4th gen is still in the rookie years.. the pressure on 3rd gen was somehow similar at the beginning of it... like many 2nd gen stans still hate 3rd gen... it's the grumpy oldie syndrome like how many older people say "back in my day"
I don't think 3rd generation set the standard too high, it's just that they are in a completely different position. BTS and blackpink made kpop an international success, so it's impossible to reach their level, like how du you want a hole world to know a genre if it's already known? because of this a lot of new fans kinda try to compare them, even if it's not comparable which adds a ton of extremely high standards. Look at new debut songs, they are often filmed and composed like a real comeback, leaving almost no room for improvment, leading to fans adding even more pressure to new debuting groups which makes it difficult to try easier concepts like cuter ones since they are not so high in dancing skills/ stage presence
they are still rookies they need to settle done in the industry .. how we compare them to idols who are there for a decade and have way more experience? 3rd gen also was like that in the beginning ..
@@ArielthelittleFISH exactly. BTS was severely underrated, but now they're a staple in kpop. They were actually going to disband, and they made it through that. The fans brought them success, and it takes a LONG time for artists to have that kind of fanbase. BTS is a group that's been in the scene for longer than many og kpop stans thought they would. Twice was also hated on A LOT like ive, called talentless and things like that. Blackpink is the only group that didn't have complete and utter hate or struggle since debut. A lot of groups did. I think a lot of newer stans just need to wait and see what happens. It was the same with 2nd gen, a lot of us did NOT like the 3rd gen at first but now BTS twice and blackpink are regarded as highly as 2ne1, bigbang and SNSD.
I disagree a bit with the take on Itzy. Like sure, in the past couple of years, their songs haven't been reaching the iconic status we all want to expect out of them but early in their career like during their debut Dalla Dalla and especially their most successful comeback Wannabe, they were undeniably ICONIC and took South Korea by storm and internationally were successful with their unique self love concept and Ryujin's shoulder dance move. It's just that now, they have fully changed up their concept(s) and since then have not reached the same level of success in terms of iconic songs ever again, unfortunately.
i totally agree with you on the diversity of companies in 4th gen, I think that it will eventually lead to new and more unique concepts once the groups are a bit settled in the future. But for real, I hope fanwars stop, that's so annoying and local think we're all like this. They put too much energy to hate other groups, they're better things to do with all that. Also, this video is so well built and there're real arguments, I seriously thought that there was at least 500k views. Keep up with good stuff like this, it's gonna pay
Plus the “all rounders” title is as overused as terms as flop, ace, bop, queen/king, it girl/boy, and so forth. No group is made of all members being all rounders or rather even ignoring rap proficiency saying that a group is made of all members able to sing and dance is pretty obvious since that’s a requirement for being an idol. But there’s a huge variance in actual skills which means that the actual number of proficient idols in both is low enough that no group is made of all rounders.
Honestly i think 4th gen will become more popular as time goes on, i don't know if they will become as popular as 3rd gen but there is definitely so much room for improvement, for example for bts it was years until they got they got to the level they are right now. Its hard to compare groups that debut 7, 8, 9, or 10 years ago to groups that debut 1, 2, 3, or 4 years ago. 4th gen will be amazing if they are able to grow from here (and 3rd gen is obviously amazing too as they have already proven, just to clarify)
bruh 4th gen began 5 years ago give them some time... like yall's favs didn't just debut and hit the billboard #1. not trynna be offensive but bts started getting worldwide fame/recognition in late 2018 or beginning of 2019 but they debuted in 2013 so they also took 5-6 years to actually get to that level. if you guys remember when 3rd gen had just begun all the 2nd gen stans were saying the 3rd gen is bad and all and you guys were really offended... why are you repeating the thing you hated the most back then? that just does not make sense also, they say its impossible to reach to their level... ofc it is impossible because they ntroduced a whole new genre to the world, *"KPOP"*. the most 4th gen can do is produce music in the same genre and get people's attention. this whole scenario is as if a scientist invented something and got fame but people are hating on the companies producing that product saying they will never reach the same level of success as the scientist
Do you consider (G)i-dle to not be 4th gen? Because even if sales are not that high right now they will be a very strong contender for Artist Of The Year and Song Of The Year. The other contender is (so far of course) IVE, which has had the smashing hit that is still mostly at number 3 in charts in Love Dive and have sold 1 million albums with 2 singles.
yeah nah, i thought idle was done for after the whole soojin thing, but they clearly proved me wrong. and with ive, i thought they were just going to be a one hit wonder, but goddamn i was wrong.(again) i also lowkey underestimated the impact of jang wony and an yujin.
I really like your videos, started watching the one about Ditto, made me realize how much i spend my time on the internet, when i shouldn't. Alas i'm here cause it's a saturday.XD But u make valid points, especially about the word ''flop''. (Honestly we joke around with my friend, saying smth is ''flop'' when it becomes successful or popular. XD) I have stanned very popular and not so popular groups before. I was a SHINee, then Vixx and now Stray Kids fan. (if somebody asks, no i didnt unstan them, my music taste changed but i still listen from time to time while skz is my main now) Anyway as a fan of all these three groups, all from different companies and different levels of success, i can wholeheartedly say all 3 of them have been called a flop, and not just at the lowest of their career. I won't go into sales, cause for some groups what was a successful album then wouldve been a flop now for 4th gen fans. The truth is most ppl that called these or other groups flops was due to comparison, it didn't matter that they brought new styles and concepts, that they performed on important events or that their songs are widely loved all around the world, nowadays i just see comparisons of numbers and sales. I see lots of 2nd gen, 3th gen stans hating the new styles of music, sure it may be not your style, but some and i dare say many people love this shift in the music scene, i personally fell in love with SKZ's songs by finding Side Effects, a title track that was the most polarizing to kpop fans. If you don't vibe with it, just don't listen. Find something else, there are tons of music in kpop and outside and if you think there is not ONE band doing similar songs to the past, you're lying to yourself. If there is an audience for the said music, that don't just stream for numbers, that want to listen to the whole album, that is invested in the choreography, would go to a concert to hear and see the artist then i don't think we can call them flops. What else can be called success for a singer if not for their songs to be loved and listened to?
I honestly think the kpop industry is just a little lost rn because of the lack of direction/dominance that had previously been established, but sortve removed from this new generation. JYP, SM and YG always sortve 'lead'? (I don't wanna say lead, I guess I mean.. they've always been at the top... like rulers... and then of course a few non big 3 groups outside of their labels that were popular..) When there are no more 'rulers', the kingdom is thrown into chaos and confusion for a while. Especially when other new 'rulers' (wow I'm deep into this metaphor), come and start to lay their claim on things (Hybe & Starship coming into play fast.. too fast for things to be able to properly adjust fast enough to keep up). Not to mention the recent boom in 'international craze/interest' has made things tougher because now you're not just competing for korea, you're competing for the whole world. On top of that, it also increases the amount of 'big groups' because there's more fans, and that means more people to look at and invest in other groups (groups that normally would've have such spotlight bc the big ones would take all the attention... but now there's suddenly room for several big groups.. before there's like 5-7 big groups, now there's like 30... thats a huge jump, especially for competition and makes it hard to establish a 'pecking order') So without it being 'the big groups + everyone else', everyone's just a big group and there's just pure chaos going on rn... I think things are starting to settle in now (2023), and there's a lot more diversity of concept and although its still competitive, I think one can nearly predict who's gonna be the top a-list groups, and who's gonna be the b-list groups, and who's gonna be below... But also, Gen 4 like.. just started (technically speaking - a whole 2 1/2 years were taken, so really Gen 4 has only really gotten to be Gen 4 for about 2 1/2 years...)
It makes so much sense. Kpop fans gatekeep too much over the sake of comparing groups. Which ends up with nothing but negativity about every single group. And then you all wonder why your fave isn't growing in popularity.
This is what I've been saying!! All the possible new fans (like... yknow... sane people...), are too busy trying to actually AVOID the group because of the fandom. They say shit like "well the fandom shouldn't determine whether or not you support the group", but honestly that means nothing if I can't get within 2 inches of the group or its related media without encountering batshit crazy fans-
4th gen is not a flop, but everyone compares them to BTS, BP, EXO and Twice. Twice is almost 8 yr old, BTS, EXO and BP are older. All 4 of them had massive success over the years. And Gen 4 is supposed to surpass all those successes in just a few years? Of course not. BTS didn't win a music show for two years+-, and some of these 4th gen groups aren't even 2 yrs old yet, but they're supposed to be competing with BTS? Come on people. It's like telling a high school basketball player that they have to compete with LeBron, and if they lose they're a flop: Utter nonsense. Good video, by the way! Well thought out and nonbiased.
thats what I thought,like how can you expect from a 2-3 year old group to be as successful as a group that exists since 6+ years?(sry for my bad english)
honestly, I feel like comparing 3rd gen idol groups like Twice, Blackpink, Red Velvet, BTS, Exo etc. to any of 4th gen idol groups is just stupid. BTS became really popular internationally in what year, like 2019? 2020? Bro they debuted like in 2012-2013, around that time, yeah. And if you can do simple math, you'll find out that they went viral internationally like 7-8 years after they debut. So how do you even expect 4th gen groups to go as viral as BTS so quickly? Stop it guys, it's just stupid. We can compare them maybe like around year 2027 or something like that when the 4th gen is probably gonna slowly start to come to an end, but right now? 4th gen just started, so let's leave them alone.
@@slecnastory5911 nahh...they were already popular but they dynamite did help them get thier first number 1 song ..but even before dynamite they were already really really really popular...
@@Balerion_thedread maybe, but you get the point. They didn't become famous like right after debut or 1 or 2 years after debut, it took some time so we shouldn't expect them (rookies) to become so famous I'm not really an army so i don't know
"Seek professional help" Bro- you gotta be the most unbiased person making kpop videos out there. Why? Cause you don't have your perspective blinded by you fav group like others. I'll just stay subscribed and wait for your videos to blow up. People need to know you. An amazing creator you deserve lots and lots of support for standing by true facts.
2023 pov: imo 4th gen didn't flop for everyone, they just couldn't do as good right after the 3rd gen massively impacted by BTS. Some 4th gen are just getting started to expand worldwide, while some never made any noise, and others who were once very popular are losing their audience and the lead because of the lack of quality and originality in their music and concepts, especially with the arrival of the new 4th gen/5th gen groups who are extremely remarkable and musically diversified and original for some who are now taking the lead. (4th gen was like an experimentation of what the different futures of kpop could become, some found excellent recipes, others didn't)
I agree with the 3 Th reason.Believe me or not, I tried my best to like at least one of the 4th gen groups but at the end I couldn’t.Why?Because the fandoms are toxic.Some might say that “every fandom have a toxic side”I understand that ,the thing is that they fight over every thing.Every small little detail.Theres people that says “it’s not the fandom you Stan it’s the artist”How am I supposed to survive in community where hate is spread every where 🤨?
it's only because the bar was set so high by the 3rd gen. 3rd gen really make it big mainstream on the Western music. the challenge of 4th gen is not just to exceed on 4th gen sales, charting and numbers, but make kpop truly respectable genre of music from Western musicians, producers and the entire music industry. which is better 3rd gen or 4th gen? if 3rd gen - kpop in paper if 4th gen - diversity
I became Treasure fan recently and I wonder why I didn't come across this group earlier. Thank you for the recognition. They do deserve to be an A level group and I hope they will be became they do have a lot of potential.
Great video! Y’all how long did it take BTS to actually make it to A level?!? These kids are just 3-5 years into their careers! On top of that they lost a year and a half to COVID. 🤦🏾♀️ People were calling them flops just two years into their careers. Kpop fans be wildin!
The standard is too high? Coming from the mainstream, I would argue, that the standard isn’t high enough, and in the wrong place. MUSIC. Not the other stuff. BUT I agree with you about the kpop fandoms. They are arguably K-pop’s backbone. But this also means they are K-pop’s Achilles heel. Which better? Gen 3 or 4? Wrong question. Gen 3 broke the mould. So Gen 4 can be freed from the tyranny of the big 3. Once kpop market expanded to global from local, (I think I said this already), more companies will invest in kpop companies. Like Kakao and Melon owning Starship, the home for IVE the monster rookie for this year’s GG. The big 3 is the past. 3rd Gen has done most of their work and now 4th Gen will take it further. So which is better is the wrong question. Next BTS? NO.
I feel like gen 3 did set a very high standard ☹️☹️ like Twice,bts,exo and blackpink were the ones who got kpop more popular rather than gen 2, and 4. Like almost all the most popular people are gen 1,2, and 3 (not saying their isnt famous gen 4 idols.) Plus before their was only 3-4 big companies, now its like 10 different companies
I think that they do sound the same but that is not the Idols fault. Most of them don't produce their own music. Look what happened to G (Iddle) with Nxde once they were given a chance to write their own thing. And I think that there is one group that sounds VERY different from The fourth group generation and that is TXT. That is the main reason why I started listening to them and then came to like them a lot. Apart from their latest comeback with " Good boy gone bad" that sounds a little bit noisy like the music that is given to most of the 4 gen groups these days, I think they are awesome. TXT is the only 4th gen group that I stan because of its uniqueness!! I also like Ateez, even though it is not as different and unique as TXT, I still like listening to them occasionally.
in my opinion not all flop, i honestly love many groups in 4th gen, anyone can reach to the A level if they worked hard. success and popularity is for those who work hard. i hate it when people say that only 3rd gen are the best. nah they're awsome and everything but other 4th gen groups are great too
I just finished binge-watching all of your videos, they're all so good and I love your personality. so funny. honestly. With consistency, I know for a definite fact that you'll blow up. keep at it, really love your content man. fr.
I think the 4th generation is far from a failure, and the music of the 4th gen groups is quite good, I like a lot of songs released recently, but it's stupid to deny the fact that it is much less interesting to follow the 4th gen groups than the 3rd and 2nd. Firstly, most of them are literally children or barely adults who look like children, and I'm not particularly interested in watching children dancing sexy dances in my mid 20s. Secondly, following the groups of the 4th gen is akin to following robots. They can't even say a word, they are afraid of everything, trapped in themselves, afraid to communicate with other artists. And thirdly, you can easily see how in the 4th generation the focus of companies shifted from the search for talent to the search for beautiful faces. Half of the idols who are debuting now are not only not able to sing and rap really good - some are not able to do it at all, having only an attractive appearance, and because of this I often wonder if the bar is so low now? to become an idol now, is it enough to just do plastic surgery and lose weight? that's it? I want to look at talented (and ADULT) artists, and not at beautiful dolls whose only talent is to smile at the camera. And I don't think the standard is too high, they are only required to BE ABLE to sing and rap, and in a huge number of cases they don't even do that. Is it really possible that the 3rd generation was capable of this and the 4th is not? For example, nmixx - they are damn talented in singing, or stray kids - in rap, and if they could, then why can't others? its not about standart being that high its about 4th gen mostly not being able to sometimes do at least bare minimum
I don't think 3rd Gen set the standard for talent high (well- except maybe mostly upholding the previous gens' live singing... because when I look at some of these 4th Gen groups I think "JESUS CHRIST CAN THEY NOT SING-?! WHY ARE THE LIP SYNCING-", and I'm not even talking about justified lip syncing/heavy back tracking for hard dances... I'm talking about while sitting down or doing relatively easy dances (and no doing easy dances while singing for 1 performance that lasts 3 minutes shouldn't be impossible for them, they trained for years to be able to do that. What's the point of all that hard training, to not use it and never grow in skillset, once training is over doesn't mean you're done learning and growing as a performer)). I think 3rd Gen set the standard high in terms of success.... (which wasn't even completely done by them, it had been in the stepping stones long before them and 3rd Gen came at the right time with the right groups, but that's a topic for another time) I also think they set the standard a bit too high in terms of concept. At the time of 2nd and 3rd Gen, all those 'overused' concepts were still pretty fresh back then. And all the biggest groups had completely different concepts from each other - BTS and Hip-hop - Twice and cutesy - Blackpink and girl crush - EXO and r&b sexy thingy going on - Mamamoo and mature - Red Velvet being the 'everyman' Concept changes and weird, etc), - Seventeen being the happy go lucky theater kids You had a group for everything, creating a nice diversity in sound and look of the kpop industry overall (what attracted many to the 3rd gen). What made 3rd Gen special was because the kpop industry was fully established by the time they came onto the seen, they weren't just starting/figuring things out like 1st Gen, and they weren't still trying to win and keep popularity like 2nd Gen practically fought to achieve. 3rd Gen was completely established in what they were. All thay was left was to be 'a group' and have concept. They had more room for experimentation and to even introduce newer unpopular concepts as their group concept. However, 4th Gen comes AFTER all those concepts have been introduced. There's little left of what's known to be completely original. Sure you see groups like IVE and NewJeans coming out with something original, but many are struggling to find a set sound and concept, and then make it uniquely there's instead if a random copy. And because the competition started out so big, companies couldn't take the time to really explore, they just had to jump onto what was trendy and hope they got popular in order to even be apart of the competition. Lastly, musical production quality was much higher in the previous gens. However, i don't think this is a kpop specific thing. I think the music industry in general has just kinda gone... downhill.... I think it's beginning to regain itself again (and simultaneously, kpop music is beginning to regain itself again... because let's be honest, kpop doesn't just stay within 'kpop', it's influenced by and sorted even relies on outside sources. I think kpop is just smaller a more intense reflection/pocketed version of the music industry as a whole)
@@haewonized well what made the start of 2nd Generation was BoA and how she was able to break into the Japanese market, the ones that made the 2nd Gen what it is was SNSD, f(x), TVXQ, BigBang, Wonder Girls, Shinee, SuJu, 2ne1 and IU for many of the kpop standards and trends that kpop knows today. The third Generation was started by EXO when SM wanted to branch into the Chinese music industry. But what made 3rd Gen was international awareness thanks to groups/soloist like Psy, BTS, Twice, Red Velvet, VIXX, Mamamoo, Momoland, Blackpink, Monsta X, Seventeen, etc. The fourth Gen really started with Stray Kids when people noticed that they had more of an international fanbase than a domestic one and the term "noise music" which is what the group is synonymous for. Also there was a huge demand in the Girl Crush concepts and less bright concepts. We are still in 4th Gen to this day so until something major happens that will change kpop we are still in Fourth Gen.
Disagree on itzy not having iconic songs I think Wannabe is an iconic song if for nothing else other then the shoulder dance. However iconic songs aren't enough to push you through many groups have iconic songs that went nowhere like Ikon and who doesn't know love scenario or even momoland with Baam and others. However sadly due to lack of promotion bad management they went nowhere. Now ikon is leaving YG. Even blackpink has come under fire and they are known for ikonic songs. Ikonic songs are like that turbo boost or sprint sure it can give you a leg up but it's not enough. I just hope tresure doesn't fall into the same problem and YG treats them right but that's wishful thinking at this point knowing YG's track record.
