Does Patrick Mahomes need to pass Tom Brady in Super Bowl rings to be the GOAT? | NFL | SPEAK 

Check out the What’s Wright? with Nick Wright podcast: sprtspod.fox/WhatsWright_YT

Who would argue that Terry Bradshaw was a better QB than Dan Marino? It isn't just rings, it is stats and the eyeball test.

Winning 7 going to 10 plus winning one of those in Tampa along with dominating in his 40's(including going through Mahomes for 2 SB's)makes Brady so uniquely great he will always have a solid argument for the GOAT. He completely shattered the mold in longevity, SB appearances, and most of all SB wins.

Acho is a brilliant dude. I’m Convinced he takes some stands for the sake of TV… Cause some things he says logic is just so flawed because he’ll make an similar take in a day or 2 about different people but that same logic suddenly won’t apply

James, not only does Eli have the two rings-he best Rodgers to get one of them 😂

I love how h2h is discredited because of the dynamics of the sport, yet Josh Allen gets killed for h2h record even considering his great numbers.

Two things to pick up… it’s funny how when Brady beat Mahomes EVERY TIME IN THE POST SEASON, all of a sudden “they don’t play each other, they play the defences”… yet just two weeks ago we were being subjected to long form discussion of how Josh Allen can’t beat Mahomes in the post season 🤔 Then the same James Jones that spent all of the last two weeks arguing all that matter is that Bill Belicheck has 6 Super Bowl rings and Andy Reid doesn’t, now conveniently wants to argue against Brady’s rings with “the eye test” GTFOH

Mahomes is the 🐐

These analyst underrate clutch moments. Tom is clutch and that’s why he wins above all

"7 Super Bowls is crazy!" is the reason Brady is the undisputed Goat. "6-0 in the Finals is CRAZY" ...which is why Jordan is the goat. Pat needs to go at least 6-3 to be considered the Goat or he needs to do something that is CRAZY that even Tom couldn't do. When we talk about greatness it's no longer about stats; it's about records, accolades, moments and making history.

Why are they acting like Tom isn’t one of the most clutch, Accurate, tough passes on the biggest stages. And they’re forgetting g how easy Aaron Rodgers made the game look. And he was mobile.

Just one time, just one, when Shady says "How many stats did you have?" let Acho ask him, "What stats did you have in those two Superbowl wins of yours?" and zoom in close on Shady's face. Zero and zero. He never even stepped on the field, both times. Will someone PLEASE bring that up?

I could be wrong, but I need to ask this question and Tom Brady’s first five seasons did Tom Brady ever have the offensive weapons that Mahomes had did Tom Brady have a offense of weapon as talented as Travis Kelce did he have an offense of weapon as talented as Tyreek Hill why are we saying that Patrick Mahomes is doing this all by himself Tyreek Hill alone can change the dynamics of an offense and how a defensive coordinator plays a team.

Didn't they discuss this last time when played Brady in the SB how did that work out? The media needs to relax on the goat conversation

Let's not forget 4 or 5 of them Brady rings were in a time where the defense could head hunt and actually play defense. Imo with ow wide open the game is becoming every record will be broke at some point

If Pat is so great, let him get to 8. Why lower the bar for this guy.

Now its a team sport, yet they be havin segments QB VS QB

This topic is always discussed without context. Example: These shows keep comparing Brady's first years in the league to Mahomes' first years in the league. Mahomes' stats are better but if you add context, then you'll see that Brady got drafted to a defensive minded head coach in an NFL that wasn't a prediminately passing league yet. While Mahomes got drafted to an offensive minded head coach in a league that was pass heavy. Add the fact that Mahomes started his career with Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce as part of his receiving core. Brady's equivalent to Hill and Kelce would be Moss and Gronk. Brady got drafted in 2000, he didn't get Moss until 07 and Gronk til 2010. They were playing under totally different circumstances

Everyone…ESPECIALLY younger folks are so quick to have recency bias and forget history.

Acho.... News flash, QBs don't play defense so they NEVER play head to head. You played in the NFL you should know this. And that Tampa team that won, won off of defense and Patty was missing 3 of his starting offensive linemen. Thank you Joy!!!!!!

They glossed over Joy's point, but It was the best argument about the head to head... QB Vs Defense not QB bs QB...!!

Tom and pat debate is different from other sports debates its rare the King GOAT go against the Prince GOAT. Tom was playing Out his prime while the Prince GOAT was in his prime In Pat. Tom brady beat Pat twice i believe he can never be the goat gotta leave it to the future now

Glasses is just a Huge Mahomes hater. Mahomes just need 5, IMO. But if he were to win this bowl and next year’s bowl, he’s the goat for me.

First there was the "tuck rule", Seattle's Stupid pass on the goal line, Dee Ford lining up in the neutral zone, please.

Brady was never in the same trajectory that Mahomes is currently on. Only 2 of Tom’s Super Bowl appearances did he have a completion percentage on par with Mahomes last Sunday Mahomes surpassed Tom’s entire post season rushing yards with just the last 4 games alone. If head to head is all you want to look at, I got these 2 cats named Nick Foles and Eli Manning who Tom could never beat when it truly counted

So if Mahomes has the first 3 peat ever then what??

I would say he needs to atleast tie the superbowls because at the end of the day that is the biggest stat that people look at and I want to add two things, not to say Tom is better or a certain thing happened at the end of one of their matchups: Tom Brady has 2 big head to head defeats over Mahomes. How those games were won does not matter to someone looking back at it 20 years from now. And also the big thing is Tom "won" those matchups in literally his 40's compared to Mahomes prime. Tom also has the leverage of he went to another team in his 40's and did it again. That is insane. Stats wise they talked about Mahomes nearly 30k yards at 28. Tom Brady has 89k yards..... That is absurd. If you combine Joe Montana and John Elways yards together they are at 92k yards. That is how insane Toms yards are. And also Tom has the moments. He literally has the biggest clutch and game moment of all-time coming back from 28-3. How it happened aside I once again say, it is a legendary accomplishment. I also disagree with James about athleticism. Quarterback is the one position where it literally doesn't matter, being accurate and reading a defense is 100x more important than running around and being big and athletic. Not to mention Tom had a really strong arm and his accuracy was perfect. Being big and athletic is actually bad for longevity because they are causing a lot of contact. I know it sounds like I love Tom but I hate the guy, I just have to be honest about how good he was. I'd put Tom and Montana at 1 and 2 currently, Mahomes at 3 but can interchange with Montana easily.

Patrick Mahomes has been the engine of his team since the day he started his first game. Brady was carried by great defenses for his 1st three superbowls. So if Mahomes wins 6 as the driving force and has better stats and can do things Tom couldn’t, how would he not be the goat?

The greatest quarterbacks show up in the greatest moments, and Tom Brady did that the most often than others, and as great as Patrick Mahomes is when compared to Tom Brady the sample size is too little I’ve been a New England Patriots fastest 2002 with Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl and every since then Tom Brady has been my goat. 🐐

People act like Brady decisively beat Mahomes in every game they played. The reality is that Mahomes went to New England in the regular season and won the game by a large margin. In the AFC championship game Mahomes led the comeback and the game was actually won when Dee Ford's toe was over the line by a few inches and the Patriots got one more play to tie the game. Then when it went to overtime the Pats won the toss and Mahomes never got the ball again. (This was before the league made the rule to give the ball to both teams in overtime) Credit to Brady for driving the ball down the field against a less that stellar Chiefs defense to win the game, but that was hardly a decisive win against Mahomes. In the Super Bowl Brady win, Mahomes was running for his life on an injured toe because of his offensive line being decimated with injuries. That was a decisive win, but tainted by Mahomes injury and a depleted offensive line. But it was a decisive Brady win none the less. Mahomes had a decisive win against Brady in the regular season. I consider the AFC game a toss up because Mahomes outplayed Brady the entire game and had the game won if a Chiefs defensive lineman had not have lined up with his hand a couple of inches beyond the line of scrimmage. If you want to consider head to head, in my book, it is 1 decisive win for both and a game that I consider a tie. If the offsides call was not made Mahomes would have won and if they had the rule that is now in place that would have allowed Mahomes to have the ball after the Pats won the coin toss and Brady got the ball I think Mahomes would have driven for the tying touchdown and who know who would have ultimately won that game, Mahomes clearly out played Brady in that game and Brady was lucky enough to win the coin toss. I would not count that game as a decisive Brady win.

He can 3-4 and that depends on how he wins and gets there to me personally. No one thought he'll get there this year and last one.

In order for Mahomes to catch Brady in the stats area is he will have to play at least 21 years total at the exact same pace he's on without having a drop in stats from year to year. No way this happens.

Tom the goat rn but let’s not act like Tom was the best player on his team for all 7 superbowls his defense was carrying him

Head to head is a team vs team

From what these people are saying, I can tell for certain the NFL and Fox are telling them what they can say and can't say. When Shady brings up stats for Mahomes and Acho brings up stats for Lebron, they never bring them into context. I don't know about Shady but Acho is too smart to not realize the difference in era. Mahomes play in an exclusively offensive era where every offensive stats is inflated. Comparing Lebron's stats to Jordan is also the same. Their job is to hype current players. This is why I hate these kinds of disingenuous debates.

Shady wears the cape for Pat and TB12 because he was the team that won SB. Cuz ain’t even touch the field during those playoff runs. Blessings To You G

To me, when it comes to the GOAT debate I go off individual accolades Super Bowl MVPs, MVPs, All Pros, Pro Bowls, etc

Shady so cheeks, James proves his point and he got a problem... man FOH

There’s no real context to these shows just overview which hurts these conversations

Brady was part of Belichick system that didn’t depend on the pass to win. Imagine if he let Tom cook. Look at Tom his last years in Tampa Bay. Brady cared about winning and did it with less talent. Best football IQ, always protected the football, best 2 minute drill qb of all time, and had the best two Super Bowls: falcons and eagles. Played perfect in the 2nd half of falcons, and put up the best numbers against the eagles. Mahomes 2 Super Bowls was won on penalties and shanahan not running the ball in the 2nd half which would’ve been a blowout

Eras are just not the same .

Tom is the goat. Michael is the goat. Stop fooling yourselves lol

This is a completely different discussion if Dee Ford never lined up offsides lol

Honestly, why don't we just say what everyone is thinking. Based on Mahomes current trajectory, of he wins this Sunday and gets to 3 SB rings, the dude can legit get to 7 (and with ease). When you have generational talents who have an addiction to winning and being the best that's a lethal combination. Pele won 3 World Cup titles, the first when he was just 17. Usain Bolt rewrote the record books of what the 🐐 in sprinting should look like by 3 peating at the Olympics, something that was unheard of in sprinting and yet he did it in 3 different events while still holding world records that over a decade old. Look at tennis, when Sampras got to 14, ppl thought that was the epitome, no one could get past that. Then we saw the 3 goats of tennis obliterate that record because they were far more gifted but also driven than Sampras, played longer than Sampras and dominated tennis in a way we've never seen before. The same can be said of MJ. Now, when you watch Patrick Mahomes I see a player cut from the same cloth as an MJ, Usain Bolt, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic. A player who is not only physically talented but mentally strong as well. That's a lethal combination, and the proof is in the pudding, 6 straight AFC games, the guy has only lost playoff games in overtime and once in the Super Bowl because of injuries to his team (and himself) but you can see Mahomes is constantly learning from his mistakes, just like MJ, Bolt and Federer and continues to raise his game. Why do most QBs fail to win many SB despite their talent? Because the team can't keep a talented core around them. Mahomes said he can take any group of players to the SB. He has that clutch gene (which Brady had for his credit, but this is about Mahomes) Injuries stop a QB and t be fair it hampered him in his 2nd SB, but he learned from his mistakes. He made clutch runs on a bad ankle to literally win games. Like that is some MJ flu game ish, you know what I mean. And the last thing which I think might be the most impressive I've seen 2 QBs in the post season play almost perfect, amazing games against Mahomes and lost. I saw them play above their talent and left Mahomes with less than a minute in the game and he beat them both. That tells me that Mahomes is not only on track to be the 🐐 but he's on track to be arguably one of the greatest playoff QBs we've ever seen. That is where he's like Brady, he's extremely hard to beat in a game. So I think the question of does he need to catch Brady in rings to be the 🐐 when the question should be after this Sunday if he wins his 3rd SB ring, when he will catch Brady, because if he gets 3 rings this Sunday, I'll be honest with you, I'm not going to doubt that he can to 8 or 9. You heard it hear first. Mahomes is a transcendent, once in a generation talent ala- Nadal, Federer, Pele, Usain, Djokovic, MJ and then we'll all be wondering why we even doubted this kid could have gotten to 7 in the first place.

As it stands, Mahomes is the BEST QB in NFL history, and Tom Brady is the GREATEST QB in NFL history.

I think he needs at least 5 but he doesn’t need to surpass the rings just records to ne

Acho 100% right on his take today 🔥

Yes tom Brady is amazing but tom said to Patrick is your league now. Tom Brady sees the potential that Patrick has and one day he will pass tom brady. This year to have all those drops and penalties and yet to win a Superbowl back to back is crazy. This dude is not 30 years yet and he has accomplished this much. He likes the pressure he loves the hunger to get better and better and perfect his craft. With a great quarterback great team and to have andy reid is future is bright

Joy is the voice of reason

Nobody's better than Jordan period.

Pat is the goat. Why? Because in the most talented era in football at the QB position he has no peers. Brady didn’t separate himself until he won several more chips in an era where his toughest competition was the Manning brothers

Unfortunately Dee Ford cost him one in KC second one Tom had a better offensive line but I watched that game when KC played NE and Pat outplayed Tom😮

Spot on Acho. Talk of Mahomes passing Brady is absolutely insane to me. How do you pass someone who has more rings than you and beat you twice in direct competition despite being 18 years older. He's not even passed Montana ffs Mahomes is going to need 8 rings to pass Brady. That's facts

Love when Acho breaks down plays on Film Room. Shady expands on stories from NFL teams he was on. James Jones calmly counters with stats like Dave Helman would. Joy, she is pretty. 🙃

Bruh - let’s visit this topic when he gets AT LEAST 5. CHILL WITH THIS CONVERSATION. Put some respect on Brady’s name.

Can we please get higher definition videos? I always feel like I'm watching this in 2008

Yeah, but Tom Brady started his career in an era of football where you could still play defense

What’s better? $5000 or $7000? Yep

Yes he does! He needs 8. Even if he(Pat) gets 7 rings, Tom and the Bucs smacked him up in the Superbowl and to overcome that Whoppin he has to get 8. Acho is 100% correct here. Rings Matter People. Shadys fayboyism clouts his judgements in these debates....# Megatron #

Of course McCoy would say that. But be real…Mahomes just doesn’t have the QB and team comparison competition that Brady had just about his entire career in NE. He was playing in an era against Manning, Favre, Rogers, Brees, Roesthlesburger, etc. If not for Tom, Manning would have way more rings. So tell this argument to Peyton Manning. Mahomes wouldn’t be doing what he’s doing if he was playing in those guys’ era and prime. He really has no real competition. Lots of young, newer QBs and less future HOFers now playing in Mahomes’ days. Competition inferior.

People will choose who their GOAT is based on their own personal narrative. Because if you count on rings Bill is better than Jordan so is a lot of other players that have 7 rings in the NBA. We don’t even discuss rings when we talk the greatest baseball player ever. So your GOAT will be what makes you feel good at the end of the day.

Brady had 3 rings at age 27, how does LeSean do his math, because he needs 7 to be in the same conversation. Brady beat him twice in championship games and that's your head to head.

Acho is right. Years from now they are going to compare chips and head to head. Not only that, but TB has truly memorable performances in the SB. Atlanta comeback is all time historic and he went on to add two more and one with another team. I’m not saying that Patrick can’t or won’t surpass TB, just that it’s ridiculous to talk about it now.

She right. There is no head to head with players unless you play on different squads. Offense vs Defense. Football isn't played for QB vs QB. It's team vs team. The only way we can compare QBs is statistics.

He can’t be the goat because he was never able to beat the goat when it actually mattered. In crunch time Patrick will crunch up against the GOAT. Too many contradictions he also doesn’t have 5mvps like Peyton I doubt this guy is playing until 45 and he also has a cast around him unlike Tom Brady which had gronk only ?

The fact Brady went through Mahomes to get to his last Super Bowl (while being over 40) should at least give the Goat some breathing room for a while.

Michael never caught Bill in rings, but he’s still the goat in most’s eyes

Michael Vick has entered the chat.

Patrick Mahomes was drafted in 2017 in the first round, 10th overall. He was expected to be great..Tom was barely drafted in the 6th round, pick 199! Coach Carr the head coach at Michigan at the time explained how New England was the only team in the NFL that called about Brady. You don’t get a Hall of Famer from a player that’s a back up QB from high school through college and in the NFL to being a 7 time Super Bowl champion and breaking multiple quarterback records, it just doesn’t happen!

A true JOY to watch!

I’m 💯 with Achos take on brady 4:52

The problem is you're talking about a guy who might get four or five versus a guy who actually has seven. Mahomes may not even get three and after this weekend this may not aged well but...

Joy said getting to and winning 8 superbowls is insane but but Brady been to 10 and won 7😂😂😂 y’all make a point then prove yalls self wrong in the same take you too Shady plz you didn’t even get a snap in the Second Super Bowl you won so if not for Brady you would only have 1 ring 😂😂😂😂 shut up!

Rings can't really just be a 'flat' discussion, a black/white one. People act as if Brady's first three rings were won in the same vein of form as the 28-3 comeback, the Tampa performance or even his 4th ring against the Hawks. He played just 'good' at best in 4 of those and that's fine, 100% fine, Mahomes might just do that against the Niners, but this discussion HAS to be more nuanced than just something so simply defined.

One thing I see in these shows is recency bias …. How quickly we forget … Just remember WHO CHANGED / REVOLUTIONISED the game … MJ > TB12 > LJ > mahomes … Happy to bring into Messi, pele, Serena, Roger, Gretzky, Phelps …

Hmm, mahomes has been in 6 years as a starter. Brady has 23 years, and already, the conversation between the two

Tom beat Pat 2 times when it mattered and shady talking bout he got better stats last time I checked Brady had 80k passing yards and almost 700 TD’s with 7 rings so until Pat can come close to that it shouldn’t even be a debate knowing the Brady beat him twice as well

I'm back now @12:00 shady moving the goal post. In the beginning he talking about patty has a lil of TB and a lil of Lamar wrapped up in 1 so his talent is unmatched but gonna say a 40yo TB is not normal. Someone who is not known fir being mobile ever but still out getting rings at that age. Big picture at 40 will patty still be able to throw or RUN like he do now for that matter so common sense says the numbers will decrease...

When comparing apples to apples Greatness is based on rings imo. Pat does need 6 or 7. He may already be the best Qb of all time, or most talented. Greatness is based on longevity and rings. Winning the grand prize. Yards, Tds, and counting stats change throughout the years based on gameplay and rules and player talent. The one thing that transcends time is Championships.

Swap Acho for Nick Wright and just let him do two shows.

U have to look at long our careers are that’s how long did it take you to reach your peak? Did you go up or did you go down?

Rings,yards,touchdowns everything 😂😂

They played in two very different eras. Off the bat pat is playing in more games. In a pass happy league. Tom was in run first league and when defenses were allowed to play defense. Pat is playing borderline 7on7. Ain’t even a debate. Tom well over Father Time beat him twice and those two times is one of the main difference why there is such a big difference in rings. Tom is the goat and it ain’t even close.

Tom didn’t make it far enough to play Mahomes the 2 years Mahomes won. So essentially by Acho’s logic, if Tom’s team made it further and played Mahomes those 2 years and then lost to Mahomes, Mahomes then would need less rings to be considered the GOAT because Tom made it further? But because Tom lost earlier, it doesn’t count against him in the head so him losing early actually is better?

Void of injury, mahomes should end his career hold nearly every QB record minus INT’s. Add 1 or 2 more rings and it’s a no brainer for me. He passes the eye test, he would have the records, he would have the winning pedigree…he would be the 🐐

Tom did it over 20 years. Pat is awesome but this is a bit premature. Lots of stuff can happen… injuries etc

Unlike Michael Jordan and Lebron. .... Tom brady and patrick mahomes Had the Opportunity to play each other more than once. I remember at least 3. Times that they play each other and Tom Brady WANT 2 of those 3 Matches. Therefore that should put him. On top Over Patrick mahomes, if that conversation ever came up and besides, he still has to win this Super Bowl. Don't jump the gun.

Brady was a much better player than Mahomes. Even 2018-2021. Only thing really Mahomes got over him is mobility. He can't throw deep or process post snap.

The best comparison to Mahomes would be Big Ben. They play the most alike.

James Jones again the only logical one on this show

nah crazy but respect to acho for mentioning the head 2 head .. i hated brady growing up n been a fan of pat since day 1 but it literally could’ve been 5-5 if pat beat him twice

For the love of God, can ya'll please tell Shady to stop over talking when someone else is talking or making remarks!! I literally can't finish watching just listening to this guy not let others finish 😤

Acho. When Brady played Green Bay in the NFC championship and threw that dime to Scotty Miller before half time for a dt, didn’t wow you? Fair but that was a wow moment. Come on.

The fact Pat ain’t even tripping off what everyone else keep arguing about. I’m so sick of this debate

Are we having this conversation? Tom Brady went to 10 super bowls, that's insane; but if we are having a conversation about not having as many rings...then Montana is the GOAT. He never lost, never threw an interception in the Super Bowl and there was no one more feared than him when he got the ball back trailing by a TD or less. Point blank period, Montana was beating you.

This how I end the argument, you have a team your down 4 it’s 2 minutes left and you can choose between Mahomes or Brady to be your qb… everybody and I mean everyone guy is gonna tell them to pick Brady cause you can’t go against… you just know he’s gonna get you da dub in that situation

The fact that Brady left Belicheck and won a ring his first year in Tampa at 40 solidifies his goat status in my book. Mahomes has to get 8 or 1 without Andy Reid to get on that level, cause now we are talking about leadership in elevating the whole team.

Joy is telling the truth and they ain’t hear anything she said… 😂😂

For the first time I 100% agree with Acho.. Tom Brady came in as an underdog and beat Mahomes at 40 yo ti win his SEVENTH SB. Skill aside, Tom Brady got it done and was the reason he won. He elevates his game when it matters most, that is what a GOAT does to me. Only way Mahomes can pass him is if he wins 8, however that does not mean mahomet isn't more "talented" than Brady because he clearly is. But I trust Brady to get it done over Mahomes, which is why he's the GOAT imo. If they didn't match up head to head in the Super Bowl then Mahomes wouldn't need to pass him, but they did

The really impressive thing that makes Tom Brady great, he was 199 in the drat. Probably should not be in the NFL after 3 seasons. Tom Brady was not a top pick, You don't expect a last round draft pick to become the GOAT, maybe a top 10 draft pick. Just imagine all the NFL teams thought 198 players were better than Tom in his draft class. And 6 quarterbacks were drafted ahead of him. Just having fun watching possible history in the NFL again.