In this episode Trent debates college students at the University of New Mexico and a caller to Catholic Answers Live on the issue of abortion. Support this channel: / counseloftrent
Would you call me a black belt because I can beat the crapola out of a 2 year old? I heavily dislike apologetics focused on campuses and poor areas because it seems heavily comparable to the above example. You take someone who has done any amount of research/studying in a topic and put them against people who haven't, of course they're gonna look good, but that doesn't mean they are. How would Christians feel if random atheists were sitting just outside their Churches to have a 'chat' with likely theologically/philosophically lacking Christians?
Pro-Life Argument: A Fetus is Alive, because it grows and takes in nutrients A fetus is human, because it has two human parents. Nothing with two human parents has ever not been human. A fetus also has human DNA. A fetus is a whole organism, not a part of an organism, like a leg, or or a sp-rm, or an egg cell. Because if you give it: A. Time B. Nutrition C. Proper environment It will grow into a fully fledged adult human, which won’t happen with just a sp-rm or a leg or something. Therefore, a fetus is a living, human organism. Life begins scientifically at conception. A fetus is an organism connected to another organism with its own body. But is a fetus a person? Pro-choice advocates normally say a fetus isn’t a person, and just a clump of cells, because it hasn’t yet had the human experience yet. So what makes something a person? Well, first of all, clearly things like consciousness or sapience or even brain function don’t make something a person. This is because animals have all of these and we don’t treat them as persons. So what separates a human and an animal? Rational thought. When a human starts thinking like a human, and not like an animal. However, if you say this is what makes someone a person, then you’d also say it would be okay to k-ll an infant. This is because infants act more like animals and have not yet begun rationally thinking. Therefore, their argument for personhood is bad. K-long a fetus is therefore like k-ling an infant. And most philosophers agree. They both are the same thing, babies, or very young human beings. A better definition of a person would be: An individual member of a rational kind. That means however, that a fetus is also a person, and that it’s not okay to k-ll the fetus.
@@Eliza-rg4vw Atheists are some of the dumbest people I've ever argued with even without doing any research. Even a figurehead like Dawkins speaks for long enough and flat out admits "I pay lip service to following the evidence."
I was born and raised in a traditional Catholic family. Eight years ago, I married a Japanese woman. My first daughter was diagnosed with Down Syndrome three months after conception while she still was inside her mother's womb. The doctors recommend having an abortion as soon as possible to avoid complications to the child and future problems for us as parents. I strongly opposed to the abortion and asked my wife to let my daughter be born with the promise that I would bring my Down Syndrome baby to Mexico to be raised by my sisters and in this way, to avoid future problems to my wife. However, when my daughter Sarah was born, my wife didn't allow me to take my daughter to Mexico with my relatives. She loved Sarah, and she wanted to keep her with us in Japan. My wife is not Christian and she doesn't believe in God. Moreover, she doesn't have any religion. My family has been infinitely blessed after Sarah was born. Two years later, my son Kevin was born. Sarah is in her first grade of elementary school. My dream now is to find a godmother for Sarah to be baptized in the Our Lady of Akita temple in Japan.
What a powerful and moving testimony man, I’m holding back tears. Honestly the part that got me was the immense love and willingness of your sisters to take on the responsibility of raising of a special needs child that is not even their own. God bless you and your Catholic family 😭
@@templarroystonofvasey i can't even stomach some of the things that were said in that debate, like when Destiny said it was okay for people to have sex with living child sex dolls as long they weren't conscious 🤢
@@Carolinefdq It shocked me too what Destiny was advocating for !!!.Takes practice to compartmentalise and minimise the emotions when discussing such a subject. I was actually more interested in the pro-life outcomes and exploring those more.
My mom was on food stamps and Medicaid. Thank the Father she didn't murder me for those reasons. You stay so calm in the face of hypocrisy, it is something to strive towards.
When that woman was speaking, she said "they don't have a choice." So she's not prochoice. If someone is actually prochoice, they should be doing everything to make changes in society to eliminate those barriers of finances.
@@genevieverose1234 Exactly!!!! To the woman who made those statements: why not address THOSE issues instead? You're covering the sin of society for not caring for its citizens with the sin of a mother killing her unborn child. As if that's some sort of "mercy kill." In the blatant hypocrisy of prochoice individuals to slander people who are prolife for "playing God," they _themselves_ are playing God. The difference is that prolife individuals do not think murder is justifiable under any circumstance, LEAST OF ALL when it comes to an unborn child.
For you to be here today, just from the past 12 generations, 4098 people were involved (2^12+2). Of those 4098, surely many of them endured some very hard circumstances and lived in poverty and difficulties. But because they survived, and their children or grandchildren had a more successful life, that's the reason why you're here. If "growing up poor" was a valid argument, we all wouldn't be here Edit: as some pointed out, the value is actually twice bigger than the one I presented. God bless everyone
@@Daily_Bassist life only has value if... Stop. You've degraded yourself already by saying not all life has value The Nazis said the same. Jews burdened them. So did black people to the KKK
@@stingingnettle9726 You haven't met the whole population right? How can you make an impression of a whole country just from the subset of people that you have met from a country? The same can be said of any preconceived notion we may have about a group of people that causes us to view them negatively.
@@stingingnettle9726 I'm sorry I don't understand your analogy that you're trying to make. And it doesn't really answer anything I've told you just now.
Wow, that caller lost all logic when he got pushed into a corner. He tried to reference what Jesus would do, and then immediately admitted that abortion is killing. Pretty sure Jesus never said “Everyone should be able to do anything they want.” I recall Jesus saying do not harm children.
@@johnnotrealname8168 Too bad Jesus ain’t real, he sounds like an all right guy…. He would probably forgive women, not punish em…. Just like the Democratic Party!….
@@hexl702too5 Really odd statement to make. Most Historians agree that He did exist and in any case He would if they stop their ways and repent. That does not mean he wants babies dead though.
2:06 wants to talk about being smug? Thanks God we have people like Trent, there is no way I would be able to remain cool in the face is such a virtue signaling DB.
@@cordyceps182That's ultimately what people like that want. It's not about even the woman (certainly not the baby). Its about being admired for their self righteous postuations
It's an emotional issue for them, since they have some inkling that the popular position they've adopted because it's popular seems false, and it starts to creep up when they are asked reasonable questions about that position. So the most common reaction is aggressive projection. Nothing makes people more aggressive and emotional than this particular issue. Many are just incapable of having a real dialogue about it, because they are led by the base impulse to defend their fragile psyche by any means necessary. The woman who went after looked like she was about to cry when Trent asked her to explain why infanticide is wrong. She knows the answer, which is why her first line of attack was to effectively admit that abortion is wrong, by saying nobody _loves_ killing their unborn child, but they do it because they have no other option. You wouldn't need to make excuses for the people who do the deed if it wasn't immoral. Abortion wouldn't be such a tragic, unfortunate necessity for the women if it wasn't essentially infanticide. So she already knows abortion is infanticide, she just can't answer the question because once you knock that first mental block down, the other dominoes start falling, and pretty soon it would be tantamount to admitting guilt for killing her own child, or at the very least accepting that they've adopted a monstrously evil position to fit in with other people. And it certainly doesn't feel good to be pushed into a logical corner like this. So she tries frantically to project the fragility and insecurity of her own mental state onto Trent.
Yes I love the way he doesn't even need to state anything, only ask questions that leads her into her *own* conclusion... Or she can refuse to go there and just call him names
Your ability to remain calm, collected, and patient, is a tremendous blessing. Never mind your ability to communicate truth, simply and logically. Thanks be to God for the gifts he has bestowed on you!
A cell is not a person. This is a modern scientific reality that's incompatible with 2000 year old theology. Science has made our world the most advanced AND humane it's ever been, but the brakes of theology are always there. (And there's always a real threat of going in reverse to the dark ages)
@raesully2615 What is wrong with you? How can you say a woman who bears the image of God is undesirable? Disgusting. A lot of these single mothers were abused/left by fathers. Have some compassion.
@@Themightystar5000 Well since our moral system that we have created makes murder and cannibalism wrong consider yourself corrected on your lack of education and understanding Do yourself a favor to not get involved in the conversation you are already showing you are clearly unqualified for
@@keithziegler8881 In a materialistic world there is no good or evil. There is no morality. I don't know which cannibalism and murder are wrong you are talking about.
@@keithziegler8881 What is the difference between abortion and Nazism? The answer is easy, there is no difference. both dehumanize the person to make it easier to kill him
Logic is ruthless, no? Love it. I wish I could rebut as well as Sir Trent. Trump didn't "put three justices on the Court". He NOMINATED three justices. Congress voted and confirmed his nominations. BIG difference. Orémus Y'all.
@@johnnotrealname8168 Lmao After all the yowling rightweenies did about “states rights”…… You object to states protecting abortion?….. Forced-birthers are more mixed up than a bowl of batter!….
@@johnnotrealname8168 lol silly!…. I’ve heard of this Trent guy for about 16 years….. In those 16 years there were some 20,000,000 abortions…. He’s not as think as you good he is…..
14:07 He first tries to argue that "Jesus said do not judge." and then he elevates a human (be it the mother or the person pressuring the woman to have an aborti0n) as supreme judge over the life of a child for whatever reason. Am I misrepresenting the argument? Honest question here, as this seems to be a contradictory statement made by the caller, but I am not the best at arguing and using philosophically sound arguments.
Using ‘you’re judging’ is a standard smug self righteous punch people throw when caught by some truth. Judge not, lest ye be judged…. I think I’m judged all the time, so, I’m then entitled to judge, according to Gods Laws! And everyone judges. It’s how we decide who to be friends with or about every choice involving people, we make every day. Who to hire, where to shop, where to live….
@@j2muw667 I must admit that, as a very emotional person (something I am trying to address), such accusations can work on me and I have used them at times. Like, in those clips at the campus, I would haven't been able to handle it as good as Mr Horn did. I am so glad he stands for the ones who have no voice and cannot defend themselves.
@@exiledfrommyself Found you again! I would maybe have interpreted this as sarcasm if I didn't see your other comment. So you are saying you, right now, can be killed if you were conceived in a cerrent way. Come on. Next time, don't make arguments that can easily be reductio ad absurdumed into oblivion.
Most of the major principle ethics for every Leftist I've encountered is based on these two axiomatic presuppositions: "the ends always justify the means" & "everything in life is a zero-sum game."
Nah, that's not a "left" thing. It's literally spelled out in The Prince and that is an ultra right treatise. This issue is not left/ right. Just right/wrong
@@mickyfrazer786 left/right political ideology began with the French revolution. Those who sided with the monarchy stood on the right of the parliament and those who rejected the monarchy stood on the left of the parliament, effectively choosing what would become the Reign of Terror. The Prince predates these events by almost three centuries, but if one were to attempt to fit the political philosophy of Machiavelli into a left/right framework, his thoughts and tactics would lean considerably more left than right. Then as now, terror is seen as an acceptable or even necessary attribute of the left. Similar actions taken by an ostensibly right-leaning political figure would much more likely not be tolerated or affirmed.
I would call this a BS blanket statement you are ascribing to so many beyond your current encounter. I am pro-choice but I do not think either of your statements are absolute or even correct. They can be in certain situations. But not all.
@ShiniGuraiJoker well they literally started out by saying "most". They were simply talking about their personal observations and describing their conclusions. I also agree with them btw. Leftists definitely prescribe to this line of thinking (maybe not every single one of course, but in my observation of literally hundreds of thousands of interactions)
Trent really is an intellectual powerhouse, Trent does such a tremendous job with his arguments and talking calmly and rationally with people. He deserves a bigger platform
It is insane how calm that compilation of college clips is. Even when the woman approached and gave an emotional response, it never really flared up beyond insults, and the crowd remained calm (and neutral, did not expect applause for your points as well). How things have changed in 20 years...We've really gone in a terrible and wrong direction for campus discourse.
@@riotpolizei3522 The forced-birthers present clip after clip of “Look at these hysterical crazed blue-haired screaming harpies while we stand as stoic as Biblical figures”…. They know people are easily manipulated by images of women, so this is pounded and hammered home constantly…. They’ll never mention the many times pro-choicers successfully defended abortion rights in courts… You can’t scream or throw fits there…. You have to present your case calmly and logically, which pro-choicers have always done…..
@@hexl702too5 As in, you don't think campus discourse is calmer and more even-handed like shown in the video, or you don't think its less level-headed and more aggressive, like I imply it is?
Thank you Trent for fighting for the unborn, you are very patient and Brave…most of those you debate probably have had their own abortions or encouraged others and the guilt can be overwhelming…keep fighting the good fight.🙏🙏🙏🌟
If a male is just a donor… then a female is just the deliverer! A baby is Not her body! It’s someone else’s! And she should never have the right to murder it! The Baby has the right to Live! If she won’t speak out for it…I will! It has a Heart ❤️ Beat for a Reason! (You can hear the heartbeat 💓 before 5 weeks!) Tell her to put her Big girl pants on and take responsibility for her actions! If she was raped it’s not the babies fault and she still has a responsibility to deliver it ! She’s a deliverer! No one has the right to murder EVER period! Wanna argue with murder? 🐝 Buzz Off! I’m proud of God’s Law! Thou Shalt Not Kill! 💓❤️💓❤️💓
In 1915, my grandmother was having trouble with her pregnancy, the local doctors encouraged her to abort the baby, for her own survival, but she refused to kill her soon to be born child. She was in an area where illegal, but "safe" abortions were performed. She told the doctors that "God could not forgive her for killing her baby, and she could not forgive herself." She felt the love she had for her child in her womb. She went on to give birth her third child in January of 1916. The baby was premature, but survived. My grandmother sadly died one month after giving birth. That child grew up to marry and had two children of which I am the oldest. I am married and my wife and I have two sons. Both are married and one has a son. So, three generations later, my family is thriving thanks to the courage and strong faith that my grandmother had. My grandmother made a decision based on her bonding with her child, faith and the risks at the time, to keep her baby to term and risk her life in the process. My family is forever grateful to her for that. Now, if a woman chooses to terminate her pregnancy, and kill her baby, that's her legal option, but my faith tells me to thank God every day that I can live this life thanks to the faith and love of my grandmother. If a woman decides to terminate their pregnancy for no good reason, she will have to answer to God for eternity.
@@hexl702too5 Not really you would actually push for an abortion or that the child should be killed. In any case with medical improvements that case will rarely if ever happen Thankfully.
Bah….. I commented on this guy’s video about 17 years ago….. In those 17 years, there were about 20,000,000 abortions….. He’s not as think as you good he is….
Dang Trent, you were good at this even back in the day! You're always so calm, and thoughtful. I wish I was so. Thank you for your hard work and dedication to our Lord!
It always makes me nervous when rightwingers think the “good old days” were decades and decades ago… A time of segregation, systemic racism, eugenics policies, subjugation of women and oppression of racial, religious and sexual minorities…. I’ll take today’s America with all her faults over those days anytime…..
Murder is the killing of another human being under certain conditions covered by the law. If abortion is legal then by definition it's not murder. And we view the topic of abortion differently because we don't share the same values.
@@Ajas0810 No. I'm just telling you what murder means. It has never been the case that a person being killed equals murder. In certain circumstances we allow for the killing of another human being.
@@exiledfrommyself you’re explaining the legal definition decided by secular society. Murder is the intentional and unjust killing of an innocent human being which is what abortion is.
@@Ajas0810 If that's how you define murder then It follows that you would consider abortion murder. I look at murder as just a legal term and I don't consider abortion murder. It's just the termination of an unwanted pregnancy and I see nothing wrong with it.
I find these videos so difficult to watch because it really drives home how little people have thought through this issue and yet still take such a strong stance in support of abortion. I applaud Trent for meeting with these kids, who, i hope, eventually mature beyond their current "understanding " of the issue.
Abolisionist rising is making a lot of great points online and I think more pro lifers should adopt that position. Would love to see a discussion with you and them, Trent! God bless and thanks for all you do
It's not their choice. They made a choice when they decided to engage in fornication. God does not protect you from the consequences of your own actions.
@@ttthttpd In a free country you can fornicate for fun and if there's an unwanted pregnancy that follows then abortion is an option. The disagreement between both sides is how we fundamentally view abortion. You feel abortion is something that's wrong. I don't. It's just a medical procedure a woman has if she doesn't want to remain pregnant. I think you people, religious people have the wrong idea that we all share the same values and we don't. We're not robots.
@@exiledfrommyself It's not "thinking" it's wrong. Murder is wrong. And in this case it's done for nothing more than desire to escape consequences of your actions.
@@Gyvulys Murder is the killing of another human being under certain conditions covered by the law. Abortion is not murder any more than self-defense is. Abortion is a medical procedure to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. You people keep assuming we share the same values and we don't.
People don't understand that most likely than not the man doesn't even leave, the man wants the abortion because he doesn't want any responsability at all. This is just about the choice of not wanting responsabilities while getting all the rewards aka having sex without thinking about the natural consecuences of the act
Trent, you need to revive this. Have a weekly/monthly segment of “street apologetics” or some such thing. It could be on different topics every month or so. You’re very good at this. It’s obviously a step down from your high level debates, but this will definitely get you more subs. :)
God bless you Trent for being so calm and patient. had I be in your place I would have either freaked out due to nervousness or worse, angered to the point of becoming snarky and insulting
Thank you Trent 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 this is a big help, no just for us but for the ones who are in the other team, supporting a big massive killing. One of the callers said: “one is going to lose” I said yeah is always and most of the time is the innocent baby. You can be active sexually Al what you want, well at least protect your self, or assume your responsibility.
I think Trent can be so patient with people is because he is so knowledgeable & confident on the subject. Plus he’s “practiced” for so long, he can respond appropriately. I would get so flustered. I have my convictions & personal experience but not the debate knowledge. Trent is the BEST!
“”” he’s practiced for so long”” You’d get good at it too if you had to defend a failing argument for years and years and years and years and years and years and years….. It’s the same reason the forced-birthers had to hold the same march in January every year for about 45 years….. Because they couldn’t defeat the pro-choice argument….. Coerced pregnancy is a lousy policy in a free country…..
@@hexl702too5 They could because a lot of the pro-choice arguments were bunk. In any case it is not killing babies, that is a very good policy in any country.
@@johnnotrealname8168 Forced-birthers always claim to defeat the abortion argument…. they just couldn’t defeat abortion itself…. There were 64 million in 51 years…. With a record like that, you guys shouldn’t claim to be master debaters….
The solution to every human evil is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The heart has to change for human actions to change. We have seen at the state level how Americans will vote. Christians need to evangelize and pray and be the hands and feet of Christ. Nothing has changed. That is the solution. We're called to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, visit the prisoner and protect the helpless. If we do what the Lord commands us we will see our communities change for the better and bring glory to God.
Stand on your own. How degrading you believe such nonsense as religion. I am more moral than "god". Most people are. "god" is an immoral thug, unworthy of worship, even if it did exist.
The heart does not have to change because the heart does not feel a motion Also given the fact that the there was no Jesus in the Gospels are inherently flawed as is the Bible human morality is better than the Bible and therefore should not backtrack
@@keithziegler8881 You know that abortion is supported by evolution, like Nazism, and the extermination of inferior races. right . Because they are not human. Dehumanizing a person so that it is easy to kill him. This is what happens. Abortion is no different from Nazism.
@@Themightystar5000 Yes human morality that that you know where the ones he created the concept of right and wrong for ourselves The only morality that exists is human morality
Exactly! I always wonder why they don’t bring up the facts about how much of its due to rape. I’m sure the number is so small that it would make their heads spin.
Asking a pro-choice person if they'd support banning abortion for everything other than the examples they always give (rape, incest, mother's life in danger) is a great question. I've always wondered what their answers would be.
@@3tmslmn interesting you didn’t even answer the question posed here. Funny how you pro-aborts didn’t feel the same way about the jab that’s unalived millions because of peoples irrational fear of the sniffles. Anti-choice leftists only want people to make decisions about unaliving their babies to keep partying.
@@T-Dog1More seriously do you really think it is a good point to make to say to a non-believer he should trust what he doesn't believe in? Also if the god talking to you thing happened ever since, you really ought to publish a sequel of the bible.
2:23 so, serious question, have we all ruined our parents lives? 🤣 The fact we are here, we've all ruined someones life? Thats silly. my BFF got pregnant in HS, now has 2 children and 2 grandchildren, she is very happy. then there is me. no kids. no options…very sad. just a bunch of chickens, cats and dogs.
@@SenorCinemaagain these type of talking points sound like justification to be a deadbeat parent . Just like the caller , he sounded like he absolutely hates men that don’t take responsibility but yet he’s arguing for the right for women to not have to be responsible.
I love Trent for being so calm in debate. Although it’s fun to see his progression from when he first started. I was a little smug when I first debated this too, and now I try to take a more courteous Trent approach.
I hate when they use the argument of rape when it only accounts for .05% of abortions. And the interviewer doesn't call them out on it. Most abortions are done because of inconvenience.
Appeal to emotion, appeal to stone, ad hominem... I really wish the rational discourse surrounding it would have a higher standard and not be overrun by these rhetorical devices. One can argue for pro-choice and pro-life in a respectable, rational, and sensible manner.
Regardless of what your belief is, a fetus is alive. It's a full human, and killing an unborn child is the same as killing a child. It's a murder. I'm surprise that there are people out there who justifies murder, to a child no less, simply because of their own selfishness.
As a medical doctor and scientist (MD, PhD) I wish the abortion issue centered more around the current scientific consensus. As we currently define life in the scientific community, an embryo is not alive, nor is a fetus until 24 weeks ,the point where it could survive outside of the mother's womb. A fetus is considered alive not from the time there is a heart beat but rather when the last organ system to develop (the lungs) brings the fetus to a state where with medical respiratory assistance, it can live as a self-sustaining organism because the lungs are the last organ system to develop. The surfactant necessary to keep the alveoli open begins at 24-28 weeks and usually finishes at week 34 . Therefore, i think the best argument is made that the court cannot have jurisdiction over a group of proliferating cells nor can it grant personhood to something that is not alive.According to the current consensus the fetus and the mother are one organism, and they are not considered as two separate organisms until the fetus can self-sustain its biological systems.
You can always submit to God and change yourself. No church will turn you away, just like Jesus didn't turn away anyone, who fell at his feet in repentance.
Depending on the circumstance and prior conditions, you could have your current marriage con-validated with the Church when you become Catholic. It really depends on the situation so can’t provide you a clear yes or no. If you are interested in becoming Catholic, I strongly encourage you to contact a local parish and see if they can schedule a time for you to go out and discuss your questions.
Your god apparently violates that whenever he sees fit ... not only that, he commands it if his followers too. It's called holding an incoherent position.
You can tell Trent is doing the will of God by trying to reach these people. It's the only explanation I can think of as to how he remains so calm in the face of such prideful arrogance. The amount of patience and grace he speaks to these people with is on a supernatural level.
While many of these young people may have been hostile this was so important in planting a seed that may one day bear much fruit. Some of the greatest sinners became our greatest saints
No one has the right to use(live off) someone else's body(tissues, organs, blood) without their consent. Not a fetus, a 12 yr old, or a 90 yr old. It is the business of no one what a woman chooses, or the reason why.
in addition, are you saying that the mother of a 12 year old can all of a sudden decide that she no longer consents to raising a child? you’re out of your mind
@@willdaugherty2842Reading comprehension is essential. You should learn that. No one has the right to live off(use) someone else's body(blood, tissues, organs) without their consent. Whether, or not to remain pregnant is the woman's choice, no one else's. A 12 yr old does not live off anyone else's body. You lack basic logic skills.
I just hope you one day take the consistent approach and become an abolitionist, Trent. I have respect for you and for how you handle things with the word of God, reason and logic. Hopefully this leads you to hold the more consistent and moral view of abolition.
If you are only a human when you can live outside the womb, are you only human when you turn 18? Kidding aside, if the baby can live w medical assistance, then what makes you human is the quality of medicine in your area, not something innate to you? When premies couldn't live, they were not humans, but when they could live via ICU etc, they became people? Isn't it odd that our humanity is EXTRINSIC to us? Clearly viability is another bad argument for abortion - it's just crazy to suggest our humanity is a function of technology, not anything about us.
The lady at 3:40 was tacitly arguing for eugenics; abortions for the poor, inner-city women who live in housing projects. 40% of children killed in the USA through abortion are black; this has been attributed to economic inequalities by the CDC.
