Tywin was more interested in maintaining his family's strength than actually raising well adjusted children and it cost him and House Lannister dearly.
but if you see it was only the lannister blood that would continue after the war at end of season8. Going by the conventional patriarchy model of carrying the surnames, starks all male heirs were dead except bran, who anyways mostly wouldn't marry. Jon Snow the last targarean went to guard the wall where they vow celibacy. No male heirs of greyjoys, tyrels, martells, baratheons. Only male heir remaining was Lysa Aron's son. Keeping that aside, it was only Tyrion a lanister still alive and can surely continue to marry and have heirs
@@philippeblais8594 you didnt get the point. I am not talking about ruling, I am talking about the family name. At some point Arryn would have kids and that surname would be of the father and not mother. Eg: Even Jofrey was a baratheon and not a lannister. It was sansa stark and not sansa arryn. The only exception would be the targareans who marry within their surname(bro-sis marry).
Her ending was quite peaceful for the monster she had become, dying quickly in the arms of the man who loved her. The poor people being burned alive and crushed in King's Landing suffered way more than Cersei! Actually very realistic... lol
Aye, the commoners, septons, merchants and soldiery had it FAR worse then Cercei did. But, to use her own words in this case: 'do you think she'dve cared?'
She didn’t deserve to die in the arms of anyone. And the destruction of Jaime’s character for “subversion of expectations” was entirely evil on the part of the two clowns directing the shit-show that was the later series .
Idk why but the part where Cersei says "I want to know where they are" and the little box pops up saying "Cersei Lannister wants to Know your location (Allow) (Block)" is just so funny to me lol
@@Chernobyl_Reactor4 How was it ironic of him to say that? Tyrion does praise her for the few positive qualities she does have. He recognizes her genuine love for her children and tries to help her son despite how awful he is. Cersei also treats Tyrion like dogshit throughout the show but he still keeps it professional with her and doesn’t insult her the way she does to him.
@@Chernobyl_Reactor4 How does Tyrion deserve the way he was treated in the show? I get that in the books he did some terrible things but show Tyrion was frequently shown to be a genuinely good person. Him shipping off Myrcella was questionable but he didn’t do it with any malicious intent and was trying to protect her (he thought she would be safer in Dorne than King’s Landing which makes sense) as well as to use her to form a peaceful alliance with another house. He was the ONLY person in his house who actually cared about Sansa’s well being (Cersei was clearly happy when Tywin tried to force Tyrion to rape Sansa lmao) and didn’t abuse or mistreat her when he easily could have. He also saved Catelyn’s life when he had no reason to and could have easily left her to die. I don’t understand what your problem is with Tyrion.
@@Chernobyl_Reactor4 Ok, there’s a lot to unpack here. i’m going to go through each of your many ridiculous views on Tyrion and debunk them “Shipping off Myrcella was absolutely evil and there’s no redemption for that”. I don’t know how you could call this “evil”. Tyrion had no reason to believe that Dorne would be unsafe for Myrcella. At that point, Tyrion did not know about the background regarding Elia’s rape. He was also trying to use Myrcella to form a peaceful alliance with another house and get her away from King’s Landing (an area full of traitors and backstabbers that could easily have her killed). Sure, shipping her off behind Cersei’s back was immoral but let’s not pretend like Cersei hasn’t done far worse things to Tyrion (like literally trying to have him killed multiple times). Also, I don’t know why you act like Trystane was some abusive asshole (you actually had the audacity to say death was better for Myrcella than Marrying Trystane) when he was a good person and would have treated Myrcella better than almost all of her other suitors. “A good person? One of the first scenes is him in a brothel. Courtesans who thought they would be working in a factory, girls from farming villages who were sold by their parents.” So? It’s not like Tyrion abused the girls in the brothel. He had sex with them, which you could say is a bit immoral but it is never implied in the TV show that he was unkind to them. I don’t know how this makes him a bad person. You also bring up Tyrion mocking Theon as if Cersei doesn’t mock EVERYONE she meets who isn’t highborne.
@@Chernobyl_Reactor4 "I love how Tyrion acts like he had a difficult life when he doesn't do anything to benefit his House and lives a better life than 99% of people." This is just straight up WRONG. Tyrion has lived an AWFUL life and has every right to complain about it. His father literally forced him to watch his first wife be gang raped and then forced him to rape her as well! He has also been constantly told by his family that "he shouldn't have been born", "he's a disease", and that "he's a monster" among many other horrible things. His father also repeatedly told him that he was thinking of killing him when he was an infant! Just because he is a lord born into a rich family doesn't mean he's lived a good life Imao. In regards to him not contributing to his house, I don't know how you could come to this conclusion when you consider that he literally won the Battle of Blackwater Bay and saved Casterly Rock! That's a pretty damn big contribution if you ask me! And while he was winning the battle, his sister and nephew were plotting behind his back to have him killed and he got zero gratitude from his father after single handedly saving his father’s city! "Then his temper tantrum in court. Killing Tywin and Shae when he could have escaped. Shae, the woman he abused." Yet another statement that is blatantly misleading and false. Tyrion did not abuse Shae. His relationship with Shae was actually one of the few healthy relationships we see in the show. Both Shae and Tyrion genuinely cared for one another and looked out for each other. Tyrion literally tried to save her by sending her away from King’s Landing so that Tywin wouldn’t kill her. His outburst in court was due to Shae breaking his trust and helping his family in their attempt to have him killed. He had every right to be furious with Shae for that. He also didn’t want to kill Shae. She attacked him first and he did it in self defense.
@@Chernobyl_Reactor4 I can’t help but feel you have a personal bias against Tyrion. You call him a “mutant” and say he abuses women when he is literally one of the ONLY male characters in the show (besides the Starks) who doesn’t abuse women lmao! As I mentioned in a previous comment, Tyrion could have easily raped and mistreated Sansa and Shae during their time with him but he never did! He was the ONLY person in King’s Landing who cared about Sansa and tried to make her life better. He also treated Shae with care and did everything he could to protect her. If you want to be angry at a character for Abusing women, be angry at Tywin who had is son’s wife gang raped in front of him!
Everyone is a horrible person in the show. People just target Cersei because they rolled a dice. There can be ‘diabolical’ compilations for any character in this show. Who doesn’t love her character? She is the perfect character.
@@maxwestland8713 Hyperbole my dude. Let me correct it, 99% of people in this show are awful people. The fact that the good guys inadvertently caused more chaos by trying to do good makes them just as bad in a way because their good only lead to more evil and injustice. Ned is also not as good as people think, he allows Jon to join the Night’s Watch when Winterfell is absolutely massive, he could just have gotten Jon a small house if Cat really didn’t want him there, better yet, don’t allow Cat to chase him away since he is literally in charge. Aemon is just some dude who didn’t want the Throne. Sam is just some fat dude who becomes a Maester.
@@Chernobyl_Reactor4 hahaha bro you strike me as bit of a sociopath. I get what you’re saying but I think you’re confusing horrible with stupid. Ned was only ever trying to do good but he was a dumbass. At the end of the day the horrible people caused all the bad shit from being twats in the first place. There’s honour in the nights watch Jon wanted to go with his uncle Benj to make a name for his bastard self and Ned was cool with that. I think theres more to Aemon and Sam than just some dude and some fat dude. Do you actually listen to the shit that they say or read about their pasts?
@@Chernobyl_Reactor4I don’t think it’s much of a hot take to say the bad people in the show caused A LOT more chaos than the good people. Robb and Ned Stark as well as Jon Snow came close to achieving peace multiple times. It was the actions of evil people like the Lannisters, Roose Bolton, and Alliser Thorne that prevented peace from happening throughout the show. Also Ned sending Jon the Night’s watch was not a kind thing to do. But it doesn’t AT ALL compare to the gruesome torture, psychological abuse, and war crimes of truly bad people like Cersei and Tywin. Ned was an honourable and capable man. He would have achieved peace if not for Cersei wanting to defend her freaky incest relationship with Jaime that lead to Ned’s execution.
Cersei is truly one of the most polarizing characters: stupid, childish, yet domineering and demanding. She will kill your child but be offended if you do the same. She will say your needs mean nothing while everyone is expected to cater to her sudden problems. She resents her duties just as much as she would do anything to keep her title as a queen. Even her own children, whom she swears she loves equally, are still pawns. She got off easy when her death came. She faced no absolution. She was even comforted in her death.
@@mahararcher have you even watched this show?) Tywin is the smartest strategist, Cersei is not a strategist at all. She only cares about herself and her family. She doesn't care about other people, even the lands. She is a terrible ruler and a terrible adviser. This becomes clear when you watch the show with your eyes open. By the way, Tywin was never wrong, Cersei was wrong every fucking time. And how do you think she could help win the war if she started it herself?
@@11ll0l yes I have. You have your opinion i have mine. No need to be condescending. Tywin was so smart he get killed by his own son where Cersei always told him to get rid of Tyrion…
@@mahararcher jeez, it's not about opinion, it's about whether it's true or not. You just can't understand the character's imagery system, which is as clear as water. And that's ok, as long as you don't get into an argument with your stupid and easily refuted opinion
Because Eleria killed her daughter the same way, with poison and a kiss. I believe the idea was she would do the same to her, but worse, being that she would watch her die infront of her and watch her rot.
I don't agree Elaria deserved this nasty death before Cersei would. Yes, Myrcela was innocent, but, while she was like a hostage in Dorne, Cersei didn't hesitate to be very hostile with Oberyn and Elaria when they just came to attend the wedding. Cersei was living for just turning everyone into enemies all around, even when she didn't have a reason to.
It's so funny to me how the show took one of the kindest characters in the books and turned her into polar opposite. Elleria happens to be one of the most empathetic characters in the books. And she is also wise enough to separate vengeance from justice. In fact, she is the one who objected when Sand Snakes intended to kill every each Lannister. Because Elleria knows that revenge is not the solution, it's merely a cycle and only brings more pain...
@@yafayafa9601I would also be rude. They are family of the man who essentially kidnapped Myrcella to use her as a hostage and broodmare. And remember that everyone hates the Dornish, there are literally jokes about hating Dornish. The Dornish are hated in The Seven Kingdoms. And remember that Myrcella was not even allowed to visit for the wedding. Myrcella essentially developed Stockholm syndrome as well. She went five years without seeing her family, conversing with them, she was in no position to refuse Trystane’s advances.
@@Chernobyl_Reactor4 Yes, i think u might be right. But Trystane was innocent himself tho. And his father was a kind man. In the book, Ellaria doesn't kill Myrcella. Myrcella becomes the queen of Dorne and she opposes Cersei's murderous behaviour. For the tv show, if i wanted a more merciful death for Ellaria, it was ONLY because she wasn't a worse person than Cersei was. Still, Ellaria should have killed Cersei, not Myrcella.
If being diabolical and evil and the audacity of not even acknowledging she is evil had a face that's Cersei Lannister,no other character was this much delusional like her even considering that littlefinger
@@mahararcher I get why you might think that, but you have to keep in mind that we're reminded several times in the books about horrible things Cersei did (even as a child). Pinching her little brothers cock after he had just been born, and getting that servant girl beaten up spring to mind.
She could have owned the Game if Tywin had bothered to teach her how to rule. But that's not the hand she was dealt, and she's too bitter to use that hand to its full potential. She's not wrong about misogyny unfairly holding her back. She's just too arrogant to realise that she's also holding _herself_ back. Notably, she's the Queen Regent during Joffrey's reign, meaning she actually _outranks_ him and is the most powerful person in the Seven Kingdoms (besides Tywin,) but she never actually uses that authority to stop Joffrey from doing something stupid. Either Tywin taught her so little that she honestly doesn't realise that she holds all the power until he's of age, or she's so bitter and arrogant that she refuses to accept anything less than being Queen Regnant (ruling in her own right.) Either way, it can be traced back to how misogyny's shaped her life, but shows a complete unwillingness to work with what she's given to get what she wants in her own way.
I’m reading the books and there’s a part where Tyrion questions whether she changed her bed after Robert died in it and she tells him that she kept the bed because it gives her sweet dream
This is probably an unpopular opinion. But my point is. Poor English. And it suddenly turned out to be an essay. Why didn't the Eddard Stark keep his silence? Because Jaime, the tower and his son. (did he know about it? or guessed?) This one is clear, it's revenge, and perfectly understandable. And Jon Aren - I can tell you that things are gray, globally, I mean. He was like a father to him, so yes But if it weren't for those things, I think silence would be more appropriate (and his daughters wouldn't be hurt) Cersei cheated on Robert with her brother. So? Things are done. Her three children are already heirs. The country's at peace. Who cares who is on the throne when there is peace and people don't die. Besides her "bastards" are not guilty of anything, Joffrey is bad, Tommen and Myrcella are not - they are children. And Tywin Lannister said (book) about Joffrey that he is still 13 years old and can be influenced, he saw that the boy is awful (well or really poison, Tomenn ok) Robert never loved Cersei, she tried to love him, but it ended on their wedding night "Lyanna" literally. She could forgive him and help him and be very sacrificial. Then maybe it wouldn't have been all not bad, even good. Cersei not sacrificial. By telling the truth to Robert, honorable Eddard Stark doomed her family to death, including Tommen and Myrcella. That's what Jon Ahren was trying to do. Imagine. First you're a sweet little prince\princess. And then you're an incestuous bastard who's reviled by the whole kingdom. There's no mercy in that. Killing those who would do such a thing to your children is an understandable thing. If you consider the story on Cersei's behalf - she often killed and did evil things when she could have been hurt or her children. Still, she's cruel, that's true. Sansa's wolf moment really is. It's evil and cruel, she had a twisted reason for it, her son got hurt. Killing a guilty wolf - could have been a really understood thing. But no - this scene shows that her heart is cruel. The kindness would be to forgive it. It's interesting what such cruelty sometimes protects. Imagine if she loved Sansa's grandson and loved Sansa herself. And someone would want to kill her sweet "daughter in law's" wolf and the grandson would be crying. It would be a lion's roar. It wouldn't have happened. She had a clear distinction - "my family" and "no." Tyrion is no. Pretty sure if Tywin loved Tyrion, he'd treat him well, too. Because she respected her father. Her scales of right and wrong bend as they will, she has no wisdom. Patience, she can't compromise when necessary. Tywin understood that. Catelyn Stark was horrible to Jon, and Sansa copied her attitude. But should we blame them too? Dark Medieval Things Like This. Cersei is more evil one, but that doesn't mean there's nothing genuinely good about her at all. That doesn't mean it can't be loved and dealt with in a true positive way without being told a thousand times how wrong\bad she is. Characters are Complex - whether they are "evil" or "good". I'm not from the fandom. And I don't read much on GOT, only watched the series very closely, years ago and read a few moments in the books. I never hated her much. I tried to understand her and empathized when things were cruel. And if the fandom stong hates a character like Cersei, it's just superficially. The energy of support for those who like Cersei is here. This is All Good. Characters like Cersei are created for thought, to think from different angles. Hating the characters ruins everything, robs the fandom of interesting thoughts, robs it of enjoyable things. I don't think the author hated her when he wrote her, he understood her and thought about her fate and thoughts. Art is not for hate. Lena Headey's acting makes me shiver. It's Brillant. And Cersei is Brilliant. Art is for beauty and complexity.
I am indeed a Cersei fan but I don’t see how being mad that your daughter is being shipped off to a desert death is diabolical. Would that not be more diabolical from the side of Tyrion? I mean, it isn’t like she kicked a child from a bicycle.
Even though Cersei wrongfully accused Tyrion of murdering Joffrey, I feel sorta bad because she had to witness her oldest son die in a VERY painful way.
Thing is the actual Cersei is quite dumb. In the tv series the only really dumb thing she did was the faith stuff. Well, and refusing to join the battle in the North.
I genuinely like Cersei, I don’t understand why people hate her so much. People rolled a dice and it landed on Cersei, that is usually how fandoms decide who to hate. The dude on my profile pic used to be hated, now he is beloved. People say Cersei did this and Cersei did that. I can say that for every character in the show. Cersei is not among the most evil people in the show, when you are raised with Tywin Lannister being your primary influence and being put down, abused and raped, you become a different person, people don’t understand that. Nobody ever judges the evil things Tyrion does, prostitution, drinking, whining when he has a better life than 99% of people. Nobody says Tyrion was evil for selling Myrcella to Dorne, Myrcella was only 10 years old. This community just act like sheep and hate on Cersei because that is the cool thing to do.
@@TheKlutz31013Cersei is evil but literally everyone in the show is. Cersei is no worse than the rest of her family. I could point out any character and explain why he or she is evil. I mentioned Tyrion in my comment. I ain’t saying Cersei is a good person, but she ain’t the worst person either. She would probably be a lawful evil. She doesn’t go around doing stuff to hurt others needlessly. I am glad to have met a fellow supporter of our true Queen. When fandoms hate someone, it is literally a dice roll. In another universe, Tyrion would be most hated. Cersei has flaws and positives, like every person, like you and me. People act like she is evil boosted to 11. It is so annoying.
I agree Cersei was definitely evil but every character has done something bad on the show so if your going to hate Cersei you may as well hate everyone on the show
@@SunshineBarbie-sv4bi Exactly, Cersei is likely not the best person but she is less evil than others. She doesn’t actively harm others who leave her alone, if you leave her alone than she leaves you alone. The Sept was collateral damage so that doesn’t count. Everyone on the show is an awful person but they don’t get hated but Cersei does, it is laughable. The fandom are like sheep just following the trend and not thinking for themselves.
@@Chernobyl_Reactor4 She had her guards beat the shit out of a random kitchen girl and then throw her in the dungeon as a flex. Collateral damage absolutely counts.
In Cersei’s defense, I couldn’t stand Margaery either. 😂 Her blowing up the Sept & taking care of most of her ops and in-laws at once was an epic scene, minus Tommem checking out. 😬
Jaime knew that it would never work between he and Brienne. Even Brienne recognized she was in mortal peril if Cersei recognized the love she had for Jaime and their mutual respect and burgeoning real intimacy for one another.
say what you will as awful of a person she is she loved her children fiercely. Her revenge against the Septa and Ellaria was the one time I understood why she did what she did. Tho the septa was kinda ... extreme.
