Did the Jedi Order Actually Make Good Soldiers and Leaders? 

The Jedi should absolutely be consultants and possibly run special ops, but they are not rank and file and absolutely not prepared to be generals. If they had kept their distance, they probably could have noticed how the war was being manipulated to weaken all involved.

Either way, palpatine was brilliant to use machines and clones to wipe out the Jedi for him. Droids took out the weak, stupid, or unlucky Jedi and betrayed the strong ones with the clones. It left only the strongest, smartest, sneakiest and luckiest, while converting some of said survivors.

I would say it did. Maybe going Force Unleashed would have saved them during Order 66.

Warriors, Yes. Leaders, Questionable? Commanders, No! Generals, Absolutely Not!!!

There were Jedi like Obi Wan and Anakin who were great leaders but there was a lot who were better relegated to negotiations or meditations.

I’d say that they were good soldiers. But were they good leaders? That’s a different story. Some of them certainly were great leaders and soldiers, such as Anakin and Obi-Wan most notably. However, their commissioned ranks within the military should not have immediately been “every Jedi is now field promoted to General or Colonel right off the bat.” That’s an extreme amount of power to give anyone at the start of their military career. At that point, you’re pretty much setting them up for failure (which Palpatine did). Personally, I think the Jedi should have started off as lower-ranking officer grades (lieutenants, captains, commanders, etc) and operated in their own specialized units. Then, the best among them would have gradually worked themselves up the chain-of-command through EXPERIENCE (which outranks everything).

That thumbnail looks really cool ngl

I gotta admit tarkin (despite being evil) is kinda right about the jedi regulations

"Damn What is it the Americans call it?" "Peace keeping?" "YES! Peace keeping"

The Jedi were a military at one point. Then came the war with the Sith empire and the wholesale slaughter of so many younglings which made the general public to have a negative view of them. Thus the reformation of the Jedi order to become peace keepers and not warriors.

"But what about the droid attack on the wookies?"

8:34 The Jedi are trained to deesculate situations, uphold the law and bring people to justice … With their lightsabers they are also very good at _disarming_ suspects.

the problem with the clone wars era jedi was that thanks to the rusan reformations very few of them had proper tactical training

Mace Windu: We are the protectors of the Republic, not soldiers.

A purely pragmatic setup (without Palpatines manipulations) would be to use the Jedi strictly as _special ops units_ under the command structure of higher authorities Those Jedi that turn out to have a talent for it are selected to go to in effect officers school and can command mixed units, but the Jedi are usually kept as specialist (or super generalist) in their own groups. But for example during the Clone Wars there's a special caste of commander clones, specialists in strategic decision-making, as the standard organics are brought up to pace. And the Jedi are mostly used as SEALS, SAS, and other special forces with the Force.

It’s like the regular military. Some people suck at being leaders and soldiers other people are great at it, most are average

At the end of the day. Tarkin is the one whoms ideaology was used for the empire and the empire failed hard. Although it's hard to compare that to the success of the Republic against the Separatists because the separatists were also doomed to fail in the end by Palpatine.

I've wondered how the CIS wiewed The Republic, can you make a video about it.

In the clone wars it felt like Anakin and Obi Wan were the only Jedi capable of being great leaders and soldiers.

I always thought it odd that the Jedi being peace keepers would be leading an army in a war. Perhaps it would have been better to use the Jedi in special ops situations.

I wish these were longer, they are sooo good! I know it takes a lot to do it but I love the videos man!

That was extremely informative, thank you! I've been wondering for years if just because someone could make rock floats and swing a laser sword they could lead a squad. I remember when Ahsoka was first introduced, she didn't have a strategic mind and I recall one instance (I think the movie?) when a clone basically filled in the gaps on her orders. This confirms what I thought, and fills in a lot of gaps, especially about Revan and past conflicts.

How many drones does someone need to "de-activate" before they are acting unethically?

There’s always been this scene in the Clone Wars in season 2 episode 16 called Cat & Mouse. It was the episode Anakin was facing admiral Trench for the first time. Yularen comes down to tell Anakin that they were facing Trench. Anakin replies, “if I remember my military history wasn’t he vaporized at the Malastre narrows?” So what that tells me is that there was at least some military teaching from the Jedi. I could be reading too much into it but I always thought that if the Jedi were training to be warrior monks that they would also be learning about previous military engagements. Now the argument did they make great leaders? Some did and some didn’t...of course. However, at that time period there really wasn’t a lot of “leaders” to pick from with military experience. The clone commanders came fresh out of training. The judicials and local defense forces had some people with military experience but remember it was a time of peace in the Republic for a thousand years. There were experienced Admirals, and that’s who we mostly see in the clone wars. But really there wasn’t a lot of military experience going around. I would argue that the Jedi had the most experience because they had to solve conflicts and led task forces before the clone wars. However I do disagree with the fact that a Padawan suddenly becomes a commander just because he/she is a Jedi. There’s just so many lives that are at risk for an experienced officer at that position. My whole point being, yes the Jedi did not all make great leaders. However, looking at the Republic as a whole, there really weren’t a lot of experienced leaders to choose from.

Nice vid GenTech! I really like your analytical style.

This was great! I love the none biased approach

Nice vid actually agree with all points of it keep up the great work

Lord Hoth reminds me of general Sherman, and as Sherman put it, "war is cruelty, there's no sense in reforming it. The crueler it is the sooner it will be over."

Jedi are terrible soldiers. They need to have combat experience in order to lead. A Jedi Padawan out rank a clone captain. Like Rex says experience is everything. Of course as the war progresses more and more inexperience Jedi die and the veterans succeed.

I love how you cover the clone wars well with personality and bring realism to it

Hey man I’ve been watching your show since 40k subscribers. Still love your content, and you deserve the amount of followers you’re getting. Keep it up

*Looks at title* I mean in OG Battlefront 2 they were pretty goddamn powerful...

Wild that the Jedi were so unprepared to be generals in a war given that (granted, a long time ago) the Jedi had fought in large-scale war during the days of the Old Repulic!

2:28-2:30 yep that’s sound battlefront 2 alright

7:42 You just questioned the wisdom of the Judges and in particular Judge Dredd. The sentence is death.

Video idea: Pre Clone Wars (or during the start of the Clone Wars) how would you reform the Jedi to make the order more capable and robust, and just more effective? During the "Golden Age" how could a reformed Jedi prevent the situations leading up to the Clone Wars from arising - how could they fix the Republic. And how could they have adapted to be able to cope with the Clone Wars better once they started? And what if Qui-Jon is appointed Grand Master by Yoda, who goes into semi retirement - before the battle of Naboo obviously …

whats up, one-minute gang?

Otto von Bismarck - one of best leaders of Germany knew that sticking to ideology leads to many problems and always limits efficiency of institution. That’s why he created doctrine called „realpolitik”which main goal was to strenghten his country by choosing the most profitable option for Prussia and later Germany. To sum it up, if something isn’t going to give you anything but harm, you should do this even if you’r moral code says that you should. Jedi understand this in terms of stopping Sith from rebuilding their Empire, but high ranking masters on coruscant didn’t knew that sometimes brutal and aggresive tactics may actually reduce loses on both sides. Just compare Great War to a Operation Desert Storm to prove it.

Where did you get that sweet thumbnail?

God no! One of Palpatine’s masterstrokes was making all Jedi automatic generals that outranked everyone in the army AND navy. Not only did this force them to by nature betray their creed and values, but it also meant that they bore the brunt of the responsibility for much of the failures and death in the eyes of the public, thus undermining their trust in them. It’s absolutely ridiculous to make it so pandawans, literal children, automatically outranked everyone in the military, no matter their rank or experience level. The obvious dangers of this were shown when Asoka got nearly an entire flight of clone pilots killed because she got cocky. Sure she eventually grew into a good commander, but the same can’t be said for most padawans.

Motherf+cker: "We're keepers of the peace" Also motherf+cker and the boiz: *Arena Battle of Geonosis intensifies*

I think the Jedi should be trained to do separate tasks. For example, 25% of Jedi could be trained as military leaders, 25% of the Jedi should do all the politician work, 25% should serve as peacekeepers (protecting and fighting only when necessary) and 25% should be mostly forced based, to help predict the sith through meditations and less saber attacking.

My love for Star Wars is as deep as Alan’s V-Necks. Thank you for the content. I am Generation Tech.

Lord Hoth? Was the planet from Empire Strikes Back named after this guy? If so, I’d be interested in hearing the back story.

Do "what if Jaro Tapal survived order 66?"

Nice touch mentioning revan and the new Sith wars. I always kinda wonder if you took a jedi from that era, or the The old republic era's cold war and compared it to those of the clone wars who would make a better soldier/warrior. I know most that's legends now but it's still an interesting idea.

That thumbnail though is amazing.

Where's that thumbnail art from?

Imagine the empire trained force sensitive to act as a commander general where they would find any high ground and use the force to command battalion, platoons and such. And there would be one or two force each barrel to assist depending on large the bad is

how did traffic on coruscant work?

I wanna pose a question, how are physical traits that are species specific shared if mixed with human? or with others like Trogrutas, and Twi'leks, or Devaronian just wondering how their appearance would be decided?

The force is all I need

If the First battle of Geonosis was anything to go off of, they were terrible leaders, essentially just leading their Army in a straight line where the most Clone casualties would be taken. It isn’t until shows like 2008 Clone Wars where we got too see Jedi be proper Leaders and display their capabilities as peacekeeping warriors.

Soldiers: yes leaders: eh

Any way to snag a poster in the background?

Apparently Tano forgot about the Mandalorian Wars, the Great Hyperspace Wars, the wars with the Sith, or heck, the last 1000 years where the Jedi were ending wars left and right. Jedi were totally serving as soldiers then. That's what you call units who were running around striking down soldiers on the other side like Qui Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi were during the Trade Federation occupation of Naboo. Some would say they even served as the queen's royal guard, which would make them elite troopers. And considering they were constantly exposed to the real world through their missions as Padawans, they do know the real world rather well. Also, Jedi are pretty honest about the life they lead to their disciples. If someone doesn't want to live a life of sacrifice for the greater good, they can and DO walk out on the Order. Many apprentices never make it to Padawan and just walk out because the life of sacrifice just wasn't for them. Also, the Jedi didn't accept jack shit. They were ORDERED to fight for the Republic, even though they preferred to be peacekeepers, not soldiers-which goes to show that they didn't have a choice in the matter. They wanted to remain peacekeepers, the Republic needed soldiers and generals, and at the end of the day, the Republic controlled them. If the Jedi didn't lead the Clone Army, guys like Tarkin with a taste for mass-murder would, and you'd see Clones committing war crimes left and right. There was also one time when the Jedi DIDN'T fight for the Republic during a massive war. It was called the Mandalorian Wars, and the Jedi refusal to fight that war caused people to hate them and caused many Jedi to defect from them and join the war, even falling to the Dark Side to defeat the Mandalorians. If the Clone Wars Jedi refused to fight the Separatists, THAT is what would have happened. Other Jedi would turn against the Order and join Palpatine, while Palpatine would have an easier time turning public opinion against them for refusing to fight the war, which would easily justify the Clones turning on them once Palpatine declares the Republic an Empire and the Jedi object to it on the basis of democracy. So no, not fighting the Separatists would be as stupid as not fighting the Mandalorians 4000 years ago. Part of the reason why the Jedi Civil War-era Jedi were so hated was because they didn't fight for the Republic. The Clone Wars Jedi learned from that lesson, and when the Mandalorians started causing problems, they eradicated the Mandos, and when the Republic needed them to fight against the Separatists, the Jedi supported the Senate as they should have done during the Mandalorian Wars. Jedi tactics are great for summer wars (small wars between small factions, ie. Trade Federation vs. Naboo) because it's just about beating the enemy hard enough until they surrender without massive casualties. We saw this in EPI where Jedi-led Naboo forces defeated a much larger Trade Federation force by capturing Nute Gunray. For total war, however, Jedi will hesitate to strike the killing blow and kill millions to end conflicts. If the Jedi were on the Allied side during WWII, the Jedi would have been against dropping the atom bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for example, and they'd be totally against the air-bombing campaigns the Allies did that flattened whole German and Japanese cities, favoring instead the use of Force-sensitive dive-bombers to blow up those factories. Of course, that's where you Jedi-haters focus your ire-the Jedi are unwilling to commit to total war tactics to win the day, at least the Clone Wars Jedi aren't. Then again, when the Jedi DO commit to total war tactics, you guys complain. You guys complain that the Jedi won't do what's necessary for victory, then shit on them for fire-bombing the Sith Empire into extinction during the First Hyperspace War. Some of you guys complain that they nearly eradicated Jango Fett's Mandalorians. So what's the deal? If they firebombed CIS worlds and eradicated whole populations to cripple the CIS war effort in a short amount of time, you'd be calling them war criminals, but since they fight the CIS with one hand tied behind their backs you guys call them stupid and weak. Make up your mind, guys. I'm a Sith fan. My fan stories about Star Wars have Jedi getting captured and tortured or turned to the Dark Side. My idea of a Jedi hero skirts the line between dark and light (think Anakin, Revan, or Kyle Katarn). But part of being a Sith fan means respecting the opposition. The Jedi are worthy opponents, and great war leaders. Many times it was their leadership that prevented the fall of the Republic, from the Great Hyperspace War, the Exar Kun War, the Mandalorian Wars, the Jedi Civil War, the Great Galactic Wars, and the New Sith Wars. Without Jedi leadership, the Republic would have fallen. Heck, if Tarkin lived during the Great Hyperspace War or the Mandalorian Wars, he'd fall in love with Jedi like Revan who annihilated enemies down to the last man in battles. Tarkin was even friends with Dooku before the latter formed the Separatists, and Master Dooku obliterated Jango Fett's Mandalorians down to the last man, aside from Jango himself. Heck, even in times of peace, during the Republic Golden Age, the fact that the government demilitarized meant that the Jedi were worth their weight in gold. Despite being against demilitarization, the Jedi still maintained peace for 1000 years in the Republic using a small Republic militia as fire support against various Republic factions that would go rogue now and then. That shows real leadership. People feared them for good reason-because they won wars in mere days or hours that could have gone on for weeks, months, or years had it been just between commissioned officers and soldiers. They even crushed the Mandalorians TWICE-first during the Mandalorian Wars, second during the Battle of Galidraan. You people worship at the altar of the Mandalorians, thinking them as being better soldiers and tacticians than the Jedi, yet every time the two fought, the Mandalorians got smushed, and the only time a Mandalorian-style force defeated the Jedi was in Order 66, where the clones cowardly shot and betrayed their own Jedi commanders at the back, with only the 501st fighting the Jedi like real men out in the open, face-to-face. And of course, the strongest of the Jedi was helping the 501st instead of the Jedi, so the sole credit was not theirs. Whenever Jedi such as Cin Drallig became too problematic for the clones, Anakin would step in and bail their asses out. So yes, this whole anti-Jedi crap about them being bad at the military and how they shouldn't even fight in a war is proven wrong by millennia of Republic history where they were war leaders and great generals. They lost because of Order 66, and had they not fought the war at all, Palpatine could easily turn public opinion against them and charge them with treason, or encourage more hot-headed Jedi to leave the Order and become total war leaders like Revan once was.

That artwork of Obi Wan is so badass

*Reads title* "Probably not ,still gonna listen to Allan telling me why"

Jedi make perfect soldiers/leaders/ special forces. One example of a similar order here on earth were the Templar knights and Hospitilar knights. Some of the most disciplined and effective soldiers of the middle ages.

No way. Military ability is an art. Not a science.

4:12. The issue was that they were TOO deattached which makes them just ready to throw away whole platoons to finish the battle. While a good officer knows that losing soldiers under his/her command is a thing that will happen, they make sure that their plans bring as many of them back alive when available. Every person to come back from a battle is someone with experience and skill to succeed next time. The Jedi way of just throwing soldiers is a waste of men who have battlefield experience.

Best insight, imagine if the Jedi in the CW had to kill sentients...

The fact that the separatist were using droids allowed the jedi to not have any feelings towards them and kill them without mercy. Which also allowed the galaxy to see the kind of ruthlessness the jedi were capable of, which added to their already set bias towards them. Plus the clones being what can honestly be called a lesser form of human doesn't make them look like humanitarians. I swear palpatine put so much thought and effort into destroying the jedi it's no wonder the empire was barely gonna last that long. Dude made a plankton face and said "idk I didnt think I would get this far"

I think the Jedi should have acted in the same way as Space Marines in Warhammer 40k and by that I mean have there own separate units and budget from the main military.

I'm afraid that the Jedi had atrophied greatly over the long peace in their roles as military leaders, the Republic had produced some extraordinary Jedi Generals, but that's also when there was a Republic military. A Jedi like Bastila Shan with her battle meditation would make a fantastic commander, but just slapping the same rank on every lightsaber wielder doesn't take a lot of the variables into account.

Awesome thumbnail

They were just inexperienced.

Ima need that cover picture.

For some reason, the moment that I dont see Alan's face I start to imagine Yong Yea's face. They sound so alike, yet they look so different. Its so weird

Do a what if Tarkin had commanded the GAR

Kinda off topic of this video. But I was watching Revenge of the Sith yesterday. All the videos I've watched on palpaltine I never heard anyone talk about when palpaltine and Windu was fighting. You hear palpaltine say something like "endless power" after Vader cuts Windu's arm off and before palpaltine throws him out the window. Or did I hear things? Thoughts?

Roll play wise my master chose to lead (eventually falling to the dark side and slaughters clones left and right when order 66 happened) where I chose to lean on my clone officers and naval officers and there experience. staying out of the way of there superior command acting more like a front line advisor and observer or the from 3 tank for the clones to pull back. No clone was expendable to me. Alternately I was almost killed by those same clones in order 66 but cos I was not just stuck in the command structure all the time it let me escape knowing every level of the clones hierarchy inside and out.

*looks at first Battle of Geonosis* *looks at pretty much any battleplan devised by Jedi during the Clone Wars* _Studied Republic officers laugh and clone officers (literally bred for combat and strategising) cry out in anger_ No. No, they weren’t.

Darth Sidious knew this if the separatist military were made up of flesh and blood individuals the Jedi would have been reluctant to engage. But droid armies could be cut down in endless waves without the Jedi's ethics getting the way. Pretty ingenious really. Where as the Sith of the past kept waging total war on the Jedi every few hundred years Sidious turned that war into a giant trap. When the Sith revealed themselves the Jedi knew war was on the horizon because a Sith war was annual event in the galaxy. Sidious however orchestrated both sides resulting in all the blasters of every soldier on the battlefield eventually being leveled at the Jedi. The Jedi didn't help themselves at all by attempting an illegal coup.

You would think that Jedi Guardians, the warriors of the Jedi Order, would make excellent soldiers

I love you Allen

You have no idea what being a “soldier” is like. Half the time these days we can’t tell our enemy and citizens apart. So we have a crap load of rules and regulations we have to follow before even drawing our weapon

They still commanded the republic to Victory, and the order has a past of leading and collaborating with the armies of the republic to Victory

I keep hearing them use that 'We're keepers of the peace not soldier" or "We weren't trained to be soldiers" *YET* all the Jedi have ever been for the republic are front line warriors and are literally trained to fight and kill sith by nature?????

they could be chaplains instead of commanding elements. this would fit their role quite well, as the command element can take suggestions, and the jedi don't have to keep their eye on the overall picture, they just focus on ethical matters.

I bet the Jedi seeking action at the archives regretted it during order 66 🤣🤣🤣

Great vid! Learnt a lot. They selected young Force-sensitive children with the right “temperament”.... Yeh and that was to their detriment. The Council should have learnt to train any temperament. Of that child could grow to be a weapon against them. That and learning how to train all ads variety and diversity to the religion/Jedi way. I like that the Jedi way was called a religion (in the original trilogy) because lack of an open mind can be detrimental to faith and hope, and therefore action.

so if not general what other roles would fit the jedi during the clone wars? i know their where jedi healers so some can serve as medics, and they can also be diplomates paired with senators to help make treaties with cis and republic planets. i mean yes their where some jedi that where very good at general but that was a small fraction and they should have been put in officer school like any other ranking official.

My general understanding is that the jedi were pretty competent overall and their ethics rarely complicated the mission (although that certainly did happen). I guess admirals just didn't like sharing power and had an inherent elitism, rather than justified complaints. I didn't realize that the jedi actually didn't care THAT much about the Republic. It makes me wonder why precisely the sith and jedi fight instead of just staying out of the way. Let the sith rule and the jedi live in their isolated sanctuaries. I always thought a peace keeper is an oxymoron, personally. Jedi were essentially the ninja-wizard equivalent of a SWAT team. Really doubt they took the majority of combatants captive, but even if they did, they used violence to keep peace, even outside of a galactic war.

Hey I’ve got a question... Alliance+empire vs rebublic+cis Or allipire vs rebublicis IMO the rebublicis would win 9 times outa 10 bc they can spam buzz droids and also they have numbers and better troops and ships

You mentioned that it was fortunate for the Jedi that the Separatists used droids so they wouldn't be fighting and killing living beings (though they did at various times in the war). I would actually go so far as to speculate that was precisely the reason that Sidious built the Confederacy the way that he did. For his plan to succeed, the Jedi had to be drawn into the war and they would have been much more willing to enter the war fighting against machines (or in their minds, protecting innocents from those machines). You might even make the case that he was laying the ground work for this during the Phantom Menace, establishing how serious a threat a droid army could pose and letting the Jedi face them up close and personal.

Republic felt like Jedi were the only people with galactic experience at all. Some military, some diplomacy, some governing, locations, and geography. Not to mention an already established command structure. Almost like they were a medieval lord over the land that just because they were educated and experienced it made them the best choice you had in reasonable numbers.

Love that dig at the UN

Honestly the closest thing to a battle field roll the jedi should have had is stand next to the person leading the battle on whatever planet /fleet they are on to protect from assassins and only be out right deployed as sith hunters when one is seen on the battlefield nothing more

Perfectly stated.

Ima need that thumbnail, for real.

Anakin was right the jedi where lost

“We should always look at the individual” cause like there isn’t any group of identical soldiers fighting for the republic lol I just found it funny of course for the most part he is right

Rip Jaro Tapal

1 view 3 likes I love democracy

About individualism: Yeah I agree with that. The Jedi Knights are the focus of the story because they are the heroic versions of what soldiers wish they could be. That doesn't mean they are perfect in decision making it just means that with spiritual and mental discipline you are able to handle battle much better due to foresight. Without foresight, education, and intelligence you are just like the droids that only take orders because the guy above you says so. You don't have to think since the guy above you does it for you. But the Jedi are guided by the Force a supreme intellect that allows them to perceive things normal people can't. The difference between a soldier is he is trained, but not educated. Two different things. It's the difference between a dog that obey master's command loyally but can't think for themselves to question if the instruction is the best coarse of action, and a person that thought of a idea themselves and executed it and learned through being self taught. That is not training! That is adapting to changing circumstances by coming up with unorthodox method to solve problems. You will not get this from soldiers or drones. Remember that the clones were not normal people: they were mind controlled and trained at young age to think a certain way which limits their ability to do anything themselves much like communist.

I think I know what the answer from pro-Imperial propaganda is going to be😏 They were poor tacticians though cause it wasn’t their job for a thousand of years but they learned on the way quickly.

4:32 an unarmed opponent or........ A Disarmed one?!?!

My issue is the Jedi commanders did not train outside the order or receive the training in tactics and protocol needed. You would not let a Civilian trained police chief lead an army. Most Jedi at this point are monks. Not soldiers. I would have had jedi serving in the clone division train along side them as early as possible. They need to learn the use of weapons of the trade. Even Obi-wan could use a blaster with proficiency. According to comics blaster bolts can be force directed as they are energy. Modern canon has them being slowed so a working knowledge of weapons is a must for soldiers.

Good point about thee UN blue helmets lol