Can You Survive Mass Effect 2 Without Doing Any Loyalty Missions? 

best comment

yeah but he would have saved everyone then...

True! The Salarians, especially Kirrahe, are badasses. Even Mordin, who cracks me up.

I wish Reagor was a recruitable character.

@@faitheffect254 Likewise. At least I talk him out of fighting the Colossus. Reagor and Mordin are my fave chars. Both are super nice, yet badasses.

i would have loved it if jack called shepard a asshole before being lifted off by the swarm of seekers.

She can't, though. Vanguard. That's not her strength; they push powers out, not hold them. Miranda's an idiot here; it's a huge energy expenditure to hold that Barrier. Samara or a Sentinel PC are really the only two who could be expected to do it. I love how Bioware set up a power set in PC creation and then basically ignored it during this mission, but their treatment of biotic powers is iffy.

@@christineherrmann205 I had Jack as my barrier specialist in my first playthrough. Everyone survived.

@@maartentops1703 oh, I know the game allows it, but it doesn't make a lot of sense that Subject Zero, a Vanguard, suddenly has Barrier for this mission. And whether or not she's loyal makes the difference. Or that Samara would EVER _not_ be able to hold that Barrier as an Asari Justicar. The game is all over the place in terms of biotics making sense.

@@christineherrmann205 I always rationalize Jack being a Vanguard (because canonically she's one of the most powerful Biotics alive) as her just *enjoying* shooting people too

Says Miranda, the genetically perfect bitch with some incredible biotic yet still manages to get someone killed -_-

In theory, yes, any biotic capable of generating a barrier could do it. In practice, the strain is too much for all but the best of the best. Technically not an incorrect sentence, just naïve and misguided.

@@jedimasterpickle3 Came here to make this comment.

@@jedimasterpickle3 it's not even that misguided. They only falter at the very end.

@@stofsk Fair, but given the stakes and the threat they're up against, why take anything but the best of the best for a given role? Same thing applies for the vents, earlier. Anyone with an Onmi-Tool could do the job, but there are people better at it than others. A mission they don't expect to come back from isn't really the time for "theoretically".

Her last words: DAMNIT SHEPARD!

That's what asari are for 🤷‍♂️

Surely - in universe - Shepard could take TWO Biotic Specialists (one in the squad, one as the actual task) so that, for example, Samara/Morinth could strengthen the shield or outright take over when Miranda got too weak to continue effectively. I'm guessing the main reason why it wouldn't work was because of how much time it would take to generate a secondary barrier.

​@@Jedi_Spartan_38 I always did that just as an RP thing. Bring a Biotic companion who could help out if they needed it

She would’ve failed anyway because she is not loyal.

I wish that Kirrahe was a possible squad mate. Would have been really cool.

Definitely a missed opportunity not having him in 3. Would have been great if he joined your squad after priority sur’kesh

I wish

@@commandershepard5450 yeah would have been an easy enough way to include him lore wise. And one more squadmate would have remedied the complaints about lacking squadmates in 3 a bit. Also Kirrahe is a hilarious badass and in my top 5 characters in the series. No 1 being shared by my queen Tali and my bro Garrus. Yeah, I simp for Tali, not even sorry about that.

I'm just disappointed we never got a volus or batarian squadmate. ME2 would have been an excellent place to add a Batarian, and could have made the destruction of the mass relay mission so much more impactful

Shameless Pay to Win by Big Dan

That's incorect. As long as you got Grunt and Garrus + X holding off the enemies, Shepard survives. Jacob dies as tech expert, Jack or mordin gets killed by the seeker, Samara dies while escorting the crew. Grunt + Garrus + Legion + Tali are hoding the line, while Mordin/Jack + thane kill the Boss. maybe you can ensure Tali's survival by picking Legion for the final Boss fight, and letting Mordin eat the bullet for Tali, while Garrus +Grunt always survive. The real kick to the gut is the fact that all non-loyal non DLC squadmates aside from Garrus are going to die in ME3. While other Suqadmates like Tali, Samara and Jack may survive ME3, but still die in the suicide mission.

I think it is still possible. If you sacrifice the right people. Look how many survivors he had. You need only 2 and survivors to get through. No ship upgrades or loyalty of anyone + have DLC: - Thane, Jack and Kasumi die due to no upgrades - Mordin dies as a tech specialist (Mordin tech, Jacob fire) - Legion dies due to Samara's non-loyality (Samara shield, Legion and Jacob squad + Miranda fire) - Tali dies during escort - Jacob and Samara die during the final boss due to non-loyality BUT Miranda, Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed, Shepard and crew lives If you have no upgrades AND dont have DLCs: - Jack, Thane and Legion die due to no ship upgrades (Garrus and Grunt Squad) - Mordin dies due to being a poor choice (Mordin tech, Jacob fire) - Garrus dies due to Samara being unable to maintain the shield (Samara shield, Miranda fire, Garrus and Jacob squad) - Miranda and Samara die because they are not loyal during the final boss (Miranda and Samara squad while others hold the line) BUT Grunt and Jacob live => Shepard lives and crew lives as well If you recruit everyone even if you dont have the DLC, its still possible do survive without any loyality. Yes, it is very bloody BUT possible.

*Kasumi 💗

@@empressink_ shoot. Sorry about the typo

Jacob. It adds some weight and Jacob's appearance in me3 is really REALLY minor. If you really wanna push it, I'd say letting Zaeed die also works.

Letting Jacob die is the only viable option.

I just shove Jacob in the vents, and if I have morinth, I use her as fire squad leader, so she can die heroically. Gives at least some stakes, but no absolutely amazing characters die.

Choose Jacob. he volunteered :D

Jacob lmao

That’s what a good shepherd is supposed to do. No one left behind.

@@robbrown3941 Apart from Jacob...

Morrden can’t cure the Genophage lol

just go for a max genocide without reapers run. genophage gets sabotaged, save the spectre in that one side quest instead of the drell and hanar, save the get over the quarians, and then choose destroy

@@Jedi_Spartan_38 Mass Effect 1 - leave Ashley behind. Mass Effect 2 - get Jacob killed. Mass Effect 3 - shoot Kaiden. Shepard can die happy.

Ensign Prangley steps up to be the Grissom Academy leader in Jack's absence. This world state also has a unique conversation with Ensign Rodriguez where she talks to Shepard about whether you ever forget the first time you kill someone.

Which is bs because he does exact same thing as Jack BUT Jack has plot armor and Cerberus forces are Stormtroopers that miss meanwhile Ensign Prangley gets shot because not saving Jack gives the Cerberus troopers an accuracy buff appearantly.

Nope she got grinded up right when I got there.

Lol all the guys except Mordin survived! Romanceable lads win in the end haha

Welllll mornith is still alive & killing people on omega as Shepard never went with Samara & stopped her 🤷

If he and Tali die, restart your game.

And Grunt, don’t forget your child

He also dies in ME3 if you do his sidequest when he's not loyal. Same with Grunt and Kasumi although it's deliberately ambiguous in Kasumi's case.

@@AceofShadow kas will respond and reveal herself when the salarian leaves at the end of the mission. If she doesn't, yep she's dead.

@@aquilleswinkler5051 To be quite fair, gaining their loyality is gaining their trust and maybe friendship. The reason Kasumi revealed herself was because she trusted Shepard enough to come back so to speak. Otherwise it might just have been her taking the easy escape.

Wait is it possible to come out with just Zaeed and 1 loyal character and then kill him in his loyalty mission?

@@sootythunder3111 You can't leave zaeed behind if you only have 2 squadmates left, because you wouldn't be able to complete anything after because you only have one squadmate

Bruh my first playthrough Grunt died like this because I chose Miranda as the barrier specialist, and the whole time I was wondering how tf are they carrying him?🤣🤣

I thought that was the usual way to approach this

That's so easy though, just speed run the game and choose all the worst people.

​@@Jedi_Spartan_38 No, it's harder than it sounds. Harder than doing everything correctly imo. Doing badly? That's easy. Killing all but 2 squadmates in ME2? Also easy. We're talking about maximizing death and pain overall. The sooner and more awful the better. This means killing the rachni queen, ignoring Bring Down the Sky, killing the colonists on Feros, killing Gianna Parasini and her "boss" on Noveria and then shaking down Lorik Qui'in, beating that one guy up in the start mission, get Conrad Verner killed, sparing Rana Thanoptis, letting Kirrahe and the STG team die, and so much more. And this is just the major quests in the first game. Lots more pain to inflict in the side quests and the next two games. Some choices you have to deliberately plot out to inflict as much pain as possible. Ie: talking down Wrex in the first game, then destroying Maelon's data, then sabotaging the genophage and killing Wrex so that the Krogan are left with no leaders and no future. Ignore the mission to defuse the Turian bomb on Tuchanka for good measure. Oh, and release the reaper-controlled Rachni queen. Then, top it off by choosing the refuse ending (or vaporization Destroy ending if that's your style) and you have a genocidal maniac Shepard. I wanna plot this out now.

@@gianni50725 Oh, I thought you were referring to Mass Effect 2 only.

XLetalis did a video on this back in May, on how to kill everyone including Shepard. People are right when they say you have to put some effort into killing off everyone.

@@Bateluer Although I saw a playthrough of ME2 where everyone except Miranda died (although I don't think the guy recruited everyone).

"We are... Distracted. Old Machines are rewriting us because we did not complete our Loyalty Runtime. You may suck this platform's external genetalia unit, Shepard-Commander."

I thought Legion could open a door as an advanced AI with over 1000 runtimes running on that mobile platform. I also thought Thane as a master assassin could sneak through some vents. Doh!

I believe you can get away with only having to do 4 loyalty missions: Garrus (fireteam leader), Samara (Biotic), Legion (Tech specialist) and Mordin to send back with the crew. As long as you take Tali and Kasumi when facing off against the human reaper you should have enough defense wise.

@@chrisxd146 There's no minimum, if you didn't do the loyalty mission for a crew mate they will die.

@@Mod3rn0ccult1st they have a higher chance of dying and a no doubt death if used as a specialist, Maranda excluded as fire team leader. She also survives as specialist even when not loyal.

My second run in ME legendary edition i do only loyalty mission for garrus, tali, mordin, thane and legion because for me are the most important characters for the sequel. Only die jack in the final mission.

@@DomeBucciarati I’m impressed, I’m gonna try to get legendary edition hopefully soon but I loved the suicide mission as a concept.

This number can change though. The Collector abduction took place for me after doing just 2 missions post Reaper IFF install.

@@faded1to3black No that is another mission. That always happens after one other mission. What he means is the mission in which you enter the Collector Ship and find out that the Collectors are originally Protheans.

@@faded1to3black the number of missions between getting the Reaper IFF and having the Collector ambush is determined roughly by how many missions you did between the Collector Ship and gaining the Reaper IFF. If you went straight for the Reaper IFF, you will be able to do a couple more missions compared to if you did a lot of missions before getting the Reaper IFF. If you do a lot of missions before doing the Reaper IFF, you'll probably only be able to do one mission, which ideally should be Legion's Loyalty Mission, as he will offer it to you right away after talking to him. I imagine if you've done literally every other mission in the game other than Legion's Loyalty Mission, going on his mission may trigger the attack immediately. Then again, you have to select a squad to visit hub worlds like Tuchanka or the Citadel. So perhaps you have the leeway of Legion's Loyalty Mission and then visiting another hub world will trigger the Collector ambush.

That's a very good observation. I really felt bad for Jenkins character arc. If he had seriously injured but survived the Eden prime mission but became unable as a squadmate, later he provided some non-combat help to Shepard, again appeared in ME2 to do more support and his backstory was given somewhat more attention, then he died in ME3 along with that Kid while Shepard was leaving Earth. I think this would have given him a proper character arc.

He went out like a punk. Just walked into and open field and got toasted. A minor mis-step int he grand scheme of things, but it would have been a great opportunity to set the tone of the game by having Shepherd make a decision, give him an order that leads to his death. Then it makes the death carry weight. And makes it like "boom, my choices have consequences".

It is a good observation. I'm gonna pretend from now on that I saved Jenkins little brother from calamity. Redemption.

Minus Mordin 😢

I don't think so. The level of gameplay difficulty doesn't affect the story outcome. But still i would suggest to do all the loyalty missions before derelict Reaper, then talk to Legion after doing that mission to start his own loyalty mission, finish his mission, and then you're ready for the collector base. (PS-- Also make sure to do the ship upgrades and quell the squadmate conflicts. )

Yes you can finish any loyalty missions after the ending as long as they survive

No man left behind sir!

"Suicide Mission" applies to the Collectors, good sir. 😉

May it's just coincidental or intentional or i don't know.

Mordin also died :-P

@@Arijit_Das_ He focused mainly on those with a low "hold the line" score, so largely intentional. Except Miranda and Samara.

Ngl that was lowkey my first playthrough end, all the women died and all the guys survived. Not sure how i pulled that off but yea lol

I made that mistake recently.

when i first finished me2, mordin died. to which, i was like, i mean, he did make a new genophage strain so eh. Tali died in that save too. I started playing through me3 and got to the would-be tali recruitment and i couldnt do it and re-did the suicide mission and beginning of me3 lol

You must do at least 4 for Garrus, Samara, Tali and Mordin mandatory and 3 for any additional to hold the line. f.e. Jacob, Thane and Jack. You pick up Tali and Garrus for the first one, then Samara and Garrus for the second one sending Mordin with the crew and for the final one you bring Tali and Jack with you. Average for holding the line will be 4(Loyal Garrus)+3(Grunt)+3(Zaeed), +1(Miranda)+2(Loyal Jacob)+2(Loyal Thane)+2(Loyal Samara)+1(Legion), +0(Kasumi) = 18 / 9 equals 2.0 which means everyone will survive. Funniest thing is, if you never recruit Kasumi, you can do 2 less loyalty missions. So that will be the same 1. Garrus/Tali then 2. Samara/Garrus/Mordin and for the final you pick Jack and Tali. Remaining hold the line score is 4(Loyal Garrus)+3(Grunt)+3(Zaeed), +1(Miranda)+1(Jacob)+1(Thane)+2(Loyal Samara)+1(Legion)=16/8 equals 2.0 which means everyone will survive. That leaves us at 5 loyal missions for the crew without Kasumi (you can recruit her after anyway).

No, even if it was Jack doing the barrier, it would have failed because she wasn’t loyal

@@joeywild2011 I think what they mean is that, outside of game mechanics, Jack should probably have just put her barrier up when Jacob's failed and everyone would have survived the walk. Jacob's barrier laster a good ten minutes; Jack's could have held for a few more seconds.

I would think most sections would be doable without it but it would be a major pain in the ass. You would definitely need it to reach the Conduit at the end of the Ilos mission though since that section has a timer. You'd never make it there in time on foot.

I think you just can't cure the Genophage, no matter what the Shroud explodes, Eve dies from the research into the cure and the cure doesn't perform viably

I believe the only change is you can choose to leave Zaeed to die if you take the paragon route in his mission.

My very first playthrough disloyal Thane died in the life support control room when they go through the Omega 4 relay and got blasted by the beam cannon...

I guess its 3. Loyal tech expert + Loyal leader at the first chioses. Loyal biotic expert + Miranda at the second chioses. You send back a loyal member with the civil crew, so you need a 3rd loyal with you at the final boss. Probably you will have enough strength for the holding team due no body died, but i'm not sure.

So maybe the best chioce is Jack, Tali, and maybe Jacob/Miranda? But with this, maybe Mordin dies, so you may need a 4th loyal.

Worst case scenario is that Joker and EDI are the only survivors of the Normandy SR-2. Every squadmate dies, Shepard dies, and the rest of the crew die if you don't provide them an escort. Yeah the Reaper War ain't gonna be won in that timeline.

Let's have a think about it. To have the Technician survive the first segment, both the Technician and Fire Team Leader must be Loyal and appropriate. That's 2. To have the Normandy Crew and their Escort survive, the Escort must be Loyal. Add one for a total of 3. If Miranda is the Fire Team Leader for the second phase, she will survive even if she's not Loyal. For the Barrier Specialist, they must be Loyal and appropriate, so that's 4. Now it gets tricky. Your squadmates that you take to the final encounter will die if they are not Loyal. You have a choice between your first Fire Team Leader, your Technician and your Barrier Specialist. Deaths at the 'hold the line' work via a points system as Big Dan showed. If the total number of 'hold the line points' is too low, then squad members will die is a preset order determined by who is present, with the lowest tiers (Mordin, Jack, Tali, Kasumi etc) being among the first. But if your big hitters are Loyal, they can bump up the score enough so that nobody dies. With the scenario shown in this video, only Miranda died, although there were no 0 point people present. Kasumi died in the first segment, Jack died in the second segment, Tali died as the escort, and Mordin was taken to the final encounter. Chances are they would have died if present and holding the line as they are all worth zero points when not Loyal. So we're currently at 4 Loyals. If we made our Technician Tali or Kasumi, our Escort is Mordin and Barrier Specialist Jack, we can take Tali/Kasumi and Jack for our final squad and they will live. At this point it's down to the maths behind holding the line. I'd wager having Grunt and Zaeed Loyal would be the best shot at keeping people alive as they would bump up the score the most. So my guess is that it's between 4 and 6 to have zero causalities.

I might try that in the future I imagine. Getting at least jack or Samras loyalty for the barrier. tali, Kasumi, or legions for the vent and Garrus or Miranda for team leader. Just my thoughts.

Actually, just did some math out of curiosity. I think you’d need a minimum of 7 of the 12 loyalty missions done. You should be able to skip 5. Make either Tali or Kasumi the vent specialist and have them be loyal. Make your first fireteam leader (Miranda/Garrus/Jacob) loyal. The biotic specialist should be a loyal Jack. The second fireteam leader should be Miranda because she can do that role well regardless of loyalty. For your escort and the crew you take with you to the final boss, use Jack, your vent specialist, and one of the other squishy characters (but make that last squishy character loyal too). At that point you should have 9 people holding the line, which means you need 18 hold the line points. By using 3 squishy characters for escort/boss duties, the remaining people should add up to 14, but one of them is your loyal first fireteam leader, so their loyalty adds one point. So you have 15/18 required. 3 more people need loyalty to get to 18.

The answer is 4, and I got you one better; least crew recruited. At the start we get Miranda and Jacob, and to progress through the game we need to recruit Mordin, Jack, Okeer and Arcángel. That gives us 5 since Okeer is a no go and grunt is optional to wake up. Last we need Tali for Thirst/Tech/Normandy Upgrade. So... Our crew is Tali, Garrus, Jack, Mordin, Cerberus Cheerleader and Jacob. We do Tali’s Loyalty since we need her to not get shot in the face while on the door. Next we need either Garrus Miranda or Jacob’s Loyalty for the Distraction team and so Tali doesn’t get shot fixing the door. So after getting Garrus’s Loyalty, we get Jack’s so the bugs don’t eat us (it should be noted that we can’t actually get their Loyalty in this order since Tali and Garrus Loyalty missions unlock later than the rest of the crew) Lastly we get Mordin’s Loyalty and get the Reaper IFF without awakening Legion. Now onto the “Suicide” Mission. First we assign Tali to hack the Door and Garrus to lead the distraction team. After that, we assign Jack to the biotic field and Miranda/Garrus to the second distraction Team and send Either Mordin or Tali back with the Normandy Staff. Home Stretch now HOLD THE LINE. According to the general consensus, the door is defended by averages. An average of 2 to be precise, if the effective combat strength of your team is less then the weakest die until it goes to an average of 2 or everyone dies. So basically: a Disloyal Tali worth 0 points (1 if Loyal) and a Loyal Garrus worth 4 points, (3 if disloyal) can successfully hold the door and live to tell the tale but if a stupid Cerberus cheerleader or cheating bastard with Daddy issues was there (worth 1 point each if disloyal 2 if loyal) Tali would die and then Garrus and Jacob would live. Since anyone Disloyal dies at the final battle, we take Jack (for warp ammo) and Tali/Mordin while Garrus 4, Jacob 1 and Miranda 1, Defend the door with an average of 2 in combat strength. In the end we blow the collector base up and live happily ever after. Except for Grunt and Legion who missed the Best fight of their lives cause Shepard was doing a minimal crew challenge. As an aside, Grunt and Legion can be awaken no problem since Grunt 3 and Legion 1 average 2 as well. Same with Zaeed 3 and Samara/Thane both worth 1. But if you want to bring everyone, you would need to compensate for Kasumi 0 and Samara/ Thane 1 so that it averages to 2. TL:DR For a minimum crew Play-through you need 4 Loyalty missions. For a full No DLC crew you need 6 And for a Full 12 man Crew you need 7 Funny how that works no?