Debate: Does God Exist? (Dehler & Gogan)

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Does God exist? A Christian (Ronny Gogan) and atheist (Bernie Dehler) discuss it, at a bar (The Barn Light East) in Eugene Oregon on 4-9-16. The event was moderated by Rick Reeves, Pastor of Gospel Community Church.
Feel free to leave a thoughtful comment. Comments that have name-calling, cussing, etc. will be deleted.
More info about the speakers:
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Ronny Gogan:
Ronny, formally an athiest, converted to Christianity 7 years ago. His conversion has led to a deep love for apologetics and debating the truth he now believes. Ronny recently moved to Springfield, OR from Reno, NV. He serves in the military and is a member of Gospel Community Church.
Bernie Dehler:
Bernie was raised as a Roman Catholic, and became a born-again Christian in 1984. After 25 years as a growing evangelical Christian, Bernie became an atheist in 2007. Since then he has debated numerous Christian pastors, professors, and ministry leaders of all denominations. He is also the author of the booklet "Modern Science and Philosophy Destroy Theology" : www.tinyurl.com/SciPhil . Bernie has a electronics engineering degree and a masters in ministry seminary degree.
Pastor Rick Reeves:
Rick grew up in Roseburg, OR and moved to Reno, NV in 2007. He spent the next 8 years in Reno, and it was there he met my wife and had their first child. While in Reno, Rick was a Family Pastor for a church called Living Stones but also felt a call to plant a church in Oregon, specifically in Eugene. In 2010 the Living Stones elders affirmed his desire to plant a church and the Reeves family spent 5 years preparing for their move. In February 2015, the The Reeves were finally able to move to Eugene to begin planting their new church, and on October 11, 2015 Gospel Community Church had its first official meeting.
Links:
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[1] Bernie's booklet "Modern Science and Philosophy Destroy Theology" www.tinyurl.com/SciPhil
[2] Gospel Community Church: www.gcceugene.com/

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2 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 83

@spacedoohicky 8 лет назад

Bernie you are such a kind, and caring person. I see that more every time I watch these debates of yours.

@berniedehler5194 8 лет назад

+spacedoohicky , thanks! I think it is just a matter of education. I'm trying to help people so they can have a better life, of living in reality rather than delusion.

@spacedoohicky 8 лет назад

***** That I think is a good cause.

@russelld2925 8 лет назад

+Bernie Dehler In future discussion/debates I wonder if you could focus more on ancient Jewish cosmology ideas. Genesis separates itself from from our modern view of the world in the very first chapter. day and night existing independent of the Sun. a flat Earth. a solid Dome above the Earth to hold back the waters. the Stars sun and moon placed in the firmanent. foundations in the Deep. etc... these are all things in the very first chapter of the Bible where Christians claim to get their knowledge. But are completely contradictory to everything we know. I think Christians are so used to skipping right past these verses without truly comprehending them that they are not well prepared in answering these hard questions. but if you are going to literally believe the Bible you have to believe in a flat Earth.

@russelld2925 8 лет назад

+Bernie Dehler especially when arguing against presuppositionalists. these biblical mistakes undermine their entire Foundation.

@russelld2925 8 лет назад

+Bernie Dehler Also, your opponent kept on stating that human well-being is irrelevant without a belief in God. "Who cares about human suffering or well-being?" he asked. As atheists we CAN account for the value of it. You talked about consequences being important. True, but to go one level deeper...survival is the ultimate accounting. We all have an innate desire to survive. Human happiness and well-being is strived for as a result of our desire to survive. We survive longer and better when we are happy and healthy and not suffering.

@crazyprayingmantis5596 7 лет назад

Let's first define what people are referring to when they say the word God, before we ask if it exists. I'm yet to hear a coherent explanation of what God is, normally people just say he's a spirit and I'm still none the wiser, what's a spirit and why does it have a gender? Normally then I get... a spirit is something that's non material. So I ask Is there any way of detecting this non material thing? At this point things get weird answers get vague and metaphysical gobbledegook language gets rife. So anyone reading this and thinks they know what God actually is, I'm all ears.

@TheJohannes44 8 лет назад

For those who do not yet know: the answer to the question: "can you be wrong about everything you (think) you know?" is "no".

@ronaldgogan3437 8 лет назад

Thank you Bernie for the video. It looks awesome and I enjoyed the debate. Maybe we can do another one in the future with a more focused topic. Thanks for coming down and engaging in public debate.

@berniedehler5194 8 лет назад

+ronald gogan , I also enjoyed meeting you, your Pastor, and church members.

@berniedehler5194 8 лет назад

+ronald gogan wrote: " Maybe we can do another one in the future with a more focused topic. " Sounds good to me!

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

Atheists believe in magical matter.

@ErixMarcanoRivera 8 лет назад

Thank you Bernie.

@1969JohnnyM 8 лет назад

In the past, people whenever I hear people like Kirk Cameron who claim to have gone from atheism to theism I tend to think its bull crap and they are more trying to dishonestly portray that Theism is the logical conclusion to come to as lets face it they have no scientific basis to think so hence the need for faith.

@ronaldgogan3437 8 лет назад

"cough cough" Antony Flew "cough"

@chrisbay6672 6 лет назад

This must be a christian crowd, they think that every stupid rote presup talking point is HILARIOUS. How do they not see how circular and ridiculous these points are? 1:21:40 "my circular reasoning is a virtuous circle" HAHAHAHAHa

@DigiUllmark 8 лет назад

@ronald gogan I've always wondered how the presuppositionalist solves the problem of hard solipsism? I would be very appreciative if you could help me understand this.

@peterwyetzner5276 8 лет назад

I think these debates would be clarified if they were asked to avoid using words like "just" or "merely", because asking if the brain is just a chemical reaction privileges one answer over the other. What's wrong with it being a chemical reaction?

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

Personal revelation isn't evidence to show another person (a changed life is evidence) but the fact that you are significantly sequenced to be a human instead of a squirrel is evidence that you were made to exist by your Maker.

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

Because someone, "believes in evolutionism", isn't evidence of anything other than that they are object credit givers.

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

"Creation is evident." That means there is evidence of Creation. In fact, you are the observable evidence that you were made to exist.

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

You can't possibly know the age of the universe because there was no time until it was made and expanded with the expansion of space. So there is no absolute measure of time or distance in the universe.

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

It's not disgusting to confess the truth. Not confessing the truth is the worst crime there is. Salvation is through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth to begin with.

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

Neanderthals are human. Eurasians have Neanderthal DNA. Let that fact sink in.

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

"Creation is evident." That means there is evidence of everything

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

Come to think of it, there are no atheists because everyone has a belief, if not, there's nothing they can tell us.

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

Mormon deviation from truth is irrelevant.

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

The Bible God made everything we see.

@saynotodogma7776 8 лет назад

Could God reveal something to a person such that they could have absolute certainty? The answer should be, No. Because even if god existed and revealed things to a person that person would still have to evaluate that knowledge through a subjective perspective, and being subjective you don't have all knowledge, and as Sye Tyn would say, if you don't know everything, you can't know anything for certain.. An additional problem is that, by definition, you don't know what you don't know, and as long as that is true (which it true for all subjective individuals) A person can only know one thing for certain, and the only thing you can know is 'I know that I think'.. Outside of that everything is necessarily on a scale of certainty.

@frankwhelan1715 7 лет назад

Saynotodogma,Yes, but if God actually existed, and is what is claimed by believers,(omniscient omnipotent ect)it should be veryeasy for him to show that he IS God.

@JungleJargon 8 лет назад

Evolution is not fact and evolution is not science. Evolution is a belief that mindless matter is magically able to make a mind. Think about it.

@SecHummer 8 лет назад

Please watch this to learn about the evidence for evolution, in DNA alone: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--rFoZyHISWU.html

@123keepitsimple97 8 лет назад

Oy vey! Around 16 minutes Bernie ask " what's your best evidence for God " the theist response is lacking to say the least - 😧 - I can't watch anymore these debates are always the same. It's like watching a dog Chase his tail, he'll never catch the damn tail. These Christians are atheists against all past gods, today's gods and any other gods. ... yada yada... I've always respected theist that have told me that they don't have objective evidence for their clams and most importantly, they could be wrong. it's just something that makes them feel good to believe and...

@SecHummer 8 лет назад

RE: "I've always respected theist that have told me that they don't have objective evidence for their clams and most importantly, they could be wrong." Good start. Next question might be to ask them what it would take to change their mind, and then see if that thing is true.

@ronaldgogan3437 8 лет назад

Evidence is useless if we do not discuss how we interpret the evidence. Evidence does not speak. A bone in the ground doesn't say, "sup dude, I have been here for thousands of years." That not how this works its not how any of this works. Psychology talks about schemas (while this is a secular idea it may help) that we update and adapt as we come into contact with more experiences or when our ideas about the world change. These schemas will determine how we interpret evidence. Because you seek to deny the existence of God all evidence will be interpreted in that light and because I believe in God all evidence will also be interpreted according to my existing schemas. So why not talk about these bottom axioms that we hold as foundational. I know it hurts sometimes to think about thinking, but I guarantee it will get you further than discussing evidence.

@alanmurray5963 3 года назад

Bernie Dehler RIP

@darkloki1 8 лет назад

At +16:00 , you can see Ronny Gogan is off his script because he is answering questions.... that's a big presupp no-no. If you notice within 30 seconds, Ronny stumbles as he realizes Bernie can nail him on the baseless assertions....so he has to go into the script and start with the burden shifting, question dodging, and word games.

@ronaldgogan3437 8 лет назад

You know I actually answer this question if you continue to watch the rest of the debate 22:00. I said that evidence itself is not sufficient in determining whether or not God exist because of the way in which we look at the evidence and therefor it is much better to discuss our pressupositions before we discuss our evidence. I will admit I was scrambling a bit when he asked me that, mostly because that was my first debate ever so I had never been cross examined before ha ha. I did answer the question if you continue to watch though.

@darkloki1 8 лет назад

_"You know I actually answer this question if you continue to watch the rest of the debate __22:00__. I said that evidence itself is not sufficient in determining whether or not God exist because of the way in which we look at the evidence and therefor it is much better to discuss our pressupositions before we discuss our evidence"_ No, you didn't. It's a commom Presupp. *dodge* to say "well we can't look at the evidence unless we examine are presuppositions". Why is it a dodge? Because the presupper has effectively avoided answering the question directly and attempts to shift the topic onto the Atheists epistomology. This allows the presupper. to ask one of their script questions, such as "Could you be wrong about everything you claim to know". Most people (atheists included), unknowingly will answer that question honestly, not knowing how dishonest and disingenuous the Pressup. argument is. After he/she answers the question, the pressupper. can sit back and just ask "How do you know that?"... or say "but you could be wrong about that". This is often done when the atheist attempts to question the presupper. and pin them down on their bald assertions. It's nothing more than a set up for a dodge the presupper can use for the rest of the debate.

@ronaldgogan3437 8 лет назад

I get it now, apparently epistemology isn't important to you.

@darkloki1 8 лет назад

ronald gogan I get in now, you are refusing to address my criticisms and are resorting Ad Hominems. I will accept that as a concession. Thank you for your time.

@ronaldgogan3437 8 лет назад

Would you seriously sit there and argue with someone about the evidence for for magical genies holding all of matter that is in existence together instead of gravity or do you think a better idea might be to examine the foundations of their beliefs about the world. You could discuss the finer points of the law and theory of gravity and in the end they can always find someway in which they can perform a mental gymnastic in order to fit into their already existing schemas about the world. This is why pressupostions are so crucial in discussions and someone who so flippantly ignores them is not a critical thinker. That is not an ad hominem it is the truth, you are just refusing to think hard about all these beliefs that you have been taking for granted all your life instead of asking and answering hard questions. If I am wrong prove it to me don't just throw out the ad hominem attack on me that I am ad hominem attacking you . I have dropped the gauntlet, pick it up man. I promise to be just as gracious as I was with Bernie if you are willing to have a conversation.