this entire video is completely correct. There’s nothing I hate more than K-pop fans getting upset bc someone “didn’t stream the song enough”. Music shouldn’t be a chore. If I listen to a song a billion and five times, it’s because I genuinely love the song, and never because I feel pressured to listen to it by fans who call others fake for not doing the same. Again, I say that music should not be a chore. It really is so damn annoying when fans guilt trip others for simply not wanting to listen to a song, and I’ve never met a single person who genuinely enjoys being forced to listen to music. Be a normal person and listen to a song as much as you actually want to.
What bothers me the most about the quality of music being put out right now is so much of it is made to fit into the mould of a “song that could potentially do well on well on tiktok” it doesn’t help that a lot of artists will immediately put out “_____ challenge” videos to accompany the song. It seems that all companies care about is virality nowadays.
PURE FACT👏🏻 For example, IU, Big Bang, AKMU and more have lower views, but that doesn’t make them less successful at all, they are still top artists in Korea that almost every one knows!
When I was baby kpop fan I thought that I needed to steam more in order to be considered a real kpop fan. As time passed, I realised that there were many pieces of work in Kpop that had less views, streams, sells but had quality in terms of lyricism, production, vocal delivery and so on. But kpop stans automatically called it "flop." While some mainstream kpop felt more empty because there was no an authenticity but still had millions and millions. Everyone is allowed to like whatever they like, stream and buy obsessively. But today I only stream what I actually like and find good and I'm not afraid to say that I dislike something even though I was or I'm a fan. Your editing is so good by the way.
too many albums have over 10 versions now it’s so horrifying. it’s inflating the sales in such a ridiculous and dangerous way (environment wise). a false achievement. rewatching a video for a whole day and doing it in such a complicated way to the views count. another false achievement. companies and FANS buying ads for the mvs inflating the views. again, more false achievements. all for bragging rights.
I once watched a video called ‘the best and worst sides of K-pop fandoms.’ When ‘Reveluv’ came up (red velvet fans) the bad things were ‘bad streaming/ low numbers.’ Most/nearly all ReveLuv’s I’ve met are genuine and not that problematic. Red velvet does NOT need music video views, they do NOT need Spotify listens to have a good fandom. They just need support, they need nice fans who will give them strength. Who cares if they don’t stream red velvet’s songs 24/7? Red velvet have good music. One of my sayings is “not every music video has to have billion’s of views to be a GOOD song.”
tried to stream once or twice a song that I adored from release. It got so tiring and felt like a waste of time and the song got old for me too quick. I have no idea how hardcore stans manage to do all that all day everyday. Seeing the numbers of views on a new comeback jump from 1.1m to 20m in the span of a few hours is so impressive at telling kpop stans have no life. The comments are always like "(fandom name) WE GOT 50M LET'S GO FOR 100M AMD 200M NEXT FIGHTING" Music awards will almost always be about popularity. Please just appreciate the song without caring about the views. Just as you said, this is making companies see that they can make their biggest groups release anything and they'll go viral. Songs are falling off so hard now, we don't have art anymore, we have tiktok trends music, repetitive concepts, kpop will never be the same anymore. A lovely example of this is blackpink. No hate to the girls, they're wonderful. But Pink Venom, what YGE is doing is starving the fans of content for the biggest girl group there is to the point where they will release anything and fans will eat it up even if it's bad. And that happened. Be honest with yourself. It wasn't worth waiting 2 years. Please, just listen to the song, appreciate it, forget the views, and if you don't like it just move on. Learn to enjoy music like a normal person, and remember less views ≠ garbage, more views ≠ masterpiece ! So much instances where a song blew up and I thought it'll be a banger but it was just normal or grew old fast, all the doings of toxic steaming.
You are one of the most real people on kpop lol, I always appreciate your opinions and perspectives. I completely agree with you on this. This is probably my biggest pet peeve about the industry as a whole. The strive for numbers just sucks all the fun out of everything. I'm here to be a fan and enjoy myself, not feel stressed out when I'm not even the one getting paid 😭 lol. Another great video!
This reminds me of when this army on instagram was forcing people to vote for bts on an msa voting thing online and was upset that they lost twice to seventeen and started calling them “flops” like please, sit down and calm down. I have no hate against bts but they have already won a plethora of awards in the past years, I’m sure it won’t affect them one bit if seventeen wins.
I'll add to your post I've seen a lot of older people in America say 30 and up doing reactions to stray kids and exo and getting into it and the BTS fans cannot stand it they get into these people's comment sections and say they are just reacting to kpop for the clout when the reality is that these fans can't handle that someone other than their favorite is getting some attention. The reaction videos from the older generations have been positive so honestly what else could have been the problem? Oh yes a video that doesn't center around BTS.
6:55 however, tbh, kpop was always about the faces. I mean… music is important, but what sets kpop apart from other music industries is their visuals, looks, concepts, persona, etc. Unlike in jpop industry, the copyright are often claimed on public platforms so that fans have to pay to listen to music. But, in kpop’s case, you can see ‘kpop full album’ video on RU-vid everywhere, the music isn’t difficult to get from a public platform, that’s why kpop albums have so many extra things to attract purchase. This is part of the kpop culture that I think is inevitable🧐
Same applies to forcing yourself to listen to a song 100 times until you like it. That's why I prefer discovering kpop on Spotify where I can't be influenced by views and ktube opinions. Then if I like it, I'll look for the video. That's how I listened to Bibi and Chung Ha all of last year before I was even a kpop fan! Ngl I was sad to find out they're not big stars in kpop when I became a kpop fan bc their music beats most of the current popular kpop groups (don't throw tomatoes pls)
One of biggest real reason why kpop fans are obsessed with numbers is because it contributes to your fav group winning awards. You want your group to have bigger chances to win? Do this and do that. The award show company is at fault. Like, what does chart have to do with dancing award? But that's the criteria the show have put on. And the fandom that can't catch up will be left in the dust. Sad reality.
Finally someone talks about this. Tbh I never streamed its basically stressful to listen to an ear bleeding song 24/7 just for example red velvet, the fandom doesn't stream.. many people called them flops bcz of it Just because red velvet doesn't have one billion views each music video DOESN'T mean they are unsuccessful and flops! They literally performed in North Korea and have the best discography in kpop. I have seen fans of other groups talking trash about red velvet just for not having a billion views on a music video.. 😭
The only time I actually care about views is when it comes to nugu MVs, their carriers are on the line, so I stream them, but I literally don't give two shits about popular groups' views
these last few years ive gotten the impression that many kpop fans are not music fans theyre just idol fans. i dont think thats inherently wrong but it does bother me that often views are discussed more than vocals/production/music in general
i remember joining kpop fan groups just to share my dance covers and they legit have "streaming guides" which include complex stuff you have to do with your browser cache and history so every single view counts and they be streaming on all their devices. like, views and album sales can count for music show wins and can help with financing the group's next project but it's ridiculous to buy 100 albums you don't need or to waste your time streaming a song for hours. i do buy albums but stick to one of each version. it's normal not buy albums for the cd these days tbh. you can listen online easily so no way i would spend money on a basic jewel case with a lyric book and cd like it is in the west. definitely like kpop's more creative approach to the albums even tho it's for the money at the end of the day like any business is.
honestly, I also used to stream the mv and buy all versions of an album. But I realized that it can destroy the experience of staining a group. Like if you want to do these things then it's okay. However, I felt so forced sometimes when streaming an mv for the 10th time in a row. Or to preorder the newest album my favs are going to release even tho I don't have the money for it. It makes kpop so damn stressful and unenjoyable which definitely shouldn't be the case..
Please continue making video’s like these, I genuinely enjoy your way of editing and the way you talk about the topics !! you’ve put out amazing work mashallah
One of my favorite things about Red Velvet and Mamamoo's fandoms (and I think Seventeen?? I'm not quite sure), are the general lack of obsession with streams (at least before, haven't really checked up on either for a while... maybe their fans have gone off the rails by now idk). But typically, they'd have less views, streams and sales than other groups (at least upon initial release), despite being some of the TOP groups, often even more popular than the groups that somehow get more sales, views and streams. They have the same amount (sometimes more fans), they just dont uphold the same obsession within their fandoms (they operate kinda like Gen 2 fandoms). It was a little sad and downright irritating to see fandoms of popular groups like Red Velvet, be called 'lazy streamers' or the group themselves being called 'flops' by other fandoms. As if streams determined popularity... newsflash: YT youtubers get millions of views all the time, that doesn't mean a shitton of people outside of their fandom knows who they are. Sometimes it's just a 'one hit wonder' or they bring in 'unique viewers'. They're popular yes, but that doesn't mean they're worldwide (or even domestically) famous.
im glad your video got recommended to me! im new to the whole k-pop thing and still trying to understand how things work and i thought fans were just being normal but i was just not used to it. turns out its fine to just like a group for their song, to listen to songs one time and not loop, to like other groups, to not like some of their songs, etc. i thought i was the weird one! thanks for reassurance that im actually just a casual fan!
Can you please make a video on the so called "true fan" thing cause it's almost 3 years in kpop for me and I'm still confused and always found guilty for not doing certain things....
I DESPISE the obsession with numbers, before [like pre-2015] if we got a lot of views then wow amazing, people loved it, they took the effort to search it up and hear it a lot. but recently? they don't care about the quality or how genuine it is, they just care about the amount of views for the bragging rights even though it doesn't actually mean anything for bigger groups because of streaming-parties, goals, guilt-tripping, forcing themselves to waste hours a day on a song they usually don't like just to say "Our group has 65676475745374764 views and yours doesnt!!!!! flopssssss!!!!!" like ok? what do you personally get out of it? BP or BTS aren't going to show up to your front door to thank you personally for being a relentless streamer, you're just another fan in the crowd.
This is so right. I'm a former K-Pop fan and this whole "obsession with numbers" really started late 3rd gen/early 4th gen. At least, that's how it feels to me. I never cared about numbers. I only watched a MV once (except when I discovered VIXX in 2018 🤣), I never cared much for streaming religiously (I only streamed when I was actually active on Spotify) and I usually stuck to one version (unless I was indecisive, then I bought more. But I still sold majority over time). The same goes for voting for award shows or so. K-Pop fans literally force each other into the voting and the streaming, because you're a 'fake fan' if you don't participate. Well then I rather be a fake fan then, like don't tell me what to do
Lol , literally someone make me feel bad not to listen a biggest group music video over 10 times when it's release like they are bragging themselves out by saying I listen this video today for 24 hours and with my 6 different accounts/ devices like is it not tooo much?? I never seen a Taylor or Justin fan saying today we stream their album for 24 hours!? Like are people crazy?? And also my friends told me I'm not real fan of the biggest group also I don't deserve to listen their song bla bla likeeeee I'm a 🤡!!!!
Seriously! I’ve been dragged by the only fandom I’m in just because I tried to bring this topic to their attention and they told me I “was not a real fan”. Like what the heck? People can’t even listen to music anymore. And don’t even get me started on voting. People will literally make like 20 accounts to vote, be fr. Who has the time to vote that much? It’s just crazy.
this is true, i stopped focusing on numbers a long time ago and since its made me enjoy some aspects of kpop better. i follow this girl on instagram and she is obsessed with the numbers and she said that if you don’t contribute to the streaming then you dont get to celebrate the accomplishments, this just goes to show that some fans just need to go and touch some grass
I feel like I’m one of the few people i know who buys albums for the 💿 cd. I don’t want posters on my wall and photocards are useless (unless you sell them to make a quick buck 💵)
THANK YOU. 👏THANK YOU. 👏THANK YOU. 👏 I miss people liking kpop for the music. It's really declining every single day. I don't give a crap about 100M views on a music video. But can they sing and rap though? I don't care for how visual they are or how hard they dance. Sorry, not sorry.
I've seen the type of videos you make and honestly this is the kind of content I'd love to watch and I am interested in, like the visual role in kpop and idols being not human, that's very interesting to me so please keep doing this as you are, it's amazing I subbed
Whenever I talk about songs I don’t like or see song review videos that aren’t positive or blind praise, there’s always some comment about “Hah they’re still more successful and have more popularity than your flop faves😂💅” or “Maybe if you streamed your faves they would actually be successful” and I can’t describe the irritation I get from comments like these. They just can’t comprehend that some of us just like talking about music and sharing our opinions on it whether it’s good or bad. For example, I’ve seen many comments from Blinks talking about how YG never gives Blackpink more music or gives them the same song each CB once a year or two. Then they’ll say “But it’s Blackpink so I guess I just have to support them” Like no you don’t? This is exactly why YG keeps waiting so long and giving them the bare minimum. They know they don’t have to try hard in order for fans to mass stream and it’s really affected their music quality. Or Ncitizens talking about how Sticker was one of the worst songs they ever heard but would still do mental gymnastics to defend it. We already have many big groups releasing very short catchy songs just barely reaching the 3 minute mark, singles and short Ep’s that are easy to stream. I really hope that the fandom will enter an era where we start more critical commentary and discussions so we can actually have really investing talks about the music in general and companies will actually start putting more effort and thought into what they release.
Tysm for this. I'm tired of being called a fake fan of groups i've been following for years only because i don't get into the crazy capitalist train of consumerism. Like i'm allowed not to buy overpriced anything X group related, i'm allowed to be critical of a bad song and so on and so forth.
Bravo dude ! Tomboy and Girls are the two actual best songs of 2022. Even though YT views, Spotify streams and Billboard says Pink Venom and Shutdown are the most popular and successful songs. I am proud to say I bought ONE Girls album.
yeah like recently BTS's 10th debut anniversary is coming up and Armys planned to make BS&T reach 100 mil views. And to be honest I want don't to stream it anymore. I like the song, but like you know if you hear a song on repeat for a long period of time it's just not as fun as it used to be. If I hear it somewhere I'll start jamming and singing, but if I hear it many times a day I'll star getting a headache. I can't even hear my fav song on repeat more than 3 times. At last Hyeatiful is one of the best kpop channels that kpop stans should watch.
I dont care about numbers anymore. I just want to be a fan. Im buying lots of albums tho. Not because of the numbers, but because i wanna appreciate their work, and if i like their music and them, ill buy their albums. This counts for me with BLACKPINK and Twice. I got a lot of BP albums and LPs, and some other stuff. I also got some Twice albums. I buy them, because theyre super aesthetic for my room, and they give me joy. I just love knowing, that maybe, one day when the group isnt a full group anymore, i can go and look at my collection, with good memories in mind
one of the most funny things in this industry is, that even when they have billions of views, still the majority of the world doesn't know them. I mean for instance BP. I stan BP and they recently got 2B on DUDUDU. If they have that amount of views, it must be known by the whole world like Gangnam Style, the whole dessert etc. But let's be honest, who knows BP and especially BP? Right, the majority never even heard of them. It wouldn't even suprise me if they somehow managed to buy views.
believe me or not almost every kpop stan and people who interact with them and many other people know them .. and their songs are hella catchy, I can listen to them without rest.... and gangnam style was a meme song.. people were not loving it just for the pure music but because it was funny and I heard it so many times but I just recently happen to know psy ...
Nah you’re delulu 😂 They are literally the most known female kpop group outside the bubble that is kpop, the numbers are consistent with the people who knows them. The general public loves them and their music so stop ☠️
@@isabellyoliveira271 let’s be real bp are puppies compared to bts… and the average non kpop fan would struggle even naming a bts song other than butter and they only know jimin…so imagine how hard they’re struggle with bp LMAO
6:51 honestly I'm one of the few stans who actually buy albums for the cds? I find it strange when kpop stans complain about how "rough" a person unboxed their album in the comments but never how they confidently put their finger prints on the back of the cd? Because if you do it will sound a bit like this: "When we pull up you know it's a- *BLACKPINK IN YOUR AREAAAA!"* And yeah while it's their album meaning the person can handle it however, My point is you can tell who just wants kpop merch and who actually plans to play the cds I actually remember a kpop artist unboxing her own album (I cant remember who it was though i watched it a long time ago) and she asked "Wait where's the cd?" And the company took it out so she can "unbox the album" so these companies know most stans don't care and more proof of this is digital albums with no cd and just photocards💀
Not related but your accent is kinda cool 👍 Edit 😅 : after watching the video once again (sorry,the first time I watched it I wasn't focused cuz I had to study ). I kinda wanna share something. Never in my life I have streamed something so much without carrying about the numbers. It's newjeans for me, before them I never streamed something so much, I was a person who watches the music video ONCE then... " Uh okay, that's a good song " Then continue with my daily life. But after newjeans, I can't help but listen to their music without being tired , I don't know it's just their music bought happy colours in my life . And I hope I can see more groups that produce such good music in future.
Numbers to a certain extent do matter. Because GP has a very short attention span. In 2019 people talking about itzy then in 2020 asepa was the talk of the town forgetting itzy. Then all of these gg showed up forgetting asepa. GP attention span is very short. When a big new thing comes you will be forgotten. Numbers meanwhile are permanent. It will never be forgotten.
And it’s always Blinks who are obsessed. I love Blackpink and I will always support and listen to them. However other blinks are Just so OBSESSED with views it hurts to enter the comment section and disagree with them. Let’s say you want to stream a song that personally is hot garbage to everyone but you like that group so you don’t care and hype it up. Giving views to that video will just have the company think it was bomb. See what I mean?
I feel like a lot of kpop stans sleep on real talent and focus solely on idols. That pretty privilege is real. Bad omens is an experimental rock band of Japanese guys that are out there killing it right now and you people would rather hear BTS? Those Japanese guys write their own lyrics and play their own instruments and their lead Noah can truly sing his ass off. Get past looks and start looking for talent.
okay watching this video I realized that I was obsessed with numbers and I stream all the videos of my favs to show the power of fandom? and we taking a step back i also realized that i live for the glory of others for streaming is finally i appreciate kpop in other ways than just loving these favs and giving them incredible support how kpop is toxic me i find it c it's because of the industry they "force" the fans to stream by a system the group which... is a great group and will be very successful and therefore creates rivalry and toxicity BIG OMGGG
From my side I watch the songs that I like and that I think is good I don't care about the numbers and it's so annoying to see K-Pop fans caring about numbers so so so much cause like you said in the video that the companies will not do good songs cause even if the song is bad it will hit many records and have many views anyway.
I find it weird how the new fans like to take offense when old fans say we miss the old kpop. Back then views did not matter, groups were able to socialize freely, and most of the kpop stars were able to collab more. This competition for views or ranks is just outrageous, they want to talk about statistics but only like to glorify their fav group and bring down other groups. Kpop has changed for the worse and I don't think it will change for the best at this rate.
Most stans who stream religiously make play lists with the song appearing many times, then leave the Playlist on mute to play all day. I remember when Justin Bieber told his fans to do this so his album could break records.
Videos like these are the videos that actually do need to go 'viral' (haha I stayed on theme) amongst kpop fans, but it often just goes under the radar by most of them... so sad
Wait wait wait you stated here 6:53 that people buy albums for pcs posters etc I think that too it really is all about numbers and companies are starting to make different versions cuz they know we're going buy it I CAN NOT SPEND MY MONEY on different album versions just to have three to four of the same CDs it's pointless but yes there are some people that buy one album and actually listen to the album for collecting and listening just like me but there should be more people doing so cuz it's REALLY NOT GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT and it's better for your pockets think about college savings etc there are other things you can do with your money besides getting all the versions of an album just for it to sit there and you not use it get your favorite ver and be happy with that in the end you will be glad you did so
I just got into your channel and am currently binge watching ur vids and love them sm, your opinions are so refreshing and give me faith in kpop stans lmao. that being said, i was wondering if you would be interested in making a vid about how well kpop is received in indonesia? i could be wrong but i feel like in countries like indonesia and the philippines, liking kpop seems to be less of a taboo and more of a norm. here in america, there’s still so much stigma surrounding kpop and honestly, kpop is typically only well received by kpop fans- not the general public. if you are interested i would love to see a vid with your take on this 🤗
As a kpop fans i literally dont care bout the number the important thing i enjoy the music and albums and i am to lazy to stream like what the freak i have my life too as a human, my life is not only for streaming my freaking fav kpop ☠️
Ok I have some disagreements with you but before that I'll say you are right in almost everything except point number 1. Numbers mean everything in any business or industry you go to. It's the numbers that determines success. Saying album sales and youtube views don't matter, is like saying a businessman making a profit or his business becoming more popular is not an indication of success! That doesn't make any sense! The way youtube works is that it's free marketing, more views leads to either more sales or more popularity as the algorithm pushes the video to new audiance. It's a win win either way as that could also lead to sales. Even if there is one person buying a bunch of albums or seeing the video multiple times that still doesn't matter because if a person buys two air conditioner does that mean the air conditioner company is unsuccessful? No lol. From a business prospective the company is successful because it's making a profit. If it makes a profit then chances are the group will last. However that doesn't mean just because they make money therefore they are "good" you are right about that. There is no objective way to decide if art is good or not it's all subjective. If you like it doesn't mean it's good if you dislike it doesn't mean it's bad either. There is no way to tell tbh.
you are right.. I heard people always say that folk music don't fit in the theory of good music that much, but I have to say I enjoy it more than many the mathematical structured songs.. if there is no creativity, special meaning, iconic parts, feelings, fun and emotions then what I should do with the structure? a song should be one iconic feature to be memorable
I'm convinced its because they don't actually like the songs themselves and dont think the songs can organically rank high. The fact that they speak about streaming songs like a mission w/ set goals and not something they casually enjoy tells you everything you need to know abt what they think of their music. Sadly they are shooting themselves in the foot because accepting mediocrity breeds more mediocrity and now they are stuck listening to songs that resemble a mayo sandwich.
I disagree with your main crux of your argument. Numbers do indicate success, because all the money generated from streams and sales translates to profit. Views aren’t a good indication because companies buy ads lol, they’re most likely losing money. But numbers can be skewed and thus aren’t purely indicative of popularity. Also that brand reputation chart is run by one guy, who has admitted to removing certain idols because their fans pissed him off. So that’s not accurate either. Korean charts are definitely the easiest way to see popularity (but only in Korea).
The first 2 years I was into kpop I was very casual and didn't participate in any fandom shit at all. Now I only participate in the things that I actually enjoy. I don't really buy albums cuz I'm not very materialistic but streaming is very exciting to me if the song is good. But I'm not gonna force myself to stream non stop if I dislike a comeback just cuz it's a group I stan. I do like seeing those numbers go up, and it makes me feel good to know I'm apart of a dedicated fandom, but it's not the end of the world if not. (I used to mostly stan nugus so I have felt the pain)
The logic is faulty tbh. If your group has 100M views, but yall know it's because the fandom has streamed religiously to get there, that still doesn't mean they're more popular... because the fans got those views... and fans know that it's because of the fandom streaming, bc they congratulate each other.... but they fail to realize if it's just the fandom that was there before streaming, there's no new fans, and thus your group is just as 'unpopular' as they were before... At first I think, so it's just a front to pretend their popular? And yes that's part of it. But I think the other part is just the genuine lack of common sense within kpop fandoms (and we all know this extends FAR beyond just streams and numbers)
3:54 saying that numbers don't define success but brand reputation and kcharts do is a very crazy and incorrect thing to say. Like do u hear yourself?????? WHAT are u talking about???
Do you think that BTS has 1,7 billion fans just bcs they 1,7b views on a video ? This is just stupid, success came from people who APPRECIATE their music, not having idk views. In my country NO ONE cares abt kpop even with those numbers
Another negative and complaining RU-vid video/channel. I wish I could hit the Dislike button a million times and it would count. How's that for me being obsessed with numbers.
