Catch Wrestler Anthony Pacheck of Hard Drive MMA takes on BJJ Black Belt Jerrod Appenzeller during the quarter-finals of the Men's Advanced No-Gi Absolute at the Sub Spectrum Summer Showdown on August 14th, 2021.
I'm a Catch Wrestler, and I roll with 10th Planet Guys. In my personal opinion, it is one of the best grappling systems up there with Erik Paulson's CSW.
@@subspectrumbjj I trained at one very briefly when I was living in NYC. I love hybrid grappling styles like CSW and 10th Planet, they do really well at filling the holes their root styles have.
@@gaminghunt5837 CSW stands for Combat Submission Wrestling. It’s essentially just the name for Erik Paulson’s affiliation and the program he injects into his affiliate gyms.
Catch wrestling has always been an interesting art the older traditional bjj guys kinda saw it as a more primitive version of bjj but then you have a guy like Kazushi Sakuraba who was the gracie hunter and honestly outclassed them in a lot of way.
When it comes to self-defense, Catch Wrestling is far superior to BJJ. Regarding competition, generally the rule set is going to determine the winner. Most BJJ guys wouldn’t stand a chance against a Catch Wrestler under Catch Wrestling rules.
@@radiantmind8729 *When it comes to self-defense, Catch Wrestling is far superior to BJJ.* CACC is few in between in sub grappling competition and almost nonexistent in today's mma. As for the streets, you can find a handful of viral videos of BJJ instructors and students stopping common criminals, but CACC doesn't exist in the streets. Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. *Most BJJ guys wouldn’t stand a chance against a Catch Wrestler under Catch Wrestling rules.* No sh*t sherlock. BJJ isn't like freestyle/folkstyle wrestling where takedowns are the premium skill set. Freestyle/folkstyle wrestlers destroy any so called Catch wrestler who don't have any other prior wrestling style background. Curran Jacobs had a barely white belt level understanding of BJJ at best and he became champ using almost exclusively his folkstyle wrestling. If BJJ guys wanted to improve their wrestling, BJJ guys can be just as good if not superior to the average so called catch wrestler for takedowns. Watch ADCC and you can't honestly tell me the modern catch wrestler without the freestyle/folkstyle background could takedown the BJJ competitors in ADCC that easily.
Before Kazushi Sakuraba had defeated Gracie family, another catch wrestler Kazuo Takahashi had defeated Wallid Ismail (who choked Royce Gracie out unconscious), and even before that sambo expert Igor Zinoviev had submitted another BJJ Black belt Mario Sperry and sambo origins coming from catch wrestling. Way before that there were Rufino Dos Santos, Euclydes Hatem, Wladek Zbyzsko, some of catch wrestlers who had defeated BJJ Black belts from Gracie family, before Masahiko Kimura did so as well. And also catch wrestler Adolph Ernst known as Ad Santel had defeated Mitsuyo Maeda's students (the man who created BJJ)
Great match, great grappling, and I thoroughly enjoy watching different style matches. My only disappointment was BJJ immediately pulling guard. BJJ is my foundation, and it is a tool, but takedowns are too often neglected in BJJ.
Agree. Told my brother in law I'm doing Catch, BJJ, and Kickboxing. He just keeps telling me all I need BJJ. Like you said it's a "tool", too many people think it's the end all be all.
@@johnsonpink6002 thing is, All u need is a level of skill of about 2 months of BJJ training and ur waaaay ahead of AT LEAST 90% of the population, in ground fighting/grappling terms.
@@newagain9964 That’s not good enough for self defense. in a 1 vs 1 scenario is good but what if you have multiple attackers and you go to the ground? you’ll get beaten to a pulp. You can at least get some boxing training in cause in a heated fight all is revert back to punching it is primal.
I always enjoy the style vs style grappling matches. This was no exception so thank you for uploading. I have always been interested in catch wrestling (which kinda got me into the art of grappling in the first place) but, today, I am not entirely sure you can really tell the difference. There is another video of Anthony and you would assume he was the BJJ guy compared to his opponent. Grappling has evolved so much in my opinion. The "catch moves" exist at my BJJ gym (if anyone argues they are catch moves, of course) -- which is just a long comment of saying the styles have mixed even further. Thanks again.
Some people train traditionally not for competition but to enjoy the historicity of catch wrestling. There definitely still is a divide, most notably catch doesn't use the guard as much, but there has been massive overlap for decades.
I moved from that area about 4 years ago and at the time Anthony was a 4 striped blue belt. So I know he does have a significant amount of bjj training.
@@mattf9076 Yeah, no one who grapples seriously can be pure anything anymore. And even "pure" BJJ is so infused with basic wrestling principles and techniques that differences are a matter of semantics and marketing.
@@antman656 @John Doee Whether we both agree with this or not... the fact is catch wrestling slowly died while the Gracies (marketing strategies or not) managed to push their art to the masses. Before 1993 the only grappling the majority knew about was Aikido and Judo - and even Judo is washed down on it's former self. BJJ/GJJ, to this day, is somewhere you can go to do grappling with many people... and has a proven grading system. Where is Catch Wrestling? Since the 90's with Tony Cecchine (whatever your opinions are) - I can count many times when "catch will return" and.. eh.. no. You have people like Lou Thesz, Karl Gotch and Billy Robinson... and their students, while extremely talented, do not show as much "guard game" until after UFC and 'evolution' just a few years later... like Minoru Suzuki. Not implying catch did not have a 'guard' system (body scissor, etc) but is likely something that was slowly lost in time based on catch-as-catch-can pinning rules.. along with the rise of Freestyle Wrestling and Pro Wrestling.
1:21-1:25 in viewing this it just dawned me that in judo, freestyle and greco, a throw usually results in the grappler landing in a way so that he is set up for the his next move of offense be it the submission,pin, roll or follow up lift and throw and in BJJ immediately assuming the guard puts him on par with other grapplers has he is able to assume the next phase of offense plus it messes with other grapplers minds because it's not how they start a fight,nobody in there right mind willing starts a fight like that.upon this Realisation I think without doubt that if a BJJ grappler first Action is to pull guard then others should just stand because you're doing what you do so am I or if you are daring and want to be funny lie on your back also .
Im a big fan of wrestling, bjj, judo, and grappling in general. Im not a good practicioner but im a huge fan. My biggest issue with bjj is that there is no punishment for pulling guard. There should immediately be points given to the opponent when you pull guard.
A lot of comments about guard pulling (I'm assuming from low-level competitors/casuals)... I ran though one bracket already and needed the energy to run through this absolute bracket, also only had 6 minutes to work (can't waste time and energy if I know my guard is solid)... I'm a lifelong wrestler and love takedowns!
Respect for operating in a tactical manner, I think a lot of grapplers just don't like giving up position. In most grappling arts taking the other person down and being on top is the goal. So it bugs them when someone can't get the takedown.
With CACC the pool of fighters is insanely small vs BJJ. Like there's only 3 CACC guys I know that actually follow the principles. I know countless of BJJ dudes. Pacheck is a cool dude I was rooting for him. To
A shame that catch wrestling went down the route of scripted entertainment (WWE) instead of establishing itself as a legitimate grappling martial art. It's nice to see catch wrestling making a comeback though I don't think it will be on the same popularity level as BJJ.
Catch wrestling isn't coming back. A couple years ago, Curran Jacobs who was the CACC champion got submitted badly twice by Quentin who was an unranked 10th planet guy and SnakePit USA banned Quentin from competing against catch wrestlers with a fake legal document. And not too long after, Raul Ramirez a catch wrestling coach got submitted by a 10th planet blue belt in a tournament. CACC has a serious problem of con artists gatekeeping and selling sketchy grappling
@@michaelswann9849 There is still the original Snake Pit in Wigan, England and catch wrestling gyms scattered across USA and Japan. But no where near as close as BJJ gyms.
@@ballshippin3809 Snakepit Wigan is the only remaining legit Catch wrestling gym that's closer to folkstyle wrestling. The ones in Japan are prowrestling schools and USA ones are mainly run by conmen like Jake Shannon
Guard slams and slams out of a submission are not, but high amplitude takedowns are fair game. I’m all for slams but the current structure beneath the mats would not be safe to allow slams - possible they could be in the future.
@@subspectrumbjj Thank you for the response. I certainly hope this change is made, that would be exciting. I also greatly appreciate that high amplitude takedowns are supported as well!
People always mention Kazushi Sakuraba (rightfully so) when talking giving credit to catch wrestling over BJJ, but there was so much more. The dominance of BJJ in UFC (as well as MMA in whole) was over by 1995. UFC 4 was the last tournament that was won by BJJ specialist. The first champion (superfight) in UFC history was catch wrestler Ken Shamrock and members of his team like Guy Mezger, Jerry Bohlander, Mickey Burnett, Pete Williams were winning most of the events. Frank Shamrock who was also a catch wrestler was p4p number 1 fighter in the world, the first Light Heavyweight Champion in UFC history, had defended his title 5 times and remained undefeated at UFC. Maurice Smith had training in catch wrestling to defeat Mark Coleman. Bas Rutten who was also one of the best fighters in the world had catch wrestling as grappling base
BJJ is now Catch Wrestling. Even the Gracies will admit that Shooto and Japanese catch wrestling influenced their BJJ. Danaher's entire leglock system is derived from the Japanese shooters who were successful against the Brazilians early on via their leg locking prowess.
@@Flow1987 Joe Rogan Rickson interview. Rickson talks about his evolution with leg locks. This obviously predates Danaher. Shooto had an established reputation for leg locks. Also understand that Gracie BJJ back then frowned upon leg locks as lower class techniques. Gracies were known to practice classism as a prejudice in their teachings. Ivan Gomes was the one guy who taught to everyone and he also taught some NJPW guys including Satoru Sayama the founder of Shooto. Good chance Antonio Inoki influenced BJJ with Indian death locks. BJJ today is a hybrid from its experience against very good leg lockers like Sakuraba, and other Japanese. If Danaher will admit this is unknown.
As Josh Barnett stated: Catch is basically collegiate wrestling with submissions. Catch has a vastly superior standup grappling game compared to BJJ, which was likely why Jerrod cowardly pulled guard straight away to avoid getting ragdolled by Pacheck.
Meh, CACC's wrestling is superior to BJJ's wrestling but it can't really compete with Freestyle/American Folkstyle wrestling. Ive never seen CACC wrestlers without that rich wrestling background from schools do all that well in takedowns against other wrestlers
@@michaelswann9849 These CACC cultists are a laughing stock. Whenever BJJ scores a W, they come up with excuses like imaginary illegal street fighting, mma(which ironically CACC is almost nowhere to be found today since Pride FC), and keep bringing up Sakuraba to cope
Hard to compare these two games. They arent in a ruleset that favors a catch wrestler. There are no pins and takedowns are grossly nonexistent. They still have to grapple but its like asking which is better American Football or Rugby? They are different games what is there to compare?
It’s not about comparing, just provides context for the viewer and gives them a reason to watch the video. That’s what titles and thumbnails are for. Thanks for watching and dropping a comment!
Who is stronger a strongman or an arm wresstler. Let finds in an arm wresstling match. That is how it feels like when the bjj player do but scooting against another grappling art.
@@katokianimation bro its grappling. if you lay on top of me for 5 minutes and do nothing then sure you might of tired the other person out but youre not doing anything. bjj teaches how to finish fights and wrestling just helps you in fights. if a bjj guy is comfortable pulling guard and being on the bottom then why should a wrestler get credit for getting on top when thats what the bjj guy wanted. if you dont learn how to submit or knockout someone out then its not really an effective martial art
@@liverpoollfc1247 It depends on what game you're playing. If you're playing jiujitsu where there is no penalty to being in a bottom inferior position then there are no points or advantages awarded to the one on top. If you're playing most forms of wrestling then there are penalties to being in bottom inferior position. You lose. If you're not playing a game at all and it's actual combat, there is absolutely zero value in laying down in front of your attacker. It's absurd. People die or get hurt when they get dragged into a bottom position and can't get up.
@@liverpoollfc1247 catch wrestling is about finishing fights though.... that's my understanding of it. You find a limb and bend it where it's not supposed to go. Japanese fighters used to travel to Lancashire to train catch can a long time ago.
I wish that there would be some sort of overall grabbling rules other than BJJ rules and other grappling styles have to follow them. There wasn't even an attempt at wrestling from standup. The BJJ guy just went right to his back. I can't understand that.
Oh surprise, a BJJ that slam his butt on the mat 2 seconds into the match, boooooooo. Any serious competition must ban pulling guard, otherwise this is not grappling.
It is liturally struggling against another man who is holding you. Guard pulling is a valid option to take you opponent down if you know they are better wrestler then you. Even in real fighting. That said. But yeah this kind of guard pull should be banned. Competitions where slamming is legal and you have to keep a dominant grip from standing to guard pull are much serious and more interesting to watch. Watching somebody just sitting down or laying under somebody and waiting to be smashed for at least half of a minute is just such a bad start. Pull guard for leglocking, sweep them to the ground if you can't finish it. Do a sacrifice throw. Treat you sit up guard as it was kneeing for wrestling takedown. Shoot in try to take them down, and do a technical stand up if you fail. Fucking do some shit.
@@katokianimation Even in real fighting... sure, is the best way to get kicked in the head or get your legs stomped, you do not see that move out of BJJ competitions because it is retarded.
Fun to watch from an athletic perspective but total lack of realism where strikes are concerned. It's getting further and further away from the source.
They need to switch rules up to where if your allowed to just drop to your ass and pull guard than slams are legal also. Why compare two arts when the rules are only fair to the bjj user.
Fully Agree, I'm a BJJ practiconer and I'm glad BJJ came into my life, However I'm tired of Catch wrestlers always trashing BJJ. To be honest I incorperate a Dash of CACC in my BJJ game thanks to Josh Barnett, Erik Paulson, Sakuraba and Billy Robinson. I think both BJJ and CACC complement and flow with one another.
It's because BJJ came after wrestling first. The Gracies didn't allow top ranking amateur wrestlers into the UFC for the first few tournaments, because they knew it was the only other art that could give them a run for their money. After the UFC started allowing wrestlers in, BJJ practitioners started losing. Wrestling got the short end of the stick because the UFC was basically a BJJ promotion in the beginning. In a different universe an amateur wrestler won UFC 1 and Western wrestling is the top MMA grappling system. BJJ is so overtaught that I can't even find a wrestling gym near me, except pro wrestling, and that isn't practical if you're trying to grapple, whereas there's a dozen BJJ gyms near me. BJJ is a great art, but so is wrestling, and I'd love to see it get the appreciation it deserves.
Guard slams are not allowed in BJJ. In short the wrestler cant lift the BJJ kid and slam. BJJ works like magic in BJJ tournaments with BJJ rules. In MMA it does not work.
I wish there was a wrestling gym near me. Catch, shoot, freestyle I wouldn't care, but it seems to be a dying art. I'm going to be forced to learn BJJ because there's no good wrestling gyms around me. Just pro wrestling, and we all know how that is against real fighting styles because of CM Punk getting his booty pounded.
Name one catch wrestler who has won a no catch general grappling tournament in the last 10 years. I’ll wait. Oh yeah thats because you can’t. Catch is the latin of grappling. Useful at one point but people have moved on.
You don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. Modern submission wrestling (no gi) is basically Catch now with all of its wrestling, leg locks etc.. A far cry from what BJJ actually was not even 3 decades ago.
@@AgentKruger88 No YOU don't have an idea what you're talking about because BJJ has proven itself to be adaptable and able to evolve unlike catch or even sambo. OP is completely on point.
Catch Wrestling is Folk Wrestling with Submissions , But Wrestlers go into BJJ not catch , BJJ take away the wrestling style away , The a lot more wrestlers in bJJ without Gi ,
Yeh they have an extreme inferiority complex against BJJ esp the Gracies. They ignore matches outside of Sakuraba and sometimes Josh Barnett to skew CACC's success over BJJ
@Ante D the issue is that despite the claim that catch is superior, most matches outside of Sakuraba and Barnett have shown the BJJ person winning...oops!
Why not just try and figure out how to blend both. Take what works for you and let go of the rest. I’be been a BB since 2009 but fell in love with Catch techniques and Sambo techniques. Look at how Khabib manhandled all the BJJ players in MMA. Khabib doesn’t do as well in pure grappling tournaments himself, but shines in MMA. Each grappling system had it’s strengths and weakness. I personally don’t like the guard and like to play top game like Barnett and Khabib. I train with Cobrinha and his grappling game is excellent because he incorporates capoeira and wrestling. No need to bash other systems. Learn them all if you can and just take what works. Just have an open mind 👍🏽
Straight to laying down together. 🥱 yawn. Nothing practical here. But catch wrestling is pretty brutal and gets right to the point. Best grappling for self defense imo.
Nothing practical. It’s literally impossible that you would ever get taken down and have to defend yourself from your back.😂 Nothing practical in what is likely a catch/lute livre/shooto submission by nature, the heel hook, to almost break an opponent and make them submit.
