8:31 - Thank you for bringing this up, Brother Smith! Before I joined the church, I had a beautiful relationship with God. I was very devoted to Him according to the knowledge I had. I knew He loved me even though I refused to join myself with any particular religion. At the age of 17, I offered up what I call my Enos prayer. I begged Him to show me His plan for me because I was lost & having thoughts of suicide. Shortly after, I met Elder Lyday & Elder Gilleland. That was 25 years ago this month! ...And the rest is history. 😉😇
This is one episode I still clearly remember and think about. Dr. Miller's insights were so thought provoking. He's different than a lot of the other scholar's that have been on the show and I really liked that! I loved his comments that our emotions are what make the "raw material" for prayer and we can bring them into our relationship with God.
Thank you for another great and insightful episode. Speaking of Job's wife, and "losing faith" may be a significant oversight. Did Job's wife not have a HUGE emotional connection in losing her children? Did she not also suffer the great losses? There are moments in grief's agony where we think things, perhaps say things we don't really believe. Shouldn't we allow Job's wife a moment of weakness? I have glossed over the beginning of this story so many times, but after suddenly losing my son, this part hits me hard, and I feel for Job. I also think about Job's wife and the emotional agony in losing all her children.
I think being a mother is like wearing your heart on your shelve, when my children have heartache, it’s definitely like my own . . . Far More so than my husband. And if my husband got sick, I feel like mothers would bare that hardest again more than men, That’s just our nature. I think there is special mercy for woman, we tend to have multiple roles in life, regardless of what time you lived in. I have enjoyed “baseline” suffering in my life. But one of my children has experienced some real heartache and I honestly wished it had been my own. It has been a rough year and no one died. Interesting thoughts sister. I think woman are more empathetic to others, naturally so, and we feel that pain more than most men. Just thoughts.
I'm listening to this podcast now for the second time. The discussion around the term Hasatan is wonderful. I am a Mennonite, a singer/voice teacher, studying scripture with a close LDS friend. We share much in our scripture study. The voice teacher piece has taken me to having worked with many Cantors in their synagogue work. I have learned to follow Hebrew. The first time I heard the word Hasatan sung in a liturgical context, I stopped and asked about the word. I asked many about this, including Rabbis. The answer always came around to, it's not what you think it is, not a devil. We have deceiving thoughts that take us away from God/G-d. Thank you to Dr. Miller for exploring this issue with a broad audience. The Mennonite history of persecution is framed in book ofJob.
A few weeks ago, I listened to the episode with the New Testament-Romans section and Dr. Miller as your guest, which referred me back to this podcast. I somehow missed it last year, and I'm so glad you included the reference to come here and listen, because it's such a blessing! I agree with what Dr. Miller said, that Job is possibly the most important book in the Old Testament, because our own lives mirror so many of the experiences, and questions (hope I understood that correctly). I'm sure I'll listen to this many more times.
Hank and John, I’ve been a weekly listener for a long time and Introduced your Come Follow Me podcast work to several others. Thank you for sharing connections between so many seekers and so many witnesses of Jesus Christ! My siblings and my children and I have listened to and been blessed many times over many years by your gospel scholarship and lifting outreach to teens before this podcast work began. It is more difficult to partner teach and relinquish some control over the play by play development of a presentation than to run it all ourselves. God first teaches us to trust the leadership of His Spirit in our personal work and then invites us to extend that trust to other imperfect humans as well. I so appreciate your willingness to embrace that challenge, to turn the mic over to others, to believe in the importance of their voices and to trust God will help you formulate an appropriate response. I have one suggestion. Please lean in to trusting your guests’ abilities to witness even more. Dr Miller made incredibly insightful comments that were difficult to absorb because you moved on so quickly. Sometimes a better transition is needful and sometimes we simply need a longer silence, which not only validates the importance of what someone says but creates space for the Holy Ghost to fill, to confirm, to reveal, because we guard a space and time for His voice; by not filling it ourselves. I noticed this lack of processing time/speeding on challenge on several episodes but lamented it especially after Dr. Miller’s words and Michael McLean’s songs and words as well. Thank you very much for your labor to create resources that offer opportunities to increase gospel scholarship to people all over the planet!
Thank you for inviting Adam Miller to share so many insights on life, suffering and the book of Job. I hope you’ll have him on again, and not just for the book of Romans. Based on his short treatment of chastity in Letters to a Young Mormon, if there’s ever a lesson that focuses primarily on chastity, especially as it relates to our youth, I think he’ll bring some paradigm shifting insights to the table that are just as profound as what he’s shared here.
I appreciated the insight into processing loss. A dear friend once referred to it as “grieving over what might have been” and it has helped me to articulate feelings of loss and pain. Elder Christofferson quoted Sister McConkie, ““Most often it is the sacrifices we make to keep our covenants that sanctify us and make us holy.” There is something refining about keeping covenants through difficult times. Thank you so much!
I was given a copy of Adam‘s book, An Early Resurrection, by a good friend in our stake. I enjoyed it very much. It caused me to think much more carefully and in fact gave me some brand new things to think about. I have enjoyed many of your interviews with your guests over the last year or so, but none more than this one! Thank you for the wonderful work that you are doing. It’s a blessing to my family.
If death of loved ones was the only suffering we had to endure in this life it would be a more tolerable life because we know that death was part of the plan and for me I know we will be reunited with our loved ones. It is all the other sufferings I and others have experienced, many too horrible to mention, that have tested my faith and understanding. Faith and knowing God is here for me strengthened my testimony.
I loved the metaphor of wrestling with God, and as I was pondering on your discussion points I thought of being yoked with Christ. The avenue my mind then traveled down was that we wrestle with God like a tag team vs. wrestling with God with him as the opponent. He allows opposition because that, per Lehi, is necessary for our development. It is our form of resistance training. God is not the weight, though, He is our spotter if we let him help with the weight we are called to bear.
So grateful for this podcast! When I was in an Honors English Class in College, the Book of Job was one of the required readings. It was presented as a "Fairy Tale" since Satan was cast out of heaven, he couldn't have approached God and ask for these calamities to come to Job. For 20 years, I have had this in the back of my mind. I finally had to think of this story as a parable. I am grateful for your insights to settle my mind!
"That experience of loss is just core to what it means to be a human being...The very essence of religion is to find a way to handle loss, and to handle that loss together in a way that can redeem it..." Great insight from Dr. Miller.
Our responsibility to God is to obey Him, to trust him and to submit to His will, whether we understand it or not. When we do we will find God in the midst of our trials. We will see more clearly the magnificence of our God and we will say with Job, "My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you".Job 42: 5.
Yep, I've had that experience of a death in the family...and people say things that aren't helpful - or that HURT - when they try to explain OR look for reasons loss happened in my life - but won't happen to THEM, because they do things differently from me. 😖 And also have had many experiences of people quietly sitting with me, or taking long walks with me, and listening while I grieved. Lots of loss, lots of support from loved ones. "Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal" ❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏
I greatly appreciated Dr. Miller’s insights, comments, testimony and scholarship. I would have liked to have heard more from him directly (there seemed a lot of extra commentary on this one). I would have also liked to have actually read more verses and discussed their meaning both in the King James Bible and modern interpretations. There is so much in this book of scripture that is just passed over. Nevertheless, thank you for providing this invaluable resource for us. I learn, feel and spiritually grow immensely.
I think we should have Adam Miller on again. I loved what he said and the way he said it. I kept thinking I need to listen to this entire podcast again. It was that good. Thank you for your work in helping so many.
Job reminds me of the story of suffering of the Buddha. I was raised Buddhist and learned about how the Buddha had a life crisis wondering why so much suffering around him. In search of finding the truth, he left his comfortable life as a prince and went on to experience pain and suffering in order to find the meaning of it. He came to find the so called, “middle path.” Which leads to the understanding of a true happiness.
This makes my day very 🕰️ you find another new professors on your podcasts, I'm so excited to get to👂them share their 🎁s and wisdom with us.Don't be nervous John is your bodyguard
Other translations at 18:35. There have been recent changes in the church about using translations other than the KJV. We are instructed now to use other translations if needed for educational or academic research purposes. I saw that Elder Uchtdorf cited the NIV in his 2021 general conference talk. I have used other translations for Gospel Doctrine class lesson plan preparation if there is really old English that is unclear in the KJV. Some examples of modern versions of the Bible include the NRSV, NIV and NASB.
I loved listening to, and learning from, Dr. Miller! Wow! He had brilliant insight that I was excited to learn. I feel like he didn't get enough time to talk, though. I'd much rather hear more from your guests than quite so many quotes from conference talks, etc. and the back and forth with Hank and John. It seemed like there was a moment when Dr. Miller was maybe wondering a little bit why he was there! 😬 I do hope you have him back next year with the New Testament!
I loved the discussion about using the other Bibles, however the one thread missing from this and all of those discussions is the idea of seeking personal revelation and a witness of what it is that you are reading or studying. I personally have done many comparisons through prayer of the different Bible versions, and have found many of the newer translations changing the meaning of what God had written in the King James version. So yes, if you need to use the alternate versions to better understand the word of God, make sure you’re including Him in your study so that you can be aware of when you’re being misled by the other so-assumed inspired versions. I believe this is the main reason President Nelson has been pushing so strongly the idea of receiving personal revelation and witness in these last days. There are too many out there who are deliberately trying to deceive, and I would say 100 times that out there who are not trying to deceive but end up doing so anyway because they do lack the inspiration to represent God and his word.
Do you think that Job was from the Land of Uzbekistan, Which means the Land of Uz? Job is mentioned in the Book of Jasher with a comment on what the Egyptians should do with the Israelites? What he said was not a guiding light.
I have discovered the overviews of the different books of the bible by The Bible project on You Tube. They are in my opinion very helpful in the introduction of the different books and I found the one on Job very good. They are interesting and informative , but just that an overview.
We cannot develop Hope without experiencing loss. Hope is just as important as faith and charity. Therefore, loss is essential. The Book of Job can be called the Book of Hope. If we understand the vital importance of developing Hope, we can trust in Gods plan when loss comes and a relationship can develop with Him that can’t happen any other way-except through loss. The beautiful ending of Job as he developed a stronger relationship with God and obtained a “good hope of glory” to where God manifested himself, and then was blessed more abundantly than before is expounded in Jacob 4:11.
Talking about a more Accurate translation of the devil possibly being "the accuser" makes me think of the title devil's advocate. Devils advocate being defined as a person who expresses a contentious opinion in order to provoke debate or test the strength of opposing arguments. The very beginning of the Holy counsel starts with the "accuser" playing devil's advocate to the Lord's claim of Job being a perfect and upright man.
You've probably addressed this in a previous episode, but I'm interested in purchasing a newly revised standard edition of the Bible. Um, there are a few different options on Amazon, ha ha. Is this sold at Deseret Book? Thanks!!
Wish you had addressed that Job was one of God's chosen. It says he was from the East. Who else was from the East? The 3 wisemen? God had his chosen people in the East. They were taught about God and commandments and had prophesies. How else would they know about God and sins?
Love, love, love your podcasts. May i suggest you never use the term "to be honest" again? It suggests that at other times you are not honest. Instead, use the word candid to replace honest. Keep up the good work!
I don't think in all other languages does the church use the contemporary bible. I served in Ukraine where by law only the orthodox version was legal. It was hard for the people to understand and people liked the book of Mormon because they could understand.
I love what hank smith and John bytheway have done with this podcast and I really appreciate all they do but It frustrates me that they focus so much on the self deprecating humor. I look up to both of them so much but when they talk about them selves in this way it makes me loose respect and wonder if they see the good they do.
I disagree with your discussion about Job’s wife. We need to remember everything (except boils) that happened to Job also happened to Job’s wife. She was probably hurting, being a mother and woman, more than Job. Where was Job? Was he comforting his wife? NO! We know the scriptures are abbreviated when he comes to women. Being someone who also had many difficulties one after another and in a lot of pain, Perhaps the wife was saying “I am in so much pain, how can I not curse God and I am hurting so much, I just want to die!” She was also rewarded with Job so obviously she was also a very righteous person. We need to be more compassionate with her instead of speaking poorly of her.
