@@ZeroTo60Tube in fact the N54 internals are pretty reliable for those power numbers, it's all the auxiliaries around the engine that are suspect. If you overbuild on fuel and keep things like back pressure in mind when tuning it's really reliable for these power numbers, but when you are looking at power per liter or cylinder it's just physics that if you have some type of failure (cooling/fuel) the results can be catastrophic
@@ZijkantLeutn .....didn't you watch the last roll racing episode a couple days ago!? They were tickled to death and kept commenting on how well OHRLY was running......I'm over the moon for you my friend, but DON'T JINX IT!!! 🤣😂🤣
Fair call mate. Definitely a hook worthy engine, actually the whole car is awesome. I'm happy with mine at around 500 ish HP. Mine is a true daily and just makes my day everytime. Fricking love this car.
All of the above. That's why for our shop car, I went with a top mount single, less backpressure= less heat, less possibility for failure. But then you'll also want more ,wind it out even more ,and still break it . So I think the key is,decide when enough is enough, and plan your build accordingly.
"It never ends" + the facial expression at 10:26 is just priceless haha. That must be what every N54 owner realises at some point during their ownership :D
Really glad to hear you say that 17Ts are still 600wheel capable. Makes me feel good going with a properly supported & tuned RB GFs turbos instead of a much more expensive single turbo that will be more top-end than mid-range.
It really comes down to how much power you want to make. If your building a daily with less than 550 horsepower the china turbos work great, I have a pair of 16ts from china and they have been flawless. If your pushing more than 20 psi for prolonged use they will fail. It really comes down to application on which turbos to use, the china turbos are good for lightly modified cars not really good for an all out draggy. Great content Andrew
@@TheMasterKelly The turbos are working great years later I make sure to change the oil every 3500 miles and I drive the car to work every day 20k on the turbos so far
That's what I did, I took my N54 out of the car and changed all suspect gaskets, updated my injectors to index 12, walnut blast the intake, ordered my hybrids from an independent builder in British Columbia , Canada at about the same price of the ebay turbos , I also change my 0w40 BMW LL1 oil every 3000 kilometers.
I just got the pure 600’s turbos. I’m full bolts all VRSF inlets outlets and stage 2 fuel pump. I’m only going for mid 500 whp for now. I need a custom tune. Been running jb4 map 5 with mhd bef. At 15psi. I need to turn the Boost up with the custom tune soon. 👍🏽
I am currently running these same turbos never have a problem heat even in summer weather. Do to the fact I have a custom straight pipe exhaust with 2 vibrant resonators. Car dosent even crack 100 when I track it. Also running a single pass rad from rock auto, and an stock oil cooler. Also have all the lower panels removed for better heat removal.
Hi guys thanks for the awesome channel 🙏🏻🙏🏻, so i ran my 54 FBO for a while stock turbos peak boost 17psi with wmi fsb system with the jb4 and it was great so since I saw you guys going Chinese I went version 3 viv auto sport 19t 6/6 compressor design turbos I gave it a go , I opened them up and replaced the o rings with the viton o rings cause they felt a bit spongy and inspected the thrust assembly and it was the 14mm dual oil thrust 👌🏻👌🏻,so spool they spool stock like and ripps to 7000rpm unbelievable now running at 18 psi dual #7 meth nozzles and it feels amazing , with wgdc running about 35-50% and 8deg timing and yes if you go 20psi and up it’s a complete animal , one last thing, I carried my stock BMW waste gate actuators over and resetted them , they hold boost easy these 19tees All the best keep the content flowing it’s a lot of work I know, love the roll racing nights🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Totally agree with Andrew, Sticking to about 400-450 hp for reliability and maintenance before mods 👍 Waiting until I can afford a good set of RB turbos 😣 In my opinion for a daily it's enough on the road though. JSR doing the business with a custom tune on my stock turbos at the moment 👌 17t Chinese turbos have been very impressive considering how hard they have been pushed. 👌
I’m running Pure stage 2 high flows on my DCT N54, despite spending the extra money I still want to go down the single turbo route, at the time I thought I’d save a little by going the pure option over the single option. The turbos have been good, but honestly I don’t see my car putting much more power down than what you’ve gotten out of the 17T car. I am however running 98, not ethanol. Also, been looking for a diff for my car. Being DCT, diffs are even more expensive again.. looking around $4k to have one built as the dct cars have a sealed diff. 6 months ago you could pick up an M3 rear end for $2k, now I can’t find one under $4k. Crazy money in making these cars fast.
these 17ts were good for a year ,made nice power nice spool was running 550 until i started to have wastegate rattle . got them sent to a company for repair and they were all good 2 months after the rattle started again now 2nd time or something else with the turbos i have no idea , its rattling at idle sounds like exhaust rattle
The DAW turbos use the same cast housings, and also said to be the same as what’s out there for turbos. If doing a bigger manifolds, either the Hydras, or RB. They have tru bigger id manifolds that have a great track life.
The china ones were based on an old DAW design. The casting for the Viv V4 looks like flow max, but it is different. The DAW turbos are not compare-able to china, which they shouldn't be, considering the price difference.
I wonder if daw turbos are using the same casting design but they paid to have their own mould made up with their logo cast in? I don't think it costs all that much to have done. It looks visually identical otherwise, same proportions all over you can buy the same style 17/19t china turbo off eBay/AliExpress, with the larger split manifold. And it's +/- the same price as the ones you've been running
Yes pretty sure the same goes to - slap on a BIG single and it'll solve ALL your problem.....so the owner slap it on and does ZERO maintenance :) - GENIUS!
I have dynamic autowerx twin turbos on my 335 that i bought. After buying i did research to see what people think of them and i saw a lot of negative people talking about them. Unsure what to think. My car seems just fine with them and its been put through its paces by both the previous owner (treating it like shit) and also me doing pulls. Hits 20 lbs and car doesnt smoke at all so i dont know what to believe
Really happy i found this video, great information thank you. Last year I sold my Lexus RC and bought a 07 335i 6MT. ( Cries in reliability ) but Im having a blast with the car its my daily ive done work on it already lol. But im reaching the point of new turbos and knowing that I wont be pushing my car for power china turbos sound like what my needs are. Currently getting through all the maintnence before any “fun” mods.
I really apreciate that you put the whole numbers/feeling into is. Personally I went a similar route back in the day with a subaru, now with the n54 I just went straight to the problems and fixed them right away (bought the car and literally that first week I bought index 12 and many, many gaskets). Its so hard for people to do it like that usually, even more putting numbers on the table. Thank you!
I’m 19 leaving to the Air Force within the next year (just stuck waiting) I work and have had crazy love for cars and I just want something I can genuinely enjoy for myself, I love driving I drive this little 02 civic at least 150 miles in my little town a day just for fun. I know what’s coming maintenance wise I wanna learn and take everything on myself, oil changes etc simple stuff I have down and I’m used to frequent servicing because of my dirtbikes and quads so the maintenance for fun is completely fine with me. I’ll have one in the next two months I just hope I don’t get a bad one.. I’m trying to be as smart as possible what has and hasn’t been replaced how many owners who owned everything
Hey man!!! With your mindset you will be sweet with a N54. They take work but are very rewarding. Assuming she has oil pressure and doesnt knock, there is no such thing as bad one! Everything is fixable.
I went with DAW825rs on my old 135i. Such a nightmare. They leaked coolant into my engine through the housing. Had to do turbos 3 times. 5 or 6 months of waiting. Once they were sorted and it was tuned it made about 330kw on the dyno program we used on 98 octane with just a 460L intank pump so wasn't too bad but man getting to that point was a nightmare. I'll never deal with that brand again.
I remember seeing your issues play out on the facebook groups. The fact you actually got support from DAW was one of the reasons i started to take note of them.
Great vid! Been looking to upgrade my turbos for a while now but RHD makes it harder to find suitable turbos 😭 Look forward to seeing more from you guys, keep up the great work 👍
Good note on the smaller exhaust section of the chinese turbos. I have heard this as well from a reputable local N54 turbo shop as well. The pure600s market themselves as larger exhaust sections too, but in reality are not internally.
Great and informative as always mate, definitely a journey with the old N54s but worth it for sure. As you said maintenance before mods is definitely key with them.
@@ZeroTo60Tube tuner is away at the moment.... so unfortunately not yet last tune targeting 26psi was pulling some timing so just waiting for some feedback. Speaking of maintenance he did mention leaky injector last time we spoke which is never fun....
This was an awesome honest review. I am here in Canada will tune my car for 93 Octane so I guess the chinese turbos makes more sense to my case as I will only be able to push max 500 whp.
Basically what you're saying is that a solid 1/2 of 335i owners will install the 17T turbos with all the oil leaks. Watching your videos really have made me not fear the Mighty N54. just because of the flow problems on the chinese 17T at higher HP would make sense to avoid them. But for a cheap N54 car they would be the perfect upgrade if you were to not run more than 500whp. I feel like after that you're making those turbos really work..
I think the big thing with euro vs commodore and Ford. We follow the drivline.. if you add power the box shaft and diff needs to be done. It's just a natural thought. But with a euro you hope it can handle the power.. Wether than can or not you just hope. Bus a commy guy you always follow what happens if....
love the very valuable content you shared to us, sorry to say your pain our gain! Quite interesting is you talk about your perspective about the 3xx hp airflow is restricted on the turbo inlet But how about the outlet restricted because of the steering column ? ( only RHD guy knows that feel )
Not many at all. I went with this kit because of the design work that went in to the manifold. It actually sounds incredible. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Vk1qyONCb5M.html&t
My car is 335i with dct. I am aiming for the cheapest way to get 600 or 50whp. Should I go 19t turbos twins or go single . Which is more reliable and drivable for daily use
Stock turbos on MHD V5.1 E40, with 2” inlets and outlets is crazy. Not as fast as st or hybrids but the spool is incredible. I need LSD though as I am spinning up to 50mph with Pilot Sport 4S tires
You can get the Chinese turbos with the split housing castings that have bigger hot side diameters, they're not fully split, but the same size at least, in theory a bit healthier for pushing bigger numbers?
I did a little research and I read that the 19t turbos make power more efficiently than the 17s because of the bigger wheel. So on shitty 91 pump gas like I have access to, it'd technically make more power on less boost. Also the 6+6 blades make less torque on the bottom end, so it'd be easier on your motor. I haven't tested any of this, just stuff I read and wanted to add. This video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wJ9CNiEd9y0.html explains the differences in blade design, in case anyone was curious. Great video as always!
Yeah i have seen that vid. You are correct, but you got to keep the scale in mind. Remember the stock turbos are 10ts, so the difference between 17t and 19t is virtually nothing in comparison.
Good points! I going to have to replace my stock turbos at some point. I've got 115k on em with no rattle YET but it's comming. I think the china turbos may be a good choice since I'm not adding port injection. Most I would do is a custom tune to take advantage of the inlets I have and latter the turbos. When do we get to see the carnage from the ventilated block?
I’ve daily’d my 335i on 17Ts for 18 months now, never had any drama. I did start from a rebuilt motor. Haven’t had a single issue. I’m just on MHD stage 2+. Turbos we’re $1400, everything else to set the car up around $10k
Where you buy the 17ts? I need some help man my turbos are about to be gone and I was looking oem ones but I might as wel upgrade my turbos for about the same price and do maintenance
@@georgealmerco4159 i purchased my 17ts off of Ebay. they were around $1800 AUD landed. ive done around 30,000 kms on them and still dont have any wastegate rattle or issues. if youre going to the effort of replacing turbos, you may as well do inlets and upgrades on the components that are much more accessible while the turbos are out. and also oil lines.
Have you looked into the Rob Beck Game Finishers? True TD04 with the larger exhaust manifold system. That looks like a good high horsepower twin set up
I just got my 17t powered car up and running. I think one of my injectors are leaking. I'm going to try and sort that out before I get in touch with Doc Vu and let him tune it
Can anyone help me out? I recently bought back my 09’ N54 335i that I sold 2 years ago. It has 130k miles on it and it’s leaking a good amount of oil from the main seals and It’s on stock turbos (pretty sure the seals are blown as well) it’s FBO and been on MHD stage 2+ since I first owned it. I’m not looking to chase high power numbers just want to keep it at 400-450 wheel. Really debating on going 17Ts or just buying fresh factory turbos. What would be healthier for the motor. It’s pretty high mileage now at 130k and my main priority is keeping it as healthy as possible while still having some decent power gains. I was satisfied with the stock turbos and how they performed when I had the car last but I’m wondering if I’d be better off going with Chinese turbos.
So I'm debating on twins or st. Some CTP, or DAW actually especially after seeing your car and Alex the Russian. However I do daily my car at the moment would twins be better for a daily in your opinion??
6 blade, i have my doubts in regards to what level the china ones are balanced to. Yes they are balanced, but how well are they ballaced is another matter. The 6 blade wheels should be lighter and balancing will be less crucial.
@@ZeroTo60Tube thanks for the input,was about to buy a brand new set locally for 700$.But there 11 blade.I’m just going to order the 17t’s.500 wheel is enough,for now.
On the same note, there is no cheaper platform to go quicker. Point of the video was people not understanding what other costs are involved in going quick even when you do buy the "cheap" turbos. Most other platforms, 2JZ, RB, barra, dont have the cheap turbo options or huge selection if china bolt parts. You have to pay to play!
Love the review on the 17ts! I’ve got a 335i which is about to go in the garage for valve stem seal replacement. I’ve been thinking about going with the 17ts. Current mods are FMIC, Downpipes & full system, Dual cone induction, charge pipe, stage 1 fuel pump, step 2 colder sparks, new ignitions. I am aiming for 500-520bhp!? Would you say go for the 17ts ?
I’m not really running on a budget just seem like a good possible options since watching your vlog. How many miles do you feel it will be before issues? Haha
lovely informative video! you werent wrong, i always toyed with the idea of a 335i or 135i with some power whilst being on a budget, ie run regular 98 and have a fairly reliable bmw (LOL). so when i started seeing your videos on the 17ts, i did get hooked. now i understand chasing big numbers come at a cost of traction. what sort of bhp should one be chasing is my goal is sub 4.5 second 0-100? is 450bhp low enough to allow good grip at every launch? what kind of 0-100 would that achieve? thanks guys! much love from a budding mod rat!
JB is right, traction is all you will need. However i wouldn't say stock turbos are reliable. haha If i wasnt chasing power, 17t and a 98 tune would be a brilliant fun car. But you will need good tyres to get low 4s.
@@ZeroTo60Tube today’s the day. I got a base tune from the guys at darkside developments in the uk. Hopefully off to a private test track to do some third gear pulls tonight. 😈
Have you guys run the Pure 600 turbos on any of your cars? I just received mine and hope to do the install later this month and then get a custom tune. I’ve seen many posts about great numbers and longevity of the Pures.
Not really. E85 helps with combustion chamber temps and pressures. But the rest gets just as hot. It just comes down to forcing all that exhuast flow through a very small hole and turbine wheel.
I’ve followed all the maintenance before going to stage 2+ MHD. The only issues I am still have is leaking from the orings where the oil cooler lines hook up to, also leaking from the thermostat gasket, and last I am fighting with cylinder 5 and 6 misfire. I’ve installed new coils, spark plugs, and injectors. Still nothing. Wish me luck
My goal is to do a widebody e90 but not just look wise I want 480whp low boost near that range to like 520whp high boost and I’m going for the auto since we’ll I don’t wanna drive a manual in the traffic anymore but if I go 19t full service on AT and do all maitence on the engine would I be fine?
Haha, and thats why i kinda wanted to warn people a bit. So many have spent a lot of coin based on our vids... Starting to feel bad when guys have a blow up who genuinely can't afford it.
@@ZeroTo60Tube true words bud. On the financial and/or mechanically minded need apply when playing with these... Great fun though. Who would ever have thought of dropping a subframe for a Water pump?!
Wait what? These forged engines don't last? I planned on keeping my car stock until everything fails and then mod to like a conservative 450. For reference, I'm at 96k 335i E93. Front suspension needs replacing soon (I hear click noises while coming to a stop), oil pan gasket starting to leak, & the beginning sounds of waste gate rattle upon start up but then it goes away after a few seconds.
Yeah, dont get me wrong. I still think its one of the cheapest platforms to go quick on. But a lot of people watching still dont quite grasp the cost of it all.
Have learned so much from your videos. Can you recommend a setup for reliable 550-600hp for my E60 535i m sport, w/ hybrid twins? Maintenance is up to date, have access to E85.
At the crank that power level isnt too hard to hit. FBO, walbro 460 in tank (maybe a 525 if budget allows) and custom e40-e50 mix tune. You will be there. That HP at the wheels, go single 525 in tank and port injection.
Im highly interested in these for a future build in a 335i automatic. Question is can the tuner tune down wheel torque to a safe 540rwtrq? This bugs me.. reason being that 600plus torque breaks transmissions. And I would like reliability. Goals would be around 600rwhp and 540rwtq
i see more poeple having a good run with 17t. howveer its luck of the draw. At 600whp the entire car is on the edge. Pistons, rods, transmission, diffs, transfer case. If anything blows at any point, you can't be surprised.
Do y'all think asking MMP to buy their manifold only (cuz it definitely looks bigger & beefier & better) would work? That way we can cut & clamp or weld the 17T's on that MMP manifold?
Thank you for your advice. I have to ask, I have an automatic e92 with FBO including inlets/outlets on MHD ots 2+. So if I go with the Asian turbos on let's say an 30% e85 tune, What can I expect at the crank?
Would love to get your thoughts on the cast manifold that m18 performance makes for the n54. It is so hard to find any single turbo options for RHD cars. I have not seen anyone cover this turbo kit and would really like to see if It can become a viable option for those of us who want to go to a single turbo setup. I would love to try the internally gated version and buy a smaller EFR turbo and get rid of the twins outright.
Oh man I really Thought I had stumbled across something that might work haha. I think you can see more detail of it on a car in this post but be sure to let me know if you see any problems: instagram.com/p/CHYH4sNpBjo/?
Great video! Hey I just upgraded to 17ts turbos , I’m getting a custom tune in a couple weeks , what’s the best OTS map I can run until then, currently stage2+ v10 91 oct
Unfortunately all of the OTS maps will overboost with 17ts. If you don't have a N20 map sensor yet the DME wont see the overboost and it will run ok. But with an N20 map sensor your throttle body will be closing all the time which can potentially hurt the turbos. Any OTS map will run fine, just avoid the higher gear long WOT pulls.
@@ZeroTo60Tube thanks for the reply! I’m on stock map sensor , yes I been overboosting I notice that after doing a couple pulls , turbos pull hard for an ots map , i just cruise the car around then when I get into a nice empty street I do a nice hard pull , should even feel better with a custom tune
@@boost7236 Well the issue is on OTS the map is like run the turbos at 90% to reach this boost target of 18psi. With the hybrids, running them at 90% will hit 25-27psi. So when it makes much more boost the car freaks out. However with stock o2 sensor the DME doesn't realise how much boost it's making. You will see 20-22psi on the logs but the car is actually making up around 26-27psi. So yes it will feel fast. A mate mine runs 10.6 1/4 with OTS map on 17ts. Which is faster than most custom tunes. V5 e40 if you want to have some fun before the custom tune. Just remember you are playing with fire and the car is making mroe boost than the DME can see.
Or what do you recommend if I want a high 400 low 500 hp 335i to be on the safe end and daily still I of course would do some races at times but occasionally I’d say not a lot and I would go for 2-3 races only to let the whole car cool down but most likely I like doing small pulls of like 3-4 on my car rn in the 6AT those are my fav but of course what do I need if I really wanna keep this reliable
@@ZeroTo60Tube sorry to bother you again , but am I correct if you conclude that these turbo's are fine, except for the fact that the exhaust housing is too smal and therefore not a good option for huge amount of hp because of exhaust temp issues?
The thing stopping me fitting bigger turbos is having to upgrade the inlets and outlets on my car. Are there any non silicon inlets/outlets available for us RHD guys?
Thanks for the review and general content. Do you think 17Ts are safe running 500WHP ? Im planning to buy them and I need no more than that power. Not racing at all, just some weekend rides.
I would like to say, but it may still be a case by case scenario. 500whp on e85 will be pretty easy. 500whp on pump things will be stressed a bit more.