Cameo vs 1st Appearance

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We've done the impossible! We've come up with a definition as a community to give to what makes a "Cameo" a 1st appearance in the eyes of collectors! With our new formula we revisit classic debates on cameo vs first appearances to see what remains a cameo and what gets bumped up to the elite (albeit subjectively given) "first appearance" status. This was a lot of fun and was most requested video to date!
#Cameo #FirstAppearance #Definition
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0:00 Defining "Cameo"
3:24 Wolverine (180)
5:00 Venom (Amazing Spider-man 299)
7:06 Carnage (Amazing Spider-man 360)
7:54 Mary Jane (Amazing Spider-man 25)
8:55 Gambit (X-Men Annual 14)
10:09 Mystique (Ms. Marvel 16)
11:11 Doomsday (Man of Steel 17)
12:00 Miracle Molly (Batman 106)
12:36 Heartless (Nightwing 79)
13:12 Larfleeze/Atrocitus (Green Lantern 25)
14:05 Killer Croc (Detective Comics 523)
15:00 Punchline (Batman 89)
15:23 Jason Todd (Batman 357)
15:38 Darkseid (Jimmy Olsen 134)
16:23 Batman Beyond (Batman/Superman 22)
16:52 Closing Thoughts

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Опубликовано:

6 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 403

@roywatson7916 3 года назад

To me a cameo is a glimpse at a character. A first appearance you get to see who that character is and learn their name and some of what they can do. A first full appearance they are part of the story. Now the first appearance of Gambit and like characters when dealing with publication dates consider continuity. Great job in breaking it down.

@chrisingram5777 3 года назад

Well said.

@Supertomscustoms 3 года назад

There's only one way to settle this debate and that's to eliminate the "cameo" distinction completely. If they appear in a comic for the first time, regardless of numbers of panels or dialogue, then that's their "First appearance" and there's nothing to argue about. Now that doesn't mean the market can't still favor their second appearance, which honestly is almost always determined by which cover is better.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

I like the distinction of cameo. I don't look at it so literally as the "first app" the majority of collectors use cameos to describe a soft 1st app

@RetailSorcerer 2 года назад

As a new collector I like first appearance vs first full appearance

@DCPatrol 3 года назад

I really appreciate your approach and calmness. You work through your methods. Great job!

@thecommondude 3 года назад

I just recently got into comic books and honestly I have never really understood why there is a distinction between first appearance and first full appearance. This vid really cleared it up for me! I do however consider any sort of a reveal of the character (even if it's a shadow) as a cameo :) congrats on 8000 subs btw! And keep up the good work!

@Ravensflock89 2 года назад

I totally agree with you that 299 is the first appearance of Venom and that 298 is a cameo.

@MintHunterComics 2 года назад

No doubt!

@MrDeathstar69 3 года назад

Thank you for covering this topic. I really enjoyed you explaining the difference.

@AidenHackley 3 года назад

I've never even really thought about the distinction tbh, typically I just go off if what Key Collector says

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Hahaha Key Collector is pretty accurate out of all the apps I will say

@paulholloway9760 3 года назад

Key Collector makes a lot of mistakes on appearances, I don't trust them at all.

@PreservingSweetness 3 года назад

Looking forward to more of this type of content. Thanks.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

More to come!

@naureennaqvi8442 3 года назад

Good news I’m going to upgrade my membership the comic book I was gonna get sold out so I figured I’ll just upgrade

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Oh hell yeah! Welcome to the extended club!

@jorgeflores5522 3 года назад

Great video as always! Thanks for the info.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Thanks for watching!

@robertbaker4811 3 года назад

Great video James. It's a debate that will rage forever however first "full" will in most cases always be more sought after.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

This is most certainly true

@marvelvsdc6611 3 года назад

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of Hulk 180 being more than a cameo! Subbed!!! 👍🏼

@bakiganzo2946 3 года назад

Awesome information and I couldn’t agree more. Great video 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻

@Naf1400 3 года назад

Great stuff as always man.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Glad you enjoyed!!!

@saroly16 3 года назад

I want that run!! Nice video :)

@Vp-jt3vl 3 года назад

Wow dude, very useful info as always. I learnt a lot, keep up the vids dude!

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

My pleasure VP!

@gman-ts8bf 3 года назад

Great video, really enjoying your videos, keep it up

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Thanks my man!

@MrStinkycableguy 3 года назад

Excellent video and certainly a good topic of discussion. Thanks James!

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Glad it was helpful!

@MasterSplinter79 3 года назад

Haha this is soooo interesting! Thanks for the great video!

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Thanks Jarno!

@ColsonsComics 3 года назад

I think cameos are smaller appearances with a few panels like you said in the beginning. First appearances may feature the character in the cover and have a large presence in the comic. Just what I thought.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

That aligns with our definition! Cheers DK League!

@matiasbasto6524 3 года назад

Amazing breakdown over cameos and appearance!

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

I'm glad you think so!

@timfinney9468 2 года назад

Love the videos and your candid comments!

@djderkey 3 года назад

I am 100% behind having a cameo and a first separately.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Indeed. -same here

@williamsantana6594 3 года назад

Thank you for sharing your knowledge I really appreciate it.

@joelatorre 3 года назад

Your getting that Carnage issue signed and getting that awesome yellow signature series label yes!!! 😆👍

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Can't wait!

@stevewhite4533 3 года назад

These distinctions will be argued for the rest of history, but I like your take on this. For me, I am OG and when a character appears, it is a first appearance

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Appreciate your take Steve!

@Road-Kill-1991 3 года назад

Great video love the info never thought of these keys in that way lol

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Glad it was helpful!

@KThayerart 3 года назад

Excellent work!

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Ayyyy thank you!

@AutomaticPoker 3 года назад

Great video, thanks! I remember back in 5th grade one of my teachers had a copy of Hulk 180 and 181 on her bookshelf. I read those books probably 100 times back then. I wish I had them both now.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

You had way cooler teachers than I ever did that's for sure!

@paulharper9711 3 года назад

Great video. It really opens up the perspective of cameo vs 1st appearance. 👍🏻

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Thanks Paul!

@ThorLord8 3 года назад

Congratulations on closing in on 8k!

@silverbeernuts4229 2 года назад

Excellent! Great job!

@MintHunterComics 2 года назад

Thank you very much! you won the members giveaway my man!

@FascinatingFlounder 3 года назад

Wolverines “cameo” feels more like a first appearance to me

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

It still may to many people! but by our criteria it's bumped up

@brickhunter9537 3 года назад

@@MintHunterComics in that case Using the same criteria, isn’t Venoms 1st app ASM 299 not 300?

@JernosComicsPopCulture 3 года назад

It is both. It is a first appearance, in cameo.

@hassanbukhari843 3 года назад

Damn a entire run I thought you would have wanted to keep that cuz you really seem to like the knightfall series and shows of the bat is right after it

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

True but I want to make sure I take care of the comic community first and foremost!

@e2comiccollector101 3 года назад

A first appearance, is a first appearance. It doesn't matter if it's only one panel. A couple of 1st appearances to consider: Yelena Belova's first appearance in Inhumans #5 is another book that is being overlooked in favor of Black Widow #1, particularly the 1 in 4 variant. Catalina Chavez actually appears in one panel in America Cavez: Made in America #1, and she appears in multiple panels/pages in issue #2. However, speculators were jumping on issue #3.

@davebratton1702 3 года назад

I think the Superman: MoS arm shot of Doomsday, although in a few panels with the character being named, falls into the cameo category given that it really shows about half of one arm of the character. My two cents. Terrific video!

@jesselundberg7264 3 года назад

I like your breakdown of cameo vs first appearance.

@mikegonzalez503 3 года назад

Hulk 181, to me, is the comic that truly matters for Wolverine.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Most would agree BUT 180 meets all of our criteria!

@azb-comics 3 года назад

Agree

@50TBRD 3 года назад

I think a lot of the cameo v full appearance debate is just about giving comic books significance when there wouldn’t otherwise be significance to them. First cameo, first appearance, first cover, first solo story, first fight between blank and blank, first silver age appearance (no one ever says first bronze or copper age appearance).

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

I say first bronze and copper appearance! lolol

@fanglord13 3 года назад

On Darkseid, and following your rules, Jimmy Olsen 135 is his first appearance. Appears on two panels, dialogue across two panels, plus has a look closer to what we know today. Another odd is Grail (Darkseid’s daughter). Justice League 40 is a cameo (one panel only, face concealed), FCBD divergence is her first appearance (multiple panels, dialogue), and Justice League 41 is first full

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Good catch Rob - I missed that one! I agree with Grail

@briguy_3840 3 года назад

I think you really hit on something with this video. I think you’re right. Fans tend to favor the better cover as the first appearance if it’s up for debate.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

It's all about that ART that drives a comic hahaha

@MadPunky 3 года назад

@8:55 I agree. I'd like to see a viewer poll vote on X-Men Annual #14 vs Uncanny X-men #266 and see what the overall census is for Gambit's cameo vs 1st appearance. To me X-men Annual #14 is the most obvious to be titled as 1st Gambit first appearance. Uncanny X-men #266 should be retitled as first cover appearance.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Ooooh I should totally do that

@UserNameClassifed 3 года назад

I think it's because chronologically, #266 came before X-Men Annual #14 judging by how it's written. Which is why even the CGC considers #266 his first full appearance and the former a cameo. It's all a mess either way, but at this point, I don't think it's going to change.

@m8tahuman 3 года назад

First reveal ought to be more of a thing. Anyhow, word up!

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Thanks my man!

@travisscharf5322 3 года назад

As a collector I just get both. So I don't miss out.

@jonbutt8664 3 года назад

Mint-Hunter, you have some of the most intelligent content out there for all things comics! Keep up the good work! And from your last video, I'm glad I'm not the only clown out there....

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Wow, thanks! that's quite the compliment! thanks my man - and hahaha yes it happens to all of us

@alexarevalo5695 3 года назад

Guess I'll have to buy all appearances whether it's considered a "cameo" or "first appearance" just to cover my bases lol.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

That's one way to do it! Hahaha

@AlexSzostak13 3 года назад

From Go Collect.... Amazing Spider-Man #298 in a 9.8: $700 Amazing Spider-Man #299 in a 9.8: $975 Amazing Spider-Man #300 in a 9.8: $10,000 “First Full Appearance” is what drives the market. Great video. Keep on Hunting!!!

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

First FULL app is usually the favorite anyway but it's still interesting to note that the 1st app was NOT the big famous issue! lol

@comicpadre8603 3 года назад

I like to think that 180,181, and 182 are all apart of the same appearance since it is the same story. A wolverine fan would want all three.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Now this is very true - any Wolvy fan would want em all

@seandavidson7440 3 года назад

I was going through my 90s comics the other day and found 7 asm 361s(3 newstand) and they were in perfect shape.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Well Damn!!!

@PaleRiderK 3 года назад

I have a copy of X-Men Annual 14 and get told all the time it's not Gambit's first appearance. I've always considered it one over 266, due to the very reasons you brought up.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Don't let em tell ya otherwise!

@markleneker9923 3 года назад

I'd like to jettison the cameo/first appearance vs full appearance insanity. IMO it should be 1) Teaser -- and Hulk 180, and ASM 25 are PERFECT examples of that, and 2) Full Appearance. A teaser allows some flexibility. But the market will do what the market will do.

@oatmealgenocide7270 2 года назад

If it's still open I would cherish that shadow of the bat run forever. I'm building a collection for my sons and would love to finish it off and pass it down

@gusgoddin6316 Год назад

Great video!

@sharifbaker 3 года назад

if i see a name and face you appeared that’s basically it. if i hear a name called out that’s just a camek

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Interesting take!

@marioch4259 3 года назад

For Me if you can see the character in full, has dialogue its a first appearance, even more if he shows his abilities or powers

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Powers should be an extra category I agree

@DoughnutJunkie 2 года назад

👍🏽That was a lot of good information.

@MintHunterComics 2 года назад

Glad it was helpful!

@AlexMartinez-es6qz 3 года назад

That's why I try to get them all, Cameo, First Appearance, First Full Appearance, First Cover Appearance. It gets expensive.

@larrylar1189 3 года назад

FINALLY! Someone calls it right. Some of these are debatable but X-men 266 is definitely not a 1st appearance at all, its just a 1st cover.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Agreed, there's so leeway with some of these but not with Gambit at all lol

@andrewcai5042 3 года назад

Yay discussing comic book language/terminology!

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Woot woot!

@mtgtribalnation4845 3 года назад

I like both. Because it puts a spotlight on 2 or 3 books not just one. And it makes good conversation, witch is a healthy thing.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Amen to this

@dougcowley6592 3 года назад

Was hoping you'd discuss Trigon's 1st appearance. That's a tough one..

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

New teen titans 2, he has dialogue with Raven

@naureennaqvi8442 3 года назад

I love shadow of the bat I have 22 copies of issue 19 first appearance of tally man . My aunt was trying to get me more then one book but she just bought a lot of the same copies I don’t mind tho it’s a good book

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Tally man! what an underrated DC character for sure

@mcewb726 3 года назад

I think if the character just appears in the background of a frame with no name or any mention then its not a first appearances but if they are part of the story then it counts. but i just go by key collector or the general consensus tbh. Great vid man! hope you smash that 8k subs soon!

@theomegaman3489 3 года назад

The Golden Rule... One who holds the gold makes the rules.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Hahahah I appreciate your take!

@Darkglobe1977 3 года назад

As an OCD Completest I have to buy both first cameo and first appearance on characters I like just to cover all bases.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Hahahaha #same

@lburwell99 3 года назад

Is it clearly defined how CGC defones these things, since they put these statements on the top of the cases? Great video, thanks!

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Not necessarily - CGC notes are sometimes blank for notable books. use Key Collector before using CGC notes

@MATTisRUTHLESS 3 года назад

Batman Beyond (Batman/Superman 22) vs Superman/Batman Annual 4 Should be its own video

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Seriously lol

@mikebutler3239 3 года назад

I would have to agree with you. All set a side you have to love it or leave it. Great video.

@OrphanCrippler1 3 года назад

The only correct thing to do is buy all of them. Every comic of every run of every hero ever

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Hahahahahaha

@imdronedout 3 года назад

I think it's safe to say that the panel of importance would be the upper right cgc panel shortly after the upper left panel of the slab 😅

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Often times CGC notes are wrong! I've had to correct them many times

@imdronedout 3 года назад

@@MintHunterComics wow that's insane so you eventually have to send it back to get reslabbed to get to note updated ...I did not know that ! Publishing keeps some tricks up their sleeve to be very cautious about then .

@ironspiderman100 3 года назад

I feel a first appearance is a first appearance. No cameo, no "oh they were only in one panel etc." The first time the character is seen is their first appearance. Hulk 180, ASM 299, etc. should just be strict first appearances in my opinion

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Our definition tends to agree with you! we're a little stricter with ours but your opinion is valid!

@ironspiderman100 3 года назад

@@MintHunterComics Nothing wrong with be strict on comic books!

@jerrydwallace7040 3 года назад

I enjoyed your cameo in this video. Newer subscriber. Thanks for the videos. Curious on your thoughts on that Miles Morales previews sale for like $9000

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

I think its a bit silly! But I see the perspective on it

@HenryGomezYoga 3 года назад

Another great video.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

I appreciate that - glad you enjoyed!

@CallenLowe 3 года назад

For me, the debate of cameo vs first full doesnt really matter, I will just do my best to get both (or more) of the books. I can see both sides of the coin really, I just want all the books and let the market dictate which is the most valuable lol, excellent video and topic as always!!

@jabezcreed 3 года назад

The Venom hand is a perfect example of what I would call a cameo.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Exactly

@frogartti Год назад

If you’re slabbing comics, the most important thing should be 1st cover appearances.

@noey99 3 года назад

For me, if there is a name, dialogue and the character is fully shown in the comic then its a first appearance.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

I appreciate your take!

@Misosgameroom 3 года назад

I feel like first appearance should include an identifiable Face shot as well.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Face or partial face shot is pretty important for me

@marymarvel 3 года назад

this is so much fun

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Thanks man, glad you enjoyed!

@superpowers84 3 года назад

I've always considered ASM 299 1st appearance of Venom too. With Gambit I understand the annual 14, but when you see that 266 story was 1st it makes more sense too, like you mentioned.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Indeed, I truly do wish it came.out first but alas here we are!

@rashadarizmendi871 3 года назад

The problem is not if it is cameo or first appearance, the problem is that people who already invested a lot of money in their first appearances will never accept that the number before the one they say cameo will never become first appearance. The most tangible sample is that of X-men 266, when it became known that X-MEN annual 4 is really the first Gambit release, immediately many influencers in the comics environment sent it to cameo, obviously they were not going to accept that this number that It is cheaper to gain ground to 266, of course, they were not going to lose all their investment. X-men annual is the clear example that it is the first appraisal, whoever likes it. Thats the reality. And I'm not going to get into the Hulk 180-181 or AMS 299 - 300 is wasting time. Greetings and thanks for exposing the reality on this issue. Greetings.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Exactly - how do you tell someone that's known for years a book is a first appearance only to tell them it's not actually the first appearance?! it's tough. and hard to swallow! but nonetheless true

@johnmuse6626 2 года назад

The most frustrating thing to me is that it's never been consistent. I blame Overstreet to be honest. They were the first ones I saw doing that years ago. They were the ones who called Jimmy Olsen the 1st Darkseid but called Hulk 180 a cameo. It's silly, the first time a character appears is the first appearance. You'd never do that in the movies for example. Nick Fury joined the MCU in Iron Man 1, period.

@lazcore7603 3 года назад

Where do you sell your comics? As the ones like the batman slabs you got in the last video?

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

I often don't haha but when I do it's through IG

@RobinComics 3 года назад

Great video; killer Croc's and Jason's first appearance/cameo is interesting alright. Lots of confusion around this one. Still love my Batman 357 though :)

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Still a great book!

@MPScrimshaw 3 года назад

The weirdest cameo that I am aware of is Hawkeye versus Deadpool 0, which is the first cameo appearance of Jane Foster Thor and Spider-Gwen, which is so random.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

AWWWW! I should have added that one in here! Doi.... I think that's a cameo for sure: no dialogue, no name drop, just one (it was just one right?) panel of them in halloween costumes

@MPScrimshaw 3 года назад

@@MintHunterComics it's actually three or four panels but they're all the same because they're in the background and there is no dialogue

@muffintop_08 3 года назад

Can you do a green lantern video? btw love the channel!

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

I'd HAPPILY do that! love GL

@MrComics89 3 года назад

Like, comment, and as always subbed lol

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

I appreciate it! xoxoxoxo

@juancarlosbarsallo2976 3 года назад

Great video.👌

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Thanks for the visit!!!

@nateflores6231 3 года назад

It randomly made me in subscribe to you but I subscribed to you again

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Woot woot welcome back hahahahaha

@goldschool9050 3 года назад

First appearance is first appearance. Period!

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

I respect your take!

@JernosComicsPopCulture 3 года назад

UNDERSTANDING THE DEFINITION OF CAMEO: There are two separate textbook definitions of cameo. One relates to plays or written works that use live actors (plays, film, etc). This is the one that folks refer to when the character making the cameo needs to be an "already established character." The second definition for cameo pertains to literature. For literature, the "already established" factor is not needed. Hence, using the term cameo in a comic book can absolutely - according to definition - pertain to a character that we have never seen before.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

I appreciate your take my man! I commented on your other comment!

@derekd4221 2 года назад

I agree, 180 is a first appearance... in cameo. The word cameo is used for good reason and I like how you were the only person who took the time to explain it's proper use. In the video, creating comic book rules and guidelines for the defintion of a cameo is a flawed approach. Basically, one person decided what questions to ask. Why not ask how many pages does thge person appear instead of how many panels? How many panels is the character visible on nstead of speech bubbles? People want to recreate their own definition of what a cameo (or even get rid of it) to favor the outcome they want.

@devonscalf3786 3 года назад

They there they appear

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Hahahah you're not wrong!

@dylailadad3443 3 года назад

Love your show

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Thanks Scott!

@bigjax731 2 года назад

Good stuff

@luxraylogan 3 года назад

For me if they are shown in full(like wolverine in 180) it's a first appearance. The only time I consider it a cameo is if it's like a shadow or a piece of an arm or something like that(unless it's throughout the book like killer crock). I think the 181/300 FA crowd are just salty that they paid a lot for not a first appearance.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Hahaha thats what I think as well, just a bit of salty peeps unable to let it go!

@davidweir9136 3 года назад

Great video

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Thanks for the visit!

@JamesSackett 3 года назад

The Todd father said the 1st appearance is 298. But that is a Cameo

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Toddy knows best!

@AdityaAnand-sz7ir 3 года назад

i believe both are worth collecting

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

Indeed

@josephsokolowski271 3 года назад

Well done video with some great examples my friend. I will throw one more monkey wrench out there for one big book. If you have ever read Marvel’s Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe #12 from December of 1983 then you should know that Marvel Comics officially listed Wolverine 1st appearance as Incredible Hulk #180. That’s right from the horse’s mouth and just starts a whole new conversation lol.

@MintHunterComics 3 года назад

This is true! it was ONCE considered the 1st appearance and got lost a bit there. But now everything is coming full circle and folks are remembering it saying it IS once again the first app!