Building Community: Developers in FFXIV vs. WoW 

Yeah Bobby Kotick just laid off hundreds of workers and used their salaries, in part, to give himself a bonus XD

@@Mrgiggles9007 he new yacht wouldnt pay himself lol

Blizzard has done more than that.. They have given us quality games for decades. No king rules forever.. sooner or later peoples passion will decrease and they'd long to move on to something else.

Back in the days, Blizzard has done many things for the community. Remember the Red Shirt Guy. :D But you know: Success spoils character.

they were too busy visiting cubicals and suits.

a rare specimen among men

He’s a real one

Agreed 100%

He's the best, whenever I see him or hear him talk I feel like he's my dad.

I would go beyond that. I would say the love he has for this game and community and team shows how much of a creator he is, not just a game developer. He’s a visionary, an artist, with an entire team of visionaries and artists all working to create something they l o v e and want to share with the world

He reminds me of Sakaguchi in his prime, and I love them both for everything they've done for RPGs and MMOs alike.

he is probably only dev out there who just encourages you to have good time in his game. Like he is saying to you directly "go get them champ, i believe in you!" There are select few who gives same feeling, but yoshi p feels just so personal.

The product itself is a masterpiece, and watching those "Crafters" craft their work is another enjoyment too

Yoshi isn't perfect, but unlike other deves... he doesn't pretend he is perfect, that makes miles of difference on its own.

I just like the fact that he plays his own game.

Praise our lord and savior yoshi!

True

Great video

You need more subs. Such great takes as always!

​@@leandroP2323 Thank you so much friend!

@@ricardomolina905 Thank you so much friend!

Perfect I couldn't think of a better contrast of what blizzard needs to do the most! not this or that system but humility and compassion to the community and show the players they are not alone in this game. Yoshi has he's own religion I swear lol

Agreed everyone in Eorzea is much friendlier and generally so much more relaxed. As I age, I've really begun to appreciate games that respect my time and give me ways to be creative and express myself while having fun.

There's definitely some discussion of it on the Reddit and some online forums but if you are talking about people in game then yeah even the people who know all about balance issues are really calm about everything.

We don't complain about balance cuz aside from a weird playing monk and a slightly under tuned bard the jobs are really balanced. Even if u play monk or bard you can still clear

@@kelvinrozeboom7313 True! It almost comes off more that people are memeing on monks and bards than actually saying they are "trash" and just all together discriminating against players who main those jobs.

There are concerns from the community, but they are honestly minor. Like, DRK's TBN being polarising, or GNB's DPS being really high from tank perspective. Still, the discussion is largely calm, sometimes colorful (Xenos and Arthars are pretty opinionated), but never disrespectful.

Idk, I remember what he was talking about. I played UO.... and EQ and WoW, and just start 14 in July. Lol

That all started to crumble around the time Ion became lead.

It’s why there was a blizzcon to start with, was a showcase for next bs they pushing like now but a gathering of players.

I remember my first Blizzard GM. Very friendly. After they helped me solve an issue with an item I had accidentaly deleted (I was a newbie and the game had been out for only a few months, leave me alone) they asked if I needed help with something else. I asked them if they could show me the 'final boss' of the game. I had Lord Kazzak dropped right on top of my head. Needless to say, my level 7 self perished. And so did most of Stormwind. He proceeded to make jokes in the Trade Chat before signing off. Was an unforgettable experience. Nowdays? Dear lord, calling it 'soulless' is an understatement.

The Blizzard I loved and grew up with ceased to exist a while after the Activision merger. Of course the Blizzard of the early 2000's cared about making a profit, since that is what allowed them to stay open and keep making games. But there seemed to be just as much care about the products. From my own experience in the corporate world, things don't change on day one after an ownership change. They don't want to scare away the talent the subsidiary has. So they change things bit by bit, day by day until every decision is being driven by profit only. The WoW devs who truly cared about the game and the world start hearing "no" a little more often every month. Then one day it really hits them that everything has changed. Then you start seeing some of the older guard start to leave and things rapidly go downhill.

Thank you so much friend! Your support really means the world to me as I work through all my emotions from leaving behind something I loved for so long. My love right back to you!

i left back in may. and everyday i am in complete shock on how i am treated!

Here is the link to the first interview. Please check it out and support them. They do fantastic documentaries about Japan. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-emFem0PJdd0.html

Honestly, I feel that I joined FFXIV on the trial some months back and while the story had some slog points in ARR by the time I got to and through HW I was just looking around at all the stuff I had and hadn't done that I just wanted to do so much but was obviously limited by the trial, so about a month or so ago I bought the complete edition on sale and already pre ordered EW and man I have always had something to do, whether it's lvling alt jobs to figure out what I wanna main or opening up trials,raids, or dungeons. Even been working on relic weapons along the way, but at the same time I still find so much casual content like crafting, glamor, housing etc the list goes on, I have my sights set pretty high but I joined a small FC and their teaching me as much as they can, while not all of them aren't looking to do the same stuff I am they are supportive and it's a lot better than the crickets id get from asking any guild I've been in for advice, I look forward to more adventures in Eorzea and beyond

I've had the same experience and it's been really refreshing after years of WoW toxicity and abuse.

how dare you do those fates noob XD. You have been lucky, ive met share of my toxic ppl, more lately after WoW players transferred. I have played ffxiv soon 7yrs.

There are elitists in raids sometimes but its not often. Most of the time you fail and just try again.

Honestly, most of the hyper-elitism knocked itself out of the community when the Crystal Datacenter opened up, since before the biggest place where elitist arguments happened was within the OG Aether datacenter between people on Balmung (like myself) and people on Gilgamesh. It was a constant cat-and-dog fight because the "hardcore raiders"(note, Sargatanas always had better raiders) and the RPers couldn't see eye to eye, almost a case of the trope "Evil can't comprehend Good"(your take on which was which is as good as anyone's). Once they were split and could only jab at each other out of game, stuff simmered down immensely.

It's so normal to accept it over there... they kinda lock you in with making you constantly log in each day just to keep up, so you don't really have time to think about communicating with others or connection and socializing. I've really been trying to let everyone know how different Eorzea is and how much more the developers care about everyone's enjoyment regardless of what you want to do.

@M J I can't imagine how heartbreaking that would be for them. I agree though, when an organization culture turns sour, it's very hard to turn around. Sorry to hear about your bad experiences! I hope that you're in a happier place now!

@@Professor_Popo You would not believe some of the comments I've seen by WoW stans hating on Yoshi-P and calling us cultists and that's not even the worst bit... A small part of me feels sorry for them because they simply can't comprehend the relationship we have with the FFXIV devs. They are so jaded and think every company is like Activision-Blizzard. 😔

Bobby Kotick destroyed blizzard once he acquired them. Also the CEO is on Epsteins blacklist

Awe what a sweet comment ❤️🥺

Their philosophy: If players are into Golden Saucer thingy, lets copy it and make 3 currencies for each attractions. Make sure they are gonna spending hours to grind for the currencies in order to get entry to the next level currency, and of course players could experience some little RNGs that they can get a bunch of currency which they dont need

The issue is that even if WOW had a gold saucer type thing in their game they would likely ruin it with some silly ass system within. Even if their intent wasn't make you feel like you have to grind it they would still end doing that anyways.

The only one thing that WOW need is respect the players

All what wow has to do is make darkmoon faire permanent and expand on it. They should add a RTS game in the DMF. Imagine playing Warcraft in World of Warcraft!

@@javelinmaster2 Right? I never understood why Darkmoon Faire is only around for a few days a month. At least when I still went it wasn't like it had anything truly gamebreaking you could unlock there it was just more some fun transmogs and derpy minigames that I liked to do. Everytime I was in the mood to blow off some steam and do that I was annoyed I had just missed it. Meanwhile 14 has me seriously debating at times do I go out with friends or stay in and have a blast at some in game club?

But... you weren't?

I was thinking about a joke... but I couldn't really find an obvious way that made sense with the video. So I kept it serious. What did you think?

@@Professor_Popo The lead WoW game developer never even discussing the concept of community is depressing so I feel like any joke that has even a chance of working would have to be about being disappointed or depressed. Or maybe a clip from a show or cartoon where someone is searching for something and can’t believe that the thing isn’t where they are searching and you edit some text to show the thing being searched for is Zion’s opinion on community building. Honestly I think leaving it with no joke was a great move and helps the audience to feel the disappointment you felt when you couldn’t find any Ion clips. It feels like the video is incomplete but that accurately reflects the situation at hand so it works.

@@yellowbeard1 Nicely put. I didnt really think about making a joke at the end, I wasnt waiting for a pun or anything. The music was just too sober for that, and yes, the fact that there are no clips with Ion where he even talkes about this speeks volumes...

Reading your comment actually makes me feel bad for people who wants to RP and get abandoned by their own RP community due to concept conflict. Every MMO has the RP community to be honest so I don't think RP is something special and unique from FF. I hope you find an RP group who accepts who you are and share the same collective mindset. I think 9.2 will be much better for WoW scene and I hope so. Cause I don't want FF to be the top, at least not at the moment. P.s.: regarding the official dedicated RP servers, every Data Center in FF has their own RP servers and they RP all the time I tell you (yup, I'm looking at you Balmung, Crystal, do you know that your whole Data Center has less than 1% TEA ultimate clear, OMG, how is that possible? Less than 1%...)

@@binhhoangbapham7231 Thank you so much for your kind words! It wasn't all bad in WoW, as I alluded to I had great times RPing there as well. Made some friends for life there, and we formed our own community rejecting the RP bullies. They tried to destroy that community once and almost succeeded but we came back stronger! Ultimately it took the lawsuits against Blizz to tear it apart again. As for RP in FF, I know there's unofficial RP realms yeah. I have been tentatively checking them out and I hope to get more involved with it as I get used to the differences with what I am used to from WoW :)

dude! the only thing that kept me playing was rp in wow on moonguard. the grand alliance and the clicks, my story has to fall into line of the lore if not, then your kicked from everything! and hated! no creativity, and the lore, they decide what is lore and what isnt, example, the horde and the alliance working together, they decided during the tropical sunder, thats the exception. they choose to make that cause certain people would stop rping with folks. it was that server, back in may, i left wow for good. the rp in ff14 is slow, but old school, due to no addons like trp3 or dicemaster. but there is sites that makes cards for your story :D

Balmung gets memed on as the crystal erp captital, but as a balmung local there's a metric crapton of cool vanilla rps you can go to in every corner of the world. Did you know every Saturday is an RP fighting competition called the grindstone? The people who run it have been hosting it since 2.0 iirc. I've been in servers that had tons of people of all themes, from an entire ishgardian community, to people roleplaying over several month long war campaigns in the bozjan southern front, to more public friendly festivals and performances; its rather nuts what the game allows you to get away with. And they aren't small groups either, you have dozens of people show up to these.

@@akaru9532 wtf! o.o i am on bal and maet. didnt know about this!

Same. I was hanging in there for funny clown music when the WoW part hit and.... then we get an honest admission, in plain text, that there's really nothing comparable to the kind of heartfelt, considered thoughts about community and content production that Yoshi-P has given us. It hits hard. I've been away from WoW for years, but I remember it like a place I once lived, and every time I check back on the news there it's dismaying and saddening....

The true nobility of FF, the hardcore crafters. You keep going my guy.

@@jccdsym6605 thank you! If you ever visit Fairie, I will be glad to craft you some gear on the house 👍🏻

@@geekatari4391 I appreciate the offer!

Agreed... but unfortunate that a lot of the bad work environment stuff happened under their watch... and unfortunately as a leader you have to hold yourself responsible for those things and they failed in that mission. It's sad because I really admired both of them a lot.

IN the Noclip documentary about FF14, Yoshi told a story about going from store to store, desperately trying to find a Japanese copy of Everquest on launch day.

Very nice analysis. Thank you for sharing!

Ion is a hardcore raider, fostering community doesnt kill bosses and get epic loot. which is why he was a terrible choice for lead dev. you need someone who is more well rounded and understands the importance of all playstyles.

The worst part about that story... is this is the kind of behavior that that game and that community endorses. It's such an enormously dysfunctional hellscape that treating people like trash is the norm, it's a societal standard there. So much so that it they take it out of the game as well and treat their friends that way. For example I had a friend that didn't agree with me that the WoW token was basically RMT and they started hurling all kinds of insults at me despite me never once insulting them and then acted like I was in the wrong to take offense to that kind of behavior. They actually think people who are not toxic pieces of shit to each other are toxic, the whole thing is flipped. And then when all their friends quit the game, they wonder why they are alone.

Me either, sadly.

I'm not super familiar with many other MMOs...I played a good bit of SWTOR but it's been quite a few years since I really delved into that. Used to play GW2 as well... but it's been a number of years there too... but I've been considering picking that back up to. Might be awhile before I get to make those videos because I want to be sure of what I'm talking about. Thanks for watching and the suggestions!

@@Professor_Popo thanks for reading my comment. and its cool that you are considering doing that. keep doing the good work.

GW2 has a good community and the game is vast with all the expansions. The whole main game is free to try with just a few inconveniences such as a limit of 2 characters and a few other things. The only thing for new players, at first, it can feel strange as the game doesn't force you into anything, you are free to go your own way and just explore

The Noclip documentary about the fall and rise of FF14 has interviews where he talked about running around, trying to find copies of Everquest on launch day. Same documentary, he talked about how he made the dev team sit down and play other contemporary MMOs like WoW, because the rest of the team was stuck in the past just trying to remake FF1 and expecting the Final Fantasy brand to carry them. Then in another interview about FF14 "beating "WoW', he talked about how he doesn't like that, and how he really respects WoW for how it revolutionized the MMO genre.

@@kainhighwind2 oh yea just saw that a couple days ago thats amazing

FF14 devs: "We are humbled by our community, and want to make a game that appeals to everyone, no matter what kind of player they are." WoW devs: "You think you want it, but you don't."

On the other hand, here in Brazil we have the same problems when trying to play a korean game (not just korean tbh). Out of curiosity, there is a specific reason for the game force you guys in the Korean server? Like some type of bank problem as you said here? Thats odd because i can access almost any server even with a brazilian PSN. Maybe its something with PCs?

Not the best comparison XD lore wise anyway

They've got a great free trial! Completely free including the first expansion.

Have you tried the expanded Free Trial of our critically acclaimed MMORPG FFXIV? You can play through the entirety of A Realm Reborn and the award-winning Heavensward expansion up to level 60 for FREE with no restrictions on playtime! 😲

@@febymega7001 My problem with the game is honestly nothing the game is at fault for. I am sure it is a good game, but I really am not a fan of the art style, and that is unfortunately kind of a foundational thing. Personally I am much more into Guild Wars.

I agree. I've been a fan of Warcraft since Warcraft II. I remember Blizzard's early mantra with regards to their games of "We'll release it when it's ready." I rode the highs of launch through vanilla, BC, and the peak of Wrath. Then they started the systemic changes in Cata and began to "dumb down" the game for "broader audience appeal", which continued even more into MoP with ability pruning and class homogenization and I was out of there. I came back in 7.2 in Legion and fell in love with it all over again, but BfA shook me and I was done a month into Shadowlands once the curtain was pulled off the rusty, creaky guts of the unending treadmill of chores that was considered "content". After the recent lawsuits came out and Blizzard promised a "change", I got hopeful. But it looks like the changes they're implementing have nothing to do with making a better game. Turning portraits of women into fruit. Removing jokes and flirt voice lines. Removing the /spit emote. Really, Blizzard? Your game is a flaming dumpster fire and your company is falling apart around your ears, and these are the changes that you deem critically important to renew your fans' faith in you? Then datamining of the recent 9.2 patch has come out showing that the core "fun" "lore" feature of the patch is not only time gating, but time gated to the point where it would take months to unlock it all. And that's not even months of content - it's just weeks of sitting around, waiting for a timer to finish rolling over. They have truly lost their way. The people at that company are standing on the shoulders of giants, and instead of learning lessons from the good and bad both, they're ignoring the good and simply trying to whitewash the bad.

I wish they would have given you more tools to have fun RPing.

@@Professor_Popo Instances for RP would be nice, story scenarios where you and party can complete via various methods to earn title base on actions (like in Torghast), join via raid finder, so people can RP safely inside instances and know what story they're attending. They could've use instances for player housing long ago too, even guild house would suffice, but somehow they thought raiding is the only way to do WoW. This is what happens when you let an Everquest paladin-hater in charge of the game.

To be honest I never played WoW (except or two weeks few years ago) and I already didn't like the game from the things I heared from other persons. Most things where from the ingame community. But I think it's sad that this "old" game is now dying. If it would die because there is nothing new and the players stopped because of that... okay. That would be kinda dying by a "natural cause". But WoW... is kinda getting killed. And that's what is sad about it in my eyes.

I'm probably the sort of woke person you hate, but I don't think anyone asked Blizzard for a lot of their weird decisions lately. I never hated or complained about the game content, I wanted them to treat their workers better and resolve their concerns. Instead they replaced paintings with fruit. I don't think anyone is satisfied by that.

Sorry I tried to find one!

@@Professor_Popo I know. Its not your fault the wow dev don’t have any discussion on this topic which really effects the longevity of the game. For example, the only reason league of legends survive this long is because of the community and culture it created.

Aimi's great. She's really been rising to prominence with recent interviews. Honestly, I think one of the best things about Yoshi-P is his ability to build an amazing team around himself, and keep them together. Masayoshi Soken, Foxclon, Koji Fox, Banri Oda, Natsuko Ishikawa, now Aimi Tokutake... They're all amazing talents who've somehow managed to avoid getting rockstar egos, and who come together to create something they clearly love. They're humble and grateful for the appreciation the fans show them, and they're dedicated to making the game the best it can be.

Bigger doesn't mean better. In fact one could argue that's one of the reasons it's floundering. It has all these players but is unable to sustain or make them happy any longer. As for the addon and tracking things, that is also part of WoW's ongoing (non-Company related) problems and why Yoshi doesn't want them in XIV. They do nothing but breed contempt and force players to only play so their numbers get bigger. Nothing else matters. Sure people will say "I only run DPS meters for myself so I can see where I need improvement." but that's a bold faced lie 99.9% of the time. People use the meters so they know who to target for kicking and ridiculing.

Very right here... I am incredibly sad about the state of WoW and Blizzard as a company. With everything going on there, I feel disrespected as a customer and player, and I wish they would just listen to their players because we love Azeroth and the Warcraft universe... but at every turn for many years now I feel like they've been pushing us away. The horrific revelations from the lawsuits recently was literally the "straw that broke the camel's back" for me. I can never look at that company the same way again... but I'm happy to be able to make Eorzea my new home. I'm very happy here.