6:41 *The Doctor:* _"Maybe he has a face that you don't know about."_ *River:* _"He has limits."_ Just as others have noted, *River* believes the *Doctor* is limited in his regenerations, like all Time Lords.
to her knowledge his final life was 11 which of course it originally was until clara convinced the time lords to give him another one....which river has no knowledge of
This is one of my favourite episodes, even though it makes me cry a lot. I love the speech that River gives about how the doctor doesn’t love her. His “Hello sweetie” was a great callback.
Remember, Time Lords can only re-generate 12 times! (That was established in Classic Who - it was also mentioned in Time of the Doctor.) River didn't know that he was given an extra cycle of regenerations. Also, on screen she has only seen Ten (briefly) and Eleven. However, she does interact with a few other Doctors in the Big Finish audio adventures (but, of course, they can't know who she is because Ten didn't know her!).
@@malcolmdrake6137 To be fair, that was the thinking before Chibnall got his greasy mitts on the lore and messed everything up. It'll be interesting to see of RTD addresses the proverbial elephant in the room, or perhaps he'll just ignore it. Either way, it'll have to be by the 24th's Doctor's reign comes to an end which, given we've gone through 5 doctors in 10 years, may not be that far away.
The Big Finish audiobooks go into the MANY meetings of River and the other versions of the Doctor. Indeed the whole story arc of 'The Diary of River Song' series is wrapping up with a final story released before the 60th Anniversary.
River has read that this may be their last night together but nothing about her actually dying the next time they meet. She's still sad about it of course but the Doctor is sadder because he knows what she doesn't. Did you notice (or did your Patreons point out) that the Doctor not only gives her a screwdriver but scans her with it so that David Tennant can use the data to save her? Also that this story happens (as far as River is concerned) in between Angels Take Manhattan and Silence in the Library. With a 24 year "honeymoon" between this and the library stories, of course. I am never quite sure how much of a gap there is between Amy and Rory being cast into the past and River marrying Hydroflax but I'm guessing that seeing her parents vanish and deciding that she couldn't travel with the Doctor permanently left her a bit "adrift" and she reverted for a while to her younger more reckless ways.
I love this episode so much. Watching it along with 4x8-9 (River's first ep) is especially impressive. Many of the callbacks are obvious, but here's one people often miss: the last line of 9x13 is "I hate you. / No, you don't". River and Eleven say this to each other several times in their episodes. But in 4x9 River says "I hate you" to Ten and he responds "I know" because he, ironically, doesn't know their rapport yet. That may just be coincidence (unlike "a new haircut and a suit", which is definitely referenced explicitly at the start of 9x13), but I think it's neat. 10:42 / 12:09 I love your editing! It's subtle but cheeky. Often reactors switch from their face to a full-screen clip of something else for a few seconds, and that works fine for some people, but your popup method really suits your videos well.
I loved River and thought that Alex played her perfectly. I'd love to see her again, and if they could re-introduce her and have her regenerate, I'd be very happy. The humour in this one makes it one of my favourite episodes
I doubt they will. But she is saved to a hard drive in the library, and there might be ways to download her into a flesh body or auton or something. Also, since the library is like the matrix on gallifrey in some sense, the time lords could resurrect her.
I think she's aware that the Doctor (and timelords in general) can only regenerate a set number of times, and is also aware of every single one of those faces. Him having a face she didn't know about was just implausible for her.
Best. "Hello Sweetie". Ever. My second favourite Christmas special, most days (maybe _except_ when the wind stands fair :). Supremely Who in that it's utterly ridiculous and kind of beautiful.
So, the bald guy, is Matt Lucas he's a UK comedian, very popular. He got a role in Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland as Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee. Also the husband that was Beheaded was another big UK comedian (literally, he's like a giant sized he's like 6'8"+ guy!!) But he's also hugely famous he did a show called Taskmaster, where he gives other UK comedians tasks to do, as well as a popular stand up comedian, he's called Greg Davies and is worth searching for his stuff.
As far as River's concerned the Doctor can only have 12 faces. She doesn't know about him being granted an extra regeneration cycle at the end of Matt's era. I mean, honestly you think you know someone and it turns out they can have more than 12 faces. I do love the speech on the spaceship, it's both funny and heartbreaking. I cry and laugh at it every time.
The doctor can't change River's death and he knows it, which is why he is upset when she makes clear that she expects him to do so. If you recall, River sacrificed herself at the library because otherwise the doctor would have been the one in the chair and he would have died. As she said quite eloquently right before she died, if he died in the library then they would have had no time together because all of their time together was ahead for him. Even a regeneration right after that moment might have changed their entire timeline and she loved their relationship too much to give any of it up - she told him "don't you change a single line!" Even her conception in the tardis was dependent on the behavior of the 11th doctor and his relationship with Amy and Rory - which means her conception was dependent on the time of his regeneration from 10 to 11 (the tardis needed to crash at that specific time and location for him to bond with Amy.) So the timeline was too tricky to mess with. River was right when she commented in the library before she died that the doctor knew HOW she died from the beginning, even before he knew how important she was to him. So very tough for him, and gives us another perspective on what he has to deal with internally. I think he was avoiding Darillium, but when they crashed there he realized that he was stuck with the situation and might as well make the best of it. When she got to the library (her future, his past) and saw what she was going to have to do to keep their relationship, she realized that he had known at Darillium that Darillium was almost the end of their relationship. The weird part is that HE knew Darillium was the end because she had told him that (as 10) right before she died. This time travel stuff makes my head spin! Brilliant plot line.
That moment of realization on River's part is definitely a highlight of the episode. Personally, my favourite bit is when the whole unimaginable scenario that is his new regeneration cycle and the events surround it become, "A thing happened!" Pure minimalism at it's finest, and certainly a welcome change from the tech- and exposition heavy laden bits of dialogue we used to get. :D
Did you miss the fact that he slyly scanned her information into the sonic he gave her when he gave it to her. Also, don't forget the Dr told her that she had 24 yrs left from that point. They may have had yrs together b4 the Library to have some married cpl time.
The reasoning on River having some kind of character change between here and the Library River: 24 years may change her. And the Library is just the next time she sees the Doctor, but that does not mean she can't change and grow some more. She has a whole life without the Doctor too -- married but not "companions". She's more than that -- and has adventures of her own. So yeah, I agree. Library River from Name of the Doctor is the most mature River we've seen up to this point. It was good to see this one seeming younger than that. Worth mentioning the Diaries of River Song audio dramas by Big Finish. Especially for "seeing the other Doctors with her own eyes".
Many people miss the fact that timelords have a fixed number of regenerations. The Doctor had exceeded these. River knows what all the generations look like and so will not assume any others are the Doctor.
There is an audio drama that river meats the 4th doctor and river at this point thought that the doctor only had 12 lives and Matt smith was his last incarnation, the river from name of the doctor was after she had died in the library
“A Christmas Carol” is still my favourite Christmas special, but this is a very close second for me. It threads the line between bawdy campy pantomime and heartfelt sincere romance beautifully, and ties off River’s story perfectly, while also building off the Doctor’s arc from the end of series 9 really well. Also, Peter Capaldi and Alex Kingston play off each other wonderfully and are an absolute delight to watch. This was originally going to be Moffat’s last episode as showrunner, before he was convinced to do one more series, but it would’ve been a fantastic end to his tenure if it had been; a perfect fairytale ending to his distinctly fairytale era
I love this episode. 2nd or 3rd favorite Christmas special on my list. I still get a bit choked up toward the end. "The towers sang and you cried. What a night that was."
Good to see you again. At the time of posting, there are more series and specials for you to catch up on, and more upcoming specials and series for all of us to enjoy (no spoilers, Sweetie). But, if the day ever comes that we are all watching new episodes of Doctor Who, around the same time, just remember there are 26 seasons of Doctor Who (and seven Doctors), to catch up with, too. Happy times and places!
River knew that Timelords can only regenerate 12 times, so with 10 doing it twice, he could only have 12 faces. She even mentioned in the scene where she showed all the faces, that he had limits.
Thanks for keeping your reactions going. I found your channel when you first started doctor who and I was going to re-watch along with you. Unfortunately time and relative... But here I find you still going with Kingston and Capaldi! I really missed your reactions. Keep it up. Love this episode these two were brilliant together.
In time of the doctor, the doctor stated timelords can regenerate 12 times and the 11th doctor had used all of them. Then he got more regenerations out of a crack and River didn't know
My headcanon is that from River's point of view it's been many years since she's seen the Doctor, and her thinking has spiralled a bit, perhaps rationalising a sense of abandonment, so that's why she's decided at this point he didn't/doesn't love her.
Others have mentioned it already but there are lots of audio drama stories where River meets some of the other doctors on Big Finish- highly recommend checking them out when you get a chance because there's some really good adventures there. Personally I highly recommend the set "The Tenth Doctor And River Song"- its a wonderfully done collection of "episodes" that was made during the height of covid and Alex Kingston and David Tennant bounce off of each other so well in it!
I think it never crossed her mind that there might be another face because her Doctor gave her all his faces (remember he was supposed to be the last regeneration) and she trusts him implicitly.
The Doctor being confused for the surgeon & River's blindness to his real identity did strain belief, but this was the kind of story that you just go along for the ride with... and its a fun ride if you wondered what adventures the 'psychopath' was having on her own. Big Finish cleverly had her meet the earlier Doctors without breaking canon
Hello! I just came across a compilation video of fans reacting to Jodie Whittaker's regeneration. To my surprise, you were in that video but I can't find your reactions from season 10 onwards. Where can I find your newest reaction videos? Excited to see you discover Ncuti's first episode and Maestro and the fugitive Doctor's arc and everything else I missed from you. Best regards from Paris
Hi! Thanks so much for letting me know about the video - I had to stop editing for RU-vid due to work/school commitments. This person pledged for my Patreon, grabbed content, and used it in their video without my permission or knowledge, so I'm grateful for the alert. I'm sorry I haven't been editing! Hopefully one day I can catch up! XOXO FWR
If river was ever to return after this beautiful ‘ending’ it would have to be alongside 12 during their years at the singing towers in a multi doctor story before the library, anything else would ruin this episode. During the 60th would make the most sense to do this if ever, if river met 14 before meeting 10 at the library, it would make sense her recognising 10 as being younger than 14..
She's actually long since caught up on Patreon. I can remember seeing a compilation video for reactions to 13's regeneration in the Centenary and hers was one of them
River was expecting the Surgeon (totally different Time Lord*) not the Doctor. She also had not been informed that he had regenerated past 11th Doctor - as far as she knew once he died he couldn't regenerate. (with the War Doctor and that regeneration Tenent used up to keep the same face messing up the count so that 11 was actually 13 - the last regeneration). She knew that a version of the Doctor was around when she saw the Tardis but he only had 12 face (as in her photo album) and she hadn't seen any of them. And he'd never noticed when she "borrowed" the Tardis before - so not all of her adventures require a temporal vortex manipulator. And he also scanned her with the screwdriver before he gave it to her, So her memory pattern is recorded in it and he can deposit it in the library. This is the end of the flow chart - The Husbands of River Song - The Silence in hte Librarr/The Forest of the Dead- The Name of the Doctor Oo the end of the *Joke - but considering The Doctor, the Master, the Corsair - why not the Surgeon?
I like River Song but i'm not as invested in the character as most people are sometimes she can be irritating and sometimes i think she's awesome but i'm not keen on her origin story i would had liked it better if she was just another Time Lord who can regenerate instead of making her Amy & Rory's daughter and giving her regenerative abilities because she was born in the TARDIS which i found to be lazy writing but apart from that she's great however that being said i think she has a better chemistry with Peter Capaldi's Doctor than she does with Matt Smith or David Tennant. I don't think i would had liked to have seen The Doctor and River kiss because i actually agree with River because the Doctor is a 2000 year old a-sexual alien he doesn't go round falling in love with people i mean he does love River but he's not "in" love with her he's beyond all that. I'm not saying whether she returns or doesn't this is just my opinion i think River Song has a nice wrapped up story here but if she appears again then she appears again but i think it would be a mistake if they brought her back now as i feel this is a bittersweet ending for her character here. But either way great story very fun and of course the introduction of new companion Nardole as played by Matt Lucas who you might know from a show called "Little Britain".
She's on patreon mostly now I think. She's got up to the Giggle on there now. Not sure if she'll be back on RU-vid to start uploading more reactions on here or not
