567
@arcanerecovery2567 2 года назад
just noticed this video is over a year old and the rules still say you can use the 7th level feature to be 1,000 feet away and not have your echo destroyed... the 3rd level features can still be used apparently
@arcanerecovery2567
@arcanerecovery2567 2 года назад
love your videos, keep up the good work... point to note with War Caster feat, it says: you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. this means you have a choice of making the OA with a weapon... OR... using a reaction to cast a spell if you choose to use a reaction to cast a spell, the echo has no option to allow you to cast a spell from it's location, just make weapon attacks... so you cast the spell from your actual location and target that creature (example: ranged spell attack)
@lucasramey6427
@lucasramey6427 3 года назад
19:55 you could just drop the rapier which doesn't cost anything then pick it back up after ranged attacks
@WiresOutMyEas
@WiresOutMyEas 2 года назад
you lost me at "other youtubers are not as good as me"
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 2 года назад
Bye!
@hfix307
@hfix307 3 года назад
So fog cloud or darkness is useful to protect the echo... especially if you have blind fighting as they will attack with disadvantage.
@hey-you7
@hey-you7 Год назад
Thats where devils sight invocation from warlock is useful if you go this route.
@guttyjip
@guttyjip 2 года назад
Shout out to pack tactics yeeeeeboui
@Meichrob7
@Meichrob7 3 года назад
Maybe I missed where you mentioned it but the echo does get some benefit from ancestral guardian’s effect. The feature gives allies resistance which the echo doesn’t care about and doesn’t qualify for, but it also gives disadvantage against any attack roll targeting something besides you, which the echo qualifies for and greatly appreciates. And while the general concept of AG barb and EchK fighter may be “low hanging fruit”, I think that optimizing the level split and the order you take those levels in, to be a very interesting and even difficult question to truest find a “best” answer for.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
In retrospect, I probably should have talked about the Ancestral Guardian synergies, but when making the video it seemed like common knowledge so I didn't emphasize them very much.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
In regards to the split, I feel like Level 2 makes sense for a 1 level dip, and Level 6 or 7 is best to squeeze in a 2-3 level dip. I don't mind waiting a level for Extra Attack at 5th, most times, but waiting for Extra Attack x2 at 11th runs into playability issues to me, as almost no campaigns play in Tier 3, and Tier 2 is where the action is, statistically. So I kind of want all my main stuff in place by Tier 2, even if it might be suboptimal for a campaign that actually gets to 15th level or whatever. For example, my build for tomorrow's video is fully in place mechanically by 8th level, and every level after that just bumps up numbers.
@Meichrob7
@Meichrob7 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons I don't know if this is too much of a split to call an EK build but the level order I've sort of gravitated towards is AG 1-5, Ek 6-8, AG 9-11. Barb to 8 feels really good to me since level 6 gives the path feature which is nice but more importantly gives you the 4th rage per day, which is super super important if your build is focused on synergy with rage features, level 7 gives you feral instinct which is basically 2/3 of the alert feat for free, and then level 8 is there because I value ASI bumps a lot in martial builds since they have so many beneficial stats and feats. This order gives you the main combo by level 8 and I feel like in that level 8-13 range having the extra barbarian levels feels more beneficial than the fighter levels. Like you said most games don't go to 14/15 where having Fighter 11 and Barb 3 would give you access to the upgraded extra attack, so delaying it till level 19 isnt much different than delaying it till level 14 if the game is gonna end at level 12. I think in the end I am glad you decided to talk about a different style since AG/EK is so well known that its hard to bring much knew to it, and you seem to have a pretty strong stance on valuing the time of the watcher so it makes sense you wouldnt wanna just talk about stuff they'd already know. I just really like how well those two subclasses work both thematically and mechanically.
@cyanide7270
@cyanide7270 3 года назад
4:55 'technically' incorrect. Though it the echo ITSELF cant move through objects, as long as you can peep through a keyhole, or look through a window or crack, you can just release and re-manifest the echo inside, since all you need is visual line of sight to do so. It also has even more fun synergy if you can get a familiar, because then you can use your familiar to travel around, up to windows and such, look through your familiars eyes, manifest your echo via your familiar, then bonus action teleport to you echos location. Though of course sticking with the range requirement, which can make it a bit more situational, but is a viable functional nonetheless 8:14 would also argue incorrect. "When a creature that you can see within 5ft of your echo moves at least 5ft away from it, YOU can use YOUR reaction to make an opportunity attack against that creature as if YOU were in the echos space." Via the wording and way that it was phrased, it is saying that YOU are the one making the attack, not the echo, and because it is YOU that is considered attacking and not the echo, that would indeed imply that Sentinel does trigger.
@scottburns5049
@scottburns5049 5 месяцев назад
Anyone can get an opportunity to attack when an enemy moves within 5 feet of you. This confirm the echo gets the opportunity nothing else
@aleksanderk99
@aleksanderk99 3 года назад
I have a question about one thing. I am going to play Echo knight next week (Dungeon of the Mad Mage, we got TPK last session [Rip my Satyr Runeknight], so we start with new characters, 5 lvl), there is a plan to abuse Darkness and Blindfighting for our tanks (that is my Echo Knight and Paladin of Conquest), so want to ask about interaction beetween Blindfighting and Manifest Echo. If my Echo is in Darkness or Fog, and i want to attack using it, for time of attack, I get 10ft "vision" around the Echo? Echo dont have senses, so it cant be blinded in Darkness or Fog, so how Heavy Obscurment rules works with it? It gets advantage on enemy even without Blindsight of Blindfighting, its on even terms or what? Question rises from that if echo dont work way i think it works, i will need to stay near it to give it view for attacks.
@charlessmith4057
@charlessmith4057 Год назад
“D&D RU-vidrs aren’t high quality enough!” Yeah I wouldn’t be in a hurry to call a lot of kettles black if I were you.
@scottburns5049
@scottburns5049 5 месяцев назад
Where does I say you can't do reactions with the echo? It plainly says you can opportunity attacks!
@themegagamer6086
@themegagamer6086 3 года назад
You can summon the echo infinitely no need to worry about traps as you can just use the echo to trigger all the traps. Echo avatar has a few tricks up its sleeves it can unlock the door scout out the room and you can teleport inside the room as your party blast in from the unlocked door and not to mention i could gain a sneak attack. Your echo also has the equipment you do so imagine having a cloak of displacement on and now the echo can have one making it anonning to go a hit on it then there's goading attack off the superior technique fighting style could have some nasty synergy giving more disadvantage (disadvantage roll -1) Now the best part my echo can be on the front lines while I protect the wizards and ranged party members at the same time and even join them in the ranged attacks as I shoot and arrow then my echo can attack it or another enemy that's nearby
@themegagamer6086
@themegagamer6086 2 года назад
@@Hillgrov true but no where in the rules does it say that isn't the case in fact if you attack with a +1 sword it gains the benfits of that +1 right so why not gain the benfits of other gear?
@justsomeregret7993
@justsomeregret7993 Год назад
@@themegagamer6086 the echo gains the benefit of weapons because you're the one actually making the attack still but if you slap a ring of protection on your echos AC doesn't change
@hey-you7
@hey-you7 Год назад
I'm picturing my echo is going to be walking in step with me already through out the day so the first initial bonus action isn't taken unless it's to manifest a destroyed one. I picture the necro grand marshal from chronicles of riddick
@drizzo4669
@drizzo4669 4 месяца назад
That would draw a lot of attention dont you think?
@Jac117
@Jac117 3 года назад
If the attack comes from the EK why wouldn’t the bonus attack from GWM work through the echo ?
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
You can't take Bonus Action attacks through the Echo, only Attack Action attacks and the specified condition for an Opportunity Attack (a Reaction).
@scetchmonkey007
@scetchmonkey007 3 года назад
It is a bit of a stretch to say that the echo cannot be targeted by Magic Missile or to avoid being effected by a fireball spell because it is not a creature. This echo is a magical, translucent, gray image of you that lasts until it is destroyed," It is also not specified to be an object it says it is you and you are a creature. Especially with this line from fireball "A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save" specifying that even though creature make the save any target like objects that cannot make saves take the 8d6 damage. I would also rule that Unleash Incarnation would not work with haste since haste Quote "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action." specifically says one weapon attack only. This specific rule should override the general rule of the class feature.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
It's been clarified very strongly by JC that the Echo is officially an "object", so RAW my analysis holds.
@scetchmonkey007
@scetchmonkey007 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons First who is JC?, I am very skeptical of singular personalities involved in D&D making rulings that may contradict the views of others who worked on the project. I am very Salty about this topic since 3E and Monte Cook. This ruling really rubs me the wrong way. It would mean that Bigby's hands or animated objects would also be considered objects. And thus also be immune to most spells which is stupid beyond belief
@williamthomas4125
@williamthomas4125 3 года назад
@@scetchmonkey007 JC is Jeremy Crawford, the guy at Wizards that clarified rules questions for D&D.
@scetchmonkey007
@scetchmonkey007 3 года назад
@@williamthomas4125 Yeah I eventually looked it up and I have to say the guy is a complete idiot. I'm glad Wizards clarified everything he says are not official rulings. His comments on How summoning spells alone has caused my players to all take different approaches to what animals are actually summoned. And all he said is that the DM decides. So I have one player that thinks you only summon animals appropriate for the area. another that thinks the animals are completely random and a third that thinks the only animals you summon have to be from the core MM. So yeah I'd prefer if he kept his mouth shut. His one comment that "The Dm decides the monsters" has proved no one can run summoning spells without house rules, since he literally opened the door to do anything.
@dynestis2875
@dynestis2875 3 года назад
@@scetchmonkey007 lol you're the type of person who demands proof for every basic argument, only to throw the proof that has been presented out the window because you don't intend to have your mind changed in the first place 🤣😂🤡
@willjcus
@willjcus 2 года назад
1 level of Rogue for DEX/INT saves, sneak attack & expertise 3 levels of Ranger (gloomstalker) for favored foe, deft explorer: canny, fighting style: archery, primeval awareness, dread ambusher & umbral sight. possibly going to ranger 4, for ability/feat. The rest in Fighter: Echo Knight. Thoughts?
@thenatetful
@thenatetful 3 года назад
Throwing down the gauntlet on fellow tubers!?!
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
I guess? It was more about emphasizing that I actually liked the Pack Tactics video, but I stand by it. I'm always happy to get recommendations if you know of anyone who's any good.
@ChristianW1975
@ChristianW1975 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons Treantmonks Temple is an absolut stellar 5e channel
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
@@ChristianW1975 Definitely like TM! He's the best I've seen so far.
@M0ebius
@M0ebius 3 года назад
There’s a second video up on Pack Tactics regarding caster AC. But yes solid videos with very little fat. Also Treantmonk is basically the godfather of optimization. His god wizard guide should be required reading for anyone interested in developing a basic framework for spell evaluation.
@petyu3908
@petyu3908 3 года назад
what weapons does the echo knight get? do you have to give him a physical weapon or does it already have a copied weapon you are holding?
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
It copies whatever you're holding.
@MisterMorg1
@MisterMorg1 26 дней назад
What about the help action?
@jesusriced
@jesusriced 3 года назад
Idk guy theres alot of amazing d&d channelss keep looking around
@timothysatyr6674
@timothysatyr6674 3 года назад
Im still having a hard time understanding how multiclass messes with stats?
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Stat minimums for MC force a 13 in a stat you aren't using on your main class.
@addamsixx7915
@addamsixx7915 3 года назад
28 part fighter series lol
@Domina7ion
@Domina7ion 3 года назад
What do you mean by "Spike" strategy?
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Check out the "Timmy, Jonny, and Spike video"! It means the cookie-cutter optimized build that's out there and obvious.
@jmartin4396
@jmartin4396 Год назад
I found the presentation very concise and informative but the tone was more than a little condescending. That may be just me though.
@dcyphermanplays8233
@dcyphermanplays8233 Год назад
how does moving horizontally help against flying I assume you mean vertically?
@jancerny3641
@jancerny3641 Год назад
Hi. What do you thing about gloom stalker echo knigt??
@mattpinsky6445
@mattpinsky6445 2 года назад
How do you "bump movement by 15 to 45 each round"? as in at 10:58 in this video?
@justsomeregret7993
@justsomeregret7993 Год назад
You can summon the echo 15 feet away as a bonus action then on your next turn you can move it 30 feet away and then teleport it which is already 45 feet and assuming you have a standard race movement will be 30 maybe 40 so then that's 15 more feet so really it's 60 feet of movement with some prep regarding your bonus action
@scottbeck739
@scottbeck739 Год назад
So with Echo Avatar,..you can NOT go through doors or walls? Wth...its a shadow..its not solid..sure it's considered an object but so is duplicate..its like a specter..I don't get this one at all
@drizzo4669
@drizzo4669 4 месяца назад
Its not a spector. Its solid It occupies a 5' space and has 1 hit point. Think of it this way: Its an invisible, magic mirror, that projects an image of you and you can attack theough it. Its the same hieght and width as you but very fragile.
@slimepsychic
@slimepsychic 3 года назад
oof downvoted for hating on community
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Just one man's opinion, lol.
@BittyVids
@BittyVids 3 года назад
I was game until your “not impressed” with other Dnd channels comment, all while your audio sounded like you are recording in a tiled bathroom.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Ha ha, clearly sound and such isn't high on my list when it comes to such evaluations! I tend to focus on density, quality of analysis, communicability, depth, helpfulness, etc. But that said, I know I shouldn't project, and that the sound quality is the #1 thing when it comes to RU-vid. Maybe that's what's holding me back, lol! I bought a microphone, but lack the techie ability to dial in the sound (not helped by my horrible senses, lol).
@BittyVids
@BittyVids 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons and I possibly took your intent wrong. I did enjoy the rest of the video. I just prefer more solidarity in the creators I watch. Have a good one.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
@@BittyVids I've plugged a couple of channels that impressed me! And I'm a big fan of some channels, like Treantmonk and Pack Tactics. I'm just compulsively honest and don't think the space is very strong, in general.
@alphawolf7038
@alphawolf7038 3 года назад
If it means that does not incur OA's does this mean it can't get hit by an Opportunity Attack or it can't get an opportunity attack on someone else
@phelps6205
@phelps6205 3 года назад
it does not trigger OA when it leaves the area of an enemy, because it is classified as an object and not a creature, it can make OA, but only because it has a specific description of being able to do so, but because the description is so specific, the echo can't make other types of OA like the Polearm master entering the area OA.
@steeldrago73
@steeldrago73 3 года назад
What version is this?
@randomperson6299
@randomperson6299 3 года назад
Hehe 6 attacks at lv 5
@mattheweagle3580
@mattheweagle3580 2 года назад
You said horizontally, not vertically 😅
@refinedbrass
@refinedbrass 3 года назад
hey i have a question I've asked many RU-vidrs and Reddit but have never gotten an answer. that is how would you build a character based around the flensing claws Source: VGM, page 81 and oversized longbow Source: WDH, page 201. the idea i came up with was a leonin echo knight that was an experimental weapon made by the mindflayers that went through a kinda weapon x program like wolverine but with Lady deathstrike style flensing claws that increase in dmg die with the size of the character. and the oversized longbow, because it is str based, ranged and cool like lurtz in Lotr
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Those are just weapons with increased damage dice! There is absolutely nothing about them that offers synergies or redundancies for any particular build. Ergo, play whatever you like! Obviously a Martial of some kind would be ideal (as Casters don't care about weapons). Maybe a Rune Knight as thematically appropriate for the oversized longbow, maybe a Barbarian with Rage to fit your RP concept.
@vchemka2
@vchemka2 7 месяцев назад
Not impressed with your presentation. For saying that you aren’t impressed with other d and d channels I have to say that your video was very underwhelming
@jacobnavarro3675
@jacobnavarro3675 3 года назад
But... dungeon rooms are small tho...
@XxMrAlbinoNinjaxX
@XxMrAlbinoNinjaxX 3 года назад
"I'm not impressed" bit of an unnecessary comment towards the rest of the community...
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
Trash talk is a sports tradition... ball don't lie!
@MageryGuy
@MageryGuy 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons There is enough trash talk in the world. Don't need it in our escapism.
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
@@MageryGuy Toughen up, buttercup.
@MageryGuy
@MageryGuy 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons cute.
@shirak8
@shirak8 3 года назад
Dood. If you are going to be critical of other channels you better be perfect. And you are not even close....
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons
@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 3 года назад
No one's perfect, which by your standard means that no one can criticize anyone else, lol. That doesn't seem right! I stand by my comments, and my opinion. If you think anyone else out there is better, you're certainly welcome to your own opinion!
@shirak8
@shirak8 3 года назад
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons Yes, anyone CAN be critical. But if you want anyone to listen, my above statement holds true.
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