I would NEVER hate on Jordan but please do me a favor and keep this in mind - MJ didn't win ANYTHING in the 80's outside of individual awards and if it weren't for Scottie can we honestly say Jordan would have won 6 championships
@@seandupree8871 What Super star has won a title in the last 40 years without another all star? Dirk and Ben Wallace and Ben's not considered a super star. Why is it a blemish that Jordan didn't win without an all star? Maybe it could be brought up if Pippen won without Jordan at Houston or Portland
@@Nuthinnull Not saying he wasn't. The year they won the title Ben was an all-star Chauncey wasn't. They were looked at as a defensive team then. Led by the defensive player of the year with Ben.
And that’s what kids today don’t understand. MJ made it global. That jingle “Like Mike, if I could be like Mike…” was sung in multiple languages. And till this day, Jordan’s are the most sought after brand and shoe. Lebron is great, but, Jordan is GOAT…
@@paaulaio12 one thing about you MJ buffoons(please excuse the term) is this:: in a team effort task such as Globalizing basketball, or winning a chip, You MJ Bufoons give most of the credit to one individual(Micheal Jordan) Team Think about what team means 🙏
@@JohnDoe-xm8wi there are plenty of players who put Kobe in the conversation: Larry Bird Quentin Richardson Tracy McGrady Charles Barkley Kyrie Irving Jayson Tatum Allen Iverson Kendall Gill Quinn Cook Bruce Bowen Matt Barnes Dirk Nowitzki Shaquille O’Neal Robert Horry Jamal Crawford etc.
People critique Jordan for a few reasons: 1) lack of basketball knowledge 2) recency bias 3) want to feel like they are experiencing the Goat in their lifetime 4) for attention There is no world, no time frame, no basketball team that Jordan is not part of my team. He is unequivocally the GOAT. The stats, accolades, and results are overwhelmingly in his favor.
@@donc6781 I understand that kids would like to say they saw the GOAT, and the recency bias involved, but there's no way if you sat them in front of a computer and had them watch an MJ season in his prime that they wouldn't come away thinking MJ was that dude. The Lebron debate is laughable unless you're determining GOAT status by longevity statistics, which at a certain point is really dumb.
Ppl only critique Jordan to boost up LeBron. But when you mention his faults they always have to put it into context. Don’t forget these “analysts” make these awful takes for views
LeBron fans will use or ignore context depending on if it suits their argument. They love to bring up Jordan's playoff record pre-Pippen and ignore all the context, while conversely when a Jordan fan brings up LeBron not even making the playoffs his first 2 seasons context magically becomes important. If you want a good laugh, next time one of them mentions Jordan being 1-9 in the playoffs without Pippen respond back with "LeBron couldn't make the playoffs without Larry Hughes" and watch their reactions. Hilarity will almost certainly ensue.
@@Edo_Hashirama I actually liked Larry Hughes, too. He wasn't the greatest of course, but he was pretty solid. He was certainly better at the stage of his career when he got to Cleveland than Pippen was his rookie year with Chicago, but many LeBron fans refuse to acknowledge that because they seem to think that Pippen came into the NBA as the Hall of Famer he'd eventually become when everyone grounded in reality knows that isn't even close to being true.
@@davidmartinez52420 Bronsexuals are the biggest hypocrites. They use stats to justify him being the GOAT. Then when you ask them about John Stockton being the best PG of all time beyond stats and that's always a no. Stats are only important for their boyfriend.
you’re some kind of undiscovered genius Colin; Scottie Pippen came into the league and showed Jordan how to play basketball even though he was a bench player; we also have to keep count of all those championships Pippen won without Jordan…oh wait
@@worp4406 MJ shy away from competition and join the Celtics, Pistons, Houston, Suns or Knicks he will win without Scottie, Lebron did that and still choked against the Mavs. Kyle Kuzma avgs better than than Scottie before Lebron came there, but still got traded he should make Kuzma better but no.
I watched the Bulls a lot when Jordan and Pippen played….they were great teammates….Pippen didn’t carry Jordan, though….remember in ‘98 when Pippen went out with surgery, and Jordan willed the Bulls to a championship…he carried the Bulls on his back, especially that year
Absolutely. I'd also add Phil Jackson on top of Pippen for '98. Jackson had one foot out the door the entire year. Having to overlook that as a player/team, didn't make for a great situation. Also, like most people, Cowherd doesn't understand basketball. When people talk about Jordan as just a scorer, they completely ignore how great he was off of the ball. As great as he was as a scorer, and a defender, he's JUST as excellent off of the ball, which is a key component in not jamming up the effectiveness of his teammates. The triangle in large part, worked well, because of how fundamentally sound Jordan was. Some people act as though he was the best version of Iverson, Dominique Wilkins, George Gervin or World Be Free. He's the most complete basketball player, and if people attribute "all around" to triple doubles, you know that they're lost. And that's not just a jab directed at Westbrook, the same could be said for Robertson, Harden, LeBron, etc. Magic and Bird (perhaps Jokic) are the exceptions.
seriously and that 98 finals run was ridiculous... in that final game pippen was the second leading scorer with 8 points and jordan had 45...... but ya what a superteam jordan had
What funny about this whole Pippen carried MJ argument, is no one talks about how Pippen carried Portland or Houston? Funny cause those teams did not win with Pippen.
LeBron didn't win squat before FINALS MVP DWade let him come to Miami... LeBron didn't win squat before MULTI TIME CHAMPION Pat Riley. Hakeem didn't win squat until Robert Horry got drafted.... Wow, that was easy...
Let's not even forget how easy a lot of his Finals runs were. 2007 was the easiest Finals run of all time because the Cavs only had to face 0.500 teams and an injured Pistons, only to get swept by the Spurs. Not to mention, they only got into the Playoffs because he had a second option, Larry Hughes, who was averaging the same as Pippen (except that Larry Hughes became worse when he joined the Cavs and had his FGA attempts dropped massively). And the next Cavs Finals appearances practically followed the same trend. This even applies to Miami Heat 2013 Championship where the only strong team that he had to defeat is PG Indiana Pacers which is way weaker than the 90s Pacers. A lot of Lebron's Finals appearances were due to how weak Eastern conference during the 2000s, hence why the West dominated, so with a Super Team, it's no wonder why they can get in easily.
and then got his ass kicked with the biggest choke job ever against old Dirk averaged 2.2 points in the 4th qt 17 ppg yea that's some goat shit right there
When did Lebron receive a 7 ppg rookie where everyone said "Okay we're set!!... Lebron has what he needs!!".. No one said that for MJ either and the Bulls had among the worst casts in NBA.. So MJ lost to dynasties with horrible casts, while Lebron lost to a 1-star team as big favorite twice (09, 11) MJ developed single-digit rookies into significant contributors (Pippen, Grant, BJ), while Lebron's abnormal ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that never developed a single young player into a significant contributor in 2 decades
This is a great point which needs to be discussed more. bronstans love to point out how the bulls were successful when Jordan left in the 93-94 season. It's because the players on jordan's teams actually got better as basketball players. If you're gonna claim to make your team better, the players you're playing with need to actually improve, not fall off a cliff when you're not there and have players who were more productive elsewhere decline when they play with you.
He gets paid to disrespect mj along with nick wrong and Shannon notsoSharpe they act like they understand basketball but when it gets to Jordan all of their So called Knowledge/facts abt the game just goes out the window 😂🤡
Bulls kept on losing 3 consecutive years after acquiring Pippen and Phil Jackson while MJ kept on putting records and winning awards without them. Dynasties were not built in an instant, but when it's ready there's nothing left to do but to conquer.
Jordan before 7ppg scottie Pippen arrived. 1982 NCAA champion with Game winner. won 1st ring for UNC and Coach Dean Smith 1984 National College Player of the Year 1985 NBA Rookie of the Year over Hakeem and Charles and Stockton 1984 Olympic Gold Medalist.
Hes a passive leader who makes everyone around him no more than spot up shooters and limits their skill level. Its why Love was better BEFORE LeBron, Wade was better BEFORE LeBron, Bosh was better BEFORE LeBron, Allen was better BEFORE LeBron, Kyrie was better AFTER LeBron, AD was better BEFORE LeBron, Ingram, Lonzo, Kuzma, all of them were better AFTER LeBron.
And Bosh numbers went way down, and Kevin Love. And wade for that matter. Kyrie wouldn't have that shit that's why he left Cleveland. And his numbers didn't go down.
thats the biggest fuckin myth of them all.... if lebron makes his teammates better then why when he leaves are they in the draft lottery?? but whne jordan retired the first time his team was still a contender?? u think that was an accident or jordan literally trained them with his leadership to be killers?
Pippen carried Michael so much that in 1995 when the Bulls were 34-31 and were mediocre at best, Pippen was asking for a trade request and when that did not happen, he was begging on TV for Michael to come back. But yeah, Scottie carried the Bulls if you let Colin Cowherd tell it.
I guess someone should let Colin know that the highest rated NBA game in history (including the 2016 Finals) is the 1998 NBA finals game 6 which has a national rating of 36.3 million and this does not even include viewership in other countries just in USA alone for that 1 game.
So for him to point out Pippen as the source of MJs success… and say LeBron is better… but you can point to Wade, Bosh, Allen, Irving, Love and Davis for his and still trails Jordan… Always Jordan fault when 9 of 15 years he loss out of a championship, but this we a couple months away from 16 of 20 that LeBron sees another champion crowned and so far I’ve heard 15 years worth of excuses.
He knows Jordans the goat, but he knows what gets him money. His opinions always change likely depending on the numbers their crunching over there. You can't take him seriously, I'm even pretty sure he's mentioned this a long time ago.
It's amazing how everyone is arguing about MJ vs. LeBron. The only thing I can say is when I watch interviews with either MJ or LeBron, MJ talks about how great Pippen was, and he talks about his competitors. LeBron talks about himself and how great he is. That makes me wonder, if he's so great, why does he have to brag on himself? When you're really great, people say you're great. When you want to be considered great, you self-promote. So, by Lebrons own actions, as much as he wants to be considered to be great, he doesn't believe it himself.
Colin Cowherd's segment was supposed to be about Jordan's selling his stake in the Charlotte Hornets but Colin too that time to try and tear Jordan's NBA legacy down and made an ass out of himself on live tv
MJ carried the whole league to international & global recognition. Cowherd like a lot of analysts think that by trashing MJ it will bring more viewers to their program.
If you actually go back and look at Michael in baseball he was working his way up to the majors if MLB hadn't gone on strike The strike is what caused him to go back to the NBA
World Series Champion Manager Terry Francona said back then that Jordan was improving rapidly and that he expected him to make it to the majors with a little more time but then the strike happened
You know what the funniest thing about lebron fans is? They always claim that rings and finals mvps don’t matter in their debates between lebron and Jordan. But if you pay attention, they bring those two things up every single time when talking about lebron vs Durant or Curry or kawhi etc etc. For some reason they say those things don’t count when it’s Jordan who has more of them, but whenever it comes to players who have less, they use that point relentlessly. Trying to poke a hole in jordans career is impossible. There’s no point in trying because it’s flawless. Lebron fans say lebron is the goat but hold him to the standards of a player who’s not even in the top 10. Then they say jordans not the goat but hold him to the standard of the most high.
James has the same amount of finals losses as Jordan has won finals lmfao. That tells you everything you need to know. Lebron is 4/10 Jordan was 6/6, 100% is more impressive than 40%. I never thought of Lebron as a force and absolutely dominant because The Spurs and The Warriors were flat out better TEAMS. Jordan was dominant because he literally carried those Bulls teams and he wanted to literally win every game he played. Teams and some players were intimidated and feared Jordan, never seen that happen for Lebron because teams could beat Lebron even in his prime. Don't get me wrong Lebron James to me is an all time great, but Michael Jordan's legacy and dominance hasn't been surpassed since he retired. I think Bill Russel and Michael Jordan are better than Lebron James regardless of Lebron's stats.
I like how this channel quickly reacts to Colon and Slick Nick Wright, .the used car salesman . This channel debunks with FACTS not feelings. Keep up the great work .we appreciate your research efforts and final product. Always great uploads!
Jordan needed a power forward more than Pippen lol. The one time he lost to Orlando was about not having Horace Grant. They got Rodman the next year and set an NBA record
Wrong. Scottie is by far the most important Bulls player after Mike. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. 2 3peats with completely different rosters except for 2 players pippen and MJ. This is obvious proof that almost everyone on the Bulls was replaceable except for those 2. Pippen is NOT replaceable
@@w.davidholland7228 Pippen disappeared in so many playoff series even during the 3 peat years lol. He had Pippen and no Grant/Rodman and lost. Pippen was a great role player lets stop making him more than what he was. No one thought he was that great back then except for Bulls/Jordan d!ckriders lol.
@@Quazey8 For real. People don't remember but the Jordan flu game, Scottie shot 5 for 17 . Jordan even had to carry the team when he wasn't feeling well. The clip where Scottie carried Jordan off the court, he was asked about it in an interview and Scottie said the least he could do is carry Jordan off the court when Jordan carried them on the court. Scottie was a great player, but he's way too overrated these days, there are some people who actually think Scottie carried Jordan lmao. Those people should never talk basketball ever again.
Colin coward wasn’t saying this when he had Jerry West on his show or any other competent NBA players. Watch if he get Bird or Kareem , Shaq etc how quiet he get. He sounds like he is on Lebron payroll now.
The whole Jordan without Pippen narrative is an attempt by Lebron's fans to take a positive of Jordan's and turn it into a negative while turning a negative for LeBron into a positive. Of course when you don't leave your team everytime something doesn't go your way. You're going to have the same teammate for a long time. And when you have to switch teams to hunt for championships. You're going to have different teammates.
That's the most egregious aspect of this whole LeBron vs. MJ situation. When in comparable situation or simply situations that are universal for all basketball players, they try to make something sound bad for Michael and the same thing sound good for Lebron. They say MJ got carried by Pippen, then they ignore that LeBron was stacking teams, they says rings don't matter because it's a team game, but then they say 80's Jordan's accolades don't count because he "wasn't winning," never mind the fact that in his rookie year he got the Bulls to the Playoffs after they missed 3 seasons. When Lebron gets kicked in the playoffs or finals they say "he faced rough competition," but when Jordan got swept in the playoffs by a Celtics team considered one of the best ever, or by the Pistons who were notoriously rough players with a specific plan against MJ, the LeBron fans simply say MJ was nothing without Pippen.
I love seeing how LeBron fans reacr every time I say that to them in response to the "Jordan didn't make it out of the 1st round until Pippen got there". If you want a good laugh, I suggest you start doing that too if you haven't already.
MJ won a national championship 🏆 a Olympic Gold medal 🏅 as the head of the last college team to beat the world in the Olympics. Defensive 1st team Rookie of the year and a scoring title All before pippen.
Well done video with a lot of facts. I knew these facts of Pippens 1st 3 years where his performance wasn't at its peak, but a lot of people who don't believe Jordan is the goat will overlook this fact. Even in Pippens' peak years, he mostly average 19 points a game compared to Jordan's 33 points a game which is significantly alot more points. Also, Jordan was successful even before Pippen was on the team bringing the Bulls to the playoffs once again in his rookie year. Won an MVP before Pippen was a factor. This huy is out to lunch with his comments.
😂 man! You'll killed with this! Great points! That notion that "Jordan never won without Pippen" is beyond silly🥴 That can be said Greek never one with Middletown 😂 Curry never won before Klay. Shaq never won before Kobe.😂🤣 at what point does it end. It's a team sport🤷🏽♂️
What did Scottie Pippen win without Michael Jordan? Pippen even went to the Rockets in 1999 to join Barkley and Olajuwon. They lost in the 1st round of the playoffs.
Another difference between MJ and Lebron is that Lebron had to jump around the league to 4 teams (Cavs twice) to win. Now that is becoming a trend and is taking some of the fun out of the game. What’s the point of rooting for a team if the players aren’t even gonna hang around for very long and collude with other players somewhere else to win a hollow championship?
At mjs prime. He was the Best. He could easily have won with or without Scott . So long as someone good or as good as Scottie or even a little less as Scottie was in his team. But kudos to Scott. It's a Team game
@@clarkkent1521 yes ofc. I agree, but still. Everyone has a role to play. You can have two amazing players, but with trash role players you ain’t wining jack. Example, Dallas mavericks LOL
@@gohan5123 But the trash players, aka the supporting players, are interchangeable or can be replaced. The star players cannot. The team does receive contribution from the trash players, but they are also there just to fill the team's lineup. Eddie Feigner is the greatest underhand softball pitcher of all time. His team, The King and His Court, played teams all across the country and won 95 percent of those games. Eddie was the King and his Court was just "trash" players no one knew. He needed those teammates not because of their skill, but because it would be impossible to play softball by himself. But he only needed 3 threemates. His team of 4 people beat teams of 9 people on a regular basis. This proved that it was mainly Eddie, one guy, who was winning these games. He played with the least amount of people needed to make it viable.
Wtf are people talking about nowadays, I watch the game and I know what I can see, stats and other stuff off the court are supposed to compliment the visual presentation on the court. I'm an AI fan and I watched the tail of MJ's career live, I've been through the whole two decades of 21st century and I miss the old days. The game is degenerating not evolving, also I think a lot of people's brain are also degenerating in the modern days and they think they woke lmao
Great video my guy once again you debunked. What player has Bron played with that he helped double those avg in scoring rebounding assists? We need a stat breakdown of his teammates
In Pippen's first two seasons, Jordan was STILL doing an AWFUL LOT of HEAVY LIFTING. Jordan, at the time, was NOT 🚫 only the Bulls leading scorer. He was ALSO the Bulls primary playmaker and facilitator.
Mann every time people uses the Jordan didn’t without pippen narrative I wonder if they realize they proving why Jordan is the GOAT,pip is just one man look at all the other teams you mentioned and how many talented players you listed that help those teams won compared to who Jordan had they only use pippen’s name so the fact Jordan only needed that one talent only makes his case stronger so saying that he didn’t win without pippen not hurting his case
My favorite is how they say the entire league in Jordan's day was trash and the average bench player today would be an All Star or borderline Hall of Famer back then, yet will contradict themselves by saying Jordan always had a more talented roster for support. How is that possible if the 8th guy off the bench for the Hornets would be a top 25 player in the 80s and 90s?
This. I mean, I understand the media nowadays where a lot of dudes just vomit out hot takes and say stupid shit....but Cowherd is on another level. If you actually look at his "analysis" of stuff, it's incredible how often he's not just wrong....but incredibly wrong...like on another planet wrong.
Notice they always concentrate on SCOTTIE? And leave out Horace? I assume caus HORACE was on the 95 magic team. They don't wanna admitt how dangerous a Shaq, Penny and Horace combo was in 95. I say this caus you go back and watch Scottie and Horace in late 80s, Horace was the more dependable player.😅
Michael Jordan was, by far, the best player in the NBA for about ten of the years he played. I don't care how great a player is, he can't win a championship by himself. Jodan didn't win a championship before Horace Grant joined the team either, but that's not relevant to anything.
MJ averaged 35+ ppg before Pip got there, not only that MJ never missed the playoffs as a Bull. Get it right. 50+% in clutch moments. +7 rebs,6+ assist, NEVER SEEN GAME#7 IN THE FINALS 😂 3X STLS CHAMP.
Also Lebron LOST as many finals that Jordan won. 4/10 doesn't seem that good does it? 4 is still great, but 6/6 is more and 100% championships, not 40% lol.
1997-98, Pip played 44 out of 82 regular season games. Yet the Bulls were tied with the Jazz for the best record that season. Pippen went on and scored 10pts in Game 3, 6pts in Game 5 and 8pts in Game 6 of the 1998 Finals. Carried MJ? Lol. This is what people like Cowherd do to be all over social media.
They always use the pippen narrative when it's not that relevant to the conversation. He already had a HoF career before pippen. And he didn't win as soon a pippen got there
It amazes me how ALL of these clowns that sit & critique Jordan, only have stepped on the court to put a mic to their mouth to interview them. It's a team effort & best believe Pippen NEVER carried Jordan. It's a team sport & Jordan was the leader. Never did he up & leave Chicago to tag team with another group of superstars. Everything that came from those 6 rings was organic, not piecing together superstars. Jordan stepped on the court to win rings & not become best friends with you.
Let's be real here. Phil Jackson walked into an ideal situation - a plum job - when Phil Jackson (like Pippen) could play "Good Cop" to Jordan's "Bad Cop". Jordan was on everyone already, and they were on the right track, building, with Doug Collins. I prefer Jackson over Collins, as Jackson has always been a bit of an alchemist when it comes to unerstanding whatever the team needs; especially with role players. Other than getting Jordan to fully commit to the triangle, Jackson's greatness has always been how he delegates with the non-stars of the team. And it's not like Jordan ever put up a fight , not wanting to play the triangle. I bet his only hesitation lasted no longer than a second or two when being presented with it; as anyone with a functioning brain and being asked to "change" would do. You'd think that Jordan took years, fighting against the system, resisting it (like Kobe), or whatever. Does that make any sense, considering that he came out of UNC and was coached by Dean Smith? I mean, I have a very hard thinking that Phil Jackson had to drop the hammer on anyone, when Jordan's getting on player X when they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing; specifically in practices. You don't think he missed having a Jordan on his team, when Pippen was the pseudo leader in '94? Or when Shaq and Kobe were acting like babies? Give me a break. I'd also add that Jordan didn't rip his teammates apart during the game; like he'd do in practice. He would wait until they got to the bench on a timeout, there was probably some cursing (of course), and then he'd clap and slap his teammate on the ass; as if to say "Let's move on" and being encouraging at the same time. None of this, other team scores, star player misses his defensive assignment and procedes to blast the closest teammate in his proximity for what he was supposed to do, even though there's an inbounds pass coming as the play isn't dead; hello LeBron, Luka, Derozan, Scottie Barnes, and a VERY long list of other NBA "stars". Like I said, great coach, but a plum job.
The he sucked at Baseball narrative is always funny to me. MJ hasn’t played baseball since he was 12yrs old. Yet he managed to get hits and even a few HRs against minor league players. When you consider hitting a baseball is the single hardest thing to do in sports, and this man was 30+ picking up a bat for the first time since he was 12. That’s a ridiculous accomplishment!
