Can We Go Up the Cliffhanger in Two Old Land Rovers Without One Breaking? 

Great video guys!

After almost 3 feet of snow overnight and being plowed in, our LR3 plowed out of the parking spot with NO shoveling. Many baffled shovelers realized where Rovers get part of their reputation that morning. Things a billy goat with bad knees.

I like the dad moment at about 9:35 "Tommy don't do that".

My mom owns a 2011 LR4 HSE and it still runs amazing 160,000 miles later. its had it rover moments where something weird happens but none of those things have ever kept it from starting up, running, and getting my mom where she needs to go.

I've had two Discovery 2's and they have been bomb proof. My first one had 490000km on the clock and it never left me anywhere, the second one with many fewer km on it was just as good (with fewer leaks too) and I ended up giving it to my sister, I'm not done yet though as I have plans to import a Disco 2 with a TD5 and a manual

As an LR3 owner I think that your reactions were that of a newby to the terrain response system. There is a learning curve that goes along with these. Your foot will adjust, and learn to keep a firm and steady pressure. You will both soon learn that these things will go anywhere! Name another vehicle that could step off the highway and go straight up the trail stock, no airing down no locking the diffs, just heading into the wild. I think that part of your suspension hunting issues may be due to how that lift kit works... basically it is fooling the suspension into thinking it's lower and I'd bet that is part of the problem. I have an '06 with 124K.

Stop it, you'll make the Touareg and Discovery prices go up and I want one of those so bad!!!

Tommy: puts his head dangerously between the body and wheel Disco 3: do you know my reliability score, boy?

Brother s nice videos.... LR3 vs Touareg When ?

I would like to see this done again and throw a forth gen 4Runner into the mix.

9:22 Tommy testing Darwin's theory of Natural Selection.

you kill articulation with the lift kits in the LR3 unless you use the Lucky8 tower blocks to lower the air strut. The LR3 is at its best in its factory form.

HDC in Disco 2 deactivate when you touch the gas and/or the brake pedal in order to let you control the car. If you want to use it, do not touch any pedal and it will work perfect

i think extended height mode betrayed performance. like Tommy said, in extended height mode there is no suspension travel which reduces traction (and comfort). it's a double edged sword. it provides a ton of benefits but can actually be an impediment

I love my Disco 2. I've been up left hand canyon in a 86 stock Jeep Wagoner in 2003. Was pretty sketchy then bet it's impossible by most rigs now. I sold a 04 Rubicon for the Disco and it has only made me more comfortable and worry free. May the Disco be with you.

I plan to keep my disco 2 forever! It's such a beast offroad and in the snow. On a snowboarding trip this past winter all my friends had to get a run up to make it up a snowy hill (xterra, pathfinder, ram 2500, chevy 1500 all with snow tires) , the disco just chugged up no problem. For the money it's hard to beat, it has so much character. I had a 1985 4runner before and I loved that truck but the Disco is just so much better in almost every way. I would get a lot more props on the 4runner though at lights and what not, people love those trucks. I also had a 2006 Tundra and that motor is amazing but the truck had no soul. If the discovery 2 had that motor it would be a $20000+ vehicle still. Mine had 167,000km on it and was 12 years old and I sold it for $19,000 canadian lol. When the crappy old motor in the disco blows up i'll put a chevy 6.0l in as they have a kit now that makes it all work with the land rover computer and gauges.

Guys, where's the Samurai? I would love to watch it going uphill the cliffhanger.

You guys have the best job in the world. Out in the fresh air, father and son sharing. Love the vids.

Oh my god! I’ve missed cliffhanger 1.0 so much!!! Awesome video as always guys!

Wow guys. You covered all the details of what makes these things good and how to promote them and keep it real. Extremely impressed with your facts, opinions and ability to shine the light over all the key points of ownership. I doubt I could have put a better perspective on any of this. It is not about the #'s, it is about the personal preference and accepting what comes with it. Big Thumbs up here.

I had a disco 1 and absolutely loved it!! Im waiting for the new Defender to come out, might be my next rig!!

tommy's line was so noice and roman just goes over everythign :D

Tommy, I think any vehicle will have a horrible turning radius with a locked center differential. Also may be an excellent way to break something by turning hard when locked.

The D2 downhill assist is wicked! Check out my latest video as I test mine on a diamond track, and is a stock D2. Low range and selecting first or 2nd gear is the key. I never need to touch my peddles as it grabs what ever wheel it needs. D2 is a weapon.

So glad you have the Disco 2 still 👍👍

You guys should do old vs new game of horse behind the shop!!!! Of the tire, off the windshield, through the oil catch pan nothing but net.

keep the disco 2. and when engine bites the dust do a 2.8 cummins swap.

Been a while since we've seen Cliffhanger 1. I remember when you took the Bronco up there. Just boing right over that root.

Good video. We own a Discovery 3 (still called that in the UK) and we have had all sorts of issues but as you say, maintenance equals love 😁

It's only called LR3 in your market guys, because Yanks love trashing Brit stuff. Here in Oz it's a Disco. You guys need to learn more about how to drive them. The D2 Hill Descent works fine if you learn how to use it. The D2 TC works, but your car has CDL so TC is not necessary. LR made earlier models without the CDL, as they were starting to experiment with electronics. It wasn't successful, and they brought CDL back with the update, which your car is. The D3 Terrain Response system works really well if you use a bit more of the right pedal. BTW, I'd love you guys to come to Australia and experience some REAL tracks. I could drive my Ford Falcon up the track you are showing us here, and yeah, I know cameras don't show steep. Those two cars will do a hell of a lot more than you are attempting.

The lift rods are what’s causing it to keep lifting. They are running it in “off road height” all the time. Turn DSC off, makes a nice difference. There is also the 13.6” wheel base difference to consider. D3/LR3 is decent but have a play with the TR system. Not always the most obvious mode can get the best results. Had my D3 for 7 years now, you learn to work with it for off roading.

my 94 discovery 1 has been the most reliable vehicle i have ever owned, only issue in the past 9 years owning it a starter motor, the thing takes me to work every day and 4wdn the mountains and rivers of new zealand. the thing is great.

I own a bunch of cars. We have an LR3 and a disco 2. The disco, the way we have it set up, is WAY more capable than the 3. We also have a Wrangler Sport, the sport only has cosmetic upgrades and larger tires and the Disco is still more capable than the Wrangler.

Great video, great team. Well done boys. Just subscribed. 👍🏼

Had my Disco 2 V8 Petrol for 9 years. Never once let me down and it’s better off-road in my experience than Toyota Land Cruiser and Nissan Patrols. Mine is stock standard and operates in very hot conditions in QLD Australia. 18 years old and still going strong. Unreliability of the D2 is bogus. Most fails are owner neglect. PS the 4.4 Petrol in the D3 is BMW unit not Jaguar but used by Jaguar originally..... correct me if I’m wrong.

My 03 Discovery has been very reliable. I bought it back in 2005, it's my newer 4x4. It's been a great truck.

1) The LR3s are only called like that in the US. In the rest of the world is called Discovery 3 - 2) At least in the LR3 the speed of the Decend Hill Control is adjustable by the buttons on the steering wheel - 3) The extended mode high, cannot be manually adjusted. If the bottom of the car hits something, the suspension automatically raises itself into extended mode. Some people trick the system, by putting a block of wood underneath the car, and lowering the suspension. The car will automatically came to regular high, above a certain speed - 4) All LR3s have central diff lock and some have the rear diff lock. Yours being an HSE spec, most probably have. They again, can’t be engaged manually. When using the Terrain Response System, the car locks and unlocks the differentials automatically according to the needs. Their status can be seeing in the central screen together with the suspension settings, position of the front wheels, heigh of every individual tire and more - 5) I think in the trail you did, the DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) should be disabled. It would allowed more wheel spin, which is sometimes good for off-reading. Just press the button on the dash. I’m looking to see more LR2 vs LR3 videos in more agressive trials, snow, mud, steeper, etc. But I must say, having off-road in both, and currently having a D3 in my garage, when going to have fun in the field, noting beats my old Discovery 1. OK, it’s not standard (rear air locker, ARB suspension and lots of other improvements) but it’s a great great great mother by now, and after 25 years is still unstoppable!!!! 😊

I had a LR3 with rear locker and it was much better off road than the non-locker version. It would eat that hill for lunch with no problems.

Been waiting for another LR3 video!!

3:57 it's not surprising that the D2 has HDC as Land Rover were the ones who invented it. First used in the Freelander 1 introduced in 1997.

I love these video series on cheap off roaders! I would like to see yall get on 05-10 WK Grand Cherokee next. They are cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and have a very capable quadradrive II 4WD system with electronically locking differentials F/C/R. On top of that you get hemi power and reliability, comfortable ride, and factory tow hooks and skid plates. I personally own an 09 5.7L WK that I have set up to tow a car trailer but in the future would like to set it up more for off road.

Bought my 04 D2 for $4,900 and “invested” another 19k in it over the following 3 years. Finally sold it for 7k this year. It’s not a matter of if you’ll do the work, it’s when. Even so, I miss it every time I see one. Enjoy it and keep your fingers crossed.

Great Video guys. I'm a D2 owner and find it very interesting to see how it performs against the D3.

@ 9:29.... I like how Father educated his Son. You guys are a really good team. Wish ma father was cool like that....lol

The HD package really makes for a much better off-roader. That locking diff just makes a great vehicle even better.

Grreat video guys! what camera did you use for filming? Thanks

That comment at the end of the video is spot on. Well said!!

Extended mode is due to the rods, standard it won't do that. Lower the rod setting or remove them. It will not do that in rock mode by itself unless the chassis bellies out. At max height like that you have no downward articulation. With hill descent you can use the cruise controls to speed up and slow down the vehicle. Also terrain response will be different in high range than in low range. Will need to go into low range in order to lock the centre diff in rock and mud ruts modes.

The best upgrade for the discovery 3 would be to restore normal ride height and fit 31" tires. The lift make the car perform worse.

Disco II... greatest live axled production machine LR ever made. Thanks for a great comparison.

You need to put DSC off, Also as you see the disco 3 will keep moving .. so keep the pedal constant... extended mode is just to get out of something, you don't crowl in extended (lose a lot a flex)

Nice video! You should try a Disco 4 with rear locking differential, huge difference offroad.

Pausing at 0:55 - my guess is that the 2004 will be best! Let's see how it goes, I've been waiting for this comparison video. Thanks TFL!

Thanks for doing videos like this Much appreciated. 1 little gripe though. No doubt the weight is an issue, but to say the terra grapplers and the duratracs provide equal traction in that situation is lunacy. The grappler is far more likely to slip on roots and rocks. It just doesn't have enough tread block size or spacing to provide any real bite over obstacles like that. Plenty of great vids out there with lr3/4 climbing ridiculous stuff with some good rubber.

Good video for the great Land Rovers. Your D3 is heavy, but you were running less threaded tires on it... Oh, and the D3 has got a centre locking diff, same as the D2. It just goes on automatic. 👍😊

Wait so does the older Disco also have a form of terrain response or atrac type of system? In the beginning it makes it seem like it doesnt really but then while you're climbing the first ascend you say that the system is stopping the wheel spin?

Been meaning to watch this for ages, as the owner of a stock DII with retro fitted CDL, an interesting comparison. Not exactly the most challening off road route, but shows up the major difference between the Discovery 2 and the 3, even allowing for the lift and off road tyres on the earlier model. Traction control was introduced by Land Rover as a way forward, but it was quite basic, this however was as it turns out not a bad thing. As you pointed out with the LR3, it does require a little bit more in the way of driver input and you have a number of different settings to choose from, rather than point and go. The driver input on the throttle is also an issue to make the selective traction control work, even taking into account tyres. Use of the CDL combined with TC on the Discovery 2, takes less out on the trail , reducing damage and improving control, as well as less stress on the vehicle. You can see this on a Andrew St. Pierre White video about the subject diff locks and John Twist's CDL video made some years ago, amongst others on YT. The Discovery III or LR3 as you said was also Land Rovers first major move under Ford to go into the American market, while the concept started under BMW ownership, the move way from a the CDL was seen by many as a mistake. Land Rovers reputation was built on the lockable diff, just watch a Camel Trophy with the "stock" Discovery I and decent mud tyres meeting serious off road challenges with no electronics. A real test of TC is to try using just TC in on wet grass, or "green ice", and you will see the sytstem struggle because of the way it works, the same applies to clay surfaces, etc. The Discovery II may be "old school" but even with stock suspension, the TC combined a CDL and the right tyres makes an almost unstopable combination. As has been pointed out by previous posts, it where the rubber meets the ground that makes the difference, in this example as well. Being able to air down is usefull, but the tyre tread, size and width can make a huge difference. Tyre width can mean that the shape of the foot print changes, meaning less contact with the ground along the length of the tyre making the TC work even harder on the LR3 as well. So it would be intresting to see the LR3 with a decent set of tyres up against the DII, running the DII with an open diff, then with closed diff. Lift is taken care of by the air suspension on the LR3 and only leaves the CDL as a major difference, though of course the "newer" Discovery has a lot more ECUs.....

I'm not an "it's older so it's better" kind of person but I really do think the Disco 2 looks a lot better. The body is more Planet Fitness and less McDonalds and just seems to be more utilitarian rather than appeal to soccer moms. I've always been in the camp that avoids Land Rovers at all costs because I want to make it home without taking the heel-toe express but these videos are doing a great job at dispelling misconceptions such as that.

I sure love those HELLA fog lamps in the one Landrover. I want those for my Tacoma.

Fun video. Do this with a tall boy 1976 F 150 We used to drag ours all over the mountains and they did very well.

Great video!! RE:LR3 extended mode Probably have a bad height sensor. Extra PSI definitely hurts traction. Only go as high as need for max traction. GAP IIDTool is must have: I put mine in "build mode" for actual rock crawling.

Interesting stats: Jeep Rubicon crawl ratio 77.24:1 Ford Ranger crawl ratio 47.1:1 LR3 crawl ratio: 45.57:1 Discovery 2 crawl ratio 40.7:1 Power Wagon crawl ratio 37.2:1 Tacoma TRD Pro crawl ratio 36.17:1 FJ Cruiser crawl ratio 33.76:1 The stock LR3 crawl ratio is not bad for a 12+ year old vehicle

I've had a Disco 2 for 7 years now. It's a 2004 TD5 auto. It's never let me down, ever.! Has it ever gone wrong and needed attention? Oh yes..... lots. But the issues with these older discos tend to be lots of different irritating problems that piss you off rather than major failures that leave you stranded. Part of the charm. I would describe the Disco 2 as a loveable b....stard. If you want fun, character, a vehicle that you can mostly maintain and fix yourself (good job cos you will need to) get one. It will cast a spell on you and you will love it, hate it, threaten to sell it, scrap it, burn it, but somehow end up keeping it because it will manage to put a grin on your face just often enough for you to keep forgiving it. If you want build quality and fault free 4x4 motoring.......erm...... best go for a Toyota Landcruiser. My penneth worth. Off to mop up the oil on my drive now 😕

Great video! Could you compare LR3 with Treg?

My lr3 had new engine, boost pipe splits egr valves fail and fueling issues but me and the missus wouldn't have anything else we love them

My 2006 range rover hse has been super reliable, only " major " work i did was $750 to convert the air suspension to springs

How many miles on the LR3? hope to see more of it!

A discovery 3 with a locking centre diff is absolutely awesome. You should try it!

Question: Which one do you recommend me buy? discovery 3 2005 or jeep wj 2004 ??

Dear TFLtruck... I have a Disco 1 with Truetrac front and rear diffs and center locker... have you ever tried a comparison with something like that? My rig feels like a billy goat on everything but ice... might be worth considering :-) Love your videos... keep them coming!

My 1973 highboy has hill descent control. 1st gear and 4x4 low.

Have the johnson rods, or the rods for a lift kit given you any issues?

As an owner of a LR3 and now of a LR4, driving uphill with one of these cars it is like driving uphill with any other 4x4 with pulling anchor behind you :-D

FYI older disco HDC top speed is determined by which gear you are in and not a set top speed of ?mph 1st gear will have a much slower decent than 3rd for instance , so put it into manual mode to hold the gear (1, 2, 3 or 4th/D) and keep your foot off the break. From pg.137 04 Disco 2 manual "When driving off-road, HDC can be permanently selected, to ensure that control is maintained whenever low range gears are engaged. ABS and traction control are still fully operational and will assist if the need arises. NOTE: With HDC selected, gear changes can be carried out in the normal way" Read feel free to use the manual mode to obtain the desired engine breaking/HDC outcome for your situation. I have a 2003 Disco SE

Your LR3's suspension was giving you trouble because of those stupid lift rods that artificially "lift" the vehicle. They move the wheels into a lower position in their travel, make the suspension more bouncy, and put the sensors out of whack in off road situations. Put stock rods back in and you'll see an improvement.

IMO nothing beats the off road ability of a good old two speed transfer case with a lever and solid axles. I had an ‘84 Toyota when I lived in woodland park and that thing was unstoppable... until I rolled it on some black ice lol.

Isn’t the head gasket blown on the disco 2? I thought you said something about a long time ago

I have had 3 LR3s and getting used to the terrain response can be a bit weird. I would not have put it rock crawl going up a dry hill. The Hill Descent Control will automatically be engaged. If going up something like that, I would take it off the HDC, you can gain a little more throttle, particularly when going up and momentum is important. I am still getting the hang of the terrain response. Great vid and love seeing the the LR3s in action! sooo psyched for more vids. Oh- with the LR3/4s you need to get the IIDTool - GAP Diagnostic OBD reader- you can fix almost any computer related issue particularly the air suspension.

"High maintenance means high love", ummm no! lol

The vehicle is losing all of its cross linked suspension flex in that mode, and therefore its performance suffered tremendously going up the hill. Due to the extension rods, you might want to check the right height sensors for wear or damage (if in fact super extended mode is being activated) Rock crawl mode automatically increases the suspension height, and with those rods installed, you'll be on tiptoes. Like I said before, ditch the rods and get a GAP IID tool asap

touareg or this LR3? Which is better off road and drinking comfort? Thanks

Look at that interior! Disc 2

My 2002 Disco2 Hill descent work amazing actually!! I think what you were on was too bumpy. You find something Steep and smoother and it works great. Don't do first-year necessarily it's too much engine you need to let it actually move so it kicks in harder try second or third low range. And to be honest is actually a safety feature low range in neutral it work also then you can feel how strong is working all in its own. Mine works so well at almost brings me to a stop

both of them were the best selling off roaders here in the UK and if they were good enough for HM Queen Elizabeth then I think that gives them the credit they need

2 things - 1. I wish the dad hadn't done the test in extended range on the air suspension. I feel would have seen a more fair comparison between the lr3 and disco 2 in articulation and traction. 2. Disco 2's are awesome with their solid front axle but trying to find a reliable pre-owned disco 2 is very hard here in the US. I personally know a friend who's disco 2 engine needed rebuilt due to the overheating issues. Between that and looking at all the disco 2's for sale cheap because the head gaskets are blown I would be hesitant just going off of TFL's example of a disco 2 lol. Finding one that mint nowadays is harder to find.

Anyone know what trails cliffhanger 1.0 and 2.0 are?

İ’ve had both 2001 D2 and 2008 D3. İ would say that Disco 3 is light years ahead on and off roading. You guys need more time to figure out how Disco3 performs. You have to learn it’s dynamics. İ don’t think you guys still understand the beast.. Note: By the way that super extended mode is not normal. Somethings wrong with the sensors. İt has to stay on normal off road mode unless you seat the car at the floor.

Lol 10,000 miles is nothing man. I love the Disco 2. But I had to replace the headgaskets, the heatercore, the waterpump, radiator. After all that I also installed an inline thermostat from a chevy. After all that she finally became truly reliable. Ultra gauge is your friend by the way.

It seems like it was only yesterday that the Subaru couldn't make it up this hill.

I'm going on UK information here, but essentially Disco 2 with a Td5 diesel in it, HDC works much better. HDC on the Disco 2 relies a lot on the engine braking effect as it is working to make it effective. HDC on the Disco 2 as you know tends to pulse rather than run continuously, which is why it is not wired up to work in high range, the V8 just doesn't have the same compression the Td5 does to utilise HDC better as you descend. 9.35:1 on the 4.0 V8 vs 19.5:1 on the 2.5 Td5. On a Td5 HDC is literally twice as effective over a V8 as the engine holds the car back a lot better between the HDC pulses.

Its the issue with the johnson rods they trick the suspension into thinking its not in offroad mode when it is so jacks the car up when the car loses traction.

I think the LR3 suspension is acting up due to the lift rods.

Great comparison but id like to see them do more hard core wheeling like has been done with ram rebel and the VW!

A WJ jeep vs disco? Would a Jeep be easier or cheaper to live with?

Could the reason the suspension on the LR3 was freaking out is because the rods that were put in so a bigger tie could be installed? You mentioned this in the other video.

Since the lrd3 has got a sophisticated traction controller ,it makes sense if the Lrd 2 to have a set of off-road wheels !

My landrover 90 from 1983 with 219,000 miles on it has never broken down, and would make it up that hill easier than either of the disco's. A good well maintained 200tdi engine is hard to beat.

The LR3 would perform much better at normal lift height. Extended lift height only needs to be used where clearance is critical. Raised ride height defaults to extended in extremes, so I would have left it on normal ride height on that hill and not use rock-crawl mode.

Great vid guys , for me I spend most of my time on road so the LR3 wins hands down ,👍

Just for future reference you can change the hill decent control speed in both vehicles by using the cruise control buttons. The best LR3 is a stock vehicle with quality tyres on it. Messing around with lift rods is a bad idea. Also what id say is you were on loose gravel not crawling on rocks so I think it should have been on grass/gravel/snow and DSC turned off. Still love both vehicles though!