In S9E28 of Wyrm Lyfe, we check out the final designs with Paladin Woodworking. 🕯 CANDLES wyrmwoodgaming... 🤜 Wyrm Lyfe Shields: bit.ly/WyrmLyf... 🪓 Find Us, Nerds: bit.ly/Wyrmwoo... #dnd #woodworking #ttrpg
I do not agree with replacing the Paladin logo with the Wyrmwood logo. I am indifferent to a combined logo of Wyrmwood and Paladin. I like the idea of Paladin Collection crafted by Wyrmwood or the items discreetly saying crafted by Wyrmwood.
Ok then first things first I fully agree with this idea so that people can know what they are getting, and also I have a question about your handle name, I am currently creating a warlock char. For DnD that has a pact with a devil, but I want it to be someone who to get something done has to go to an underling demon kind of like a mafia to run it up the flagpole to his boss in this case a devil my question is this does it have your permission to call it the Demon's mafia
I think Bobby is right, there should be a Wyrmwood mark on the underside or something indicating who constructed it, but Paladin is clearly the designer mark here. Whether that's sufficient for Wyrmwood, in combination with an exclusive craft (and distribution?) license is a different question and one that will likely involve Frank.
I agree, You'd just need to make sure the dice rolling tray doesn't get too thin to match though. It needs to be usable, I've tried so many thin dice trays that look nice but as soon as you try to actually use it the dice just bounce over the sides out of the tray.
Paladin Woodworking needs to be front and center. I love the Wyrmwood shield, but it wouldn't feel right otherwise. Wyrmwood can be on there somewhere, but would rather see the nice big Paladin logo.
I would want to hear from Scott what he wants to see for branding (not from Doug/Bobby/Jason, no offense!) before leaning one way or another on whose logo goes on the front.
I like this a lot. No branding iconography for paladin or wyrmwood, but a nice bold-ish font that is the paladin x wyrmwood could look really good if centered right
I think the Paladin logo needs to stay, that is his idea and work, it would be like if someone making merch had the company producing its logo on it. But I think if you had that Paladin logo, in fine print under it you could do x wrymwood or wrymwood manufactured. Letting the people know you guys crafted it, but it wasn’t your idea.
Could do it like how sneakers do collabs, and brand it something like Paladin X Wyrmwood. Wyrmwood essentials sounds a little cheap, something like Wyrmcrafted or Wyrm Made or Wyrmfab etc might be cool/
@@nikzuLP Yeah, I was just thinking if they want a separate line in general that's less expensive than their main products. But since this one is a collaboration, it definitely should have branding from both companies.
My crew has always called the stat layouts on character sheets "Stat blocks". So calling the inserts "Blocks" and the "brick" that holds them might be an option.
When I think of Wyrmwood, I think attention to detail, quality, simplicity, and a beautiful marriage of form and function. This is a result of your origins in craftsmanship. I think "Wyrmwood is about craftsmanship" is a trap that will limit you. There is no reason you can't expand past your origins, but ensure your ideals and mantras hold true. I think the reason this collaboration seems like such a good idea is Paladin shares a lot of Wyrmwoods ideals - but could use help in the form department, and stand on the shoulders of the giant that's come before. Don't overthink it - a marriage of your logos for this line of products (and in the future) makes sense, it's a collab, not a takeover, not an acquisition, etc. Etc. When I think about the branding/logo dilemma, my first thought goes to something like what Apple does for all their products (who again, I feel align with your design ideals): Designed by Paladin, Built by Wyrmwood
I don't have anything against laser-cut work - hell, I've got one myself, and make all sorts of things with it - but it would definitely feel weird to see the Wyrmwood logo on them. I associate that logo with a level of polish (or sure, craftsmanship) that the trackers and boxes you're showing off will just never have. The resin and gemstone dice, while you aren't making them yourselves, you're vetting them, doing at least some of the design work, and ultimately making sure they're a worthy match to your other products. Put those dice in one of the vaults, and they match. Put a tracker tile next to a vault? Those are not going to match. Don't get me wrong, I think Paladin is doing some amazing design work, but the end results of the two manufacturing processes are just at a different level.
I’m with you. I won’t be buying any of these. The aesthetic is vastly different than the Wyrmwood products and that matters to me. Plus, I personally like having digital toolsets now for character sheets and stats. I’m in on DM screens and sit-stand desks though
I think it's important for Scott to have his logo on his design. Perhaps the Wrymwood shield in half his helm on the other. ORRR could just make a logo base as the helm, but with the Wyrmwood tree being the visor. He deserves mad credit for this. I do got a slogan for you guys "Wrymwood crafted, Paladin divined"
The strength of the Wyrmwood brand is the level of quality it implies. Even if the core work is done via laser, as long as the end product is of Wyrmwood quality it works. A high quality, real wood, piece of D&D paraphernalia.
The one big issue i see with replacing the logo with the Wyrmwood one is that when "going to a friends house and seeing the product" that friend will think this is a "Wyrmwood only product" and when going to the Wyrmwood site will be saddened to see, from their perspective, a "discontinued product" since they cant find it there. So in regard to the logos i would think to do the Paladin logo and the Wyrmwood in some separate configuration so it is clear to the customer where they can "buy the product". like "designed by Paladin" and "crafted by Wyrmwood".
It's a Paladin design fulfilled by Wyrmwood, so keeping Scott's logo and having a quiet 'we made it' somewhere feels right (to this layperson, at any rate)
All I keep thinking is what if the lid of the sleeve attached to the side with magnets to become your rolling surface. I think with some modification and sizing it could still acts a lid and add extreme functionality without the consumer having to buy a separate product. Food for thought.
"That person is never buying anything from us ever again." Or they will have a well crafted piece of all encompassing gaming gear that makes it a no brainer for their friends to buy too. Personally, I'm way less likely to buy a product if I'm buying into a whole ecosystem. Because then, not only am I locked in, but I'm constantly disappointed at what the thing I currently have can't do.
I agree that I don't agree that people would buy once and then never again... What happens if they want to play a different game? Or when D&D goes to 5.5 or 6e? What if they bought the trackers for the Wizard, but now they have a Barbarian Character? And like you said their friends may want to buy their own trackers and tray. There are so many opportunities to launch expansions and updated trackers here, this line could live on indefinitely.
Maybe if you still have all that miss sized felt still lying around you can use it for the rolling trays? It would add a pop of color that I would love. Also keeping it branded Paladin with a produced by wyrmwood marker makes sense. As cool as these items are they don't read very wyrmwood and don't quite click with all the other modular stuff you have which would be confusing.
"Paladin: a Wyrmwood Gaming Partner" Something like that allows you to place the branding of whomever you collaborate with, but still refers back to you guys.
Bigger print "Paladin Woodworking Designs" smaller print "Crafted at Wyrmwood" or "In collaboration with Wyrmwood". Also, maybe add an extension bar to his new magnets which click into your tables?
Personally, I'd love to see a Wyrmwood x Paladin sort of logo where both logos are on there. Like take the text out of the paladin logo and use just the icons from both brands. I think it would look pretty solid. 👍
Firstly, great job making the tray and sleeves modular. That design is amazing. If this product does sit at a much lower price point then classic Wyrmwood vaults, then I have no doubt you'll get tons of orders. The people I play with love Wyrmwood products, but I'm the only one in my group that has actually purchased anything. Price is the only thing holding them back.
I love the idea of both logos and the mention of collaboration. I think seeing a brand open to collaboration is a positive selling point. With both logos neither loses its unique selling qualities.
I agree with Jason on this - the Paladin products do not encompass the "Wyrmwood" brand. I don't think Wyrmwood should be selling a cheap feeling laser-cut tile system.
A combination of Wyrmwood and Paladin as a sub-line sounds like a very cool idea. Jason, Bennet, and team design for Wyrmwood line and Scot and team designs for the other line. Thank you all for showing the behind the scenes.
The Wyrmwood brand is known as quality products that offer a lifetime of use. A product that is designed to be used for generations. A product so good, the craftsman signs their name.
Wyrmwood was about craftsmanship at its birth. And it still is today. The only difference now is that you’re making that craftsmanship much more affordable.
My issue with the trackers is… for D&D, I always have so much more stuff I need to track. Whether it’s stats, inventory, subclass abilities. The trackers never fully meet my needs, so I still end up needing a character sheet, or something written. At which point, the trackers kinda feel like more extra clutter that looks cool, not something that solves a problem or adds more functionality. For those liking the product, I’m kinda curious why. It might just not be for me, but I am curious who it IS for.
Agreed. I am more attracted to cool products and not that it was "handcrafted." Do you know how many mom and pop flea market vendors can give me handcrafted or special requests?
As has been pointed out by demonsmafia below, it really should be the Paladin logo with "Manufactured by Wyrmwood", just "by Wyrmwood", or something similar in the usual Wyrmwood font. It's simple. Tasteful. And, it gives credit to the original designer without also giving a nod to Wyrmwood being the one to manufacture and bring it to the world market.
I love the idea of cork so much better than synthetic/faux leather. Cork feels like it fits with the Paladin line in terms of style and price point: quality and thoughtful design, just less expensive. If I see leather, I would expect a higher-price-point product and real leather. Synthetic feels cheap, and it doesn't hold up long term. (Faux suede might look ok, if it's the high-quality stuff that has a bit of a nap and actually looks like suede, but it doesn't provide as much cushion as cork or faux leather, so if you're looking for sound deadening, it wouldn't work.) And the Paladin accessories definitely need to stay slim. They don't need dice or mini storage! If someone wants storage, they need a Wyrmwood dice vault or hero vault! For buyers on a budget, the eastern elm and cherry vaults are very affordable, and they're a good stepping stone from lower-priced "starter" products to higher-tier "this is my life's obsession now" products, lol.
I like Bobby and Doug's stance on "Craftmanship" here. A nice laser cut product is, most likely, more approachable than a lot of your products. Make quality gaming gear. Make it good. Make it last, make it out of decent materials, but if you can offer a product people want in a price range more people can afford, that's not a bad thing. It doesn't have to be a "craftsman" experience to still be a quality experience.
In the spirit of magnetic modularity, why not make a slate/tracker storage addon to the 'Sleeve' that just clicks to the bottom, probably makes it double its current height all together but should have enough space for 6 or even 9 additional slates/trackers based on their thickness. Your 'Sleeve' would act as the lid and because its magnetic you could stack as many below as you need storage, just grab/click the 'set' you need for that night's gaming or just roll with the 'Sleeve' itself if your needs are few. Also, the slate/tracker box solo would be nice if the sides were magnetic and could combo together. Ex: You get your paladin dice tray and two solo boxes - because they're magnetic they can click in to the inside/outside of your dice tray and now you have a more compact slate/tracker + tray experience in a more horizontal alignment. And because you have the larger tray for rolling, you could use the cavity inside your solo boxes to transport your mini and/or wyrmwood sketch pencil and/or sticky notes pad. Looking forward to the kickstarter!
An idea for simple branding could be (paladin woodworking helmet) x (Wyrmwood shield) wherever logos end up being placed like on the lid of the sleeve or branded/lasered on the cork or leather of the tray
I really enjoyed watching this series from the pitch of taking on Paladin woodworking to design meeting and critique to the finalized design and discussion of its position in the wyrmood company umbrella I was apprehensive when I saw the pitch due to the stark difference in design and aesthetic between wyrmwood and Paladin but the designs were intriguing and had function the design meeting convinced me of its viability as a product but the designs weren't something I was in love with... the final designs and products on the other hand were the chefs kiss per se the perfect balance of form and function and then the discussion as to where it fit in the wyrmood line (personally I feel out of the three defined categories in this episode it should be a Paladin product and logo with made by wyrmood as part of that logo like it is a seperate branch of wyrmwood that has it's own name possibly it's own website or page linked through wyrmwood) as well as really showcasing the roles and mindsets of those in charge of wyrmwood from top to bottom its this series that really defines for us watching who really does what and how they think as part of the company
For me I love the Idea of an essential line with the paladins helmet for the logo on top and yours on the inside of the lid so both get some line of sight.
Wormwood brand. Or Wormwood with 'essentials' under the logo. And then on the back or the bottom: "Design by Paladin Woodwork." It allows you to do the same thing with other designers if you so choose, and also lines up with what Bobby said about the Wyrmwood Candles (poured by so and so).
This product deserves to have both brands on it. At it's core it's Paladin. Now, I saw that single tile that also holds dice... Is that going to be a thing? It was talked about for two seconds. One tracker that holds dice that's leather or felt on the inside for rolling in would be perfect for on the go.
If both the Paladin logo and the Wyrmwood logo were on it with an 'x' in-between to center it nicely, that would be great. What would be even better is to maintain the Paladin logo as the focus, and maybe have a small Wyrmwood logo to the bottom right corner as if it were a copyright symbol for the line.
I like the Paladin logo. I already have Wyrmwood products and like the different aesthetic attached to the different brands, allows me to mix and match without feeling like I have 'wyrmwood' and 'lower cost wyrmwood.' They are different styles and should be branded as such.
I would love to see Paladin designs for the logo and made by wyrmwood. This really feels different from the products that are designed in house and having that separation feels more natural (it also gives credit to the man who designed it)
Bobbies right in this case, if WW was all about the craftsmanship it wouldn't of done what its done already. WW stands more for what the craftsmanship has proved, which is quality products. Laser or not its a quality product that has buyers waiting to have it. I see nothing wrong with it. Jason has the point on resell-ability and function though. Keep up the good work lads!
Scott's/Paladin Woodworking work is also craftsmanship... new school but still... The amount of hours that takes to learn to design that, do it well, and all of the artistic background you need to have prior to touching a program like illustrator or alike is something that should be respected as a modern form of craftsmanship.
It's nice to see that they have the concern of still wanting paladin rep their product and don't want to steal their thunder. I'm excited for these to come out. I'm 100% getting some
Doesn't look like the sleeker design would have space for that awesome dice jail feature that was shown on the large tray. I think if you're making them big enough to fit dice, you've gotta incorporate that at some point. I know many who would see that little jail as a massive selling point.
Class Slates, Slate Crate (1 tracker box), Tracker Keeper (3 tracker tray), Paladin Tray (rolling tray) "Paladin Essentials Crafted by Wyrmwood" Use the (Brand) X Wyrmwood format you use for working with Dispel, nix both logos, and center right the design on the keeper lid. For the Slates (trackers), use the back for a mark of Wyrmwood since it's empty real estate and would be a nice show spot for those who might store their Slates upside down in the keeper/crate. Or, if you really feel like you need a logo, use the Paladin logo and make a new design for your "Crafted by Wyrmwood" stuff (since this has the potential to expand) to add to the underside of the products.
If Wyrmwood's logo is on this thing at all, it should be secondary to Paladin. I agree with Bobby that it should be done like they did the candles. I do also agree that if it is to be part of the craftsman's promise, then for a period of time it needs to be provided exclusively by Wyrmwood.
I like Paladin designs, Crafted by Wyrmwood. It keeps a foot in the door for other partnerships. Not just Paladin. Free slogan: "Wyrmwood says craftsmanship, but Crafted by Wyrmwood says quality." Side note, even though I think the logos should be separate.. I would love to see the Paladin helmet inside the Wyrmwood Shield just because. Maybe in the center of the rolling tray as art?
