@AventSir L is always working in the shadows, that's his modus operandi. He won't ever meet Johann, but send in agents to check him out. Johann being perceptive shall find that the agents are following him and get Roberto to track them down. Roberto might make a bit of headway but leave too many clues and mistakes so that even the fbi would be able to track them down back to him. Depending upon the time of story but just as an example, they find out that Robert helps run the money laundering bussiness. Now a fake shell company set up as front for neo nazi since they were the most common during that time join this front. Of course at that point since L is able to make use of unscrupulous amounts of money, he injects a large sum. Using this reason they host a dinner banquet where the highest order of criminal groups gather along woth Johann and Roberto gather to exchange pleasantries. Since people question whether or not Johann would actually come or pursue his own goals, it'd worth mentioning he was consolidating power and increasing the influence of his bussiness at that time so as long as his goals be achieved, he will do anything. Now there might be a restriction of how many people can be brought to the venue but as we know L along with fbi or the police force have been known to use disguises so many would disguise as the drivers of the other criminal families or waiters or staff at the banquet. If there are corrupt cops in Germany it makes much more sense to make use of cops from neighboring countries or L could cherry pick them like he did with Naomi. He could also set up mercenaries and private detectives and sharpshooters to dress up as cops and surround the area. Johann is always observant and knows the changes taking place in his area of vicinity but he won't be able to tell if the drivers of other criminal companies have been switched out or if notices that some of the staff have puffy or slippery face skins then he might notice. Of course this would be very hard to achieve since the staff would be constantly being rotated on a basis to aerate the face. Fifteen mins after Johann and Roberto arrive since they always arrive a bit late to these underground meetings to ensure safety, the plan will be kicked into actions. The food or wine could be drugged using odorless, colorless, texture less drugs or a sleeping gas with same properties can be used. Of course Johann would be able to tell that there is slight change in cognition the moment he inhales but many gases don't require high ppm to actually affect your nervous system. Still he tries to make the escape but finds that police(people in disguise) have surrounded and barricaded the building. He runs into the underground floor to find his point of escape since he always shall have a tunnel or hiding place, but the staff block his way. A shooting may occur but the criminal side won't be as prepared but the commotion might give Johann a time frame to escape. But where? Trapped like an ant under a glass, he is completely surrounded. He would be detained eventually inside the banquet hall or the premises even if he tries to disguise himself but can't because a) disguises are only with the police and they shall be acting in groups of 3 not separated by a large area since they had already blocked him to a certain area of a building b) no other disguises exist. c) Johann doesn't necessarily know that the disguises exist. He might try to kill a human and try to wear his skin as a disguise but it is important to know that such disguises don't work for long and he needs to be extremely skilled along with having the proper tools and chemicals and time. Yes the problem is time. The action plan is quick and fast paced, nearly instantaneous like a predator plucking his prey. At the end Johann will be detained and L can use the truth serum to force the truth out of him instead of using torture techniques.
Surely nope.....cuz Kira is currently killing while watching the investigation is going on and can observe easily...but monster always disappears from one place and after a long investigation about his past even if they find where he will reappear and who he is going to kill he would have already done it and disappeared....And also that his motives are completely unknown so all his moves are unpredictable... Atleast I think so😊....i just love johan
The problem with catching Johan is that his motives defy all logic and reason which is what L mostly uses to solve his cases. Just when you think you’ve started to get a grasp behind Johan’s thought process, he’ll completely switch his entire line of thinking at the drop of a hat. He’s practically inhuman, the literal definition of a monster. However, L has shown that he’ll even take the supernatural into account when solving his cases, so it might not be impossible, just extremely difficult.
Johan changing his motives and actions are still things that are reasonably plausible to figure out/fall within the limits of human behavior. It's arguably borderline inhuman like you said, but the death note is literally inhuman and supernatural. It is the tool of beings of a higher dimension in a world where their existence is not something that is even known/accepted in the first place.
Tbh I disagree , I've not fully completed the anime yet but I've been able to predict everything immediately. I don't think he does anything extraordinarily intelligent
Thank you. That is exactly how the show portrays Johan. You're not supposed to understand how his mind works. It's weird that so many reviewers try to explain Johan's psychology or philosophy.
I do think Johan would win, but it would be extremely difficulty. Light got easily tricked by L so many times, that he needed a Shiminigami to kill L. That's how good L is.
@Draconex nah, don't forget that light nearly got exposed on the first couple of eps because of the fbi agent tailing him. The only reason he managed to outsmart the detectives because ryuk tells light that he was being followed on the way home. If ryuk doesn't tell light about the detectives then he would 100% got exposed early on, so yeah light was indeed careless a couples of times and need ryuk to save his ass.
@Draconex L lost cause he wasn't able to prove light guilty, he already guessed he was kira long before his death, he even accurately accused him of never telling the truth, also I feel like we're deeply underestimating his WW3 feat somehow
My first anime was deathnote but l can't beat Johan it is never about intelligence Johan just don't fear death he won't die until he want he won't be catch by anyone until he want
The evaluation in this video was particularly striking because you considered aspects like corruption and digged into their thought processes based on past actions and personalities. I wish this battle was canon because L can't be manipulated like the monster chars and Johan would have a cool opponent since L is somewhat of a monster himself. But with this level of analysis it def feeds the hcs and the idea is rly unique lol. Apart from the engaging editing, I think the points mentioned here made you outdo yourself again!! Great video :)
WLPHA, thank you I was scared maybe this was too fan theory or something but turns out I got it right atleast. Also all I would like to mention that worked for this video was it actually being realistic to L's character to solve these murders because of personal interest (cause murders that are basically look like they never happened & also his detective rule with 1m dollars / 10 victims or more.
@@AventSir this high talks isn't just Theories but also the hardwork till now all the points i have seen isn't just something put it was valuable informations from manga's and novel's seeing the points of tenma and L and also Johan who may everyone know about it was not a imaginary points but it was strategic narrations of only points in a story that's how crazy narratives skills of this guy is not only this but booding the points and let even other people to atleast get a image is something that even make you S tear if We go psychology narrative , and Observation skill with the representation of points Damm , that's crazy if you go for RU-vid Analytics this sharp mind of yours will be preety helpful As having that's crazy talent but not using that's on the full potential is making yourself and your time fool Btw It would be the battle of 2 monsters and at the end the monster who is much stronger would lead out of the end Johan and L 's are two different form of monster but that may lead to exposes some secrets hidden undeniably
I think Johan would win. Not because he's smarter than L or anything like that, but because of his modus operandi, his way of acting and how he anticipates any act in the show (if Roberto was competent, he would have eliminated the drunk and Johan would have fulfilled his plan perfectly). Either way, it would be extremely difficult for either of them.
Yeah, but I really want to point out something - L can use stand ins etc it could be possible he can get one over on Johan. (due to L being unknown.) but like I said I'm pre sure Johan could use the corrupt police to his advantage and escape. Therefore if he escapes he realises someone with high intellect is in the shadows and orchestrating schemes. Either way fun battle!
@@AventSir I agree. Taking advantage of the theme, a next video could be "Could Kira k1ll Johan?", analyzing at some scenarios or possibilities, such as when Light takes on the role of L or if the story of Monster and DN took place in the same country etc. But this is just a suggestion. (Ignore any possible English mistakes, it's not my native language)
@@jaorosselli1870 Short answer : No His mother was the only one who knew his real name and she didn't know anything about Johan, so she would have no idea of what he became. Also if Johan knew there is a mysterious serial killer who can kill someone by knowing their name and kills criminals, he would be able to choose to kill his mother if he wanted to and claim a complete protection against Light. A better question is if Johan wanted to would he be able to kill Kira?
I like to think Johan would come out on top. Light had an ego and god complex that L could exploit to lure him out with. Johan does not. For example, if it was Johan who found the death note, chances are he never would've responded to L's broadcast at the beginning of the show because he had literally no reason nor desire to give himself away. Heck Johan goes out of his way to ensure people can't even prove he exists, which goes against everything Light did who was determined to be acknowledged and revered as a god.
Johan just goes to Germany and that’s that, not utilizing the Death Note 24/7 like Light did. He would be conservative with its uses, most likely only erasing people out of convenience. He would perhaps push the limits of the Death Note in ways only a “Monster” could think of, unlocking its true potential. Johan’s existence itself would be considered esoteric knowledge. I can imagine 5D chess being done behind the scenes with both L and Johan’s movements, it would be one heck of a cross-over.
Light also had an extremely powerful, untraceable magic murder book. Johan doesn’t have that in this scenario, I personally think L takes it here. However, if Johan had the death note I don’t think there is a detective in existence who could catch him
I do think Johan would ultimately edge L out, but it'd be a really cool showdown. Weirdly I think they'd both kinda respect eachother in a twisted sort of way as they play their games. One thing I've also always wondered is if Johan has ever had any kind of combat training. He seems to at least have a basic working knowledge of firearms.
I've always considered Lunge as a more realistic L of sorts, both of them being super recognized detectives with weird habits, inhability to admit being wrong and the like. However, while L's deductions are pretty much always correct because of the plot, Lunge is more human and actually commits mistakes, even if he redeems himself after.
L's deductions are correct almost every time not because of the plot tho. There's actually logical reasons as to why he was able to profile Light perfectly
Wonderful analysis. We 100% need to see a 'Could Sherlock Holmes catch Johan Liebert'. 2 insanely, diversely proficient sociopaths playing a mental game of cat and mouse as detective and killer would be something else
@@thunderstorm99 Yeah no, the classic Novel version of Sherlock used legit methods(that are nowadays standard) mixed with a bit of supernatural super genius(even less so than L at his best), that is not remotely enough to come even close to Johan without massive outside-help.
@@gunchar06 have you read any of Sherlock Holmes novels? Sherlock is the greatest detective in fiction, considered superior to batman, moriarty, anime detectives etc. Ain't no way that he won't be able to solve Johan Liebert's case
@@thunderstorm99 Bruh..., every comic version of Batman with a big emphasize on detective work makes Sherlock look like an absolute amateur, we are talking about a character here who gets written in a way that allows him to deal with a whole group of nigh godly(or in WW's case actually divine) beings of which multiple ones are literally billions of times more powerful, faster, etc... than himself(and yes his other abilities also too often reach such nonsensical levels if they become the focus of enough stories).
A lot of people saying L would lose, but I think that's selling him a bit short tbh. Light was using a supernatural item that only he knew the rules of and those rules were so obscure that I think no human would ever be able to figure out by deduction. You have a supernatural item that leaves no evidence/loose ends and whose existence is not something any person would ever consider wielded by a nearly unparalleled genius, and yet even with all that, L for all intents and purposes figured out everything. As incredible of a genius Johan is, he still needs to interact directly with other humans to set his plans in motion, and that leaves loose ends no matter how effective his brainwashing is. There were several murderers being interviewed about their MO who knew of the existence of Johan even if not directly. I personally think if L just confirmed Johan existed (which is not hard given the amount of characters that know he does) it would only be a matter of time before he would be caught. In my view, a couple of disguises/identity changes and brainwashing is not nearly in the same realm of difficulty as deducing the existence of a supernatural notebook in a world where other such items are not known to exist all while said notebook's existence is also actively being obscured by another genius of the same caliber as L.
You’re forgetting those people only knew Johan because he allowed them to, especially Tenma, confirming Johans existence doesn’t mean you’ll catch him, he’s elite at using false identities, has insane influence in underground Germany & can disappear without a trace. Also Light was very impulsive with the Notebook while Johan shows no impulse and wouldn’t even be drawn out by L but Johan could create enough chaos on Germany to draw out L. It’d be close but there’s a higher chance L gets killed than Johan gets sentenced to prison. Johan is also better at building influence & connections than Light was tbh, I don’t think L’s influence would beat Johans in Germany, he basically monopolised the countries funds & has high social & political connections. Also L almost failed to catch BB in the LABB Murder cases without Naomi Misora, BB wasn’t as manipulative, didn’t have as much influence, wasn’t as strategic or deceptive than Johan. Another thing is L despite having insane deductions & profiling could still be indirectly manipulated by Johan, Johan could just gain info from the task force in Germany similar to how he disguised as Anna getting info from Suk.
when you say "there's a higher chance L gets killed" you also have to take into account that in death note L always was prepared to die and if he did it would conclude in the killer being caught due to cctv, informing others ahead of time and so on. @@WorldLeader12345
but L is smart enough to have multiple backups such as warnings to people such as the police saying "if I die in such and such days or hours then it was Johan" and he could have witnesses too as another option@@WorldLeader12345
I mean L managed to suspect Light immediately at the begging of the show, and also lets not forget that Light was perfect in every way to not be suspicious, and even with that L still knew that Light was Kira. I have no doubts that L would be able to catch Johan. I mean Johan never went against someone who is even close to being as intelligence as Light like L did..
Just because Johan never went up against anyone who’s on L’s level doesn’t change the fact that Johan still indirectly went up against many above average characters in the show. Johan also wouldn’t make the same mistakes that Light had during the beginning. Johan is unlike Light or BB, he’s far better Emotionally, has more knowledge and experience in crime and is far better and covering his tracks. His influence building is much better than either of theirs combined & managed to control the country underground as a teenager. Also Johan could straight up shoot L in a face to face confrontation if he has to.
Johan hasn't shown his full potential because no one was there to push him, he was way better than everyone, if L pushed him hard enough, Johan would get excited to fight him. Edit: Just finished Monster, at first I thought he's just a good pure evil villain but he's nothing really special with any other thing. After we learn Johan's conclusion as a character, he's probably one of the best out there, everything he did was for his sister Nina. The beauty of Johan's conclusion, he wasn't the real monster. I think the perfect suicide he's trying to accomplish was for his sister, he wanted to make a world where as Nina cannot feel pain (in his perspective). The siblings were attacked by everyone, everyone wanted to hurt them. Nina was the only one who loved Johan. While Nina got adopted by a loving family, Johan got corrupted and tortured by Wolf and the others, Johan was the human, he just wanted to bring happiness to his sister, the only one who actually loved him Now I truly believe he's a perfect antagionist for Monster, he has the backstory, dynamics, conclusion, and any other thing.
@@maiageia1240 There's really no evidence on them being dumb, they finished their role smoothly. I don't think It's dumb at all, for an example, Dr Tenma searching for clues. Lunge trying to prove that Tenma is Johan. Etc etc etc.
@@abyss6540 Yes, probably. Honestly i think Johan would manipulate/order someone to kill L if he finds about L somehow from corrupt cops etc. They would probably not even interact if Johan doesn’t want to.
This video is amazing, I’d say it’s a 50/50 matchup and whoever wins it would be with extreme difficulty, I’m leaning more towards Johan but I can also see a good argument with L if he approaches this cautiously, using Tenma, Anna (would be harder since she’s not mentally as stable due to trauma) & maybe Lunge to gain some clues on Johans plans and identity.
My first anime was deathnote but l can't beat Johan it is never about intelligence Johan just don't fear death he won't die until he want he won't be catch by anyone until he want
I love L but I'm leaning towards Johan. L actually needs to analyze many things first and he even makes mistakes. Johan on the other hand was seen to be perfect and Johan just knew what was coming at him in advance like a supernatural being (even though he doesn't have any supernatural powers whatsoever.) Johan's acting skills are also amazing and he's basically somewhat empty on the inside. Of course, this would both be extremely hard for both of them.
It's funny cause for L I think Johan would need a lot of effort and hard diff him while for Kira he would probably best him and made him kill himself (depend on what version of Light, end of manga light would be harder to manipulate almost impossible for his ''God of the new world'' mind)
@@gheri2957 That's true, but I still do think Johan can best Light because he's without a doubt smarter if you watched Monster. Either way, Johan and L would be an interesting matchup, both being one of the smartest anime characters out there.
@@upcomingperson4098 ofc Johan would win, even if Light and L were together I still believe Johan would win in the end, he understand how humans works better then anyone
@@gheri2957 that's a no limit fallacy, specially considering L is completely anonymous and would know nothing about him, pretty similar case with light as well, specially counting the 2 Kiras, and the fact that both L and light are intelligent psychopaths who won't fall for cheap tricks
The fact that there is still new death note analysis content after all these years just reaffirms the fact that Death Note, my favorite series ever made, could be objectively one of the best ever made. Cheers
The novel is pretty old, and these are more crossovers than analysis. It’s objectively not the best series ever made. I don’t think it would be possible to get a true unbiased view of the best series ever made
@@thunderstorm99 oh you’re right. My bad. Death note have some small consistency errors but overall it’s a top notch series. I think it might be one of the best animes ever made
Johan didn't care about mass murder and humanity. If he did, he would've accepted that request to become 2nd Hitler. He only cared for his sister, and even the way he's caring is unpredictable. He simply did all that murder because he felt lost since Tenma saved him, and also to hide his identity.
The thing that got Light so close to losing so many times is his ego and impulses to show off how better he was. Even L admitted to having the same childish flaws. Johan thrives in obscurity, he's more of a thought and an idea rather than a man. That's how monster presents him. He doesn't need attention or validation from the public or his opponents, so I think he wouldn't make the same mistakes Light did. When we hear about Johan, he's already long gone from his crime scenes. So I could see Johan winning over this fact.
The only single way of L to win is to have more Ls literally. Excepting L obviously, Johan is able to find and manipulate L's entire team hiding on different names. PS : Ryuk : " It's possible for shingami to look as humans? Light : "What?!" Ryuk : "Nah nothing" Johan accidentally walking on the street confirmed.
Too unlikely really. Johan is never at the crime scene and is so deep behind the scenes that he is nearly impossible to associate with the criminals. Not mention that interrogating anyone who was in contact with Johan, always proves to be useless as they are too far gone. Even if he ever comes down to suspicion, it's impossible to catch Johan himself. He's got too many allies surrounding him and connections in politics /corporates
Something that wasn't pointed out from the video was that L is insanely rich and influential. He basically bought a building in Japan just to operate with the Kira case and made FBI cooperate with him. L could easily corner Johan without having to ever meet him in person. People undermine L because he lost to Kira whilst not considering the fact that the moment he told Light that he suspects him of Kira, L was already testing the waters with death. L doesn't have to operate the way he did in the Kira case to catch Johan.
@@equin07x johan ran the entire underground banking system at the age of 15, johan was much more rich than L. L is a good detective probably the best in anime and media but he simply wouldn’t be able to compete with johans vast intellectual prowess
@@boogus1670 he also had criminals and murderers in his palm at that age. Its possible for Johan to just toss people at Ls associates and his team. Essentially giving up an ally of his to murder a member of Ls team. He could as easily go after Lunge as well, if he proves to be a problem. The only reason he didn't is because Lunge was making it easier for him to play with Tenma. At the end of the day he could just learn where L is by manipulating people around L, leading to Ls murder
@@boogus1670L as a 5 years old was better than an entire team of detectives, L is 25 years old, he definitely could find Johan and prove him guilty. It’s not like Johan ever uses something that would need an entire baking system's money anyways
I got a question, would Johan not know about the world's greatest detective in the first place? The fact that there's that special title means that he's quite famous, even if the public didn't know, tons of crazy cases would have been solved by one person. I'm sure Johan would account for a person of that caliber to be on his case as soon as he reached the requirements for L searching for him.
also their respective timelines are surprisingly close. the events of monsters take place around the year 1999 while the events of death note occur in 2003 ironically L should have be able have the same resources for the Johan case.
I think it would be hard to even track Johan down because of how unpredictable he is. We all saw how literally everyone in his little “circle” was confused by what his motives were because he kept changing his mind multiple times throughout the show
I feel like because of how much Johan really kind of held Tenma's hand throughout the show leading him to things that Johan would come to realize a fellow monster in their own respect (L) and incorporate L's actions into an even more dramatic and perfect suicide.
it would probably be more better for johan since his perfect suicide invovled doing a renactment of the childhood story of the 2 monsters. L could would serve perfectly as well as the second monster in his renactment.
Just finished watching Monster today. And it’s insane that someone made a video of a thought I already had. I love RU-vid. Johan is really up there as best villain ever.
@@Roblox1-sv5fwexactly, I may be biased but I feel like if I was in the position of the people he manipulated, I wouldn’t fall for it, and I think most people wouldn’t either.
L actually does fall for Light's manipulation when Sochiro had a heart attack and was at the hospital Light states he has to act to L to slowly believe he isnt kira and L after being so confident that Light is Kira (shown when by him revealing his identity to him) questions that notion asking himself "Is Light really kira" but Light's ego made him go overboard and appear to perfect thus annihilating the previous doubt
Tbf at that point L was considering Kira truly killed it's victims by writing thei names on paper, imagine the top 1 detective worldwide seriously considering supernatural ways of murdering people, my boy had it rough
I love how you considered different factors from each side of the characters and their show. I always wondered how Johan would end up competing against someone who also has a high intellect. I mean with the characters from monsters who kinda were average he had easy game so it would be nice to see how someone like L will push him more to his limits. Btw whats the soundtrack from 9:57 ?
You'd have to also think the L would have multiple detectives and investigators with him, Johan can attack those pieces under L instead of directly attacking L.
Am pretty sure L could easily figured out currput police officers or detectives next time him plus he actually wouldn’t even have that many because there no reason to show his identity like he did it death note
Those detectives would be near and mello,and nah Johan won't be able to attack near as it's very hard for him to get his location,and it would be hard to get mello location as well.If near,mello and L fight Johan then they would easily find him .
@@Poatanmafia Easily find him? Nah, and those 2 didn’t get involved until L died, if he has L killed which he can then he can deal with the other 2 after having more info on the task force.
@@r..e7045 L would definitely reveal himself if he’s dealing with Johan, he’s more influential on groups & individuals than Light, if Johan corrupts Police Officers & FBI agents he’d be drawn out, or he could anonymously manipulate people in jail to kill each other.
I honestly think Johan would realize that tenma is being manipulated by someone far smarter than him... He literally had tenma figured out at the start of the series, anything tenma does out of character or above his intellectual cabapibilities would stick out like sore thumb. Johan would probably then go into the shadows trying 2 figure out who is pulling his strings, and we all know Johan is a master at gathering information, a lot of ppl will die and he'll eventually figure L out. Either way would be a interesting encounter.
Lying monsters are a real nuisance: They are much more cunning than others. They pose as humans even though they have no understanding of the human heart; they eat even though they've never experienced hunger; they study even though they have no interest in academics; they seek friendship even though they do not know how to love. If L were to encounter such monsters, he would likely be eaten by them.
Lunge is somewhat underestimated His brilliance truly shines in the fact that he managed to get himself so much information regarding something he previously thought didn't exist before and he did it discreetly enough to not be on Johan's radar. Truly an amazing character.
johan mislead detective lunge to believe tenma was the killer. and lunge was so focused on tenma that even when the copycat killer stabbed him and announced himself as the killer he was to stubborn to believe him.
@@daddyGbaby yeah coz there's no evidence of a Johan anywhere But he still managed to break free from that illusion and find out the truth Edit: I wanted to add Lunge's suspicion on Tenma was actually very valid A Jekyll and Hyde type thing really Which occurs more than you think
@@daddyGbaby you are completely misremembering the scene. Lunge knew it was the copycat the whole time but told the journalists to say it was Johan so that Tenma would show up and he could trap him. He literally screams at the copycat that he is aware he is the murderer but he doesn't give a fuck. The copycat doesn't believe that Lunge would just let him go so he attacks him.
You can’t catch someone who doesn’t exist. That said, if anyone could-it would be L, unquestionably. To be honest L probably could catch him in this day and age, but with the limited technology and resources at that time. Keeping in mind that if Johan also had access to similar technology-it would be a even playing field. However with more technology, Johan’s existence would be confirmed-even if his identity couldn’t be. I’m just speculating but either way, we can all agree it’d be a close call.
The mystery with death note was finding out who kira was, but with monster everyone already knows that it's johan. The difficulty is in actually finding him
@@user-kl8ef2fu7qEasily with what evidence? You don’t solve a case by simply pointing at someone. You need hard evidence. Which is near impossible to gather …
Johann's words are calculated and charismatic. L would need to be a psychopath without any empathy to not get manipulated, and even then that hasn't stopped Johann from exploiting psychopaths. Johann would also never allow an in person encounter without anyone unless he wanted it to be so. Even the colleges he went to never knew he existed, only a small group of friends.
L is extremely emotionally absent and lacks empathy seeing as how many people he was willing to sacrifice just to prove a point. There is nothing Johan can manipulate when it comes to facing L. Furthermore L never even publicly meets the people involved in his cases and only made an exception because of Light being the son of Soichiro and had access to information nobody else would have and used it to cause mistrust in the task force. L would definitely eventually catch Johan. The dude was solving cases most fully grown adult detectives weren't able to solve at the age of 8 years old (Winchester bombings for example).
@@cica0428 L wouldn’t catch Johan, at best he could deduce his locations but Johan with his influence on organisations & manipulation on people in those organisations and others would probably stall L & have him killed, L is also shown to occasionally get frustrated (when Kira sends him the cards to analyse which mean nothing). Johan also could anonymously blackmail & you with L as he still has a huge ego which he can exploit.
@@WorldLeader12345 Not true...i am sure L wasn’t getting angry when light sent the messages... Maybe you should reread or rewatch that path... L isn’t someone that reacts to his emotion.... And he most likely to know johan is the killer but catching him is the real issues
L would win guaranteed the fact he even found out someone was doing the random murders is an insane feat of intelligence L also knew light was the killer but couldn’t find evidence before he died which Kira needed a shinigami to do Johan was found out by a doctor and at the end of the day he lost to him I think alot of those saying Johan would win are driven by a little bit of a bias towards him… but L was literally consistently outsmarting a death god+a genius working together and in the end Kira lost
holy shit you didnt understand Monster at all! Johan wasn't caught by Tenma because Tenma outsmarted him or something (hell Tenma didn't even kill Johan). Johan wanted Tenma to kill him, he held Tenma's hand for Tenma to get to him and shoot him. Besides, L needs to prove that Johan was behind the murders, the only reason people even knew about Johan was because he wanted to show himself to Tenma at the start of the series. How the hell will L even start the investigation when Johan leaves NO traces of him being there in any of his crimes (btw L didn't know the Death Note was a thing until the middle of the series and Kira unlike Johan wanted the spotlight to be on him, which is a direct opposite of Johan who leaves no traces in his crimes)And don't forget that Johan has murderers and an entire neo-nazi far-right extremist group at the palm of his hand which he would not hesitate to use to kill whoever goes after him that isn't Tenma.
@@nathin157 buddy a literal death god is a massively more impressive thing to have on your side. Also Johan did lose to Tenma given Johans goal was to shatter Tenmas idealism by making Tenma a murderer which he failed to do when Tenma rescued him at the end. Second you have 0 intelligence feats from Johan that put him above Kira. Kira didn’t even have to hide any evidence… he could literally kill anything without tying it to himself at all. L still found out about his murder and from the very beginning of the show before he had any evidence even to base anything off suspected Light. That requires an insane amount of intuition and intelligence well above Johans sloppy murders that managed to lead a fucking random doctor to him.
This dude scares me. By analyzing and proceeding over the views of two highly intellectual ones. It's was like a battle of minds versus the monster itself by catching cat and mouse doing. Huge respect
Personaly i think Johan would win, yes L is anonymous but so is johan in a sense. Johan isnt smarter then L but he is better at acting, deceiving and maniplating. Well if he was to really team up with tenma then probably yes, but i dont think L wouldve connect the family murders to one individual
My first anime was deathnote but l can't beat Johan it is never about intelligence Johan just don't fear death he won't die until he want he won't be catch by anyone until he want
@@pxllfx3207 He may not be a detective, but during the copycat killer episode, He went to the house and did the EXACT same deduction method as Lunge and even came to the same conclusion all on his own. That leads me to believe he himself is smart enough to be one.
My first anime was deathnote but l can't beat Johan it is never about intelligence Johan just don't fear death he won't die until he want he won't be catch by anyone until he want
I would say no. One thing Johan can do is that, he can manipulate everyone (average human) and most of his case, it was Robert that committed the murder, not him, and Robert and Johan keep changing names in almost every case. The best L can do is find Johan suspicious, but I don't think he gonna ever find a single trace about Johan, if he doesn't know anything about Johan's pass like Tenma does. So suspicious isn't enough to catch someone, not to mention, Johan never even stay in one place, he's always ahead of everyone, even Tenma is being part of Johan plan, even though Tenma knows everything about Johan.
L found out, with no prior examples or real world scenarios, that there was a serial killer operating in Japan, who could kill without making contact and later just by seeing a person's face. L, the epitome of rational and logical deduction, concludes that Kira has a supernatural murder weapon. And of this deduction he was highly positive and went on to uncover this weapon, had it not been for Rem lying about the rules and then killing L, which L anticipated, L would proven who Kira was. Johan doesn't have half the resources Light had, and even Tenma goes on to uncover significant pieces of information about him. L is solving this case bro, with mid difficulty.
@@mawandemdutywa2571 he isnt Unlike light, johan isnt even a real person A ghost, if not for tenma, no one would know johan, sure, there's this monster that gangsters are talking about But non eof them saw him, nor do they know his real name He is literally the most unsuspicious guy, L wont even find any clues, tenma had everything, and told everyone about everything, and they still needed several years to actually get it You're telling me L without having info hande to him on a golden plate would catch him? L would get killed by his own team in a few days.
@@lordofdestruction9351 L was battling against not one ghost, but against 2 of them, and in the end it was one of those ghosts that killed him, by writing his name in a death note. Johan is a makeshift ghost, nowhere near the real deal. L stopped a world war, without revealing his identity to anyone still. L is a multimillionare and keeps Watari with him at all times, Watari who is probably some ex ultra special forces military guy, no one is killing L. L wont find clues? Tenma is a doctor, and he found plenty, Grimmer found some of his own, the alcaholic detective and just about everyone else who had a genuine interest in the case found clues. tell me why L wouldnt be able to find clues, when even regular cops followed the trail of the couples who got killed for whatever reason. what your missing here is that L is a shonen character, written to be a superhuman, and even though Johan is unreallistically smart as well, he is more grounded and realistic character. L wins this.
@@mawandemdutywa2571 How is L gonna find all the clues about Johan when only Tenma knows about Johan past? I bet L will fvking get kill by one of Johan's manipulated people ☠ Johan manipulated DETECTIVE Agents bro, anyone that seen his face and know him will die lol even if L knows who Johan is, what's he's gonna do about it? Who gonna believe him if he have no evidence about Johan? Obviously Robert is the one is the murderer. That's basically Tenma whole life is 💀He literally knows everything about Johan, and told police abbout it, yet, the police don't even do anything about it, because they all suspected Tenma to be the killer, and that was one of Johan's plan💀
@@mawandemdutywa2571Tenma only knew Johan was still alive because Johan wanted Tenma to know he was alive. Johan was deliberately inviting Tenma to come find him. If Johan didn't want L to know he exists, he wouldn't
My first anime was deathnote but l can't beat Johan it is never about intelligence Johan just don't fear death he won't die until he want he won't be catch by anyone until he want
@@NeoReoxis Johan doesn't have an ego or a motive that's the difference. L wouldn't have even found out about Johan in the first place since he probably would have never used the death note or used it very sparingly. He is also more obscure than L was, like I was saying L would have never detected Johan.
I think Johan would win. L could prove Johan's existence easier than Tenma did, but L wouldnt be able to stick any convictions against him because most times, Johan just doesnt exist. Great video btw!
Richard went directly after Johan, which cost him his life. If L would do that it would most likely end the same way, but if he doesn't go directly after him he will have a very hard time finding out anything about him. I think L wouldn't be able to catch Johan, he would either die or would know nothing about his identity and eventually gave up due to lack of clues or do something risky which would also most likely cost his life. Even though Light had the death note he was somewhat catchable because he made some mistakes and he became the primary suspect fast. Johan in the other hand had 0 mistakes, he was like the perfect criminal, who left no trace. Also Johan didn't use all his strenght in Monster because the other characters couldn't challange him at all. Everything in the series went as he planned, well except the random drunk guy shooting him in the end. Johan would have a lot of tools that he could use to stay hidden from L or eventually trick and kill L if he tries to do something.
I watched the whole video, all the comments and felt like watching a million plus subscribed youtube channel, AND IM STILL SO FREAKIN SHOCKED YOU ONLY AT 7K, THIS VIDEO ALONE IS WORTHY OF AT LEAST A 500K VIEWS bruh, the editing, the analysis, I was not even sure if this was a original or a fake account, you'll grow soon bruh, This was freakin lit.
alotta ppl been saying this recently that im pre small so i appreciate it alot!! also im real i have 2 diff channels (in my channel section on this channel) and i sound the exact same in all. anyways appreciate it!!
@@blvckpsyche7298 Johan might manipulate him into thinking he's the good guy and everything he's doing is for the greater good (this has been proved lots of times in the anime by how he was able to make everyone think he's a sweet guy and was able to make people do his bidding). Moreover, he could exploit Light's god complex.
idk who would win, but in my opinion the chances are high on Johan, just because of how evil he is, willing to go to any lengths, while L has Limitations when going to certain lengths
I'd be curious to see a video for L vs Friend from 20th Century Boys too. Both Johann and Friend are geniuses, both incredibly charismatic, and both with many followers at their disposal.
This an interesting video and I think your right when you say Tenma or nina is probably Ls greatest avenue to find Johan and probably through Sophie if he can track her down before she dies. however I think your underestimating Johan infiltration and investigative skills Johan was able to use his nina disguise to keep tabs on police activity and cover his tracks on grimmer case. considering Johan already wide influence in germany and Ls affiliation with the police in Germany through the FBI its likely he would be able to find out L is indirectly on his case through Suk or other people he can manipulate but i agree johan wont be able to know Ls true identity due to Ls fake aliases. also it should be known the L unlike detective lunge is a profiler and determines a modus operandi based of the killing patterns offered which is what helped him to identify light yagmi so easily but here johan tracks are covered and he lacks lights ego so L would have to reveal himself regardless as he hates to lose. also the last thing L wants would be to go face to face with johan or he will get manipulated. your right when you say L wouldnt be swayed by johans charisma but I think what makes johans manipulation so dangerous is his ability to make you challenge your own self identity. Its explained in another monster that johan manipulates by distorting making one feel isolated and then making them believe he has the way out. L has alot for johan to prey on as L is petty, childish and is conflicted with insecurities about being as monster as well. johan could exploit this to mislead him if not drive him over the edge. It seems to me that johan wont be able to identify L likewise L wont have enough information to identify johan let alone prove that he actually commited those crimes. This probably going to alot harder than the kira case.
No lol you misunderstand L. He recognizes and calls himself childish and a monster, he fully accepts it and nothing about that phases him. Assuming L meets Johan for some reason, nothing Johan can say can convince L of anything. Not to mention L is extremely hard to read even for Light who’s similarly cunning and manipulative. Even Light is more of a direct threat than Johan.
@@epic_sans8229 You forgot L hates being wrong or losing, he got depressed when Light made him think he was wrong so it's possible for L to crack and Johan is the perfect person to exploit that vulnerability and to trigger another depressive episode on L. L is not as unfazed as you think.
Johan also pre-planned everything before it happens. Thus before the clue reveal, Johan is still onto the next target. The ending happened because 5 people deduced his plan, 2 of them (Lunge and Grimmer) were there on time or even before it starts. It was just inevitable end but it was interrupted because these 5 people ended up in the place. I just think if L would be there, he would only be the one to deduce early but he cannot stop it. The town would still be annihilated with the help of the perfect weather, I don't know if Johan even predicted. Johan will still be killed by L, which is his perfect suicide.
The only reason they deduced it was because Johan showed himself to Tenma who relayed the information to others to give them the chance to deduce it, Johan was basically perfect & covering his traces, also he wouldn’t do his “perfect suicide” with L, he’d just kill L.
He didn’t really catch him though, he was killed, and that doesn’t mean he’s win since he struggled to catch BB without Naomi Misora and technically lost according to L himself. Johan wins especially in the Monster verse.
@@WorldLeader12345 It is pretty much implied that L has deduced that Light was the killer all along, but was unable to prove it. However, Johan is very good at manipulation and his actions are unpredictable. Overall, L still takes this one as his theories are beyond human comprehension, a true Monster. His actions are subtle, but will multiple layers.
The thing is L can catch Johan if he can think like Johan. The only reason L suspected Light cuz like L said they are alike minds. Childish and wants to win. Whereas, Johan didn't really want to win nor he's childish. He wants absolute perfect suicide.
@@WorldLeader12345 I mean it’s really just down to different circumstances, we wouldn’t really know how this plays out. Now if johan had the death note …
@@hectornonayurbusiness2631 because that “mastermind” was emotional, rash & had an ego, who also wasn’t as manipulative, needed his father to have any sort of influence, isn’t as knowledgable, deceptive or emotionally intelligent. L wouldn’t be able to figure out Johans killing pattern unlike Lights, Johan is better at covering his tracks also even without a notebook, can actually manipulate the police, FBI & others to do his bidding, something Kira couldn’t do, Johan has more advantages over Light than Vice Versa. Johan >= L >= Light.
@@WorldLeader12345 I would say it would be easier than Light, narrowing someone killing people all across the world is much harder. Johans crimes are more localised and L would triangulate on him fast. The challenging thing is not finding him, he could do that because he has caught elusive serial killers before such as B, but proving Johans crimes would be the harder part since they are mostly through influence and manipulation.
@Panda Eyez not really L was really only able to find corner light due to his ego by tricking him with the broadcast. The issue with johan killings is that they are indirect through other criminals and hitmen that have no connection to johan. Unlike light where he had a clear lead due to the pattern of lights killings johan has no pattern to draw from. The only trail left by johan in the show are trails that he left purposefully
With the topic, the editing and how everything was presented about a REALLY interesting matchup considering how much I loved Monster (and Death Note)...you have earned my sub :)
Nice analysis. Subscribed for more, maybe something *Grimmer* connected... 🤔 But for Johan, I think, You missed, or touched barely upon FOUR things. 1. Yes. Johan has 'no pride', or at least doesn't let it to drive him, which prevents easy mistakes, like one that *narrowed drastically* L suspects in Light case. 2. Closing up on Johan, probably by entering same school is double edge sword, because Johan can use L's pride and him being not fully 'good' against him. When like with Light, pretending friends, L mainly checked on Yagami's reactions, not too bothered by LIGHT SEARCHING HIM UP, when once failed, Johan will have all Chechoslovakian KGB(so bunch of sociopathic masterminds, to which cases, like BB is nothing, with how much murders THEY got under belts) searching on L, without officially moving finger. Also him being for many Fuhrer reincarnation, will make them so much more determined, than L's cooperatives, even from FBI. 🤷🏻♀️ As either we assume, Johan is in L's times, so got all his technology and peoples using it to help... OR we got L without all his technology toys, that lower his chances. 🤷🏻♀️ 3.L can use ANNA, if he get enough info, but it will make him enemy in Tenma's eyes. 🤷🏻♀️ Even if provocation of using Anna will work, to not lower his chances, not fully trusting 'same genotype as Johan/not excluding ANNA CAN BE JOHAN', he willl NOT inform Tenma. Which will grow distrust in pure doctor, who will not let use people, especially someone so pure, like Nina. 🤷🏻♀️ 4.Finally, IF Johan accept him enough, there will be a thing about KILLING JOHAN. Directly. One thing, if L will be able to do it, as watching is different, than pulling a trigger. Other, if he will understand, that doing it will make him LOSE, which he HATE. Because this is Johan goal, proving we are all monsters. 🤷🏻♀️ Summing up, yes, L is great and all, but he has also past to pry upon. 🤷🏻♀️ Light was too proud to make some moves, or too self absorbed, to TRUELLY SEE RYUUZAKI. 🤷🏻♀️ If Johan get under L's fears and his own dozen of guilts... It can be as much game over for him. 🤔
1. Agreed. 2. He would've looked up what L likes, found out he likes sweets, and buys him candy with either poison or razor blades in it. 3. Getting those 2 involved would be hazardous to him rather then a help not only because of what you said but also because Tenma would constantly be working against L by trying to get Anna out of this situation. Also Johan can easily mess with either of their heads and get them to kill him before L solves the case. There's also the chance that it might be Johan in disguise. At that point all Johan has to do is get him alone and shoot him. 4. He would most likely send the police or Wateri to do it. To clear this up the best chance L has is with the Kira task force and the police of both worlds helping him with the case that way all of Johan's allies would be neutralized and L could finally checkmate him.
If Johan ever felt he was being suspected by more than just police I feel he would either mentally destroy whoever else is suspecting him(in this case L) or he’d just completely disappear if ever at high risk of being caught, he is complete evil manifested in the form of a human, without the help of Tenma, L is better off just trying to solve Lights case. Johan isn't afraid to lose anything, on the other hand it's only debatable whether L would go through UTMOST lengths to catch Johan or someone like him and I believe he wouldn’t be able to catch him, though with the help of Tenma it’s only close but mostly favoring Johan.
@@mawandemdutywa2571 That serial killer has two big flaws, his ego and emotions, those two very things I could imagine Johan being able to manipulate and toy with (not with ease though, but he’d likely be able to do so, given lights personality). The thing about Johan is he is a complete psychopath (something Light is not), a genius, and master manipulator (light is a great one just not a masterful one) and all while being able to be 100% isolated from his emotions(Johan) when he wants or pleases, and so I couldn’t really imagine L or Light finding it easier to manipulate or catch him then it would be for him trying to manipulate them. I could also fairly imagine Johan being able to catch L in a trap(L would likely pick up on this almost immediately after the fact) that would serve to give away that he’s watching him and then would immediately disappear/go into hiding and then likely would plan something to mess with L, for instance killing random civilians in random locations(leaving no reason or traces) which would serve to piss off and torment L just to show he is incapable of solving and catching every evil in a case. L vs Johan would be like a chess match, though L would have more powerful pieces and would only be able to see Johan’s pieces after they moved or played their part whilst Johan could normally see L’s pieces and can easily trap them but would have nothing to really take L down unless he is exposed or put in a situation where he has to be, It’d be a very dangerous game…but none the less Johan has nothing to lose and he's perfect evil...
While i think johan would not be able to mentally destroy L. If he realise someone like L is out to get him. He will become absolutely untraceable. The only reason Detective brown was able to trace him was because he was deliberately leaving evidence so Tenma could catch him. I think with someone like L in the world they would not even know about johan existence
@@IRAS175I4 Thanks and yeah L would be the harder of the two to manipulate, but in comparison to Johan of course it’s closer between the two than either of them to Johan and that's because he's simply a better manipulator and they have attachments/things they're connected to that can be used against them whilst Johan usually does not. Also, I don't believe Johan would be able to manipulate L however I’d 100% believe he'd be able to manipulate some of the people or things L would use against him.
I don’t think anyone presented a challenge to Johan, but L definitely would. I think as in the case with Tenma, the only thing that would affect Johan’s plans would be a twist of fate; otherwise L would end up dead
Yeah because if they met face to face Johan probably kills him because L certainly isn’t catching him or proving him guilty in Germany, Johans got far more influence there.
@@WorldLeader12345 what influence did Tenma have, dude was on the run. Also L would not come if he was not given a permission to come and have physical help. Also, in a h2h combat, L clears Johan.
@@WorldLeader12345 L had never shown his face before Kira case. He's careful when it comes to his personal safety and people he works with. In addition, L is capable of gaining help of all of the worlds detective buros, FBI and even mass media. Johan may not be caught by L, but he never affects/manipulates L too.
I'd guess that if L doesn't use Tenma, Johan would overwhelm him by manipulating his underlings. With Tenma, I think L has a major advantage and raises his chances of winning by quite a lot.
L was smarter than kira, the whole anime kira needed ryuk to help him just to not get caught by L monstrous intelligence. Kira was always terrified of L but never the other way around
Me personally... I don't think L would be able to win, not because he's less smarter but because Johan never stays at one place. He knows everything that is going on and that may include knowing L's identity. He appears everywhere and disappears instantly like a true Monster so yes I think he takes it. But it can go either way, extreme diff though for any of them!
Finally someone mentioned monster in their top 10, I mean it’s a W anime and story and it has one of the smartest characters in anime history (Johan Liebert)
I think there is a parallel between L and Johan like yk the special orphanage training and even L's speech on monsters where he says if he were to encounter such monster, he'd likely be eaten by it because in truth he's that monster... I think based on this statement the ''monster'' will win, and both L and Johan will lose.
I think Johan would win if Tenma isn't there, a big part of monster was that no one really knew about Johan, only because Tenma knew about him did the story progress. He would have gone on forever if the doctor wasn't there. He's so far behind the scenes that I don't think L could figure it out. Especially since he leaves no trace.
L is a mastermind detective, but we can't deny that Johan is a formidable opponent. Many believe that Johan is untouchable, a monster who can outwit anyone. However, we must also acknowledge that L is equally cunning and brilliant. While ordinary people may recognize Johan's existence, it takes someone like L to truly understand and anticipate his moves. Yet, despite his exceptional abilities, catching Johan will be an incredibly tough challenge for L. He needs to be cautious and seek assistance if necessary. At this critical moment, L must be careful not to make any mistakes, as one wrong move could cost him his life and give Johan the advantage. However, if L manages to outmaneuver Johan at this stage, he will secure a remarkable victory. Let's not underestimate L's intellect and determination. Despite the odds being stacked against him, L has the potential to outsmart Johan and emerge victorious.
Johan would win 100%. L is extremely smart but that's the limits of his abilities. Johan is extremely smart while also being incredibly charismatic and manipulative. Johan is able to delve into the human psyche so effectively that he convinced a man to kill himself in a few minutes of conversation. All of his plans were incredibly detailed despite them spanning a long time and having many people involved. I'm genuinely convinced he must have had some sort of time travel or future prediction ability in order to orchestrate things to the level that he did. L is at a massive disadvantage because he wouldn't be able to trust anyone in the police force and simply killing Johan would go against his principles.
but L was at a massive disadvantage against light with him having the literal perfect murder weapon and arguably the most lethal weapon in the whole anime verse, since it could be anyone L could trust anyone yet he narrowed down the people to trust, because L is just smart he excels in many other areas including but not limited to manipulating people, analysing people( which he can use to determine both how to find and approach/deal with his suspects and figure out the right people to trust) he figured Light and how he thinks without ever meeting him, and knew how to exploit this he was squeezing water from stone using everything at his disposal even risking his life on the line he who approach Johan very differently to light, at least Johan killing aren't bis super natural means he does have to be there at times for his killing with a level of analytical ability like L he can really put it to use here unlike with light
@@mrx4814the problem here is Johan is a monster, winning is not in a human sense for him, him dying was literally him winning. Being caught or losing freedom are not him losing, not doing what he wants is him losing meaning he straight up just wants to kill and if you are a nuisance no matter the sacrifice
L is my fave character in Death Note but there's just no way he can catch Johan, I mean not a single person suspected him except for some people who he purposefully revealed himself to play with them
I think it's also really important to take into consideration the time period, since L would be in the time period of Johan he'd have a lot less technology to use and would need to do more ground work which he's not great at.
As always i am late as ever I apologize for that, The points in this video and narration That was true representation of points strategically through Nice one this was , also btw that's secretly revel some of your characterstics
i think johan would win after all he never got caught only once but it was left unclear if he escaped or not also johan left tenma alive due to him being his doctor i think even if L was annonymus he would find a way within the police or some german people with influence to find L and he would probably kill him or just break him, johan had an entire city to kill each other i dont find a way that L would win even if L was stopping ww3 i think johan could do it to and he could even start the ww3 if he chose to
Yes if Johan figures out that someone is behind the scenes he could try find him IF L is linked to the german police. If L is more independent its harder to track him. But yeah
My first anime was deathnote but l can't beat Johan it is never about intelligence Johan just don't fear death he won't die until he want he won't be catch by anyone until he want
dude , L would obviously know that the police is corrupt before hand , just use ur fkin mind dude like really no fkin arguements just this will happen because of influence , even L had a lot of influence as well so it would be really easy for him to know that the police or people there is corrupt. just tell me how johan would win. your claims are delusional unless u don't back it up by facts
@@mysteriousguy666 dude what is your age , really , learn to comprehend what is said , i highly doubt u have seen both anime . i said he would have known how the things work and wouldn't trust the officials like in kira case , as L himself has a ton of sources and connection in underworld as well. but this is far much than u could ever comprehend . so just leave it and my advice is don't see these videos , u are made for those vs battles at yt shorts
