METAs - gets you wondering man what does anybody deserve, truly Join this channel to get access to perks: / @metasmetas Subscribe to the Channel ru-vid.com?... Follow my Twitter / furtherpower Music Links- ask me later lol
O btw just to give me some grace on the religious symbolism and ideas. when I did my research for the idea of “hell” I came to find out it’s a very hyper contentious argument
One thing to consider about real world hell is that, if you're not with God... where else would you go? There is no "neutral" either, if you aren't with God, if you aren't with life, goodness, and righteousness, then you are with death, sadness, and despair. You refused him, maybe even rejected him etc etc in your life, you had your many chances, you had your whole life to make the choice... "I place before you life and death... to live choose life" (Deuteronomy 30:19) and if you choose death, and sadness.. God simply respects your free will.
@@Voujou.but it’s not really a choice. If I point a gun at your head and say if you don’t give me all your money I’ll kill you. Then you don’t and you die. Did you really have a choice? If the rober goes to court and says he had a choice then he’s let free. Was that right? Then he continues to do this. Edit: Also you can’t choose what you believe so that makes it even less of a choice. You also have thousands of other religions to choose from so if you land in hell it’s not your fault. It’s not a choice at all .
@@JustAStickmanI mean, that really depends on whether or not he would still kill you if you gave him the money. Also that scenario obviously wouldn't be right because it involves a criminal killing someone. If it was instead a judge offering the choice between a complete pardone or prolonged torture until death, then that would be fine. Also you absolutely can choose what you believe. People aren't robots, they have free will.
I guess I am the one who will be different from everyone else While definitely not certified to answer this I would say from others I’ve heard an infinite punishment would be justified by offending and infinite authority. Obviously if you were to lie to a sibling as supposed to your parent or someone significantly older you would have a bigger punishment that would scale to the authority. A god of infinite authority like God would be justified in the infinite punishment by this logic then. Summary: offending an equal has a less harsh punishment compared to offending an authority due to the difference in authority. A being of infinitely higher authority would then by that have an infinitely greater punishment.
But based of what you said. It’s their fault if they don’t go to heaven since they had a life time to choose. But it wouldn’t be their fault it would be the gods fault since they created the system and they created the person knowing damn well they’d end up in hell. Try believing in Santa or the boogeyman. A choice isn’t even a choice, for example if you have kids that’s because your genes made you want to re produce so you didn’t even have free will. We have something close to free will but still pretty different. The reason I want to have kids is because I’m programmed to have that desire and have kids. The reason you are talking to me is because we humans are programmed to be social creatures and need social interaction. We also have to factor in luck everything is luck. The reason you’re here right now is because you somehow beat over a thousand sperm cells in a race that’s just one example of luck controlling everything. The reason you do stuff is because of a situation that happened that you had no control over. The reason a large percentage of abused people commit crimes is because they were abused before. Did they choose to commit those crime yes but their choice was completely because of a situation they had no control over. Even though that’s not an excuse for committing a crime.
Diavolo's death loop was never about him getting what he deserved for being a bad guy; with him receiving the power to skip over any inconvenience in his future he was able to avoid his fated death for his whole life and reach levels of power that should be unattainable. He thought himself above fate and as if he was chosen to rule over everyone else, and just when he thought he had reached ultimate victory, fate humbled him through G.E.R. by showing him the true inevitability of the path laid out for him; after avoiding death countless times fate balances it out by sending him into an infinite loop of the death. Better late than never, in a way.
countless? diavolo likely didnt even use king crimson 1000 times. why should diavolo be punished for using an ability that fate gave him?? dio did the same thing with time stop, so should dio also be eternally tortured?
@@Jeff_Biden You missed the point. He thought himself above fate because he could control the outcome of his fate however he liked, but just like he was given that power by causality it can also be taken away, and thats the lesson he learned in that loop. Idk what Dio has to do with this, he was literally obssessed about showing people the fate they were going to live and wanting them to accept it (heaven)
@@Jeff_Bidenthink about it like this, Dio’s time stop didn’t let him control fate. He could somewhat avoid it, but in the end when his time came his death was inevitable. But diavolo could always skip his fated death. He had the power to override fate and mess up the fate ordained by the universe. The only reason he lost was his over confidence as had he stopped giorno the moment he had the chance to, he might have beeen able to skip his death till he died of old age. But he didn’t, and so the universe and fate took the chance to punish him for going against all that had been ordained.
@@Jeff_Biden Time Stop and Time Erasure are fundamentally different. DIO can still be hurt in stopped time, while Diavolo literally exempts himself from fate when activating his ability, becoming immune and intangible to his destiny.
I think a more fair version of his fate would be if GE:R trapped him in a loop where he experiences every death he's ever been responsible for, whether directly or indirectly, from the POV of the people (or hell, even animals since Araki's made it very clear animals have souls) that he kilIed, and eventually was allowed to pass on after, IDK, Narancia, that random dude he threw into the line of bulIets, or Bucciarati I think.
Imagine at one point he actually gets free from the loop for whatever reason and hes so traumatized he becomes a good guy out of gratitude for the new life/opportunity he was given to live
Theoretically, there are an equally infinite amount of deaths that are both torturous or one where he dies after a long life of success and happiness. It's just the eventual trauma would make it insufferable regardless I expect. Depends how long it takes to reach those 'normal life' type deaths.
@@kilzfordays Im not sure but doesnt the deathloop place him close to his death point? I read it in some comment so it might be false but that would make all of his "living a good life" scenarious pretty much impossible
I can imagine Diavolo developing different personalities in order to cope with the death loop, like for example a masochist personality that actually loves dying
@@kilzfordays i can imagine old diavolo lying down on a bed surrounded by his loved ones and his grandchildren, only to die and be reincarnated into the worst universe ever. 😂 "Oh FUCKKKK. NOT AGAIN"
In 2019 they asked Araki if this punishment was too much for Diavolo and he answered " Forgive me, really. But Diavolo is so evil and brought so much pain that he deserved nothing else but that end. In any case, sorry "
Honestly I feel that response. He brought me so much pain over what happened to Bruno so I agree with Araki. Can’t see him getting another ending I’d be happy with 😭
i was there when that question was asked! it went like this: an audience member asked "isn't diavolo's death...too much?" and Araki said "my japanese fans ask me this question constantly...and (what op's comment says), but...i am sorry, really." the interpreter that translated the interaction between Araki and us the audience really did well in conveying that Araki was sorry, but we could also tell from Araki's tone and the pauses between his words, and the way he nodded his head as he spoke. What i'm trying to say is that, he did take the question seriously, and the care with which he said he was sorry truly did convey that he thought about whether it was the right choice or not. especially because of the way he paused when saying that his japanese fans always ask him that question. sorry for the long comment but the entire event was such a fun episode in my life, i love talking about it
Kishimoto writing Naruto: This villain will suffer a death loop until he regrets his actions and comes out as a better person. Araki writing Jojo: ETERNAL SUFFERING
I agree, i wish there were more people like him in the dragon ball series. All most fans talk about is the power scaling but everybody ignores the characters and how that impact the way the stories move forward. If only dragon ball fans could read😢
@@justiceiria869 As a Dragon Nuts DeeZ fan I can confirm that I am illiterate, have no friends, pull zero bitches, have no money and only think about big oily buff men
Requiem stands always give you what you desire most Polnareff wanted to keep the arrow from Diavolo but deep down he also wanted a new body because his own was crippled, so Silver Chariot Requiem switches bodies, accomplishing both his immediate and subconscious desires. This means that what Giorno wanted most when he grabbed that arrow, from the bottom of his heart, at a subconscious level, was for Diavolo to go to hell. It's why we see Dio(God) in him right before he dispenses punishment. In that moment Giorno reflects a God that hates. It's not just Giorno at his lowest point, it's the darkest desire that has ever been portrayed in JoJo's. Giorno won the fight but it was not a triumph. He lost most of his friends and by the end he did something even more evil than Diavolo.
I actually did not know that Requiem stands give you what you desire. That honestly makes hypothesizing what other stands Requiem versions are easier! Awesome analysis!
As evil as Diavolo was, I don't think he deserves the infinite death loop. Yes he had committed atrocities before but it's not like he wiped out the entire civilization or anything. IMO death penalty or multiple death penalties is the way for Diavolo. If anyone had to endure the infinite death, it's Cioccolata and Angelo
@@Cookedmaruchan Cioccolata most definitely deserved what he got. All the things he did were so heinous that even Diavolo thought he was a monster. I’d argue he deserved worse as death was too good for the monster.
Diavolo as his name imply was evil incarnate. It is fitting he rots in his personal hell forever. Also remember the countless italians ruined by his organization and the drugs he selled.
To be fair, Giorno didn't know what he did when he did it. Then again, he didn't care after it, would have done it anyway, and Stands' abilities fit their user's soul.
We all know araki was going through some stuff, that fact he dropped fugo being a traitor because he couldn't go through that heartache proves that, i wonder if diavolo's fate was because of araki's mental state causing Araki to dish out a worse fate then he would have normally recieved
I never saw Fugo as a traitor, because for me is an opposite to popular shonen trope when character risk their life to do heroic stuff. Fugo is too inteligent for doing that.
Araki writes with a constant theme of karmic retribution and fate, to the point where stand users inevitably have their fates collide. Its not about "deserved" punishment, King Crimson's time skip is a violation of the core rule of JoJo's. This was his fate no matter how much he tried to skip it. Edit: Also with this logic, why does Kars deserve to be frozen in space for an indeterminate amount of time? Why did Pucchi deserve to be erased from existence when he got Weather Reported? Arguably every single villain in the series finds themselves in a horrific situation by which fate achieves some sort of karmic retribution.
I mean being erased from reality and no longer being able to think is just death like atheists imagine it to be so it’s not really that bad and if kars manages to land on a planet that supports life he will eventually come back, whereas diavolo is reliving every death imaginable, infinitely
Yeah, Kira got dragged to hell, Dio with awakened power with limitless potential of stopping time, got bodied because he is too arrogant... Heck he even got locked for years inside the coffin 😂
Diavolo’s fate is far worse because it is infinite he will suffer the fates of all the Jojo villains, then again but slightly different, and then again with major changes + infinite deaths
@@Overdrive-_- Ngl how are we sure that Diavolo aren't the original one? He clearly is the one to get to clap a girl's cheeks resulting a Trish. And took the photos at the beach, he even said "It was ME who took the photos" Doppio is said to be "too young to have kids" by the fortune teller
@@METAsMETAsi think div’s was just. He could have used his ability to help others for good, or change their fate for the better, but instead trampled over others fate for his own gain. By GER saying he would never reach the truth, he would experience death over and over again for constantly running away from his fate instead of attempting to change it for the better, and as mentioned for trampling on anyone who got in his way. Fate this time fucked him over Personally I also believe every dio, Kira, div, and father pucci should have got what div got at their crimes.
Kars’ fate felt much more satisfying anf deserving than Diavolo’s, not only because of the evil he committed, but because he brought it entirely on himself in his hunger for unlimited power. If you ask me, Diavolo would deserve to go out the way Dio did, in a way that is fitting but not more cruel than he has been.
Going off of the Christian Bible, blasphemy is considered the one unforgivable sin. Diavolo’s whole gimmick is that he tries to escape and control fate. And I’d argue that controlling fate would probably be this universe’s version of blasphemy towards fate, and therefore an unforgivable sin. We’ve already seen how much fate dislikes people who desire to control it. Kars gets sent to space where he spends the rest of the universe’s life frozen. Kira got dragged away in the ghost alley after using Bites the Dust. Pucci dies to a child after resetting the universe.
What is very cool is that the common throughline for the parts 4 to 6-villains that managed to hijack fate(or in the case of Diavolo, evade its effect) is that they only failed because of growing an ego bigger than their heads. Kira specifically would have auto-won if he just didn't do anything, but his compulsion to always be in the driver seat and gloat about it bit him in the end.
As a Christian I really like the overlapping of Christianity in JOJO's. Part 7 Christ's "Corpse Parts" became my number #1 part in JOJO. Thinking Jesus had a stand power is dope. To the Diavolo discussion, Hell wasn't created for humans. As it was stated it's inconceivable to think about being subjected to punishment forever. I don't think he deserved it but he had it coming.
In all honesty, Diavolos infinite death loop is essentially hell, which is where he probably would have ended up anyways. I just dont like how a human like Giorno has the power to do that to someone cause it could brry easily be abused
It's nice to see a fellow Christian's outlook on this. And I agree. I won't go into theological stuff here, because I am not qualified for it and I don't fully understand many things myself. Have a great day/night!
@@gilgameshthetreasurehunter2750 yeah diavolo more or less experienced hell, and I'm just as griped with the fact that Giorno was the one who ultimately judged Diavolo's fate though through GER. But then again Giorno is an allegory for Jesus so maybe it's ok? idk lol
A theory I have is that Doppio/Diavolo’s being due to a Stand Ability. From what we know about his birth, he was conceived in the span of a day, with his mom saying his father was long dead. So what if his father had a stand ability that allowed him to transfer his consciousness via his seed, which would have a time lock effect. So Diavolo would be the father using his son’s body. But that’s just me.
I love that people are still debating this topic years later. It really shows how many layers there are to Part 5's ending. On the one hand, Giorno and Diavolo are clearly an allegory for Jesus and the Devil. King Crimson attempts to circumvent fate; GER shows him that his actions will always catch up to him. Thematically, it's a perfect fate for Diavolo. On the other hand... I agree with everything you said about infinite punishment; it's always been my biggest gripe with a lot of religions' afterlives. Even setting aside the question of "infinite crimes," it inherently excludes the possibility of redemption. Not every criminal can realistically be rehabilitated, but I believe that path should never be closed and it's up to them whether to take it or not. More than anything, though, it's fascinating what this moment says about Giorno's strengths and flaws as a character. He's determined, he's strong-willed, he's empathetic, he genuinely wants to help people. But he's also ruthless and vengeful, and has an almost childishly black-and-white view of morality despite many of his own actions being quite gray. He's exactly the type of person who would be drawn to the idea that the people he loves are at peace and happy forever in heaven, while those he (very understandably) hates are reaping what they've sown in hell. It's just a headcanon of mine, but I think that in that moment, after confronting so many evil men in his life, some of whom he was powerless to stop on his own, and staring down the man who murdered his friends, Giorno only wanted two things: to undo all the damage he had caused, and to make that motherfucker SUFFER. Not even GER could raise the dead, but punishing the wicked... oh, yes, it could do that.
Kinda offtopic, but tbh, I always kinda wondered about the "you cannot raise the dead"-thing. Because the thing is...one technically absolutely can because they already did multiple times. The biggest question is if there is like, an unknown stand that can summon souls from the afterlife like a spirit board in some other stories can. If yes, then one could even get to a point of at least middling reliability by combo-ing it with a stand like Crazy Diamond that can revert a body's destruction.
What's funny is that Giorno - by putting Diavolo into this eternal death loop - committed an absolutely unjust deed, far worse than anything Diavolo could've ever done. Technically, by causing this infinite amount of deaths and suffering, Giorno would actually deserve to be punished and subjected to this exact kind of eternal damnation as it would be the more just and proportional retribution for what he has committed
As a catholic and someone that has gone to church and catholic school my whole life, i completely agree with what you are saying and so do a bunch of other catholics, i don't think hell exsits because of the infinate cruelty it brings. I think there is nothing anyone can possibly do that would deserve that level of punishment.
Catholics don’t believe anyone is predestined to go to hell, Hell is absolutely acknowledged in the Catholic Church and doctrine Div’s life and actions lead him to his fate, and instead of acknowledging his actions and changing himself, he abused the fates of others to constantly run away from his and for his own gain
There's a difference between not wanting to be punished anymore and feeling guilty. That alone causes your argument to fail. There are people that will never feel guilt for any of their actions, no matter what. And that fits Diavolo's case perfectly. Diavolo is incapable of feeling guilt. No matter what happens to him In fact, this creates a logical bind in your argument, because a person capable of feeling guilt would, by nature of the guilt associated with the actions Diavolo committed, would feel eternal guilt for them and would be punished by their own guilt.
Tbh it doesn't crumble bis argument. Bc many people do not want to get punished, even those who feel guilt. Who would want that? There is also the thing, evil in humanity isn't born, it's made. Bc fade is something that twists the mind of humans.
When you look at it through the context of JoJo and how fate works in JoJo. Diavolo did deserve it. He ran a mafia that was directly and indirectly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people (overdoses, assassinations, bystanders caught in the crossfires of fights with users like Chocolata and Notorious B.I.G left in the ocean), attempted murdering his own daughter, and arson. All that alone would be worth a death penalty. However when you add into the context of how KC allowed him to skip fate and overcome his fated deaths he acted as though he was over god which in JoJo is pretty much fate. It is because of that very act of trying to surpass God (Fate) that he deserved it. Fate sides with the path of Justice and therefore God sides with Justice. Regardless of your religion, or vision of the Bible the act of acting higher than god is punishable for eternity. Fate caught up to Diavolo and punished him for eternity because no one is above Fate aside from Giorno who was given the power of God and is technically Fate. The only thing higher than fate or God in JoJo is calamity which is a different story entirely, but it should be said that the idea for Calamity wasn’t a concept until the SBR universe so it doesn’t really factor into part 5.
I would argue that an infinite punishment could only be justified by an infinite crime, or something infinity adjacent, such as destroying a time stream, or something beyond thar.
If you think about it, every crime is infinite, because it continues on for the rest of history. For example, let’s say I get with my best friends girlfriend, and they were gonna get married. Not only have, I basically killed all the children that they would’ve had children that their children would’ve had and so on and so forth. Even something like throwing away litter, could have infinite bad things happen because of it.
@@RennHans that's more a hypothetical then actually a crime. What if they were to break up instead of you breaking them up? Would that be considered a infinite crime to end a relationship?
@@RennHans You could say the same about abortion. Or contraception. Or refusing someone's advances at all. If you map out the consequences of any actions up to infinity forward, you're gonna end up with crazy results. And it would still probably cap out at the point humanity itself dies.
Not at all, Kira got of super easy. Sure, he no longer has Killer Queen and is a ghost, but he's rid of his hand fetish urge and can finally live a quiet life like he always wanted, free of his past crimes and redeemed as a detective. Nowhere close to infinite deaths.
I think Diavolo is way more evil than Kira. He kept his mother under the floor and when she got discovered by one person he murdered entire village. Also having a Cioccolata on his payroll just seals the deal. And Kira just kills women from time to time. Not to defend him, but at least he didn't burn entire Morioh after he was discovered
Nah, Diavolo deserves it more than Kira. Kira just picked and choose some people to kill because they where annoying or he liked their hands. Diavolo committed genocide on his whole town, gave DIO and Enya the proper tools to end/ruin even more lives, and created a large drug empire that not only kills people from the affects on health but also people who try to find his identity. Kira’s an irritating person compared to Diavolo.
@@Acym_I agree, as I mentioned in another comment, he could have used his ability to change the fates of others for the good, but instead trampled on the fates of others for his own gain. He 100% got what he deserved
For one, awesome video! Two, I love the fact that you used some tracks from Risk of Rain 2: SOV for background music. Not only is it a banger of a soundtrack, it even fits in with the theme of the deathloop. In a few logbook entries in the game, it discusses a place called the Simulacrum, where the people trapped by creatures from the Void, a place seemingly outside of time, are contained for study by a godlike entity know as the Voidling. The Simulacrum is basically like the infinite death loop, where those inside are to survive for as long as they can before they die, either to monsters or the elements, and are then brought back, still aware of what has transpired. If i remember the logbook, correctly the people being studied are actually in a comatose, vegetative state while the Voidling is probing their minds, and the experience of the Simulacrum is actually just a method of studing how whatever being is trapped will respond to stimuli. And, as a little bit of extra flavor, the Voidling's theme "Face of the Deep" (which METAs used at 0:42), is actually a line out of the bible, connecting a bit with the concept of Diavolo's punishment being practically Hell
I agree that eternal punishment is excessive. It could be argued that killing someone erases their infinite potential, and Diavolo killed alot of people. Also, Diavolo sold the arrow to Dio essentially and spurred on all the mischief they caused. It would be interesting if at a certain point in the death loop when he loses his mind from insanity that he just starts over in life, and is given a chance to do right without memory of what he did in his past life, lest he end up repeating what led him to his defeat at the hands of Giorno or redeeming himself.
Now you made me think it would be cool if Diavolo appeared in a different manga, similar to Kira being the protagonist in a dead man's questions. In said manga at the end of chapter 1 we are told the protagonist, who is a ghost, is actually Kira and does not remember how he'd die
For me, I feel as though Araki was thinking big picture when it came to Diavolos actions. Everything that he does, it's all in the quest of simultaneously denying his own existence while also positioning himself as the controller of fate. And when it comes to the power of his Stand, I can understand why Araki chose an infinite death. Because the very nature of King Crimson time skip erases a piece of something from the world itself. Not being able to see a child be born, a star in the world fizzles out, a budding flower suddenly blooms, it robs the world of it's own natural progression and beyond that, Diavolo himself is completely free to act as he pleases, completely removed from the world itself. I believe when looked at from that perspective of cosmic scrweyness that is his ability, that Fate itself would enact a fitting toll. It reminds me a bit of how when Pucci reset the universe, everyone else had their path preordained for them that they had no choice but to go down, except for Pucci himself. Pucci became the single individual prime number and became a walking outlier in his own new world. It is similar to what Diavolo wanted in being the one absolutely controls Fate, becoming beyond it's reach and untouchable and immortal, while still being an agent or force in the world that rules the underbelly of human interactions. He wants no connections, yet will not wear a rubber. He sees himself as championed by and being beyond fate, yet goes out to extremes to be protective of himself and avoid all kinds of confrontations possible. It's almost fitting that it's his own daughter calling out his actions that he actually tries to confront a fow directly and ends up costing him everything.
talking about Pucci the only reason he was defeated was solely on him, Emporio was fated to go the room, however because you can do action that are slightly different as long as you follow your fated path Pucci punched the CD in Emporio allowing him to use Weather Report. By being so stubborn about Emporio he caused his own downfall.
I don't know what it was, if the editing or the concept of the video if not even both, but this video was great. Please do more content like this it's really good
Diavolo actually kinda reminds me of Qilby from Wakfu, a pure evil monster who gets punished with a fate worse than death. I actually didnt realize Diavolo was this bad until this video, but nah he still doesn't deserve infinite punishment.
In Qilby's case, even if they just killed him it wouldn't do any good since he keeps memories of past lives and was given several chances to stop until exiling him was the last possible option.
@@Truck-kun11 I didn't even remember that in the story, one of Qilby's powers is keeping all his memories of his past lives, that makes Yugo trapping him in the void and even better ending than I thought.
The whole Christianity thing caught me off guard, but I do appreciate it being paid attention to because of the references in Jojo, even it is few and far between Now, about the whole "God would never punish someone eternally because no crime is worth such a fate", there is something we call an Unforgivable Sin. This sin is described as full blown blasphemy against the Holy Spirit specifically. Jesus warns the Pharisees about this when they said that His power was not from the Holy Spirit but from the demon Beelzebub, and He rebuked them, saying you can blaspheme against the Son or the Father, but to blaspheme the Holy Spirit warrants no forgiveness, no mercy. The reasoning is because no matter how evil one is, if they are made aware of God and Jesus' teachings they can still feel remorse and repent, and be forgiven of all sins by Jesus, no matter how great it is. If you blaspheme the spirit, however, it would require you to willingly turn you back against it of your own volition, which is a sign that you will never repent, and never honor God, and thus cannot be forgiven. The definition of blaspheme in this case is still a bit murky from me, but if you like do something bad, and you feel remorse or you ae religious you worry Jesus is angry with you, that's actually a good sign because you haven't turned your back from Him at that point, meaning you are safe. It doesn't justify all the other sins you could commit willy nilly, but that's the gist of it. An interesting thing, Hell is actually MERCY to sinners because if they ever go to Heaven and meet God, their sins would burn up in His presence and take their souls with them, effectively burning them more than actual hellfire and even erasing them from existence. That's why Jesus cleanses sins by Himself or through Purgatory depending on what you believe, before the soul enters. That's also the reason mere glimpses of God's light can inflict blindness that could last forever if a servant of God doesn't heal it in His name, as with what happened with Paul the Apostle Edit: Ok, i know this is long already, but I have thought about it, and it kinda makes sense. I feel, the more fitting recipient of the death loop(besides Cioccollatta) is Pucci. Think about it, he is a priest, a sworn servant of God, but he fell from grace the moment he met DIO. He had homosexual relations, equated his love for sio to that of God, and done numerous crimes that did not suit a priest at all. The kicker comes in when Made in Heaven is activated. Idk if the Bible plays out the same in jojo same way, but this is essentially pucci hijacking God's own plan, while making it seem like it was His will for it to happen. Given that he dies by Emporio just before he reaches Cape Canaveral, he would be stuck in a constant loop where he never reaches an end, while also not knowing what fate lies before him like what he wanted to achieve. If you switch their deaths, it gets that karmic justice that jojo is known for; Diavolo is erased from existence after a long time of remaining hidden, and pucci suffers infinitely because he not only tried to end the universe on his terms, but also cannot know what will happen next. It would be more a consequence of his actions than a punishment
If i literally don't think god exists, simply because no evidence has been strong enough to convince me, or if i was misguided by an outside influence, and i blaspheme. Is that really justification for the most unimaginably cruel and horrific punishment imaginable?
@@Hostefar No, if you go through your whole life not knowing about God or His teachings you'll either spend double that life in Purgatory or you'll be put on the waiting line of Heaven, which is basically the same thing You can't really blaspheme something you don't believe in, it'll be like telling a woman she has a small pp, which is factually incorrect and is also stupid
(Respectfully) seems kinda dumb when this "all perfect, loving, and knowing god" sacrificed itself to appease itself so it could change its own rules (which were supposedly perfect but had to change from old to new?) just so it could send a 1/3 of itself to sacrifice its weekend to "rid of us our sins" but apparently not the "original sin" which caused humanity to age and die. Arguing for a religion held together by pasta noodles seems rather preposterous but hey 🤷♀
@@RatQueen64 Well the rules never eally changed, just the promises are fulfilled. The metaphor is that the price for sin is death, not mortal, but spiritual death, and this was first shown with Abraham being told to sacrifice the goat in place of Isaac, having proven his faith, and then again for the lambs blood during the tenth plague of egypt. God made a promise that until the Messiah arrives they will obey the laws given to them, which now become synonymous with Jewish culture. Now that He has come, His covenant is made anew, allowing non Jews to be with Him. The only rule besides the Ten Commandment was that someone needed to die and go to the dead, and Jesus took the ransom on Himself
I believe that a more justified version of the infinite death loop is one with positive reinforcement. Where if the person in the loop does good deeds, the time between deaths grows longer and longer until they find themselves a changed person without the infinite death loop affecting them any longer.
4:42 Diavolo didn't get requiem, but he used requiem (silver chariot) for his goals, he wounded him, so he couldn't protect the arrow, if connecting requiems to religion, that might be considered as going against the gods, and as in religion, lucifer was sent to hell for eternity (Or in other words, requiem is a god, and just like lucifer, diavolo *tried* to take place of the god, but was sent to hell for the attempt, so i would say it's pretty close to what happened in religion)
Man, i never really put much thought on the infinite death loop, but now that you put it through this philosophical lens, it really is beyond messed up. I do belive that with enough time, anyone can change, so if i had to give my opinion on this is that, like you said, Diavolo will inevitably change after suffering for so long, and at that point, i think he should pass on, i think he should be able to rest after realizing the error of his ways, because after so much punishment, he won't be the same person as when he entered the loop, most likely a person who isn't anywhere close to someone who deserves death, much less infinite of them. Well, sorry for yapping, great video btw.👍
Jesus is in P7. God's name is also Yeshua which can be read as Joshua. There were no last names in that time, so it would be: Jesus, son of Joseph. Joshua, son of Joseph = Jojo Jesus is the 1st Jojo
If you really think about it Diavolo is heavily implied to be a demon or the devil himself. All the way from the split personality thing possibly being posession ( as seen in the change of eye color when he was a baby ) or the fact that he was born in extremely weird circunstances also add to this theory. Furthermore, the whole biblical symbolism of part 5 really sells this idea, from Giorno - "Day" being the son of Dio - "God" and defeating Diavolo - "Devil" and putting him in a state of constant and eternal suffering ( a possible nod to hell ), to his stand's name being King Crimson, and the character of "The Crimson King" beeing oftenly associated with the ruler of hell or demons, or simply a ruthless ruler of sorts ( although it IS more likely that this could be because he is the top of the whole mafia and all ). If you think about it that way, it is a fitting punishment that fate itself would put a literal demon in this state. But yeah if the dude is just a normal guy that's kinda fucked tbh
I believe there good and bad in everyone, some people just choose with path to focus on. Diavolo was an terrible human being, no one can doubt that, but he had some good (maybe being represented by how naive Doppio is? idk). My headcannon is that he just wanted to genuinaly die after so many close death experiences from the dead loop, and the universal reset from Made in Heaven broke this loop and Diavolo finally died. Maybe we gonna see an part of him in JoJolands with Usagi that's his stands name is from an King crimison song. An good part of him for what it seems
@@gabbycal he has, but in Cioccolata's case he was scum so yeah, no one would've been less cruel than Giorno. The most accepted theory about requiem stands is that the arrow gives you what you need most or what you wish for, hence GER is a complete counter to KC so it is not necesaarily because of his soul that such cruel ability manifested. Also, Giorno is kind in some way too sometimes, probably one of the reasons he can give life
@@gabbycal yeah right. I can not deny he is cruel agaisnt his enemies most of the time and cold blooded as well as beind part Dio and Jonathan. in Luca's case it was also because Luca attacked the frog tho, Giorno kind of tries to tell him not to do so
I love how you worded "An eternal punishment is only fit for an infinite crime." because by that logic at some point Diavolo will not deserve the death loop anymore, making Giorno commit an infinite crime if you will, at which point Giorno would be more fit to be in an infinite death loop. Food for thought
Interesting theory but his punishment won't be able to hold since memory has a limit and after that limit you won't be able experience anything anymore so the only thing happening is that someone in a coma is getting killed which he does not perceive. So his pain would eventually stop after roughly 140 years, nowhere near ♾️.
That doesn't make sense. You don't just stop feeling pain. Pain has nothing to do with memory. Also,you don't just stop taking information. His dying is not living an entire life.
@Discodian look, if you have a laptop with 1gb and the storage is full can you feed it info? Newsflash you can't. Although it would take a lot of deaths before he stops perceiving pain it would eventually stop though.
Tbh there are some fictional characters who arguably do deserve it without an infinite crime being caused even if attempted. But in diavolos case id say he deserves closer to the angelo treatment.
I think I remember hearing somewhere that Araki believes Diavolo deserved his punishment. If we go off of that then it makes sense that Diavolo really is a devil of a person and that he wouldn't change. That also leans into the theory of his supposed unnatural birth.
Imma speak some words here Meta's... "There is no good. There is no bad. There is only actions and consuquences fabricated by humanity itself. In the end, WE decide what is justice"
Paradise Lost posits that Lucifer was stuck in hell forever because he would always reject heaven, leaving only hell left. Going by that logic I think Diavolo would deserve the death loop because he would bring it upon himself in perpetuity because he could never accept a being that he could never overcome. He would never show contrition, guilt or remorse which are necessary for forgiveness and redemption which are necessary to leave eternal suffering. TLDR: Diavolo would constantly suffer because of his infinite paranoia and malice he feels about anything that could threaten him. He couldn’t leave the mindset that brought him to the loop.
but does he get to actually live that long life? it seems like diavolo doesn't actually experience the life up until just before the death. like how did he end up on that operating table? he doesn't know or remember.
@@keaton5101 in scene, we can hear the surgeon talking about where the body was found (the place diavolo first died) Edit: Even if his life/memory starts from after his previous death, then going forwards he could try to live out a good life before the inevitable death.
My interpretation of the death loop was that it was partly the product of his own power. He used King Crimson to erase the period of time in which GE:R killed him, which left him in a state where he was always about to die imminently, but it was impossible to actually die because his death had been erased. Going to the point about hell, what happens in JoJo's can actually be read as symbolic for one of the kinder versions of hell (our sins are given new life to burn in hell, while our soul ascends leaving them behind). Arguably, Doppio is the true identity, whereas Diavolo is a dissociative state induced by childhood trauma that he goes into to allow him to do despicable and desperate things. The narrative in part 5 goes out of its way to separate Doppio and Diavolo before the final fight, giving Doppio a clean, if brutal, death. Only Diavolo, who only ever seemed to appear during moments he was committing evil or acts of violence, goes into the loop.
9:10 why you keep putting that short Gaul next to different words? Asterix normally goes next to Obelix, not next to Diavolo's death. I'm sure you can take the aster-risk on the pronunciation of asterisk. I do like your take here, and I appreciate the video and your take on the Diavolo situation. Pretty dang good as always, keep being amazing, Metas!
"diavolo deserved the death loop because he used king crimson to manipulate fate and thought he was above fate!1!!111" wasnt fate... the thing that gave him king crimson??? this is the worst justification for the death loop that ive seen
THANK YOU. That doesn't even make sense. Like here, I'll let you see the future. Just don't misuse it. Bitch fuck you mean misuse it? How does someone misuse controlling fate or seeing the future.
Diovolo will exist for eternity. While he will die and die, he will also still exist. Diovolo (kinda) wanted to live forever, and now he gets to. But, he will die as long as he exists. It is similar to Kars.
It's not your sins that get you sent to hell but what is in your heart. Arrogance, avarice, and selfishness are a disease of the soul that need to be cured before your time is up.
Man theres a theory: at the beginning of Golden Wind GE show us his ability to mess up peoples mind (after landing a punch on Bruno). I guess this "eternal deathloop" thing is just a way to cimpletely destroy sanity of person: there is no countless deaths of Diavolo, only him watching plenty of nightmares while drowning. I mean GER himself said " You will never reach the TRUTH".
Theoretically he eventually got killed by a black hole which took his remains into a different universe which has a different time space. This in a way would free him of the death loop as GER can't influence the time in the other universe.
Like you said, only an infinite crime deserves an infinite punishment. When looking at the punishment that's being dealt, a lot of people (for some reason) only look at what the punished one did to see if they deserve it or not (and often times say that they deserve it, even when they honestly don't), but they never look at what said punishment says about what kind of person THE PUNISHER is. What does it say about Giorno as a person when he sentences a man to die infinitely in a realm of reality that allegedly continued to exist even after the universe had reset twice?
see the problem with that is "THE PUNISHER" is a literal god and has it's own consiousness apart from it's host. GER was controlling giorno at that point LMFAO
Since Diavolo has DID (dissociative identity disorder), its heavily implied that doppio was abused as a child which formed the more stoic and secretive Diavolo which might be why he hates his past and wants to conceal it? I love deciphering the lore of these two.
0:36 first of all, by my knowledge, hell is not eternal punishment, it is eternal agony because the you refused to truly be happy and instead you wanted to live in sin and misery, searching for pleasure. God is good, God is happiness, God is truth, God is the life, God is free will. Where there isn't happiness there is sadness, where is no life there is death, where is no light there is darkness where is no good there is evil. Where heaven isn't, there is hell. God let's us choose between good and evil and is up to us, in this life to choose.
God also nows everything that will happen from beginning to the ends, so he creates being he knows will be miserable, out of his “infinite” love and kindness 🙄
"God is good" until he commits mass murders on his "loved" creations. "God is happiness" until a depressed person goes to hell because they commited self game over. "God is truth" until christians lie about god's supposed "all loving nature". "God is free will" until he has a "plan for you" and lets you be murdered, r@ped, attacked, beat, etc because obviously god intended for that to happen to his "loved" creation. Defending a non-existent character with narcassictic traits isn't cute. You may need to go to a therapist and get diagnosed because this behavior (CLEARLY) isn't normal. Get help. ❤💋
There was a Wojak meme about this very thing. Diavolo: "Even at my worst, I only krumped a finite number of people, that's it. Infinite punishment is infinitely cruel." Giorno: "Die."
I like to think he eventually got out wether or not Giorno let him out eventually or he somehow broke out, i would wanna hope he just would retire and try to live a normal life or try to be a hero to prevent that fate again.
Diavolo didn't deserve such fate. DIO and Cioccolata, on the other hand... By the way, I'm still peeved that DIO got a simple death, while Pucci, the man he corrupted, was pretty much erased from existence.
Well we dont know if he really got erased, Weather is still arounf anf since he and Pucci are twins he'd have to ti be born as well i always assumed Pucci just never met Dio.
In Pucci's case, it was less because he deserved it, and more because there was no other way to defeat him. At the moment of his defeat, he was wielding THE most powerful stand in existence.
