Ok, I must first say I enjoy watching your videos. I represent a distillation equipment company and I am opening a rum distillery in the Virgin Islands. I also teach distilling and the virtuous cycles such as Backset cycles and the use of Dunder in rum. Backset and Dunder are not the same things. Backset is the use of Stillage in the next or future batch. Dunder is when you take your stillage and create an uncontrolled bacterial infection with it. Rum distilleries of old just dumped the stillage in pits behind the still (the stills were usually outdoors) then they would use this muck to top off (water in the Caribbean is and always has been scarce) the fermentation. In modern use, it is usually added post fermentation but pre distillation as to not infect the fermentation but still get the funk (think Jamaican rum) of the older styles with diminished risks and modern yield. I hope this clarifies (or funks up) the confusion.
If you stand the molasses container in boiling water the molasses will transition from "heavy grease" to "gear oil" consistency at which it's easier to pour and easier to mix.
Bakers use the same technique with bread. They add a piece of the last bread into the next batch's dough to transfer some yeast and nutrients (Dunder). But live Dunder is the same as a technique where you keep a live sample of rye bread dough alive and use it to make bread every time you run out and then separate the dough back out without cooking it to keep the bacteria cultures alive.
I love how you share so much information. In this case explaining what dunder is. Thank you for not being a dirty hold out on your info. It is this that makes your channel so great.
Just started a dunder pit..... but without any backset. I'm making a corn whiskey using 3 pounds of Walmart frozen corn (run through my Omega 900 slow auger juicer) and 2 pounds of crushed two row barley for it's diastic power, along with some AG3000 fugal amylase to help the mash convert better. The strained out hulls from the corn and barley were added to water, along with a generous amount of molasses, and a handfull or two of crushed barley for the lactobacillus that lives on it and is often used for kettle souring beer. This was all well mixed in a stockpot, and set on a seedling mat to ferment and sour. I added my veggie and fruit scraps from the kitchen, including apple cores, bananna skins, and various trimmings, and later added some of my home brewed kefir and kombucha, and a cheese culture (propionic shermani was the only one I had). It's been fermenting nicely, with a rich yeasty sour smell, and in a week or so, I'll strain out all the solids. This should make a nice dunder, if not an authentic Jamaican rum dunder, it should lend some funk when added to my rum wash before distillation. The rum backset will go into the dunder pit, which will be continued. I may try using some of this in my corn whiskey if I like the results from the rum.
Hi Jesse, You should turn over the aluminium power regulator so that it has the cooling fins pointing up. You are now trapping the heat inside the "radiating" part of the aluminium (heat moves up). I use the same one and mounted a small fan on it. It keeps it nice and cool during the run, which greatly extends it lifespan
My current wash is 4L molasses, 2kg brown sugar, 2L of off the shelf pineapple juice (mainly for the acid) and 25L of water. I use a couple of litres of the last wash to start the next one.
Absolutely love your videos - worth watching just to hear your demented laugh. Curious as to your feelings or intentions going forward about incorporating a thumper. Keep up the great work.
You're so fun; thanks so much! I was at a discount store and saw some really high quality molasses for pennies on the dollar, so I had to get it. You've given me the courage to make some Rum!
So ya thanks. I might add gat a barrel . With a pour spout. Sort of sterile add spent wash in it every time still hot, ferment a run add half to it from barrel. Repeat replace half bbl at end of run.
The way I deal with the Dunder in the still is to add about 15-20% of it to my next wash then reduce 8-10 litres of it down to 2lts on the stove and freeze that, then next stripping run defrost that concertante and add it to the still. If you use to much Dunder in your wash you run the risk of the wash stalling or going really slow.
I found putting my black strap in relatively hot water ( my hot water is really hot, so might want to heat some on a stove a bit) for a period of time, makes it come out of the container easier.
So let me get this straight... Dunder is the name of the elephant, whom you killed because he was a cannibal. Is that right? I'll be honest, I was a little distracted during the video.
You are an absolute wizard of distilling. I was feeling the same type of wonder when I was getting into arpanet (the internet) back in the late 80,s and early 90's. Though, sometimes I think I'll be able to grow my own pot plants before I'll be able to legally distill legally. I can't wait to see your rum tastings. Awesome, dude!
No way man. I am still a padawan. Heh, yeah you are not wrong. Im happy you will be able to grow your pot plants if you so choose and I hope stills go the same way soon!
@ 9:12 you started to get it wrong. Whether you use dunder fresh or aged, use it as a water replacement. Use more or less as you like, it helps to develop the rum oil. Also, after that you started to refer to dunder as back set after you explained it well enough? Molasses wash = rum= dunder Grain wort = whisky = backset Cheers
Thats exactly how I have been doing it. Did a lot of searching and reading in the beginning (about 6 years ago) like Jessie. These days I just do a basic transfer of the last 3 inches of my 30l wash to the next wash to kick it off. Then I use the ends of my distill runs to flavour the next runs. My 12 month kegged product now is almost indistinguishable from Pusers blue label, which I am pretty happy about because I like that rum.
Yes Jessie you never talked about throwing away the foreshots. I made my rum 2 weeks ago and only got 2 liters of Rum after cuting it with water out of 25 liters pale.
At first I was like "what's this dude know about rum?" But then I heard the accent and thought, "He come from the land of dunder"......see what I did there?
You're too kind...I appreciate your site, because you are handling some technical stuff in an approachable way, and the bit about "plastic" was funny, because reading the forums about plastic is a guilty pleasure, like watching a bar fight from the sidelines...
Molasis raw sugar hot water stir add coconut water 3 4 litres fill to 23 litres or so add yeast when temp is cool enough wait few days distill then add contents to wood chips keep in a place where it will be relatively cool one part of the day warmer in arvos thus aging process the longer the better and darker the rum i used charred cubes and rods in my buckets.
I'm so pumped for these videos. Just curious what the use of the lemon is for? Does lemon help raise the pH? Or is it used as a nutrient? I was under the impression that dunder itself is high pH so lemon maybe wasn't as necessary? Awesome work man, we are so thankful for these videos.
Yeah lemon for pH adjustment. I will drop them next round. But seeing as it's the first go round with dunder it's not that acidic yet. I probably could have left them out now. But I was not going to push it over the edge.
Cheers to you too. I'm in Kentucky in the USA. When I was 8 years old, 1987, my family distilled a large quantity of bourbon whiskey. To drink non bourbon in these parts is punishable by death. Long story short, it was only supposed to be aged in a dozen oak casks until 1997. A whole bunch of ugly shit went down in my family. It's now about to be May 2024 and it still sits in the cellar. Most of the bad blood is gone because nearly all of them are dead. Hoping 2025 will be the year. Cheers.
cool stuff jess, but i am so green at this i have been chucking the stuff at the bottum of my bucket and the stuff left over after the stilling. so now i have a new step to try thanks.
Both are optional so it's really up to you mate. Depending on the recipe it may be worth "washing" your yeast to remove some crud. Good it if your interested. The home Brewers will have you covered 🥃
Let me just paste an official definition here: "Dunder. Caribbean term for the non-volatile residue from rum distillation, which during storage supports the growth of a mixture of micro-organisms. When stored dunder is added with yeast to a subsequent fermentation, these organisms provide a richer flavour to the rum than would yeast alone." So yeah, what's left from the stripping run is going into next fermentation because it's so rich in year nutrients. Those spent washes (another term from whisky industry) are sitting in a huge wooden vat somewhere under the sky and slowly wildly fermenting and doing all kinds of funky stuff live organisms do in warm and nutrient-rich environment. This is then only added to dark heavy rum washes like your Jamaican or Guyana rums, while light rums (light Bacardi, Havana club etc) are not using anything like that. Historically it was just a way to optimise production. Nowadays the reason is simple - light rums are using pure yeast strains to produce light and pure taste without many weird acids and esters (aroma-flavour components). Dark rums are using both pure and wild yeasts and other bacteria to get as complex aroma and taste as possible. Complex - could sometimes mean off-putting, btw. Also usually they might keep pure yeasts at bay for first several days by having high acidity of the wash and\or (relatively to optimal yeast's) low temp, so that more esters are developed initially and also some believe that making pure yeast struggle a bit and fight for nutrients with other yeast is making better-tasting alcohol in the end.
I’m still sitting on this fermentation. Delivery service lost my molasses in the mail :(. So I sound 20kg of raw cane sugar and cooked up a batch of home made molasses. Had a SG of 1.102 so I can’t wait to see what I get out of it.
Hahaha well I enjoyed it. I can see why people could object though 🤣🤣 Funnily enough this tastes very little like the rum I have had in the past (mostly Bacardi). I'm going to have to get a bottle of some jamacin style pot stilled rum to try.
Agreed, thats actually a great write up. But have a look around at what newbies are asking. And a few other things to ponder. No right or wrong answers. Just talking points etc. Have you come across info in other places that contradict that? Would you trust a answer wiki gave you on how to run a still? I also hazard a guess that you have a decent amount of understanding before you made that Google search? Cheers 😀🥃
Distilling newbie here, doing some fact finding before embarking on my virgin journey. Love the channel, it is by far the most accessible resource for a beginner i have come across. What are your thoughts on BBs recommendation to use cloth to filter out fusel oils during the stripping run? I didn't see any mention of it in your video and wondered if you didn't think it necessary or if some other step made it obsolete?
Looks like a great first run! You can never go wrong buying ingredients in bulk! So I have a question, and idea. Question: so you do a stripping run of generation 1. You ferment out gen 2. How do you mix these in the second run? Do They stay separate, do we mix some and then keep gen 1, and gen 2 for gen 3? I am guessing there is no right answer here, or maybe their is. Ok idea.... I was reading a bunch of mash bills. I am a bourbon / whiskey kind of guy. Hey don't judge. :-) So most out there run a 70 to 80 percent corn, with barely and rye making up the rest. Makers Mark uses no rye, but wheat. Has anyone tried a recipe for sour mash with mostly wheat, but a little rye to give it some bite? Honestly I haven't seen any major distillery with that bill. Might be worth trying, even if it is a trial run. Perhaps the rye would.squash any flavor from the wheat. I honestly don't know. Great work Jesse! You said Marmite! Good stuff Hahahaha
How's it going mate. Yep you can use it as you want really. Add the low wines into the next run, collect low wines up over a 3-5 runs then do a all low wines run. Or just run spirit runs from the get go. Up to you really :). Interesting question mate. I would be Keen to taste that for sure. Honestly it's not something I have looked into a whole lot. So I don't really!
Well then that would make some interesting cuts for sure. There is a mother few sets if videos to be sure. Which is better, what are the differences, oh the options! I will keep my eye out for more recipes. Again sour mash can be all corn or a combination. Now if they would only legalize it in California! I got so many ideas!! :-)
I'm still a noob but I've done an uncrushed wheat (straight from the harvester) sour mash, 3gens approx 10-20% backset, adding low wines back to each run so final product '2.5 x distilled' (I think) 'aged' on ex wine barrel oak or oak cubes 10g/L for 2ish months. Still only a few months old but very smooth and mild tasting (almost Irish in style) even at 55%! Very sippable but not quite top shelf yet 🤔 but then I'm trying to aim for $100-150ish/bottle quality mark (I know I'm dreaming but gotta aim somewhere)
So i was in the process of distilling my first bach of rum, following along with your video, 25l still just got up to temperature then the bloody drain tap falls off my still. What a damn mess haha. Managed to save half of it and somehow (im not even sure how i got it there) get most of the rest down the sink. Its all over the white walls, down the cupboards and even got some carpet to clean up. Nevertheless, i will get a new tap and continue tomorrow. Might even look into getting a stainless ball valve to replace the plastic not so fantastic factory tap...
I’ve done a version of this without dunder. Since I’ve never heard of it til now but I’m going to try it. Also just curious what the lemon does? My next go round I will try to follow this process closer
So why dont you use dady yeast bro it would up your abv and make more spirits or alcohol since u strip anyways im wondering why the low abv yeast flavor or something
My passion is flavour from ferment. Even for vodka/gin I enjoy the flavour that's carried over from the ferment. If your going to do that you need to minimize the "bad" flavours and max the "good" to start with. Pushing abv higher gets more economy, but it does tend to make that min/max harder. Also, honestly this was a while ago now haha. Cheers
Gday Jesse . Love you channel mate . I am making my version of buccaneer bobs rum with dunder and molasses which is pretty bloody good . But then again I may be a wee bit biassed 😁😁. I would like your thoughts on sg readings with all that stuff in the wash . I get 1160 with 10 ltrs of dunder - 16 kg raw sugar - 3 ltrs blackstrap molasses in a 60 ltr wash . Finish is 1100 sg . My yield is around 7 ltrs . What do you reckon . Cheers Bill
Hey Bob Great little film Thanks for sharing Thinking of getting a still for my robobrew To make bourbon, rum, pastice, and gin Looking at T500 or alembic in copper with a copper condenser Any thoughts please Thanks again Cheers
I have the alembic dome with the pot still condenser and it works great. Sipping on a great Gin right now. Much easier than the reflux column. An inexpensive way to get into distilling, a little over $200 on Amazon and you are off and running.
Hey Jesse, in either of your runs - stripping or spirit, did you have any packing in your column? I don't think you used reflux either on the rum, but just to confirm, you did a straight open (no packing, no reflux) strip and spirit run on this?
Hey man, loving your channel! I'm learning loads from you and everyone else on Reddit and the home distiller forum. I'm still quite the noob, and have read tons, but this is my first question into the giant discussion of home distilling. What I can't seem to find is any solid answer about how to begin the actual molasses run (either spirit or stripping)... did you take the wash straight from the fermentation vessel into the still, or as some suggest, to preheat the wash and leave it settle for a few days? I'm having nightmares of running a wash and ending up with a still full of tar. Yikes! Would love to get a pro tip on that.
Haha yeah I hear you on that one mate. A good portion of the sugars should have fermented out (although not as much as most other recipies). So it's not going to be nearly as sticky as before. I just let mine settle for a day or two after fermentation is done ....or I don't haha.... Then right into the boiler. I don't pre heat just straight in there. My only concern is scortching. But that should be fine unless you are using a very concentrated heat source. The other is puking. . . . Don't fill the still too full with rum ;)
One other thing I found out through a mistake. I didn't let my spirit cool to 60 degrees before cutting it and a couple of days later i tested what I thought was 45% ended being only 32% ABV
in scotch the dunder / backset is called pot ale. i find my pot ale smells almost like cow shit which is interesting because my spirits are fruity and grassy
I interesting! Are you using peat by any chance? I could see it going that way. I have not heard a lot about backset for scotch! I will need to look into that more, thanks :)
Still It i make unpeated becouse i prefer lighter spayside scotch. They dont use it in scotch im just refering to the name of the stuff left in the boiler after a stripping run. I think you were saying dunder was stuff left in the boiler after a run, that some was added to the next batch of wash.
Ahhhh right I'm with you. I do have to wonder what it would do to the flavours in all barley mash. I have moved away from the lighter scotches a little. But I think I need to go back again.
Just watched this series: ru-vid.com/show-UCShTuJvbPKSqNqWNs0TtzZwvideos which was interesting. It seems that he uses everything in the boiler for his next stripping run!
Sorry but WFT would you take cuts from a stripping run? - that does not make any sense. You take your cuts from your final/spirit run. The whole purpose of a stripping run is to do just that - strip as much alcohol as you can get economically out of your wash - no cuts required.