I agree completely on the acting like you're failing at the thing and not just acting the thing is so impressive. Theon was able to portray so much emotion and desperation through fake confidence. Edit: espeically in comparison to his genuine scenes of feeling like he's on top now, right before he falls again and again
@@haunterpottsbest thing about the whole show, the acting is amazing,its true, but the music brings the actors roles 100% to life, without is, the characters would be no different from your avarage Joe, with it, theyve become legend's.
Dude, this is so good. Theon is such a complex character (even before the Reek dynamic), and I think you've really hit some nails on the head here. Great video.
Remember? REMEMBER? I have forgotten NOTHING. I LOVED that show. I STILL love it! I was unaware that some ppl had tosses aside all of GoT with the last few seasons. My deep love and fascination with ASOIAF is *why* the betrayal hurt sooo much. It's easy to imagine how Robb felt when he learned Theon had betrayed him and had taken WF. Bc that's how I felt when Ramsey shot a running Rickon at 300 paces, in stiff wind, and was certain his arrow would hit and KILL (not wound) his moving quarry despite the insane distance. That's how i felt when Rickon did not zig and refuses to zag. That's how I felt when the direwolves occupied a combined 57 seconds of screen time for the final 3 fucjing seasons. That's how i felt when Ghost sat out of the Battle of the Bastards, and when they did not give Wun Wun even one weapon or shield or a big log. A door? Chop a cart apart, take its floor, reinforce it and give it to Wun Wun. Then Wun Wun might not make the giants go extinct. Maybe he'd find a giantess years later. A widow with a few daughters. One isn't really her daughter, just adopted when the wights killed her fam. Sansa. Sansa could've saved 1000's of lives by telling Jon "yo, we have five or six thousand heavy horse on their way, along with full retinues, supply train, cooks, squires, blacksmiths, whores, . Yeah I am serious. From the Vale. Just delay the battle one day and.. " The first 2 seasons were nearly perfect. Season 3 was great. Then things declined but the acting remained amazing every step. The set design. the cinematography, the hair and makeup the SFX, the wardrobe the art direction, the music ALWAYS the music it just kept getting better and better!! All remained top tier. The writing and top mgmt sucked. This is especially touchy for me bc I was happily married when i found game of thrones. Soon after i started my obsession, we entered the best years of our 17 yr relationship (10 yr marriage) bc a baby was planned then sprouted then grew and was harvested on the best day of my life, even better than the day my wife told me she was pregnant (i had just gotten fired like an hour earlier haha). Even better than the first time i saw the wee babe via 3D ultrasound so cute she was. The show kinda mirrored my marriage falling apart. So that makes it that much harder. Even when I was really REALLY mad at my ex during worst days of divorce i still remembered clearly the good times. And that is why it hurt. Just like the show, she was a totally different person than she had been for like 15 yrs. Or not totally - the unpleasant qualities were always these but in small quantity, and only for brief, infrequent bouts.
The North Remembers… how good the show once was. Any scene with Tywin, or Littlefinger and Varys = top tier. Or most scenes with The Hound running his mouth 😂
Why does the ending of a show have to completely discredit how 70 percent of the show was genuinely some of the best stuff put to television. Game of Thrones seasons 1-4 and even 5 are genuinely incredible and I stand by loving it.
Glidus might be a good person to reach out to if you'd you want a more in-depth analysis of the music at any point, sometimes during his own videos it comes across as he WANTS to talk to more about the music in GoT but he doesn't get the chance to 😩
I loved Theon so much man S2 was rough to get through. I didn’t see the betrayal coming at all and now the scenes of Theon supporting Robb in S1 are just heartbreaking. “Am I your brother, now and always?” Fuck man
Right? Even still if I rewatch the early seasons I find myself wanting to yell "THEY TREATED YOU LIKE A SON! YOU COULDVE BEEN LEFT TO STARVE IN A PRISON AND INSTEAD THEY MADE YOU FAMILY" but I know he's gonna do it all again.
@@chelscara Yeah facts, Theon’s fall from grace provided some powerful commentary on child abuse and the unfortunate need to prioritize your blood family above all else, even if they’re scum. “My real father lost his head at King’s Landing. I made a choice and I chose wrong. And now I’ve burned everything down.” Goddamn I feel sad every time I read that. I feel like Theon’s so incredibly relatable because so many people have made mistakes with the goal of impressing someone else in mind.
@@tomzhao6956 That's honestly where the show takes a misstep because book Theon would never have said that. Because it's not true. Was Ned a better guardian than Balon? Undoubtedly. Did he actually see Theon as his son? No. Nor did Theon see him as a father. Under the Starks, Theon's responsibility was to carry Ice for Ned to executions. The sword that would have been used to behead him if his father ever rebelled. And Theon knew that. Theon was always carrying the sword that was hanging over his neck. Imagine the psychological damage that would do to anyone, not just a teenager. And that was by design, not an accident. It was to remind Theon of his place - a tool to scare him into becoming a better man. But it didn't work - and any child psychologist could tell you it never would.
@@chelscara I disagree. The problem with Theon is that he had no home. The Starks DIDN'T treat him like a son. Sure, ROBB was legitimately his friend, but one person can't be another person's whole world. Ned saw a hostage he would one day have to kill if Balon stepped a toe out of line. He'd lose a lot of sleep over it, but he'd still do it. That's why Theon imagined his "triumphant comeback" to the Iron Islands, because it's his coping mechanism. (Plus, I hate that the show took away the fact that Dagmer Cleftjaw was legitimately happy that the "little lad" was back and did act fatherly towards him, showing that the Starks didn't treat him like a son for all that Balon was equally unworthy of Theon's love and loyalty)
@@bookswithike3256 Finally someone says it! Another misstep was theon saving sansa instead of Jeyne Poole. In books Sansa is still with Littlefinger and Ramsay gets married to low born girl Jeyne Poole (Sansa friend) who is disquised as Arya so that he can claim North for himself. Its very probable that everyone in the Winterfell knows that Arya is fake, that is why she is tortured (mentally) and raped, beaten and so on and nobody cares. And here is Theon helping Jeyne Poole who is essentaily nobody in this world. This shows theon will to genuinely help someone like a good human being, partialy redeeming himself. However in the show its reduced just to Theon redeeming himself in front of Starks, ignoring all his other missteps, and ignoring all the wrong shit Starks caused to Theon. Its just Starks are good, sorry for betraying you. In the books, I think Theon is THE most complex character
It's interesting how often commentators breeze past the contradictions in Ned's relationship with Theon. As much as Ned could raise Theon to have a different set of values, that he would also raise him to be loyal to the North was risky. It ultimately failed, and likely would have even if Baylon had died before Theon returned. Theon was a hostage, and everyone knew it. He wasn't trusted by the northmen or Catelyn and would always be seen as damaged goods by the Iron Islanders. That whole wardship was a weird charade, and Ned had to know that it was very different from his relationship with Jon Arryn. I don't think Robb saw him as a brother but as someone he had control over. Theon made his choices, but it was Ned who laid the ground for Winterfell to be taken by him.
I wholeheartedly agree, he was never going to be able to fully integrate as a Stark when he and everyone knows he’s their prisoner, doesn’t matter how “good” they treat him. Who knows if there was a full on rebellion from the iron islands again what Robert Baratheon would do to him and if Ned would protect him or not, Theon is looked down upon and dreams of a life with his “real” family he’s heard stories about
I thought THAT scene was going to be the one where he got castrated, and was like well damn! Good luck monetizing this video, Joe 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 THAT scene gave me PTSD I swear...
The pay the iron price piece was perfect for this scene. The horror and perversion of something that was inspiring in the first version. Say what you will about Game of Thrones, but I do think that the scores were top-notch. Particularly in tieing a lot of the scenes together.
Man watching pieces of this show that are good really reminds me how much I hate "dumb and dumber." Glad they tanked their career with that genius maneuver.
Since you've asked for it: there is one problem with your amalysis, you're viewing it only from Theons PoV. Just because he feels unfairly treated doesnt mean he is. Beeing competent is not a byrthright. So his father giving him comand of a ship, without any experience, is actualy quite a privilege. And his crew having to respect the princeling is a bit to much to ask for.
When Theon looked sick about what he’d done, you know he realized he fckd up. And Maester Lewin being killed really made me sad. Back in the days of when no character was safe and plot armor was not a sure thing (cough cough Jon snow post resurrection).
I still hate that "Pay the Iron Price" line that Dagmer says before Theon executes Rodrik. PAY THE IRON PRICE DOESN'T MEAN SOMEONE GETTING EXECUTED IT'S WHEN IRONBORN STEAL FROM SOMEONE INSTEAD OF BUYING SHIT.
Tiny add on, Alfie Allen's expression as he goes from smiling to looking back and frowning is so damn good! I never really noticed before. It's very subtle but you can feel the frustration radiating from his face.
Thanks! Sometimes I feel proud. Often I think the pressure to just keep moving and keep putting out content to stay afloat makes me forget, but it's always nice to have reminders ☺️
@@mylittlethoughttree but don't burnout. I know pressure is part of the job and everyone says "take care of yourself first" when they don't really mean it. But, still. Take care of yourself first.
Jeez, I was just calmly watching your video but the moment the music for “pay the iron price“ began playing I was entirely filled with goosebumps and chills from head to toe!! The power of music is incredible. In my very humble opinion, music has to be amongst the most positive, inspiring and awe-filled creations of our largely pesky and troublesome species. Ramin Djawadi is an absolute musical genius (hope that spelling is correct) Brilliant video, so glad I found your excellent channel!!
Thank you so much for mentioning the absolute genius of the soundtrack by the great Ramin Djawadi. Without it, Game of Thrones wouldn't have had nearly as much emotional effect.
I always interpreted his semi-remorseful look as him coming to terms with the idea that he very likely murdered his own sons (he regularly 'saw' the boys' mother).
At some point soon. I'm gradually working on it in between other videos, and it will take slightly longer because it will actually be a collab... but I hope it isn't too far off. I've made all my notes about Sansa
At the same time I can only imagine what would’ve happened to Bran and Rickon if Boltons caught them… so it’s not that bad, Theon released them pretty early.
thanks random youtuber, after what happened, it's precious to me to be reminded of the good moments of the show, that it was actually good once. Before the last 2 seasons youtuber would point out elements of the show as examples of good and thoughtful writing, even in writing tutorials. A librarian had a Baratheon key ring, people quoted the show and tourists visited places where it was filmed, guides proudly said "and also, here this scene was filmed", people made parodies, mods for games, songs, and many YT videos like this one. The fall of the show outshined the good parts, or ruined the enjoyment because it's not an episodic story, and even though I'm not upset about it anymore, I still didn't keep rewatching the show after that, because it's kinda tragic to see all that potential geting ruined. So it's nice being reminded of things like this as I said, because it wasn't just a trend or phase, this show had an actually great world and characters
As a book reader I was never embarrassed for liking the book parts of the show season 5 was okay except for all a few bad storylines and a little bit of season 6 wasn't as bad either put season 7 and 8 made me get really mad at George RR Martin and Dave and Dan I couldn't understand what they did
I’m just now starting GoT (my wife’s idea, she doesn’t know about the ending which I frankly don’t know the full details on) and just watched this episode the other day and agree wholeheartedly about Theon
It’s interesting he took winter fell. None of the iron born really care because he was suppose to loot it, but Theon can’t help himself, the stark in him tells him to hold and defend, and he just winds up living in winterfel again, his deepest desires to have been one of the starks manifesting.
I think Theon is a very tragic character. He doesn't truly wish to betray the Starks. it's something he does to prov3 himself to the family he wasn't allowed to know. When this scene kicks in, the reality of what the Ironborm are really like kicks in with it. Up until this point, he was blinded to their true nature by both his love for the sea, and his eagerness to prove himself to his family. Theon had always been stuck up and looked down on presents, but it was never with malice. The moment he looks at the farmers' boys, he realises what kind of people the ironborn are and why He was taken away from them. Theon is a mixture of the Grayjoys love for the sea, and the Starks devotion to honor. Iara can sense this conflict in him, she knows hes not Iron born in his heart, but she does know he's still a grayjoy because he loves the sea. This scene wakes Theon up to the reality of what it means to be Ironborn. To be Ironborn is to be forever as cold as the sea, what is dead, may never die. Theon is not a cold person, cocky, but not cold. To become Ironborn he has to kill that warmth within him for everything other than the sea and his family. Ironborn aren't loyal because of love, their loyal because people have proven to be capable. Iara hasn't got the loyalty of the Ironboen because of love,she has it because her men know that double crossing her is a death sentence. Somthing Theon saddly realises too late. Hes saddly a lot more nieve than he appears. He grew up in Winterfell, seeing how much love and respect the Starks got from people for being honourable. He loves the thought of people treating him that same way, but hes a Grayjoy and he'll never stop loving the sea. Theon is saddly caught up in him own dreams to the point where reality never kicks in until its too late, he dreams of being a sea Stark, loved for his honor and nobility, but the Ironborn are saddly the exact opposite of his dreams. He turns on the Starks because his father made him feel like he had to chose between his 2 families. So to prove to his farther that no amount of love he has for the Starks will ever change his love for him and Iara, he takes Winterfell. Its more of a symbolic Conquest than anything else, masterfully executed proving he has a mind for strategy, this is true. His dream of being loved as a honorable Grayjoy is dashed in this moment, but he feels like theres no turning back, hes made a commitment and he has to see it through to the end, or he'd loose the love abd respect of both his families.
Man I really cannot get enough of your analysis videos on these characters! It's a long shot but since it's largely inspired by ASOIAF and Dagmar Cleftjaw voices one of the main characters, I'd love to see your take on the characters in final fantasy 16 sometime, if that's a game that interests you
It's crazy how we still get content about this series, TV series ended and books are never gonna end but people still can make amazing content like this. Goes to show, if only we had slightly better showrunners the final would've been legendary. It takes talent to ruin something this fascinating.
Also, thinking about the complexity of Theons situation has me thinking, or wondering a cpl things. Theon is a prisoner, yes...but hes also there to be a squire for Ned...like Ned and Robert was for Jon Arryn...like Robin Arryn was supposed to be for Tywin. Like hes a hostage, but is also there by duty being old enough to be sent away to another family for learning purposes. What im wondering is is does anyone remember if Rob was ever sent away? If so, with who? If not...why not?
I've not got a full answer to this but I would assume because Robb was the heir-apparent to the Lord of Winterfell. Ned, when he was sent off to be a squire was not originally the heir. He was the younger son. I realise this isn't quite a fast rule because Robert was sent to the Vale when he was the heir, and Robin Arryn was the only heir for the Vale, but who knows. Maybe things are different in the North? I know that the Northerners didn't usually marry outside of the North prior to Brandon and Catyln's betrothal and Lyanna and Robert's. It was part of a pact to strengthen the different regions of Westeros through marriage ties because there was worries about Aryes (it's been a while since i've done my reading though so someone could correct me if I'm wrong). (The north married the heir to the eldest daughter of the riverlands, and they also were planning to marry their daughter to the heir of the stormlands. The riverlands were also due to marry their other daughter to the heir of the westerlands - jaime - before he became a king's guard, and then Lysa was married to the lord of the vale instead. Lots of political manouvering done via marriage alliances)
@@dannieandrews im re reading right now, havent seen the part where its discussed why Brandon was betrothed to Cat, so not too sure on that one. In regards to Theon, though, his older brother(s) (that part is confusing if there was one or two, but we def know about the oldest) fought in the rebellion against the crown, and died in it. Theon is mocked sometimes for it when he tries to act all high and mighty to the northerners. So basically, by the time Ned took him as ward/hostage, he was the new heir.
@@dannieandrews in regards to my question, that would make sense, but like i said, Robin Arryn was being argued over for squireship, and hes the heir to the Eyrie. I do assume its just common practice for boys altogether like in real history, when it comes to nobility. In the part im at now in the books, the Walders had just recently arrived at winterfell to be squired. Granted, no one knows who the heir will be in that one, and Walder Freys own sons are almost all adults, but still. I think the squireship was just normal for boys at that time. We dont hear about Brandon being squired, but i do admit i assume we just didnt hear about it because when we do look at his story, hes too old to still be a squire, and the focus was more on the events that led to his death, not really much about his childhood. So i just assume thats why we dont hear about that.
Eyyy, more AsoiaF content! I haven't had a chance to see Ted Lasso yet so I've been away from the channel so I don't get spoilers, happy to see some GOT stuff again!
The problem with Theon is that he had no home. The Starks DIDN'T treat him like a son. Sure, ROBB was legitimately his friend, but one person can't be another person's whole world. Ned saw a hostage he would one day have to kill if Balon stepped a toe out of line. He'd lose a lot of sleep over it, but he'd still do it. That's why Theon imagined his "triumphant comeback" to the Iron Islands, because it's his coping mechanism. (Plus, I hate that the show took away the fact that Dagmer Cleftjaw was legitimately happy that the "little lad" was back and did act fatherly towards him, showing that the Starks didn't treat him like a son for all that Balon was equally unworthy of Theon's love and loyalty. It showed the Ironborn as human and it showed that Theon DID have the chance of a good life if it weren't for this hostage bullshit)
I'll take "has literally no understanding of Sansa Stark for 1000" Alex. Being perceptive, cunning, and knowing how to manipulate people are some of Sansa's key character traits for the entire series (alongside her compassion, fairness, and desire to do good). It's very clear that she knows she's being manipulated from the moment Ned is arrested, and she plays politics to do her best to manipulate the situation to her advantage. Granted she doesn't do that well at it to begin with because she's _eleven years old_ , but that's to be expected. Of course the show doesn't do as much to show that as the books do. But this channel tends to focus on the books for the psychoanalysis videos.
Also worth remembering that playing the airhead helps keep her safe, just as Ser Dontos advises, plus with everyone constantly telling a vulnerable child that she's completely stupid, she starts to believe it and often talks her way out of the perceptive instincts she often shows
