Bloodwater made me irrationally angry to the point where I had a rant about it. How a map with so many flaws could be accepted is just an embarrassment on all parties involved.
Watching this after Wutville was added is interesting. I wasn't even aware of the issues with this map because I only played it like twice for the contract, simply because the gimmick spam was so bad. Every Halloween, one has to slog through maps that may have been great on their own, but instead have a decade's worth of Halloween gimmicks slapped on top. The first time I played Bloodwater, I got spawncamped three or four times in a row due to bosses and random crits. Bosses were never even designed to fight outside of their home maps and are supposed to be tough enough that both teams have to work together to kill them (hence why a truce period was added to the original Monoculus and Merasmus fights). The constant bosses, spells, and gimmicks are what really ruins SF for me every year and why I tend to stick to older event maps or just regular Casual if I want to actually have fun. I'm not sure why having pumpkin bombs, crit pumpkins, and random crits is still not enough RNG for mapmakers.
I wouldn't be surprised if Halloween updates were handled automatically, since Volvo doesn't even wanna touch this game anymore. We can only hope now that one day they'll return to it...
Ever since WutVille was added to the game, that was the final nail in the coffin for me. The TF Team is nonexistent and Valve doesn't seem to care about their game anymore. All we've gotten in the last three years were Halloween and Smissmas updates, and they seem to get worse each year. Valve is all about quality, and yet these maps are anything but that.
I like Bloodwater simply because of that chaos factor. You don’t hop onto Bloodwater to play a regular game of Payload, you hop onto Bloodwater when you’re bored and want uncontrollable chaos.
I know I’m a bit late to this, but still. You’re honestly claiming that this entire update is ruined (12:05) because of an event Halloween Map (a map group known for being completely unbalanced it’s entire existence) with a few minor graphical and balence issues, that were both patched after its release. I understand not liking a map, but trying to rally people against Valve, and saying that an entire update was a waste just because you have issues with this kinda flawed map, which is one of four, is really stupid. However, I’ll admit that the video quality itself is really good, and I agree the argument has some merit. Keep up the good work.
@@verisimuli Yes, valve hasn't done anything to stop the bots, which Valve is to blame. But I don't think that this map is a problem in the grand scheme of things. They selected a somewhat flawed map, which was fixed in like 2 weeks. That's it. I mean, even Uncle Dane enjoyed it so... he is nitpicking about something completely wrong.
I actually only liked hassle castle this year, not that im complaining about getting maps, but I dont think anyone was expecting these maps to get in. I didnt even know they existed, I was really under the impression that more polished maps such as spellway, hearth, dustbowl event and maybe farmageddon was gonna get in, but in turn we got (and no disrespect to the map creators) some pretty mediocre maps. Because to me looks/originality is just as important as gameplay to make a map well loved. But anyway, amazing vid, really high quality for a 100 sub channel, keep up the good work!
I think most of the maps submitted this year, like farmageddon, dustbowl event and such were submitted too late to be even considered. All these maps picked up were maps that are older. Atleast year or two. Perhaps next year there is more chances for any older map or maps submitted within recent months. Or could be they just announce that they are do with old maps, make some new ones like 2015.
Bloodwater actually would be pretty good for someone trying out the halloween style for the first time, but y'know, this is official so they don't get that "first time" pass.
They also reduced the spawnrates for Monoculous and HHH, so the linchpin of this video has been rendered obsolete (although it could be argued that that's also the case on account of it not having been Scream Fortress for a month). Maybe it's because I didn't get around to playing it until it was patched or maybe it's just my love of the Scream Fortress aesthetic, but I enjoyed this map a lot when I played it. Should they have been fixed before it was added? Of course. But they did put in the effort to rebalance and fix it post-release and I think that's worth acknowledging, especially when there's a _certain other map_ that has yet to see that treatment.
It was not the spawn rates that were the issue, it was the spawn times. Bosses could certainly work, as long as they're not being spawned in almost right on top of each other. All the bosses would have been less aggravating if they only had the chance to spawn once a round. On the surface, it sounds like just reducing the chances of a certain boss spawning is good. But just because there's a lower chance for a boss to spawn doesn't mean that it's solved the problem. It just makes the problem less likely to happen, instead of trying to solve the problem outright. Which is why HHH was ultimately removed, as the "fix" didn't end up fixing the problem. Removing HHH was the ultimate band-aid fix, as the map maker couldn't think of any way to properly fix the spawn times.
@@Jakapoa But when it's weighted to spawn skeletons much more it doesn't break the pace in the same way that the bosses do. In fact, I kind of found myself enjoying the small skeletons being around because it made the walk from spawn to the cart more engaging in a simple (admittedly potentially obnoxious) way. I don't really think there's a problem with the occasional boss spawn, and that's the state it's currently in.
FYI, Valve does not fix community maps, the creators of those maps do the changes, and valve just updates them into the game. I also know that even if you do a lot of work for a map and think its at quite good level, when 100 000 people get to roam in it, theres always something found that you missed while mapping.
I'm confused if you actually watched the video. At no point do I ever say that Valve needs to fix this, or if Valve should fix this (I am well aware of Valve's role in adding community content). And while some issues were definitely unnoticeable, needing to fix the lighting in two whole sections of the map shouldn't be something that takes a large amount of players to be pointed out.
4:27 Atleast there's a cool feature where you can use the pumpkin bombs to bomb jump into the little building leading to red spawn. It's hard to pull off but it was very satisfying when I did it as engie and got a teleporter there :)
It’s sad how Valve has put the TF2 community in a state where the community is so desperate for content they’ll accept anything no matter how bad it is
Unpopular opinion: As bad as it is, I still think Bloodwater is better than Badwater for one single reason. Thanks to the spells/bosses, it doesn't stalemate into boring 10-minute fuckfests every round.
Oh my god this map was awful. I litterally couldn't leave spawn as the blue team to reach the final point because by the time I got there, multiple enemies would've scattered my team all over the place making Red's job basically a clean up job. The map was indeed way too dark and the chokepoints make spells absolutely broken and overpowered. But ya know, I thought it was just me being grumpy. It was just a scream fortress map i thought, some players in my matches seemed to enjoy it. I'm sure it's actually okay. Now that I've seen your video I completely agree with what I thought earlier. The map is even more broken than I thought. Great video!
I didn't have a problem with this map and i liked the new maps, granted i came back to tf2 after the first bloodwater patch, for me bloodwater was just bad water with spells and a few bosses, most of the issues were cosmetic and I'd actually have a problem if it had exploits or fps drops but no it was just some hardly noticeable cosmetic stuff that i didn't notice outside of your video, maybe the lighting thing but overall my only complaint was me never liking bosses and they could have done more stuff with the blood, just that 1 pool that slightly changes how you capture 3rd was too little, but i like spells and the pits being on 1v1 areas instead of on big choke points was an interesting style, like that one on the corner at last makes those 1v1's faster, i like the spells and badwater and that map has both of those things, also pumpkin cart sounded like one of those soundboard effects some players have which i thought were weird so i ignored them, with all the gunfire it isn't a big distraction
Gimmicks should be reserved for new maps specifically designed around them, not for spooky reskins of old maps. Except for Helltower because Hightower is already a clusterfuck so adding even more bullshit on top of that just adds to the experience.
Yea I actually don't mind bosses too much in halloween maps, but like you say , in plr_helltower you have no time limit. And in Manor, the HHH often is not going to go to the capture point. In Bloodwater, the many different types of bosses that appear all the time REALLY get in the way of trying to capture the payload cart objectives. I was doing halloween contracts on this map, and I started to really hate it because of all the boss spam. At one point the skeleton king, who spawns outside of blue forward spawn.. did just that.. and blue team (us) were locked in our spawn room for >2 minutes, as players would spawn in, walk out of the door, lure the HHH back towards the door, etc, repeat x50. It was horrific! And that would be fine if we had had a second way out of spawn, like if the author realised "oh this could be an issue, I'll design around this issue", but that didn't occur. I am also a bit annoyed! It makes me think the map wasn't playtested before it was added to the game. Which is , as you say , and I agree, an embarrassment.
HHH goes only to the nearest capture point when it cannot see enemies who are IT or within 1000 hammer units or so. I think this map pretty much copies not only helltower, but also hellstone that uses the bosses on each point as well as skeletons and monoculus spawning with the clock event, but with less thought way.
I need to see a pl map with 3 segments with each segment having 3 points, having skelies king skelly, merasmus cards and himself, horseless headless horseman, monoculus, spells, hell, pumpkin realm, and pretty much all the halloween gimmicks
Very nicely put together video, you didn't sound overly angry at any point. Proper and accurate criticisms all-throughout. You've earned yourself a subscriber my friend.
I liked blood water, it was stupid fun. The only thing that bothered me was the lights on the first point (a problem with current Christmas map). Sure it's kinda bad that valve seems not to care for the quality on the new content, but it's also true that it's not the end of the world, I mean maps can be updated, specially with the spaghetti code that tf has.
10:45 Audio: Having these set at these delay times may make it balanced for Helltower but for Bloodwater it makes the map even more of a chaotic mess! Gameplay: saves himself with jar of bread flavoured substances and with only 4hp leftover but then dies after jumping off the balcony.
My conspiracy theory is that Valve just wants us to understand they dont give a damn about tf2 anymore so they're also forcing us to hate it, slowly but gradually.
I'm glad someone else took issue with this year's Scream Fortress. If you ask me, there seems to be a persisting trend of Halloween Payload (not Payload Race) maps being the epitome of lazy design. Nearly every -stone suffixed map has some sort of issue with their overuse or poorly implemented bosses. The only one I consider passable is Gravestone(?) the one based on Grindstone(?, the lumberyard map). Hellstone or whichever one that has the winner decided by a bumper cart race is EXTREMELY unsatisfying to play when the winner is not decided by who defends or attacks successfully, it's about who wins the arbitrary go-kart race at the with wonky exaggerated physics. It doesn't work like Carnival of Carnage which has relatively short rounds with lengthy mini-games, it is a 3+ point Payload map with tight corridors and very annoyingly close spawn locations. I could write rants about most, if not all, Halloween Payload maps being painfully generic and unfulfilling to play. However, I feel like I'd be alone is mentioning how frustrating for an objective-based mode to be constantly hampered by these gaudy, festive inclusions. (And despite being somewhat inspired, Precipice's sightlines, lengthy walk to the frontlines, and obnoxious pumpkin placement still makes it the worst in my opinion.)
map's still fun, no matter what grievances the community may have. Above all, I'm just upset that it's accepted as an official map, but that would almost be ignoring the fact that almost _every_ official map has had to undergo changes since their addition to the game. If this were a community map, it would be one of my favorites. I feel like to a lot of people, mapping is more about standards rather than how much fun the maps actually are.
Idk, I really enjoyed my time on this map. I think I played mostly after the patch, but it was a lot of fun either way. There were glitches, but as long as they didn't open things up for people to build sentries under the map it didn't get me hot and bothered or anything. And sure, the shadow areas do make things a bit scary when you never know who or what could be in there, but I suppose that's part of the challenge and the point. It is a spooky map for a competitive game after all. My only gripe is that the one large deathpit on the less trafficked route is a bit too large and unlit. Beyond that, the rest are fine. The one in that cubby by the first point is good for pyros' airblasts and to reduce the turtling that can happen in that spot on regular badwater. Beyond the technical issues though, I think the theme here is just a different matter of taste. Is this map everything and the kitchen sink? Yeah, and I'm here for it. I love the insanity of the map, and so do a lot of other folks. For a more traditional playstyle, though, other maps (including OG Badwater) still exist.
i appreciate the deep dives into the programming behind the maps - and how stunningly lazy the devs of bloodwater seemingly are. it really is a shame that the majority of the tf2 fanbase will just accept this because they're so starved for content that literally anything they get is considered the second coming. how about instead of clapping like seals, we actually say to valve that this is not fucking good enough and we expect actual quality if they're going to bother updating the game in the first place?
Bruh why do you sound so angry? I played this map for the whole Halloween event and I wasn’t bothered by a single thing. There’s no need to sound like you just watched Logan Paul’s apology. Take a chill pill man.
I can't help but suspect that the authors don't actually know how map event logic works, so they just copied it. Like, they wouldn't even know how to fix it. Of course, the solution to that is to learn how to work with map events.
I actually really like bloodwater, it’s so over the top and disgusting that it’s great. It’s like huffing glue as a map. I also really like how the second blue spawn has 2 exits so it’s harder to camp. You can also cheese the bosses to get high tier spells
I think this Spawn rules would be good on something like.... Player Destruction is it? the TDM one. Imagine having a halloween Team Deadmatch where its two teams, hordes of skeletons and every now and then a boss. Monoculous if it was me. Could be a really cool and chaotic gameode to mess around with. In a large enough map of course.
I honestly liked blood water it did feel too gimmicky but I didn’t even realize the manor clip thing. However it woulda been nice to fix the spawn logic
Because it’s calling for a crusade against valve over lighting and some poor prop placement, half his arguement is a strawman when he is killed by a mini scout that for 90% of players just ends up looking like a small head on their screen, the large death pit on the last point is not “useless” it’s placed inside a main travel way for flanking class limiting their mobility giving slower less mobile classes a better chance of winning any fights happening in that area
