People say they feel bad when they kill the orphan, but remember. Killing him frees him from the nightmare. The hunter technically is doing him a favor.
@@diobutjonathanjoestar8367 no he didnt, kos, his mother did, as the violated members of the fishing hamlet prayed to kos to curse byrgenwerth and the hunters, to be sent to the hunters nightmare, where they hunt and die eternally, killing kos frees him from the nightmare as he was never actually born, but he was in the nightmare, which is a horrible place, with the only thing he has being his mothers corpse and parasites
+Xenos369 well maybe you should have not spammed parry then. I only parried her twice because i knew she's easily countered so i kept fighting her the right way and that gave me one of the best fights ever.
+K thank you. It's actually really effective, and it forces you to get close to your opponent. No more staying at a distance and shooting at the proper time; you'll most likely trade hits.
it makes me think that he is just fighting for his own survival, and its mentioned that the great ones feared hunters the most. funny how the most brutal boss is actually afraid of us...
+MadRazzex At the same time, you have to realize it's a mercy to kill it. It's been horrifically altered into a wizened child, basically an elderly infant, and it lost its mother. It has no reason to want to live, and would have suffered on if we hadn't ended it. In some ways, that's the entire point of the dlc. trying to fix the mistake that started so much pain and suffering. Letting Lawrence rest finally. Giving Ludwig a last, honorable fight so he didn't have to suffer any more. Ending the Living Failures, who never should have existed. Proving Maria wrong, that we could change things, fix the mistakes that the hunters and the church made. Freeing countless bloodlusted hunters from an eternal nightmare. Killing and freeing the Orphan of Kos, and letting him drift back to the seas from which all great ones come. Letting him go home. Freeing Gherman and the Doll from their respective shackles.
I love how the fight starts with the Orphan crawling from it's mom's womb, taking it's first breaths, it stands on shaking legs, like a newborn foal. It stares into the sky, alone, and weeps. The fight begins and for the first few seconds it doesn't react to you, until you begin moving closer. It turns to you, a Hunter, dressed in black, with frightening weapons. A hunter with murderous intention, part of the same order that killed it's mother. Now come to kill it. It shrieks and attacks you with every ounce of strength it has. The Orphan attacks you because it's scared, from my interpretation. It's a terrified baby that is lashing out at the first thing it sees. Bloodborne is fucking amazing.
There’s nothing to set the feeling in stone than its second phase. It’s no longer enigmatic, and it’s clear that you’ve made a dreadful mistake. His cries are no longer wistful; they become _pure, unadulterated rage._ It doesn’t care who you are, if you were there; it’s all your fault. And in its festered anger you’ve incited, it screams. It is loud and long, a brew of the festered emotion boiling over. The primal mind crying out for the love that evolution has taught it to expect, only there is no caretaker now. Then a bolt of blue lightning breaks the clouds.
Oddly enough, his placenta spam was one of the few times I could safely heal by the time I was nearly done with him. Every time he started throwing them harmlessly at the ground in front of him, I was like "thank god, now I can fucking heal."
The first half will make you feel sorry the boss has to fight you. The second makes you feel sorry you have to fight the boss, the moment the wings come out he becomes fucking hellish even by Souls standards.
+Leider Hosen I honestly thought the latter half of the fight was easier. It tends to miss you a lot more by sheer virtue of how fast it moves, but you can stay locked on and get a lot more hits in.
Love that feeling when you parry him but get hit so you get a bit stunned, then you dash towards him to make the visceral attack but instead you make an R1 normal attack cause you're already late. You know you're dead in that exact moment.
When I beat him, I had zero vials left and less than half my health. The only reason I got him then and there was because I shot my gun out of panic and landed a lucky parry! Anyway, I'm proud of you, man.
Guys I know I'm super late for this, but I just finished the dlc. I was literally afraid of him on the 2nd phase. His screams along with the music that changed pace had me screaming 😂. But I loved this fight, especially the electricity attack, the sound and the look of the thunders was fucking awesome 😍
You have to think, by the time you face this thing, it probably only knows three things: It exists, its mother is dead and you're running at it with a weapon. It's really obviously shown that the only one who wants to continue this fight is you. After all, it doesn't attack you unless you approach its mother's corpse. It doesn't know that its existence is responsible for so many mistakes on the part of the Healing Church, the Choir and the School of Mensis. So when this screaming sod kills you for the fiftieth time, just remember that you're the only one making this continue. Maria warned us, and we killed her, Ludwig and Laurence were taken by the plague they tried to stop and they both died at our hands. Simon died trying to save the hunters from the fate their precursors caused so long ago, and we killed Brador for what he did to him. Short of Gehrman, no-one will care that you killed the Orphan again. Secrets are secrets for a reason, after all, and this one was so well kept that it fell into a nightmare, for what other name is there for what occured in the Fishing Hamlet but a nightmare? If the Orphan lives, no-one will be free from the old blood. If he dies, you free one old man of his regrets and no-one will be free from the old blood. Sins can be atoned for, but that doesn't mean those sins never happened. Laurence and his associates will still take blood from the Chalice Dungeons and cause the plague of beasts. Gehrman will still be taken by the Moon Presence. Even when you slay a literal newborn god, your actions are ultimately in vain. That's a new layer of depressing on top of the harrowing situation of killing a literal baby.
Exodus 2017 True. But at the end of the day, what would you do if a scary person was running at you with a weapon? Give up and let it kill you? The fact he put up any fight at all is frankly admirable, From could've totally pulled a Maiden Astrea with the Orphan, having him be a symbolic boss for how much evil you're doing, but no, it's the hardest boss in the game, if not for the sheer irony of it.
I disagree with the evil aspect but all im saying is we run up to tons of NPCs and whatnot not just in this game but in Ds as well. and we would just troll past them. Kos, on the other hand, ran at me and attacked me...him and his parents are the reason for the hunt so as such the hunter trying to end the hunt has to kill Everything tied to it including Kos. since Kos is the last piece so that all people are free and the nightmare ends.
Exodus 2017 A very good point, and one I had not considered. And yes, you are right in that respect, it did attack you and it is your mission to kill everything about the Hunt, that's irrefutable. I am no way intending to say 'You shouldn't kill him and if you did, you're a monster', that's about the same logic as saying that completing DS1 is worth less than keeping Sif alive, if you need to kill it, emotional attachment be damned, kill it. The point I intended to make, and I sincerely apologise if it didn't come across, was that the Orphan is only fighting you because of the reasons above, not that you have no reason to fight it. What we do is ultimately noble, we are sacrificing one life for the benefit of the entire world. I'm merely saying that just because its existence is why the curse also exists does not mean that it possesses responsibility for his mum starting it to avenge him after Gehrman and Maria killed him initially. He never wanted to be a restless spirit with the mind of a baby for the rest of his life, that was Kos refusing to forgive the modern hunters for the old hunters' sins that caused that. The Orphan did have to die, don't get me wrong, but from my point of view, I can't in good conscience blame a baby for what his mother did to avenge his wrongful murder. But that is ultimately just my interpretation of it, so by all means, continue to disagree if I haven't convinced you to see my side of it, you will receive no flack from me for having a different way of looking at things. Half the fun of this series is coming up with your own ideas about its characters, and I would not rob you of that.
well to be fair the old hunters were only trying to stop the hunt and Kosm being a part of the hunt they thought it was the best option to kill her. the fish people didn't agree so when the hunters stepped in to kill her they interfered now they think you are one of them even though you had nothing to do with the murder. it's not ok they killed an "innocent" old one but still, they were on the cause of the hunt so the old hunters doing their job killed kosm believing she was linked to the other old ones. now Orphan has every right to be angry and enraged that his mom is dead but that isn't the product of you or the old hunters if the old ones stayed away from and hadnt messed with humanity in the first place we wouldn't be in this predicament. what the church did in the name of the hunt was terrible and treacherous but Gherman Simon and I think Gasgoine sought to do away with the old malevolent workings of the church but they, the church, didn't listen. Orphan is like Guts in the sense that he only wants to take out those who wronged him. We as the hunters are trying to correct the sins of the predecessors so as a result, we need to kill Orphan or we could convince him to leave. We could try and explain to him why these things have to happen but he is charging us with his placenta screaming and wailing thinking we are the murders. If we were able to tell orphan what happened and to ask him to leave then boom problem solved. no more experiments, no more dirty dealings, no more essence, no more hunt, no more need for Gherman, no more need for the doll, and no more need for the dream, and everything can go back to normal.
trollzland1337 and don't forget pretty much the equivalent of Satan in lost izalith- Someone else: shhhhhhh, we don't talk about that cursed thing here my child...
Is it just me or did this boss invoke a horrible sense of fear in anyone else? I can't even begin to try to explain the feeling of legitimate dread I felt when I saw this awful half humanoid monstrosity crawl out its dead mother. I just thought to myself, *There it is, that Lovecraftian horror that everyone has been talking about, that real sense of "I dont even understand what this is and thats why im so scared of it" feeling* And when it started evolving mid boss fight, that is when I realized exactly how dangerous this thing was/could be and why it was that way. This is a newborn infant of the cosmos just taking its first steps out into the world and what does it awake to? Its mother, dead on the beach... and you. A whole culmination of emotions ranging from confusion to sadness and then to blinding rage towards the one it can only assume killed its parent. While I was fighting this thing, watching it test out its newborn powers, watching it evolve and get stronger and more angry I realized that this boss was a threat to everything in its path because the most natural emotion it knew was rage and that, to me, was god damn horrifying.
Thats dame deep. and so true. I don't have the reaction time nore the expertise to craft anything close to a functional character I can work with in these games but its attention to detail is beautiful if your wondering how much if a scrub I am. dark soules 1 up to the two big golden guys only got there with darke sword and luck and so many tears ;_;
TheDaringstDo Dread, but not really fear. More like the feeling you get when everything around you is shit. The Orphan is born from his dead, rotting mother into a literal nightmare filled with ungodly abominations and death. The world he's been born into is a hellscape. The first sight he lays his eyes on is a cracked sun, a dreary sky, and a grey coast full of death and long destroyed ships. What's more is he's an ungodly horror himself, probably in incredible amounts of pain too. Then, we he thinks things can't possibly get worse, we come in with every intention to kill him.
I wish there was an alternative way where you just slowly walk to him unarmed, pat his shoulder and say "Sometime life is hard buddy, wanna drink something?" And he becomes your best pal, going on vacation to Cainhurst castle, Hemwick, taking photos and sharing good times instead of having my ass ripped this bad :(
Would be pretty cool. And when ya start a new playthrough after befriending him, you can co-op the game with Orphan. Bosses gon' get rekt twice as hard.
To this day, I have only ever beaten this thing once. Hearing the Orphan screaming for 45 minutes straight is the closest I've ever come to experiencing real insanity.
I only beat it twice. Once for a arcane character on my gfs ps4 and then one for my arcane character on my ps4. I'm making another arcane character right now so imma have to get destroyed again
The opening cutscene and the first bit of the music really made me not want to fight.... He seemed like he was searching for someone right after he lost his mother... Heartbreaking
Ian Fretts I don't PS plus anymore. I'm not paying for that subscription again unless they make it better than what it currently is. But thanks though.
This is the Kin equivalent of Guts. Born from a dead mother, forced to fight for survival from the moment it breaths its first breath. Good job Hunter (Griffith). Good job. You baby killer.
The horrible thing is throughout the entire bossfight, if you listen very carefully, it almost sounds like the orphan is screaming “NOOOOOO” like he can’t accept his mother’s death and is lashing out at you, a hunter, the very same people that tormented him and defiled his mother’s corpse.
Dark souls 1 reference, there is a boss which is basically a Knight that has been beaten to hell and corrupted by darkness which shares a very similar fighting style with the Orphan, That Knights name was Artorias and is a fan favorite of the Souls series.
***** They fight with the same concept, erratic and insane movements that are driven only by a survival instinct. No pattern to anything they do and the only thing they have on their minds is killing anything near them.
You'd wonder what happened in the "Real World" Fishing Hamlet. I really wish you'd get to actually see that. Also... Note that if you go back to the first lantern after you kill this boss, you can hear the voices more clearly. And I swear one of the lines go: "Mother is dead. Her baby, taken."
+Odwalla, the Baroque Dragon My personal take is that the Orphan died when Kos washed up on the shore. Of course, 'death' doesn't mean much for a Great One, as they can even exist in different places at the same time. However, its body died but the mind and spirit remained. Judging by the rambling guy at the start of the Fishing Hamlet, Byrgenwerth did something really horrible, perhaps experimenting on Kos' corpse. This infuriated the Orphan, who created the Nightmare to trap the 'children' of the Old Hunters, and their 'children's children'. The Orphan is dead in the Yharnam dimension, but is alive inside the Nightmare it created. Its body has become old and wizened, but its mind remained at an infant stage. However, the Orphan's powers as a Great One may have increased along with its body. So yeah, it might explain why he is so powerful yet cry like a baby before the boss battle.
No matter how difficult this boss is, or how horrifying, or disturbing, or maybe even fun, we must all remember one important fact about it Some say kosm
I finally beat him. After 3 days straight of blood and tears. After having to go back and farm for blood vials 10 times. After probably 60 attempts. I beat him. Yeah, Orphan was the hardest boss for me, from any game I've ever played.
I beat him on my 5th try (30 min total) BUT i used an arcane build. the UI and lock-on system might be a lil janky, but arc is the way to go in the soulsborne series. way less pain.
Took me 6 tries, and I do agree that he's a very difficult boss, but honestly his first phase was surprisingly simple. The second phase is where shit gets ridiculously BS.
no matter how many times this thing killed me i still felt awful fighting it. i don't know if it was the music, the thing's screams when it summoned the lightning waves, or the combination but it really felt like we weren't the "good guys" in this fight
We never were, according to the lore in a short sentence we humans are assholes who abbused and killed the innocent great ones (Ebrietas, Kos, Mergo etc.) While we worshipped the asshole Great ones (Moon prescense, Oedon and so on.) So yeah is normal to feel bad about the orphan since we killed his entire family for research and his mother in front of him right after he is born.
+Strigon Team Well... Ebrietas is certainly benign. She won't attack you unless you attack her, and she's clearly grieving for the death of someone, presumably Rom. The same goes with Rom. In fact, by killing Rom, we unleash the blood moon and potentially kill countless people. Mergo isn't even born yet. We have no idea what their intentions could have been, but at least in this case we're stopping Mensis from doing something potentially catastrophic. Kos probably isn't too bad, as they answer to the calls and prayers of those who ask. Of course, though, they might have very well been killed by Byrgenwerth hunters.
One thing though, Mergo actually is born before we unveil the Blood Moon/Great Ones. At 60 insight, you can hear a baby's cry before killing Rom. This makes sense because the Blood Moon is always there, we just could never see it. The only thing killing Rom does is break the curtain that hides the great ones and the Blood Moon. Another thing that supports this is that you find a note in Yahargul that says "Behold, a Paleblood Sky!" even before you kill Rom. The note isn't lying, the Paleblood Sky is there; we just can't see it. A lot of this info I got from dmcredgrave's videos if you're interested.
***** Oops. I said that wrong. She is born, but she's only just been born. She's an infant and presumably unable to take care of herself, but her birth has grown a nightmare around it.
A lot of people BARELY mention how heartbreaking this fight is. It's sadder than Sif; I get it, her lore is tragic. But you're literally fighting the spirit of an orphan who died before it was even born.
so the OoK boss is basically take Artorias make him snort 50 pounds of meth make him hate your guts and your existence kill everything he every cared about make him bat shit insane in the first place and give the title of being the son of the most powerful great one Kosm and you have Orphan of Kosm also don't mind giving him a skyscraper level high health bar and make him unpredictable as death itself
Well that's most certainly one way to put it. Only thing you're missing from this is how he hits like a truck made of trucks full of trucks filled with explosives.
1:28-1:34 That part of the song hit me so fucking hard. I actually felt my stomach churn with grief during that. It really summarizes the agony felt by the Orphan of Kos. Hell I unconsciously shed a tear. Bloodborne's OST is fucking fantastic.
This dude crawling out of his dead mother, covered in guts and filth, looking up to the twisted nightmare sun and starting to sob made me feel sick... I was physically shaking when I first got to fight him...
Questioning whether or not you are strong enough to continue? Well, it is a game inspired by Lovecraftian horror, headed by a man who loves Berserk. So 'tis to be expected, really.
There's something beautiful about the bosses to Bloodborne, especially in the old hunters, you can always tell, just by listening to the music when the phase shifts. Its subtle but really shows how much the team cared.
6 лет назад
It's not really subtle though, but it's really nice. Look at Father Gascoigne theme for instance, when the second phase begin, there's a huge change in the melody. By the way, it may be my favorite boss theme ever.
I really love how it at first sounds very sad, mournful and depressing like the orphan is greaving and just lashing out of sadness and desperation. But as soon as phase two starts the tone shifts, sadness gives way to bloodcurdling rage and focus as it fully evolves and starts using its Great One powers to destroy you with singleminded determination.
Well humans killed his mother Kos and the other younglins because of research and the orphan was just born only to see his mother and his brothers and sisters dead in front of him so yeah wd should feel sorry for him.
+Hitler Von Fappington I don't know if this sounds weird or not, but all those times he screamed, I kept hearing "No!", "No!". Like a child who refuses to accept the death of a loved one, he takes his unbridled anger out on the first person he sees- responsible or not.
+GrimzElite Somebody actually compared the voice sounds when that guy starts crying. At first you hear a baby cry which is similiar to Mergo's and than it deepens into Gherman's crying. I'll have to find the link for it, but this guy caught it and played the sound files next to each other.
Coming back after killing jolly old Santa in DS3, I have even more respect for this fight. While that boss was a very fitting and stark reminder of the futility of Dark Souls and thus, the perfect final boss of the series, the Orphan here is nothing like that. Yes, you killing him ultimately amounts to freeing Gehrman of his guilt and setting the Orphan free to finally pass on, so it can certainly be argued it's somewhat futile, but it's the boss itself that contradicts everything about Bloodborne's other bosses. With stuff like Ludwig, Laurence, hell, even Ebrietas to an extent, they're designed to make you fear them and be horrified by them. With fights like Gehrman and Maria, it's a show of flashy moves and quick reflexes unlike the lumbering beasts you've seen before. The Orphan isn't tremendously scary nor especially flashy, certainly so compared to Maria. It's just a tall humanoid with a bladed placenta. And rather fittingly, considering the enemies of the Fishing Hamlet, it's not unlike a shark in mannerisms. Sure, it's deadly beyond belief, but it's scared of you mostly. And that's a nice curveball for the gothic horror and cosmic horror of Bloodborne. After killing 21 other strong creatures/Hunters, your final boss is a baby, fighting quite literally for its right to exist, not out of malice toward you specifically. It's fighting you because you're the only thing it has to blame for its mother's death, even if you didn't do it. Gehrman's being kept alive by Nyarlathotep at this point, Maria's long dead and Laurence either killed himself or was hunted down by the first hunters. You've killed anyone else it could blame for Kos' death by the time you fight it. So all that eternal visceral hatred its soul has suffered for years is now pointed squarely upon you. And you feel it. The defensive AoEs of phase 1 to keep you from killing it. The screams for its mother that it will never receive answers to. For once, you are the terrifying creature that an unfortunate soul must fight. And when he hits phase two, when his back's against the metaphorical wall, he does what any self-respecting hunter would do and goes into a rage, trying to kill you before you kill him, using every trick he can pull out of his arse. But like our first attempts at Ludwig, he underestimated the power of a terrifying, horrific creature that desires only his death, and he collapses and fades away, not unlike our dying animation. But he doesn't have the advantage of respawning at the last lantern. He fought hard, some might say too hard, but like the thousands who've died to him, it just wasn't enough to defeat you. And while it may be a mercy in retrospect, we all killed him. Bloodborne has no villain, it simply has people who did horrible things for what they perceived as the greater good, and that's who we are in that moment of triumph, a human being who killed a baby for the greater good of breaking the curse. And to complete the game, if we must split hairs. It's a fascinating thing, what the human mind can rationalise for the betterment of mankind, isn't it? TLDR: While Gael's great thematically, the Orphan is one of the most interesting bosses in the series just for the psychological implications of such a creature being your ultimate foe, when it itself is nothing more than an infant fighting for its life against a boogeyman it fears so very much.
Listening to the first phase music while reading this was an experience. You should consider being a writer, if you aren't one already. Genius. And yes I know this is old but I felt the need to complement you on writing this. It's great.
Thank you for this comment. It really helped me understand and respect the boss, and game’s storytelling a lot more. Goes to show how productive the comment section can be. :)
The moment when you realize this whole fight you’re the bad guy, attacking a child who had its mother torn from it at birth, a child who has lost it all and sits staring at the grey sky weeping in sorrow, and here come a hunter, with blood in its eyes and murder in its heart, coming back to finish Maria and Gehrmans job, of course he’d react with ever ounce of strength and fight he has left in him, he’s scared and doesn’t want to suffer the same fate as his mother, it may be hard to grasp as he’s kicking the fuck out of you, but remember, you’re the villain.
I don't really see it that way. To me it felt like you were finally putting the Orphan's tortured soul to rest as judging by the ending cutscene's dialogue and how when you talk to the doll aftwards, she says the Gehrman is sleeping calmly as opposed to being restless and that something has "eased his suffering", no doubt referring to the guilt he harboured for contributing to the raiding of the fishing hamlet and the defilement of Kos by the Byrgenwerth Scholars. Remember, the Orphan's physical body is already dead in the waking world along with his mother, it's only his consciousness that lives on suffering in the Hunter's Nightmare Don't get me wrong, I feel nothing but sympathy for the Orphan. But putting him down is ultimately for the best, and a sweet mercy he deserves after everything that befell him.
During this fight I actually uttered the insane words, "God damn you sticky baby!" Bloodborn truly captures the feeling of going mad at the discovery of the eldritch truth.
The great Kos is dead. What more is left without this great and benevolent being. His only child is angry at this world for what it took from him, his father. Indeed all Great Ones still seek the loving affection of their parent(s). Indeed, the Great Kos and his most beloved child return to the sea, the great vast ocean where they belong. All things are as they should be this way. Humanity left to its ignorance and these great beings allowed their rest, their peace.
I'm pretty sure kos is a female since the orphan of kos was birthed out of her, but what makes no sense... is that aren't great ones not able to reproduce by normal standards? (aka they need a human to give birth to a child great one)
MyMagical Fries Maybe she's the mother of ALL types of Great Ones. I remember some descriptions in the game telling that the first Great Ones were in the ocean, perhaps she is the only one that can give birth to different kinds of Great Ones, that will reproduce after with a human. If you think about it, Orphan of Kos didn't have any similarity with other Great Ones. Maybe he's a new kind. But I have another question: How does the fishing hamlet exist in the nightmare? It's a memory from Kos or Lady Maria?
+Meian 98 It could be either, really. Maria abandoned Rakuyo and slit her throat because she did something she couldn't bear. Maybe she assisted in Byrgenwerth's research and felt horrible afterwards. Or maybe Kos' was killed by the Old Hunters and her corpse washed up the shore, which might be Maria's memory. Or it could be the Kos, but it was already dead before it washed up the shore, so it would be more likely for the Orphan to have that memory.
All we literally accomplish in this game is kill the good guys. Mergo, did nothing wrong and wanted nothing more than to live -*Dead* Moon Presence, created the hunt so humanity would not get butt raped by all her eldritch mates - *Dead* Kos, a benevolent God that tried it's damnest to help humanity and perished with it's sole successor- *Dead* Oedon, literally caused everything to go to shit and if you squint enough is basically like Dio- *Alive and kicking*
+mackybell14 I highly disagree with that assessment, Moon presence is a bitch that only cares about expanding her own mind while Oedon, her misguided son died by the hand of the darkbeasts of which she purosefully created to whipe out her own species in order to steal their blood echoes and insight. To top it all off she had her own son introduce blood healing to Loran in her stead to prevent suspicion leaving Oedon's legacy permanently stained, all while she deviously hid in the cosmos planning her bullshit, fuck her! But hey that's just my interpretation anyway.
Cassie Cage Wait didn't Oedon exist long before Moon Presence was born? The hunt was already starting all M.P did was create a dream timeloop to keep her mates from pouring out of Yharnam in flesh and bone after 90% of the hunters died or went insane. Yeah the Church was already worshiping Oedon, Mergo and ripping Kos apart. M.P was chronically the last to be live Old one to be born. Also there's this little gem "The Moon Presence can be considered the true founder of the Hunt; it used Gehrman as a surroage host to create the Hunter's Dream in order to undo the Great One's madness. However, the Healing Church Hunters misinterpreted the Hunt and became beasts themselves. If it wasn't for its existance, the Hunt wouldn't exist, and the Hunter would have become yet another victim of the Beast Plague." If we go by the Lore interpretations of Vaati and epicnamebro. She was just a newborn Old one that happened to get attached to Gehrman and when his workshop burned down she tried to save him by creating the dreamworld, the hunt was just a consequence of the dream time loop. So in a way all her "good" deeds were done by pure accident. (0-0)
+mackybell14 +Cassie Cage You guys are really seriously grasping with a lot of these interpretations. We do not actually know that excessively much about the Great Ones and their overall nature - probably not enough to assuredly assign strict judgments as to the morality of their pursuits. Their age in relation to each other is also obscure. What we know about the Great Ones as a whole is that they exist on a plane beyond mundane human perception, are apparently on an evolutionary scale superior to humanity - perhaps greatly so, are extraordinarily long lived if not immortal and much stronger on an individual basis than a normal human being is, but are ultimately sympathetic in spirit (their motivations and feelings are not completely outside humanity's reckoning) and have great difficulty having offspring. In the interview with Miyazaki in the Bloodborne Official Strategy Guide, Miyazaki mentioned a major inspiration for BB was r/K selection theory; the contrast between the focus upon either increased quantity of offspring at the expense of individual parental investment ("r") vs. reduced quantity of offspring with a corresponding increased parental investment ("K"). The Great Ones are beings on on the extreme end of the "K" strategy of parental investment. The creation of children seems to be their primary motivation in general throughout Bloodborne - hence, that is the sort of basic drive humanity can sympathize with. The problem is that they have extraordinary difficulty propagating a child at all. Otherwise, claims that Mergo is definitively dead, the Moon Presence is necessarily benevolent, and Oedon is who caused everything to go to shit (or is whatsoever similar to "Dio"... assuming Dio Brando - wtf?) are dubious at best. This is what we know definitively of the Moon Presence: *"Madmen toil surreptitiously in rituals to beckon the moon." *"The nameless moon presence beckoned by Laurence and his associates. Paleblood." *"When the red moon hangs low, the line between man and beast is blurred. And when the Great Ones descend, a womb will be blessed with child." *"The Mensis ritual must be stopped, lest we all become beasts." *"Nightmarish rituals crave a newborn. Find one, and silence its harrowing cry." *"Every Great One loses its child, and then yearns for a surrogate. The Third Umbilical Cord precipitated the encounter with the pale moon, which beckoned the hunters and conceived the hunter's dream." (From Gehrman's umbilical cord.) This is what we know definitively of Oedon: *"The Great One Oedon, lacking form, exists only in voice. Human or no, the oozing blood is a medium of the highest grade, and the essence of the formless Great One, Oedon. Both Oedon, and his inadvertent worshippers, surreptitiously seek the precious blood." *"Every Great One loses its child, and then yearns for a surrogate, and Oedon, the formless Great One, is no different. To think, it was corrupted blood that began this eldritch liaison." (From the umbilical cord of Arianna's child.) *(Precious/corrupted blood seems to refer to those with particularly special blood, such as Arianna, who is generally accepted as a descendant of Cainhurst.) Mergo, by comparison, is an even more obscure entity. From all indications, it seems to be the child of Yharnam, the Pthumerian Queen (due to her weeping outside of Mergo's Loft and her being a "carrier of the Child of Blood" according to the Blood Rapture Rune), and was most likely conceived by Oedon. Yharnam and Annalise are both blood queens, indicating a relation between Pthumerian blood and that of Cainhurst, which Arianna herself descends from. This would explain why Oedon went for Arianna while she was in his chapel and why Annalise wants Blood Dregs: "Queen Annalise partakes in these blood dreg offerings, so that she may one day bear the Child of Blood, the next Vileblood heir." The oozing blood is, after all, a "high quality medium" and Oedon's essence; incidentally, Blood Dregs resemble sperm. If we consider Oedon to be both the father of Mergo and Arianna's child, however, we must accept that the ways in which these two infant Great Ones are portrayed are somewhat inconsistent. Mergo is a formless being that, like his presumed father, exists only in voice, while Arianna's child is much like the celestial larvae encountered in the Upper Cathedral Ward before the Orphanage. It is implied, however, that Mergo was stillborn; he still has a clear presence in the narrative, which could indicate that while Mergo's physical body (that could very well have been a celestial larvae) never lived, he was nonetheless born as a similar being to Oedon. It also seems that Great Ones, or at least some of them, don't necessarily "die" when killed - after all, you still encounter them in the Chalice Dungeons after their presumed deaths. It _may_ be necessary to kill Great Ones in the dreams/nightmares - in other words, on planes beyond the ones humans typically experience - to destroy them permanently. Only Mergo's Wet Nurse (or perhaps Mergo himself), the Moon Presence, and now the shadowy specter above Kos' corpse ever give the "Nightmare Slain" notification, and they're conspicuously absent from the Chalice Dungeons. Further, the Yharnam Stone makes this ominous claim: "The Queen lies dead, but her horrific consciousness is only asleep, and it stirs in unsettling motions." This could very well apply to the Great Ones in general, but it's not like it's ever spelled out. In any case, the umbilical cord dropped by Mergo's Wet Nurse says "This Cord granted Mensis audience with Mergo, but resulted in the stillbirth of their brains." Combine this with everything said about the Moon Presence and how Mensis was summoning the red moon/the nameless moon presence/Paleblood and what the ritual to do so involved (a newborn), and the pieces fall as much into place as you'll ever get in this game. It seems to me that the Moon Presence is motivated by an overpowering desire for a "surrogate child," as all the Great Ones are. This seems to be why it kidnapped Gehrman and entrapped him in the Hunter's Dream (using him as a surrogate) and why it is beckoned by the "harrowing cry" of the (actually extremely old by human standards) infant Mergo, spurred by the School of Mensis. *That's about all we know about what's going on with these Great Ones and anything else, such as their specific moral and ethical inclinations, is only speculation.* Kos got a fuckton of speculation surrounding it because Micolash referred to the being once and caused a ton of confusion about it being the cosmos and such, but the ultimate twist on the DLC is that Kos... is just a dead fishy carcass that washed up on the coast. That's about all we know for sure - everything else must be inferred. Of course, like I said before, the deaths of the Great Ones are not necessarily themselves absolute, and there's many ways to interpret the lines you get after the DLC's "Nightmare Slain" notification. I put way too much effort into a fucking RU-vid comment.
Do you think "The One Reborn" could be a try from mensis to bring the one child of Kos back into this world? The introsequence really is a bit similar, depicting a birth and that skeletal figure on top of the one reborn looks similar to the orphan.
Dun Deal Bischoff Yeah that also makes sense, if you look at the cutscene when the orphan is coming out of Kos she leaves alot of bones behind when the orphan is coming out of the womb
+Hyroth1337 I always thought that the one reborn was a failed attempt by Mensis to artificially create an Amygdala via the human sacrifices of the Yahar'gul citizens, it has a lot of similarities in shape and attacks
This is probably one of the most tragic yet terrifying bosses in a game, ever. It's a disgusting child of Gehrman, emerging from the corpse he violated. An innocent child cursed to live as a genuine monster, in a place designed to eternally punish those who violated the fishing hamlet in a ravenous search for knowledge. It really says "THIS is what your actions led to, You should feel ashamed of yourself", as if the player themselves is personally responsible for this suffering. Because they serve Gehrman, In some way, they are. When we come back to fight the orphan and deal some damage, it realises that sadness is no longer an option, and an entire village's worth of festering hatred is unleashed at once. This boss is like if the concept of a war crime was made into a living creature.
The orchestral moment at 0:23 really hits me in the feels. This boss, accompanied by this very somber music, struck me in a way no other video game boss has done before. Without a doubt, this is my personal favorite boss in the Souls Series.
Completely agree man. Best boss in the entirety of soulsborne imo, and an underrated as fuck theme to boot since it's often overshadowed by ludwig and maria
“Bergynwerth, Bergynwerth, Blasphemous murderers, blood crazed fiends, By the wrath of Mother Kos Mercy…mercy please… …mercy, for the poor wizened child…”
I gotta say, out of all the Bosses in all of the souls (or souls-like) games... This one disturbs me as well as simultaneously breaks my heart more than any of the others... A being that is physically fully grown but has the mindset of a violent child, mournful of the mother it never knew and spiteful of all others around it. The haunting screams and cries it emits reminiscent of one in emotional pain and distress, confused and frightened of the world around it... The Orphan is a being that just wasn't meant to be, and aside from the frustration it provided in combat, it felt good to put it out of its misery, so that it may pass on.
that human like weep he does before the fight is actually the most disturbing thing in the game in my opinion (and this is a game with ALOT of disturbing crap.
Raging Raving Amen, man, amen. Basically a sound reminiscent of a "full grown" man with the mindset of an infant... That really creeps me out for some reason.
I finished my first Bloodborne play through this past weekend (it was my second Fromsoft game after Elden Ring) and this fight definitely gave me more trouble than any others. After the first 30 attempts I was really pissed at the Orphan, but when I finally brought him down, I was honesty left wanting to give him a big hug. Honestly the Old Hunters is probably one of the best DLC I’ve ever played, I loved the mounting sense of horror that flows like the river of blood through the nightmare, with the looming sensation that nothing good waits at the end. I got chills when “Fishing Hamlet” first popped up on screen.
I just love the difference with Mergo. This is not a feeble baby who needs an entire cult to manifest on earth, this being is born as an already old humanoid, and in a few minutes of fighting he starts to transform more into a monster. Just imagine what would have happened to the nightmare and to the whole other planes if this being wee to kill you and grow into whatever form it would have as an adult.
well he isn't real, you know that? the actual Orphan died, your fighting his Nightmare, he's stuck in the Nightmare the same way Gherman is, and for similar reasons.
God, the lore around the old hunters dlc is so fucking metal... Hunters so bloodlusted and knowledge-hungry that they went so far as to kill a god, a sin that traps them in what is basically eternal hell, and not even a hell where they are tortured, but where they are the torturers. The dlc is full of demons and it just keeps going. Bloodborne really is the opposite of dark souls. Dark souls is all about the struggle of men in a world that constantly dooms them and renders them powerless. Bloodborne is about the strength and foolishness of men dooming the world and ultimately themselves.
We dont know if the hunters killed Kos or not. She was infected with parasites (Kos' parasite) and might have died because of that. But great ones dont truly die when their body perishes, their consciousness still remains in a different plane. The true sin was defiling her corpse to make experiments and taking her unborn son. This made Kos (even after death) lay a curse upon the hunters
@@clrl936 But they did kill the orphan right? In which case they killed not just a god but a fetal god, which is arguably much worse. I will say the kos parasite explanation is a bit disappointing, but it could be that the parasites came from kos herself as a means of destroying her physical body to gain higher power and curse the hunters. Seeing all those destroyed ships in the ocean makes me want to think that one day they just spotted Kos in there and were so excited they hunted her down, defiled her corpse, and killed her child. Why not make it the worst explanation possible?
@@Fallicacy read kos parasite description. It says the carcass of kos "washed up on the coast", meaning Kos was probably dead before arriving at that village and before the hunters found her
Dude, this DLC is insane. You descend into literal hell, brimming with the souls of the cursed and damned, and after learning how this nightmarish realm came to be, face off against the child of a dead god
First time I heard this song, I was filled with an overwhelming sense of dread and sadness. Videogames have never had an effect like that in me before. This game is truly phenomenal
1:02 is the most beautiful/best part imo. Really perfectly conveys that Celestial wonder one feels when facing what's essentially a newborn eldritch entity of the universe.
This guy and Lady Maria are probably my two favorite bosses across all the Souls games. They're at least up there with Sir Alonne, Artorias, Fume Knight etc. Fun stuff!
+Rasputin The Savior It was made by the people who made Souls games, it was actually made by Team A, while Dark Souls 2 was made by Team B. When making Bloodborne, they wanted the same feeling as Dark Souls but in a very different settting, with a different theme.
+ExistentialOcto It is. Though the Orphan is a great fighter for something that's been alive for all of twenty seconds, it is still afraid. It seems to know its mother was killed, and it apparently thinks Hunters like you were likely responsible. So, naturally, it doesn't want to die at your hands.
Fought this boss for about five hours steadily on NG+5, always trying new weapons/combos. Eventually cheesed him with Ludwig's Holy Blade +10 and bolt paper. Phase 1: Learn his parry points and gun/stagger him. This (learning) period will take the longest. Phase 2: Apply bolt paper and trick into Greatsword form. Use only R1 attacks. STAY BEHIND or DIAGONAL BEHIND and hit him. The Greatsword form of Ludwig's Blade will interrupt him from his short-range frenzies. When he summons lightning from the corpse of his dead parent, unlock from him and rollspam towards any break in the lightning. Rune Build: Clawmark; Anti-Clockwise Metamorphosis; Hunter Oath; discretion. May the Good Blood guide your way.....
Thanks you for writing this down, I tried sticking to what you wrote here and finally killed him. Especially your strategy with 2H weapon in phase 2 worked wonders, I kept staggering him and then he just relentlessly kept jumping above me and throwing the explosives all around me, giving me windows to regen stamina.
So humans basiclly took everything from Kos, killed his mother, left him to die on the shore, just to do research? We are one of the few to ever aproach him, and all he sees is us is a monster than needs to be destroyed because of everything that was taken from him....
I love how this music perfectly portrays the mood of the boss fight, at first it's very slow and feels quite tragic and sad while you defeat the culmination of the atrocities commited upon the hamlet by byrgenwerth. As orphan transitions into phase 2 the mood shifts from melancholy to very tense like a "you need to get out of here *now* " from the game itself as Orphan evolves and its already somewhat aggressive approach to killing the player increases steeply. I love this boss fight so much.
An terrified child, left alone by his mother... Near the shores, the Orphan cries out... Good Hunter, brave Hunter... Give mercy on the poor wizened child...
0:00 - mystical, mysterious 0:22 - sadness 0:43 - dread starts to build 1:05 - power building 1:26 - pure rage and epicness 1:38 - rinse and repeat. best soundtrack in the game. you go from feeling sad for Orphan to feeling it's rage, all in one smooth transition. beautiful.
"Ahh... Sweet child of Kos, returned to the ocean. A bottomless curse, a bottomless sea. Accepting of all there is and can be..." What a beautiful quote. It might have been an abomination and one of the hardest challenges the hunter might have faced, but at least we could bring peace to Kos' child. He can finally sleep soundly with it's mother, in the bottom of the ocean...
The way I see this fight is that the Orphan is absolutely beyond terrified of you. It has NO CLUE who or what you are, just that you’re a creature with terrifying items in its grasp and when it realizes its own mother is dead, it weeps. Pure sorrow. When it, at first, doesn’t react, it’s not out of respect. It’s out of fear. Fight or flight. But when it realizes your intent is to kill, it lashes out. It knows it’s kill or be killed. It knows that this is an extremely dangerous creature, come to hunt it down. And when it finally realizes what *you* are, it understands the awful sins your fellow hunters have commit. After all, you’re just continuing the cycle of torment that your ancestors caused. You, by searching out the secrets that lay within the hamlet, are responsible for the slaughter of villagers, only wishing to live how they always have. And you were responsible for its mother’s passing. And it no longer fears you. It hates you. Pure, unbridled, hellish rage erupts. I don’t think it’s maturing when it suddenly grows wings. I think something in it changes, and it’s bringing forth it’s true potential. It’s intent is to kill. Out of revenge. The Orphan isn’t evil. The Hunter is.
I think that the song portrays this in a very good way. The first phase is enigmatic, sad, the intro is eerie, then the cellos portrays something more sad. Then the second phase starts and is no more enigmatic, is clear that you made a terrible mistake, isn't sad or eerie anymore, now is pure hate, fear and rage
I'n not sure the Orphan is terrified, he's just born but he is still a great one, they have levels of knowledge and understanding far beyond the human mind, but especially because he is just so much stronger and more powerful than you, your presence, even though it might be a threat, doesn't seem nearly enough to terrify a being such as the orphan. He isn't a feeble baby like Mergo, he is the new host of the nightmare, probably the new "Kosm" the successor to mother kos. I also believe he is just angry because he is anger incarnate, he attacks you when you get close even if you don't attack first, and that has to mean he is not replying your aggression, he might just think you killed Kos, although that doesn't make sense because you're very far away from Kos when he is born. I believe his aggression towards the hunter is merely because he needs something to channel his anger towards, or maybe because he's just been born and he needs to eat. Or maybe even knows what the hunters are and already fels aggression to them. But definitely not out of fear or blaming the player of Kos death. Also, the hunter doesn't seem evil at all. Just like neither does the Orphan, there's no good and evil side here. You're there to free the souls of all hunters from the curse of ending up in this nightmare. You kill the Orphan because you must, not because you're evil.
You want to know what the scariest thing about the Orphan is? This is it as a child, a newborn baby. It does not know or understand anything. It doesn't know what it is, where it is, how and why it came to be. All it knows is we are hurting it, so like any child, it mimics those around it. The first thing it felt in its life was fear, and we taught it pain. That's all it knows, fear and pain. It has no prior experience with combat, it probably doesn't even know what the word means. Its throwing a tantrum, unaware of how powerful it really is. If it is this strong now, then imagine it as an adult, in full control of its abilities.
i think the oprhan could have been an actual threat to the moon presence. and before you say "but the moon presence was such an easy boss" dont forget that we consumed 3 umbilical cords of great ones. we basically became a great one ourselves
@@allmasterofficial Elden Ring has a much more varied soundtrack in my opinion, I would put it above dark souls 3's but just not quite matching Bloodborne.
@@Semispace ER's music is not even close to DS3 imo. Most of ER's music feels waaaaay too similar to each other. It really doesn't feel like it had that much passion put into it. Honestly, I'd say it compares to DS2 in that regard. Nothing came close to the masterful sound peices like Gael, Sister Friede, Twin Princes, Dancer, and Pontiff. Hey that's just me though.
@@jimmyj5703 I find that surprising. I wonder if people who have that sentiment even listened to the soundtrack..? DS3 has so many songs by Yuka that are really quite similar to eachother, Elden Ring feels more varied due to having a more varied lineup of composers. I actually consider Yuka the weakest link in Elden Ring's soundtrack, my favorite songs were not by her. I totally get you though, DS3 does have some amazing songs, everyone has their opinion I suppose.
