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I believe that you are spot on about the fact that a lot of new small tractor owners have way higher expectations of what their tractor is capable of than they really are. I was one of them. That being said, I am still amazed at what they actually are capable of. I bought a 2007 John Deere 2305 about 4 years ago with 400 hrs. on it. It was basically like brand new. The paint was still in the loader bucket and I don't think that the backhoe had ever been used. I think that it had only been used for mowing grass. I wouldn't trade that tractor for anything. You are also right about inflation and what it has done to the average homeowner that would have been in the market for a tractor. I believe that a lot of people would love to go out and buy a tractor simply can't afford it now. A year and a half ago I bought a new tiller. At the time I paid approximately $1800. for it. Now the price has gone up well over $2000. I wouldn't be able to afford it now. I hope sincerely that things get back to the way they were. Sorry, I get a little long winded sometimes. 😁 God bless.
YES you are Right my Friend. For me I bought a very USED (8000 hour) construction type of Backhoe (Dynahoe-190) which is (19000) Pounds. It needed lots of work to it when I bought it. My wife wrote up great contact, if repairs were more than down payment. That was the price for Backhoe. The Brakes did NOT function. The one stabilize would NOT function. And the two front Loader Lifts LEAKED like an open Artery. I had found a great local repair shop. One of the workers had sold Dynahoe's in the 1980s. He knew them inside and out. I have put hundreds of hours on her since 2003. No work or rebuilding of the Engine a wonderful Detroit Diesel 353. Just keep the filters clean, OIL clean. I have a small piece of property. I used it to make a small garden plot in the corner of the property. I pulled out my Driveway for replacement. I am installing a swim spa for my wife. I think I would have spent way more time moving dirt with subcompact Tractor to make flat roads to deliver the spa into place on the back side of my house. Very fast work moving dirt, moving my Wood pile. Smoothing a flat surface pad for delivery of spa with forklift machine the company uses. Just saying that my LARGE Backhoe does it for me, more than a subcompact. If a person is willing to have repairs done on a used piece of equipment Then I think they need a construction size Backhoe more than a subcompact. Like he said I can rent from Home Depot any subcompact Tractor with attachment if need be. When the contractor was grading my Driveway replacement. He had to have the rental company come out and replace one of the Rubber tracks on the mini excavator, it split the Rubber. So even a mini excavator broke down. I ended up finishing the haul out of his material to the garden stock pile. I look at my small garden as a strip mine. My big Backhoe I completely turn the whole garden over each year. Like a strip mine moving overburden. My Backhoe is way oversized, but it has done every project I do in my small lot. Never an issue with power, even taking out LARGE tree stumps.
Right, I bought my skid steer 2 plus years ago it was a 2022 modle, price went up from the 58K I paid to over 94K for the 2023... unfortunately we can't print money like the federal government so most of us are SOL. That said the prices of livestock seems immune to inflation as far as the producer payout goes has not changed in over a decade, yet it costs 8x in the store. Big slaughterhouses making a killing in more ways than one.
I believe r4 tire became so popular because they were the only tire between the r1 and turf tires. You do get better traction in mud with r4s over truf tires and still don't tear up a yard as bad as r1 tires. I know now there are other options that can do both and give you better mud traction. These other tire options usually cost more then r4s and are limited tire sizes to chose from. The r4s also have heavier ply tires then the others for frontend loader work.
Exactly. If the R4 was that inferior it would have been abandoned 30-40+ years ago by the constitution industry. Yes the R4 is a compromise design. Not specifically for any one application. (Except high durability was purposely engineered into the R4.)
Thanks Chris and Courtney! I paid $22,000+/- for my (then new) 1025R TLBMMM in 2018 and was at the dealership a month ago. The same combination is now $35,000 for a new one.
I have actually seen some really really good deals in the used market around here in Indiana. Don't forget you can always borrow a skid steer but that's really the difference skid steers are one of the greatest inventions.
I have a Grand L 4060 with R4 tires. It doesn't tear my grass to shreds but I can still move dirt very easy. Good enough grip without the price of destroying grass that takes years to groom.
That's funny you being up the hydraulic speed. A few years ago I was looking for a log splitter and a 3 point hitch one was basically the same price as a self contained one with wheels and its own motor and pump. And the self contained one works a lot faster. Plus it doesn't hold up the tractor .
Most of the tractors are built as cheaply as possible and not like the earlier days built to do the job and survive. Unfortunately the only way the prices will come down is foreign made tractors, hopefully built to survive and not to be as cheap as possible. I agree on the tires. Great Video.
I like the “choose the right size” point that you made. I just finished 100 hour review of my Massey Ferguson 1825e, and I can’t believe I missed that point. For my application the full size compact tractors like the one I have are a little to small for some of my projects and a little too big and heavy for other jobs, but buying two separate machines was not an option for me so counterintuitively the tractor that is not perfect for most my jobs ended up being the most perfect tractor overall. Thank you for another great video!
These tractors always impress me as to what they can do! Lift more than I can, move material to wherever it needs to go, mow large open areas, etc. Easy to operate, cost less than a skid steer and don't damage lawn areas so much. Good points on lift capacity and lift height. As said, do your homework before $$.
Great video, all relevant points. I run a small 40 acre ranch, a couple of years ago I upgraded our old Deere 3010 (1962 built). With the prices so high on the 3 and 4x series tractors I decided on a green 320G skid steer as a replacement. Right off the get go I noticed the difference in ground clearance in mud. Next thing that wasn't pointed out at the time was how inconvenient opening the front door to get out is when you can not lower your attachment (think getting stuck in deep snow with a snow blower you can't lower or use to push yourself out with). On the snow blower topic, it was the first time I ran into the High Flow/ Low Flow hydraulic options.. the 320G being almost $35000 less than the high flow hydraulic equivalent, you are limited in the modle and throw distance. Yes those Ag tires on ice are a real safety issue, and you lose ability to turn tight with chains on without breaking them. Can't really weight your tires on the unit because they are so small so you use the bolt on weights they sell at a premium. Those weights made lifting 1800lb large round bales a lot safer. All complaints aside, I've found with a bit of operator experience in keeping the snow bucket low enough to take off anything that will break your traction without grabbing onto too much hard pack or ground to create extra resistance you can push the 84 inch HLA snow bucket through snow as tall as the bucket and as long as you don't get too much falling over the top to where your wheels start to spin in it, you can push right through. Could not do this without weights and the small work bucket even, those weights were a game changer. Looked at the wolf paw tires/rims and cried when I saw the extra cost, I run 100% on dirt and gravel and not sure they would last as long as the OEM bads.
Yep .... all true. After working with a JD630 and Massey35 on 80 acres for 20yrs I decided I needed something better as I get into my 70's. Did do diligence ..... researched the multitude of Makes & Models ..... kind-of set my sights on a tractor hp of 55-60. Settled on the Make (Kioti) and found a dealer 52 miles away (that's a short distance for Wyoming). Went into the dealer with a listing of what I needed to do and the implements to accomplish it. So .... they showed me the RX73 hp model. Tried it out .... thinking I don't need this much power. Then went to the NS60 hp. The dealer asked if I remember "Tim-the-Toolman - Taylor". He was Soooooooo right .... "More Power"!!!! Could I have gotten by with the 60 hp model????? Yaaahhhh ..... BUT ... 4x4x8' hay bales is a breeze with the RX73 where as the 60 hp might be intimating the Massey 35 saying .... "I think I can .... I think I can."
When I got my kioti dk4210se I had the dealer set the wheels up as wide as possible and loaded the rears. I don’t think they typically set them up that wide because He was like you sure that’s wide. Ya I’m sure in the woods you never know what terrain is gonna be.
honestly, the 2610 now 2620 solves takes a huge swing at most complaints on this list. 1800lbs lift, way more hydrolic flow than competition, good weight, r14 tires, etc. people buying green and orange for way more money getting way less tractor.
You so right in 15 yrs of trying to fine the one tractor that will do all I want. I’ve had 4 tractor. And to this day still can’t fine that right tractor. Having two tractors is way to costly.
Tractors are a compromise unless you are pulling hard on the drawbar or 3 point. The hydrostatic transmission is a compromise even to that task. Loaders on a tractor are all wrong. Weight is carried on the small axle!!!?? Amazing to me that the conventional rigid frame farm tractor has become the most popular design for so many people who will never use a ground engaging implement on the rear! However- cost is very economical compared to a mini loader or skid steer that would be better suited for many homeowners. Hydrostatics make these units more useable for the average weekend project. I farm and I get a lot of enjoyment out of my “little” 75 hp TYM. I used to use my big tractors for everything around the home place. The smaller tractor has paid for itself in fuel savings alone. And the utility platform is a lot easier to mount and dismount than a large row crop when doing chores.
True, the design of smaller tractors is pretty strange. There are alternatives like Ventrac where a small tractor is reimagined. Some Italian brands like Antonio Carraro build tractors so the big wheel can be the front wheel and loaders can be mounted at the front. The PTO and three point hitch are such versatile and popular connections and powering a PTO is pretty cheap compared to hydraulic power. These are the a few reasons why the standard framed tractor is so dominant.
Great video! I got B2601 4 years ago and it’s been good to me. One thing I worry about though is when the day comes I have to transport it. I have no trailer and I’m literally 2 hours from the nearest dealer.
There are people around who will transport a tractor for a fee. Even a tow company with a tilt tray truck will do it but being two hours away it would not be cheap to transport a tractor this way. It is fairly probable the tractor never needs to go back to the dealer if it is looked after and does not suffer from a big fault or accident. So maybe the day the tractor needs to be in a workshop will never occur.
I have been eyeballing the Merlo MultiFarmer MF34.7 CS in context of lifting long, heavy, oak logs for saw milling and timber framing as well as homestead upkeep and misc projects. Very expensive at around $140K new, but basically a 17.6K+ lb telehandler with a 7.5K lb max lift capacity and a rear 108 HP PTO with 3-point hitch with 6.6K lbs lift capacity and the additional benefit of having selectable front wheel steer, 4-wheel steer, or crab steer. A bit over 7' wide, 8' tall, almost 18' long with 17" of ground clearance. Main hydraulic flow is 40 gpm.
I’ve had my 4320 JD compact for 17 years and battery finely died. I have 750 hours on it. Purchased in Alaska moved to Arizona then on to Tennessee. Still runs great, paints a little faded from sitting outside. But is under cover now.
One point that you didn't mention was being able to see the edge of your bucket from the seat. Yeah to can put a piece of tape on the rod of the loader but me personally I'd prefer physically seeing the edge of my blade. Great video though, keep up the awesome content.
Mine came without a rod so I am constantly hanging over the arm rests to see where my bucket is. The level sticker on the bucket is a total worthless scam. Don't know why Kubota even puts them on.
Weight isn’t the only tipping factor. These small tractors are really narrow and that makes them very easy to tip. Case in point, your video of the Kubota tipping on its side. That said, older tractors are top heavy too. They sit high and can tip easily on side hills.
You could sipe the r4 tires that would work good for plowing snow. I seen a guy do that on a front end loader. Made a big difference as far as traction on snow and ice. Granted it’s a heavy machine. Just a thought
Thanks for your channel. I've learned a lot and respect your knowledge and opinions. I have to ask, why do you never mention Massey Ferguson machines? They're one of the top manufacturers of tractors, and seem pretty economically priced compared to JD and Kubota for the same power range equipment.
Glad I've been of help! I normally don't mention the majority of brands as they represent a very small market share collectively. I will mention them on occasion. I get a couple hundred emails a day and customers submit their tractor make and model with their email. I don't recall seeing a single Massey model in the last few days. They aren't that popular in the compact world.
While your point of buying the correct size is more than a valid point what will end up happening is that as prices go up and people can not afford what the size is they really need they will start looking at and purchasing smaller tractors in the price range they can afford.
I got rid of a Ford 2110 for a couple of reasons, mainly it just didn't have enough weight or reach with a loader. I have bigger tractors and it didn't fit in my operation at the time. I do lots more with a large skid steer and use a 60 hp tractor where I used the 35 hp Ford. The difference in fuel isn't enough per job. Yes it was less per hour but took more time. Purchase price is another.
I’ve got a KiotiDK35SE. It’s got 2400 hours now. Used for loader work. I absolutely love this tractor 110%. Bought it brand new. Got loaded R4. Only tractor I’ve ever been 100% satisfied with.
Like the video, Any chance you can do one on the different tires available for compact tractors? Most dealers only show Ag, R4 and turf and call it at that. Love to see what other options there are. About size and weight. I would rather have a 30hp L series over a 30hp B. (I happen to have an L3130 with a L723 loader). Simply because you have the weight and the larger tires for traction. Most things done with a tractor do not necessarily need a lot of HP. Having that extra weight from ballasted larger tires helps more for traction and lifting capacity than that bigger engine. The only time I wish I had more HP is when I'm running a rotary cutter and as I only mow a few smaller fields I can get away without it. I will say that I use mine more for logging and dirt work than field work.
Would love to see you do a review of a bobcat toolcat whether it's the three-point version or the tilt bed version, it has the lift capacity that you're talkin about and the hydraulic flow that you want
Good points. Also during supply shortage, appropriate sized and available tractors were hard to get… I ended up buying a larger and a smaller tractor in a combined financing deal and have appropriate jobs for each sized tractor…. Not everybody can do that, I was fortunate…
I would add to this list the new diesels over 26HP requiring emissions baloney. Also, regarding loaded tires, my Kubota BX-25 manual recommends against loaded the tires on this machine if you are running the back hoe. And regarding loaded tires, if I had to do it again, I would have my tires foamed--no PSI to worry about or flats!
I think featherweight tractors became a thing when the market for homeowners, property managers, landscapers etc exploded. A light tractor won't tear up and rut up lawns the way a heavy old beast will. And that's where a lot of these tractors live much of the time. Even our old 1940's Farmall A, a very small tractor, left ruts in our lawn, if it was at all soft. They aren't working in tilled soil, or muddy barnyards, and typically arent doing heavy tillage or draft work. They're more like a bigger, better kitted out lawn tractor that can do FAR more jobs. You also have to consider the need for many to trailer their tractor around from property to property, and job to job. A lighter tractor is a big plus in those situations.
The tire options are horrible, our JD 4710 had R4s and so does out 4720, finally seeing the R14 come out. hopefully be less stiff with more side hill traction might help ??
Not so much, things I hate but rather, things to be aware of. Hydraulics. "One pump to rule them all" is the issue. It can only deliver so much. Also, I added a third function but was surprised that rear hydraulics weren't included. Newbie! Size matters. I decided to go bigger than I wanted and got the 1025R. Should have gone to at least a 3 series. My wife bought a biga$$ cabinet and I could basically lower it off the truck and keep it about 2 inches off the ground. Counterweight is your friend. Weight. Needed to but suitcase weights from some yahoo in Michigan. Why didn't the salesman recommend them? Tires. I haven't had a issue with these tires but I will probably get chains next winter. Have a great day!
Thanks for your channel. One thing I miss is channels with red tractors. Many folks opt for the lesser expensive tractors but the primary channels appear to promote primarily orange and green tractors. The summit is slower to market than anticipated. I’m not criticizing your work. I greatly appreciate all the information you provide. I’m only trying to understand reasoning for the prevalence of orange and green. My first thought is that those corporations loan out equipment to the more popular channels. Is orange and green marketing plans the primary reason? I don’t blame anyone for taking advantage of such programs. Just wanting to understand better. Thanks again for all you do.
Hey check out a kubota m62 i have one and it fixes alot of these issues 16gpm flow on front loader will lift 3960 lbs to full height plus you can get 14ft backhoe 46hp pto power
The only thing I really hate on my Kubota BX23S.. is the seat pivot.. to get access to the backhoe.. it seems to fight me every time.. it's annoying.. the rest is great
I wish I knew I needed more power before I purchased my LX2610. Don’t get me wrong, My Mighty Mouse still gets the job done, but it really struggles pushing or pulling heavy loads up hill. I’m pretty sure if I had 25-40 more horsepower, I wouldn’t have to crawl up hills with a full box blade full of stone.
The common mistake seems to be everyone trying to avoid the DPF systems and choosing smaller tractors than what is required. I ended up with a 35hp with a cab and love it.
Tires on tractors are like tires on cars you need different tires for different conditions here in the south a lot of us really prefer the R4 over the R1 or the turf tires
I noticed in your video that, what appears to be a 1025 in the background, has a canopy that looks interesting. My ROPS is so far above me I could put a sun deck on it. May I possibly get the name of manufacture of the canopy? Another question is, do you have any idea how much of snow load it can handle? Thank you. By the way. I really enjoy your videos, very informative, including the rants and raves...
My Branson 5835R doesn't even run! 2 years old, back to the dealer for a 3rd time! And I can't even get it there right now because of snow. I'm at 8600 ft in Colorado, and need to keep a 1/2 mile of road open to get to my barn, so I can feed and water horses. 1/2 down the road is where I store hay and the tractor. there it sits in the shed, while I rent hire and beg for snow removal help. This tractor is quite simple, yet it won't work in the cold! Don't buy a branson! Now TYM....
Whats the better tire for all around work on a tractor from snow, mud, mowing? R4s or R14s. In the process of buying a tractor and have gotten conflicting answers between these two tire from different dealers.
We've got a JD dealership near us in NH, would Summit be able to be serviced by Deere? It's between JD, Summit or Bad Boy. Got to watch... More... Videos.
R14s are the best, but they are hard to get. Now Kubota has a new exclusive tire that is is similar to a R4 but has been grooved. Similar to grooving the R4s that Courtney did a while back.
R14 is the new "darling" of the industry. Good traction of pavement (no wandering on pavement), dirt, grass, snow. If you do lots of snowplowing, you'll still need good chains though.
Because the majority of applications don't require high flow. Increasing the flow means bigger pumps, larger hoses, larger fittings. That adds cost to the tractor that the majority of users don't need. Basically, only things that spin need high flow rates. Hydraulic cylinders will move a little faster, but your grapple opening in 3.2 seconds vs 2.9 isn't noticeable. All these tractor designs are optimized for the market that particular model is targeted at. Price is very much a consideration in any given model, and it has to be. A company doesn't stay in business by making 0% profit. Most companies do target market surveys, look at historical sales data, and customer feedback to factor in what features are necessary at what price point to sell a given number of units into a particular market. As individuals we may not always agree with a decision they've made on whether a feature is present or not, or how that feature is implemented, but that design decision was made to satisfy the majority of users, not every single user.
If you're making money with the tractor, buy the size required for you to get paid...as long as it pays for itself. If you're not going to make money with it, then its just going to be an expense like any other toy....so buy what you want.
Any dealer selling loader tractors without liquid filled tires should be avoided at all costs... Liquid filling has come a long way since the calcium chloride days 50 years ago. Liability. Loved the stooge-a-thon video of the tractor tipping. Looked like another drunken weekend project gone bad.
Something new that is coming out. About people buying land. Because most land you need a good tractor. Most people's jobs hardly pay for land costs. Now they need the equipment to work the land and those prices as you say out of reach. Yet. No different with new vehicle prices as well. Land is a good truck, trailer, and tractor. That's over $150,000. Then you have payments and taxes to pay. At 90% of the jobs available. No one can afford it. As I said. I bought my land in the first week of January 2020. I could afford everything. On January 20, 2020. That ended for me. 935 miles away. The gas prices alone gets me to just get there and back. Before. Oh no. Way easy. January 30, 2020 ruined it all for all of us.
it is really funny when some one complains about the price of a tractor that will last them 40+ years and is willing to spend $70.00+ on a SUV or Pickup that in 10 years lose more value then the purchase price of the tractor
When tractor shopping make sure you get the right size for what you’re going to use it for because if you buy the wrong size tractor you just wasted money on the wrong one so always buy the right one for your operation you intend to use it for
Tractors will get like trucks. They will be priced so far above MARP that the back will only loan so much so the buyer has to come out of pocket more. Product doesn’t move prices will come down
