X Infinity if you have watched him then you would understand that he has said he understands that and people ask him to review and tell us about the probability of certain games.
I love how he makes fun of the blacksmiths in this game for their technique and then explains exactly why these techniques are necessary. Does he have any Magick Blades? Naw, the Magicks dripped out!
Andre doesnt need a forge, hes too good for them. He just needs candles, hes also just testing his weapons and as you can see no matter how long it takes to finish the game andre still cant break that sword
NONONONONONONO! If you hammer the pommel, the powerful reverberations would shatter the hammer and eviscerate all of the bones on the left side of your body, you would be another tragic story of ignorant pommel usage!
schmid1.0 cant pommel magic is temporary by design seeing how the pommel is the most op finisher we blacksmiths know everyone is going to use those pommel throw charges. gotta make money man.
My theory at least for dark souls is that they were blacksmiths before they died and tried to do what the chosen undead does but realizes that its hopeless so they try to reclaim their old lives by becoming blacksmiths again only to find out they dont have all of the proper tools so they hammer away at various unwanted swords to try and keep their sanity and keep from going hollow But in reality the devs didnt really want to take the time to put a forge and what not into the game, plus its easier to animate and place
I was looking for this comment. I have never used this word/phrase before... ever.. but: I think that idea is very romantic. I'm glad someone else had the same theory.
He's not making the swords, he's stress testing them. Every weapon he sells has to be rigorously tested to ensure the utmost quality. He's not going to show you how he actually makes the swords, that's a carefully-guarded secret.
reinforcing weapons is easy, just do what i do here *smashes sword with magic ores* *jams an important character soul into the sword* *sword instantly turns into a badass huge dragon slaying greatsword of dragon badassery* done
Well first you need a sword with enough of that ore in it and then it needs to be the right type of sword qualaag's fury sword for instance needs to have a curved sword but if it's a katana it will be the chaos blade. see not that easy 😛
In all these Souls games, I've only seen ONE blacksmith who actually had a forge: it was Vamos, the skeleton blacksmith who worked in The Catacombs. So, the guy seems to actually be closer to a proper smith, and yet even he continues to hammer away at finished weapons. I'm honestly thinking that From Software is just enamored with the sound of the hammer hitting the anvil...
Huh... well, I can see by your post, your name, and your avatar pic that intelligence isn't your strong suit, and it would be a waste of my time bothering to respond, but I'm amused, so why not? First off, I'm not stupid enough to think that what I posted here is something From Software would be interested in. If I was so full of self importance to think that (like, for instance, an certain individual who feels that someone's small opinion over a flaw in aesthetics is pretty much akin to bashing the whole game, and thus should be taken to task over it), I'd post this under some official video put out by Bandai Namco themselves, or shoot them an email about it, instead of, you know, posting this under a video that happens to have the EXACT SAME opinion as the one I just posted as a way of showing that I agree with the creator of said video. Second, Dark Souls may not be a game about blacksmithing (and by the way, no one here is under that illusion), but From Software DOES pride itself on getting a lot of small details right. For instance, having certain architectural styles shared among similar cultures, distinctive patterns in clothing items and furnishings which give you clues as to where them came from, the types of enemies you find in certain areas, environmental details that give you clues about what's going on around you, and so on. They even have katana being more fragile than the other European style weapons. They take pride in the little things, and they're fantastic at it. So it seems strange and funny that despite that, they then have blacksmiths just banging away at weapons without a forge in sight. It's weird, it's amusing, and it shouldn't be such a shock that people would comment on that. Third, no one was asking for them to have an in depth showcase on how swords were made. Neither Skall in the video, or myself in text, advocated that From Software should show Andre grabbing a lump a metal, putting it in the forge and working the bellows to get it to the right temperature, take the glowing hot metal out and bang it into shape, reheating it between blows, until it's just right, then quenching it in water, then shaping it some more and sharpening it. No one was asking for that detailed a process. All we said was that it was rather silly that he's (and other blacksmiths) banging uselessly at an already crafted weapon, and there is no forge in sight. Does that mean we think it's a bad game or something? No. Are we over reacting about it? NO. We're just commenting on it and having some fun with the idea, we're not demanding From Software put in a whole set of animation sequences for the sake of blacksmithing education. Though to be honest, if Bethesda could bother to actually show blacksmiths with proper tools in their shop in Skyrim, as another individual under this very video pointed out, I don't see why From Software couldn't, especially since think it wouldn't be that big a deal to just put in a simple 3d model of a forge in the shop. Hell, they did it for Vamos, and I doubt very much it took days or weeks of work to do so. What's even funnier is that the Elder Scrolls games (specifically Oblivion) was what got Sony to ask From Software to make would could end up being Demons' Souls in the first place. :P In short, chill the hell out. We like the game, we're just pointing out something we think is silly. Nobody died from us doing so, and nobody is sending angry manifestos to From Software about it either.
I can imagine Andre just placing the titanite on the armor or weapon you want upgraded, then just banging the shards mindlessly on to the equipment as your character stares in disbelief. Andre picks up the armor or weapon to hand it to you, the titanite just sliding off on to the stone floor, then saying with a smile "Good luck out there. Don't get yourself killed. Hahaha!"
Prikense: There's some artifacting on the sword blade at the bottom of the frame, right after he talks about magic dripping out of the blade. Looks like maybe some reflections on the blade got chroma-keyed.
SHOULD'VE "BANG" USED "BANG" A "BANG" CLAYMORE "BANG" BUT "BANG" I "BANG" GAVE "BANG" IT "BANG" TO "BANG" A "BANG" FUCKING "BANG" BIRD "BANG" AND "BANG" THERE "BANG" IS "BANG" ONLY "BANG" ONE "BANG" FUCKING "BANG" CLAYOMRE "BANG" IN "BANG" THE "BANG" ENTIRE "BANG" GODDAM "BANG" SUNSOFBITCHIN "BANG" MOTHERFUCKING "BANG" WORLD "BANG"
andre is probably going hollow. since lordran is where undead ended up when the asylum filled up or something... he might remember he was a black smith but forgot how to blacksmith, so there is actually a chance he might just hammer a fully completed sword forever until you show up and bring him out of the fog for a bit.
Dark souls blacksmiths are gods, they can make any blade, anywhere, with their bare hands. They don't give a shit, they just pound for days to prove the blade is strong, they don't need food nor water, pounding the blade is better than eating. Actually they eat raw minerals, they get their iron from their blades.
I'm pretty sure it's not laziness but rather convenience. Whenever you see a guy beating a sword over an anvel, even if it doesn't make sense with the way they are doing it, you immediately recongize that character in a video game as some sort of blacksmith. It's done so players don't waste time looking around for a certain npc, and can immediately distinguish who is who with just a look. It's kinda like how male/female bathroom signs work. Those little stick figures look nothing like actual people, and not all women wear skirts all the time (or at all), but despite this they do an excellent job of quickly informing someone of which bathroom they should use. Blacksmith npc in most games don't look like blacksmiths, but rather chariactures of blacksimths.
Not really. You would see a lot of tools and clutter, probably a big furnace and yes an anvil or two, but you add all this extra stuff for what? Iit doesn't convey the information any fasterr than just looking for a guy with a single anvil and hammer. As a gamer do you honestly want to navigate your a through an entire forge to look for an npc that you will interact with for like 30 secs while you decide what to lvl up before you go on your adventure? Sure it may be cool to look at but not every development studio is willing to spend the money rendering and creating an area that they know people will only ever go to when they need to buy/sell/upgrade stuff. Dark souls especially since the second you go to upgrade something a menu that covers the entire screen and is filled with stats is all you get to see.
While I realize this is a joke, as a 3d CG artist I'd just like to throw in my two cents... 1. Static models are relatively quick, cheap, and easy to make. 2. Even at that, statics are mostly made to be reused. A table full of hammers and tongs makes for good *generic* clutter any place you want to imply a workshop of any kind. A billows, furnace, and glowing hot, half finished swords... less so. 3. By comparison, animations are crazy time consuming. Ever notice said blacksmiths have maybe 3 or 4 short, easy to loop animations? 4. NPCs in games are often only *symbolic* of their function. If their function is not deeply tied to the story, they aren't worth the time... and as someone who has watched what LPers do and don't look at, it's pretty obvious that most people hardly even glance at the majority of the environments, so the blacksmiths and shopkeepers only really need just enough nick knacks to be easy to spot and differentiate, rather than stand up to the same scrutiny as major part of the plot and lore like the firekeepers. Again, I get it. It's a joke. It's just I hear/see these kinds of gripes *so* often it's hard to ignore them every time, neh?
I don't actually care about this, it was just a pretext for a parody video. :) Although I have no idea why they didn't just make a model of an unfinished bare blade for him to beat on. That could also be used as random clutter/ junk.
Like I said, I get that it's a joke, I was just too tired to ignore it... think of it as, you just happened to win the "ugh, this again" lottery, neh? ;) As to the reason for the finished sword on the anvil, it's likely a matter of it being a symbol. The sword art is probably already lying around anyway as battle clutter, and it is easier to see and identify than a dark unfinished rectangle (which is what it would have to be if it was going to be workshop clutter). It's as much a message of "hey player, this is where you do your weapon trading and upgrading." The whole character is a sign for its in game function... not to mention the fact that for DS3 specifically, the devs did a lot of things as nods to the rest of the series, including importing Andre more or less verbatim from DS1. Even down to his animations, which are conspicuously stiff compared to the other NPCs around him in DS3.
+Skallagrim I thought I'd also mention that I originally subscribed to your channel for art and animation reference, and I doubt I'm alone in that. You might want to reconsider how much you don't care about how weapon art gets to be the way it is since it's often folks like you that are the first and last reference an artist might see. Like it or not, you're probably part of how this sausage gets made now. ;) Great power yadda yadda responsibility... and all that, neh?
yep, animations are crazy hard, but would it kill the devs if they put a mini furnace at the side and make them pummel a red hot sword instead of a finished one ? heck even a glowing metal bar would be enough to combat the silliness.
Honestly Nek, it probably wouldn't be worth it. Most of the folks that are going to complain about there not being a furnace next to every smith (and there are plenty of games where it is there) will just find something else to nitpick about. Meanwhile, the 99% of the people who see a guy smacking a sword with a hammer and think, "ah, there's the smith, now I can flog all my loot, buy an upgrade, and get back to killin dudes." wouldn't even notice the difference. Unless the game is about being a smith, they're just a signpost for an unglamorous game mechanic, and not worth the time to an already over worked and underpaid art staff. You guys all care so much and think it's a piece of cake, why not mod it in yourselves, eh?
The dark souls 2 smith I can understand because he is hollow and crazy. But Andre doesn't *need* a real forge, he just smiths so fast that the iron ends up heating up. Haven't you seen "VERY fast Andre smithing at incredible hihg speed"? (Yes, the title is spelt correctly)
Given the fact that Andre managed to survive until DS3, I just assumed he was a god or something. Maybe the son of the unnamed god of smithing or something.
The answer isn't as fun as you'd want. It's a matter of budgets. Animation budget, asset budgets, poly count, texture budgets, etc. The designer is trying to portray this character as a blacksmith to the player. What is needed for that? A guy pounding a sword on an anvil with a hammer means blacksmith to the majority of people playing the game. Certainly there will be people that understand the real process and don't see that happening. However creating the animations, fx, sounds, props, to create a realistic smithing process isn't necessary to tell the story. Would it be cool? Sure! But most developers aren't going to spend their budgets creating it.
CurseTheDawn All they would've needed to do was replace the sword with a piece of half-finished metal so it wouldn't look like they're just hammering an already shaped blade
Blacksmiths in pretty much every game are guilty of this. The imposter theory would explain why all the weapons in the beginning of the game are pretty garbage...the only good weapons are traded for powerful boss souls.
The basic weapons are some of the most powerful in the game if you build correctly. The boss weapons tend to be quite niche and definitely fall off when it comes to damage as you level and scaling overtakes base damage.
Yeah in Gothic 1 you had to go through all the basic steps, but you could only smith a standard sword (which was pretty decent for the start of the game and was a good way to make some money early on). But in Gothic 2 they made it simpler, you just had to use the anvil i think. On the other hand there were way more swords to craft. Man i miss the Gothic franchise, such amazing RPG's.
No, you still had to use the fireplace to heat up the steel bar too. (Though you could buy pre-heated bars too, which is kinda silly now that I think about it) Also, you could use the sharpening wheel to give it a buff to damage.(added in the expansion I think) The only part that was gone is cooling down the blunt sword in water after hammering it on the anvil.
honestly ive always loved the smithing in might and magic dark messiah, taking the metal bars melting them, pouring them into the mold then quenching then re heating and then hitting them a few times before sticking on a handle. i always loved it since you had to do each stage manually
Guess, you want to see the blacksmith doing "something". Would be kinda lame seeing him just standing there. And it wouldn't make much sense seeing him endlessly hammering a red-hot chunk of metal that never cools off etc.
a lot more sense than hammering the finished blade there are games where blacksmiths actually do all the necessary steps like heating hammering quenching and grinding
It would at least make more sense to see him hammer a bare blade instead of a fully finished piece. And maybe have an actual forge so he is even able to do his job in theory.
Gothic 1 does it all and gothic2 parts of it but they are from 2001/2 however if you can mind the oldshool controls awesome games(for gothic 2 try the dx11 mod)
The funny thing is, way back in the 16-bit era they actually did it right. The blacksmith in Link to the Past actually does have a forge and hammers on a chunk of red-hot unfinished steel.
The hell? How did I become Mr. Expert? I just said it looks correct from an artistic perspective. I didn't get all into details about temperature and carbon content of steel and shit. Go be a douche to someone who claims to know shit.
well, they are supposed to have some embers with them... Anyway, reinforcing weapons doesn't make sense too. You can't just PPAP sword with some ore/metal chunk and get a better sword out of it.
Maybe it's because they're hollows. You know, when you're losing your humanity you start to go mad and repeat a routine with some resemblance to what you did when you were alive, but as an unconscious and irrational act. I always noticed that Andre is forever pouncing that sword, but for me it always made sense that it was just a symptom of him becoming a hollow.
There is a lore explanation: "Forge, I can. Strong, I am". I mean, characters carry warehouses of loot on their person and pull weapons out of hammer space mid combat. Maybe I am being too harsh with these games, I should use the tried and true diplomatic approach they thought me: Souls series: "Who are you ?" Me: "Make peace" Souls series:"I help anytime" There we go, problem solved.
The line is a reference to the blacksmith in Dark Souls 1. The dialogue is a reference to a weird conversation with the archer in Dark Souls 3. The characters are really cool, but those are really weird moments nonetheless.
KaiserAfini You forgot to mention that you turn around, get pushed and fall down some stairs, through an illusionary wall, go down the most oddly placed slide, and find yourself in front of the bed of chaos, 40 capra demons, 10 Taurus demons, a few demon firesages, and a young demon king waiting for you. Souls series: Suprise, I got you a present, and just wait till you see phases 4-89 of the fight, I'll give you a hint, phase 2 involves platforming, a thousand archers firing greatbows at you, and you fight every boss from all our games at once! Don't give me that look, I know how much you love when it hurts!
This video makes me a bit nostalgic for those old steampunk roleplay videos you used to do, that's how I found your channel in the first place a few years back. I'd love to see those come back some day :D
in dark souls it is hell the whole upgrade system is based around collecting the correct magical ember that allows the blacksmith to forge the weapons still dumb though, easy explanation is that the actual forging with magic is done in a different manner. and those guys are sitting there for eternity, they need some way to pass the time so why not just hit somthing for a while
Always really enjoyed the " NCP Shopowner" skits. Their so funny, original, and get down to the nitty gritty as to why game logic is both hilarious and nonsensical. Keep up the great work;Skall.
also, you brought up a funny point about weapon reinforcement... reinforcing armor by adding more material to it isn't tooo stupid per se... but reinforcing weapons by adding material is just plain silly
Hey' it's better stronger metal that fell from the sky....and turned into a demon in some cases....and got eaten by a giant lizard in others.....and sometimes changes colors.....or gets magic infused.........................................................................look it's a very versatile material that puts steel to shame, and is incredibly rare.......but is magnetically attracted to player characters for some reason.
that blacksmith sketch part was hilarious! :D It's like that NPC in a game that you always come back to because he's funny, but sadly doesn't do very much. Anyway, loved that part! btw. blacksmiths in Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 were pretty spot on. At least it's in my memory that way.
As I've understood it, they're just small pieces or titanite (mineral with largely unknown properties) into the blade, not actually forging anything. At least in dark souls 3, I don't recall Andre actually creating a single weapon.
Hammer away at a finished blade - made of IRON no less - to point out BLACKSMITH HERE. Standard response = IT'S MAGIK, I AIN'T GOTTA EXPLAIN SHITE. Video Game Logic. Or Insane Troll Logic. Whatever, I suppose.
As a new blacksmith myself, I can tell you that those dark souls smiths will not be smithing for long. They're not using the anvil's bounce, so either they all use awful anvils or they just want to ruin their shoulders.
Right, I didn't even think of that. Can't really expect animators to be aware of proper technique. Making him beat a fully finished sword rather than a roughly shaped blade though is rather strange.
If it were an unpolished blade, I would assume he annealed it to work it cold. But since it's fully polished, he's just ruining it. Also, love your videos!
Dark 1 I get, considering how rushed and un-finished it is. Which, if you don't know what's not finished with the game, it's a hell of a lot of cut content and sloppily done work. Still my favourite game of all time. Andre in Dark 3 has no excuse though.
A good anvil is bouncy, it throws the hammer back up to you so you don't have to pick it up every time. How you swing your hammer helps too; you swing the hammer like you are throwing an axe to the center of the anvil, this loose grip saves your wrist from injury, and then the anvil bounces the hammer back up to you so you don't have to strain your shoulder to repeatedly lift the hammer.
I had a thought, watching this: It has indeed been a while since Fantasy Weapons Scrutinized went on... "indefinite hiatus", we'll say. In the same vein of it, I thought it would be interesting to think about certain sword designs from either dark souls 3, general eye-catchers like the Drakeblood Greatsword for example, and point out the highs and lows, get a discussion going in the comments.
its even worse than you think. Titanite in game is described as being etched into the weapons in which case I don't think a hammer would be involved at all.
I'm a blacksmith and I really get annoyed at blacksmiths in games... THEY ALWAYS HAMMER COLD STEEL! AND SPARKS FLY OF CONSTANTLY! EVEN WHEN WORKING HOT STEEL THERE SHOULD BE NO SPARKS UNLESS YOU'RE FORGE WELDING!!! AAAAAARGH!!!!
Thank you for thisrealistic critique to videogames. I am a developer and I really appreciate seeing things from a historical point of view to make my games more accurate. Please continue reviewing games this way.
As I understand Blacksmithing, you often didn't have one person make the entire weapon. You'd have one business making a blade, another making the hilt, another to properly grind it, and someone who can make a sheath with one of them acting as the middleman for the rest in the transaction. Not counting extra parts such as engravers and jewelers or the supporting industries required to get the materials for the aforementioned actions. Trying to represent that in game would probably serve only to annoy many players. It's easier to just abstract it and show a well known image of a blacksmith, even if it's not historically accurate, because it is just such a small part of the larger game that it's difficult to justify the extra development hours.
It's an image that's associated with the name, even if it isn't correct. As a developer, you want the player wandering around to be able to pretty much instantly find the guy who will sell you swords and armor. You could have the smith hammering sheets or bars into shape, or he could be swinging a hammer, holding a full blown sword. While the latter is more than a little ridiculous for a number of reasons, there's no real question as to what he does, regardless of the setting around him.
