Does the Law Pre-date Sinai? Testing 12 Claims 

Hello, Tim! I just responded to another post about this. I want to publicly and acknowledge and apologize to you for making an assumption without confirming it. I did not know your position regarding Torah-keeping and I should have taken the time to confirm it, or at least acknowledged it was merely an assumption on my part. I didn't even realize the oversight until Mr. Fisher pointed it out to me. That was my mistake and I am sorry for making it. Thank you for taking the time to graciously state your actual position. The points/passages you posted in favor of the law predating Sinai are quite often cited by Torah-keepers as evidence that the law applies to everyone. My mistake was jumping to a conclusion about the position of the author of that post. My apologies! Blessings, RLS

Where are we now according to FP? Post Advent, Postmill, and now in the new heavens and earth? Thanks!

@@TheBiblicalRoots regarding the clean and unclean animals on the ark, you should ask Mr. Martin if these were real animals, and exactly what Noah sacrificed on the altar to God. His answer will help you understand claim #11 better

@@timmartin4216 If you love me you will keep my Father's Commandments.... You cannot explain this away. You might try but it would be like convincing so eine the sky is not blue

​@@richhava If you are quoting John 14:15, your version is different than any I've checked. Does yours really say 'my Father's commandments'?

@@kimartist Their is the mindset of looking through the spectrum of the Law is no good. The Law is not burdensome in any capacity... Paul delighted in it. Why? Because he embraced it which led to all the benefits of embracing it.... 614 is a lot of laws But YHWH broke them into 10 Then Jesus narrowed down to 2..... All 614 laws fall under The two great commandments. I think Yahushua wanted to simplify it all and here is the sum of the Law. Love Yah with all your might Love your neighbor as yourself..... What makes that burdensome....? It's only a burden if you embrace being selfish Cause you and I are not the recipient in either of the two That means we must commit to a selfless life. Selfishness is breaking the Law.... Once you grab a hold of this, and out it into practice, shoving yourself to the side to pledge allegiance to Yah and dedicate your life to others brings happiness that money could never buy from me. I did it the evanHELLucal way and it led to misery. You think it's burdensome because you want to hold on to being selfish. You like your comfort. You are either committed to selfless ness or selfishness. Selfishness leads to death. Come out of deception before it's too late

they are on a mission from Satan.

Matt 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, *and you will find rest for your souls.* 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Jer 6:16 Thus says the LORD: “Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and *find rest for your souls.* But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ Jer 6:19 Hear, O earth; behold, I am bringing disaster upon this people, the fruit of their devices, because they have not paid attention to my words; *and as for my law, they have rejected it.* Burdened? I think not.

@@davelyn786 too funny, They Burden because No One Can Keep Them and they come with curses -- Enjoy Peter talking to Jewish Believers in Acts 15:10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? What was the yoke or burden? vs5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

So do Christians please see America right now?

@brianprice2350 7 hours ago Thank God, that I am no longer under the Torah, because of the great sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross, I am now under his Grace, to God be the Glory. *Yeah, I hear lots of Christians say you can be a pure devil and harm anyone you want in the name of grace, as long as you believe that Jesus has saved you. It’s an opportunist’s dream until the opportunists are themselves victimized in the name of grace. By the way, did you ever notice that Christ never uttered the words “saved by grace” anywhere in the Bible? That idea conveniently waited to surface until after christ ascended back to his Father. Strangely, in Ephesians 2:8-9, Paul teaches that we are saved by grace and NOT OF WORKS! Yet, Christ later comes back to this same church in Ephesus in Revelation 2, and warns them to repent and to do the first works, the very opposite of Paul’s message of saving grace, else Christ would remove their candlestick.

Amen! 🙌 And I'm sorry there's always an HRM to bring you down whenever you exalt Jesus. That's just the way it is around here sadly 😥

@@coreybray9834 What group of Christians are you hanging around that say you can do the Devil’s work and still be under the Grace of Jesus Christ?

@@brianprice2350 @brianprice2350 2 hours ago @coreybray9834 What group of Christians are you hanging around that say you can do the Devil’s work and still be under the Grace of Jesus Christ? *Oh, you mean average Christians who reject God’s law, and ultimately reject god in the process pretending they are faithful to god? It’s mostly those who take paul seriously in romans 6:14 for insisting we are not under the law, but under grace. And those who believe the ungodly are justified by faith without works according to Paul in Romans 4:5, rather than being required to do righteous works in order to be justified, because Paul insists that righteousness is imputed to them instead? If they insist they are not under the law from Romans 6:14, then the grace they are under as an alternative is by very definition a lawless state of existence. And if they don’t have to do any works to be justified, because righteousness is imputed by faith, then of course they just behave like a devil and claim to have faith to cover their rear, ensuring that they are justified by faith like the rest of the ungodly in Romans 4:5 as far as paul is concerned. So, it might surprise you that people take Paul seriously and go all the way, but it doesn’t end here. And just to be clear, “ungodly” there is Paul’s term in Romans 4:5, so it’s a bit hard to ignore. And then they stumble upon Ephesians 2:8-9 and start joining Paul in insisting that they are saved by grace through faith and NOT OF WORKS, so no need to do righteous works to be saved there either, so why not just act like a Lawless devil if god isn’t paying any attention to their works is the way serious gracers reason it out, exalting themselves as the “grace entitled”. Now, there is a second and somewhat less enthusiastic sect of Christians who follow Paul today who can’t quite go as far as Paul was preaching. They anticipate from a basic moral sense that there is something wrong with the idea of tossing out good works, acting like a devil and imagining God will save you anyway. That sounds a little too good to be true to these Christians initially. They doubt the varasity of Paul’s central claims about the function of grace, and try to modify his stance by sneaking back in basic moral principles, returning to aspects of the law in an attempt to not fall prey to the former extremes of cheap grace theology within the greater ranks of thePaul faithful. Unfortunately, as they start to realize the value of righteous behavior and find themselves actually returning to many aspects of the law contrary to the advice of Paul in Romans 6:14, they eventually stumble across Galatians 5 where paul insists their attempts at returning to the law to be justified by works means they have fallen from grace. So, not wanting to fall from grace, many of these folks resort to being more like the first group who behaves like a devil and claims to be justified by grace through faith instead. Even more from this group stumble upon Romans 11:6 and realize that Paul has been arguing that grace and works are completely incompatible ideas the entire time in Paul’s version of the plan of salvation. Paul tried to make that crystal clear in Romans 4:1-5 earlier in the book of romans, but sometimes people have to read an idea a few times in different contexts to fully grasp the direction Paul was heading in on this front. Of course, there is a third group of Christians, like me, who join James 2:14-17 in accusing Paul of teaching a doctrine of justification by faith that is really nothing more than dead faith in Romans 4:5. So, I am not very popular among most Christians, because ideas like law, order, morality, common decency actually matter to our salvation in my book, and I don’t really subscribe to Paul or his “messenger of Satan” in 2Cor 12:7. I actually joined Christianity to follow the good Shepherd of John 10 instead, and see Paul as nothing more than an admitted Pharisee in Acts 23:6, seeing that he came right out and blurted out that he was still a Pharisee there. And I take Christ’s warning to beware the doctrine of the Pharisees seriously in Matthew 16, because in Matthew 23:15 Christ advises us that Pharisees like paul make their procelites into twice the child of hell than themselves, and that if our righteousness is not greater than that of the Scribes and Pharisees in Matthew 5:20 that we will not be able to enter the kingdom of God. Wich makes me wonder why so many Christians go out of their way to follow paul who admits in Acts 23:6 to still being a Pharisee. So, it doesn’t surprise me in the least to find a growing number of Paul’s converts claiming it is okay to be a lawless devil as long as you claim to have faith that Jesus will save you anyway. I can fully appreciate why a lot of Christians end up at that point after being manipulated and twisted by Paul over the course of trying to make sense of his writings. Most of these Christians were never told that Paul’s insisting they were no longer under the law in romans 6:14brought Paul under the warning of God in Isaiah 8:20-22. Godhas already judged that anyone speaking not according to the law and testimony, like Paul constantly does, has no light in them and that these will eventually be driven into darkness. Christ by contrast is the light of the world in John 1, meaning he does not seek to violate the test of Isaiah 8:20, but came instead to bind up the testimony and seal the law among god’s disciples as prophecied in Isaiah 8:16. This is an idea taken from Deuteronomy 6 where Israelites would practice binding the law to their right hand and forehead. Interestingly, the right hand and forehead is also where the mark of the beast is placed in Revelation 14. So, those who follow Paul out from under the protection of God’s seal simply open themselves up to take them ark of the beast where they should instead be binding up the testimony and sealing god’s law. But, there is another aspect to following Paul out from under the law in Romans 6:14 that most Christians are never told about. On the surface, this is the forever rebellion God has Isaiah write a book about in Isaiah 30. Their dislike for the law and the prophets leads to what God concludes is their trying to cause the Most High to cease from before them. So, God isn’t fooled by the antilaw nonsense going on in Christianity today with this whole saved by grace silliness. It’s one of the reasons why Christ warned in Matthew 7 that few would find the gate to life, and that the majority would choose the broad path to destruction. Eventually, God will just let the curse of Isaiah 24:6 devour the earth and those who insist on transgressing his law, changing his ordinance and breaking his everlasting covenant will be burned up. But, examining this issue deeper takes us to Zechariah 7 where God speaks of this enduring condition of man called a heart like an adamant stone. God describes this as his people refusing to hear his law and the words he sent by his spirit to his servants the prophets, not surprisingly the same thing he had Isaiah write a book about in Isaiah 30. So, when Christians read Romans 6:14 and follow Paul out from under the law, they are essentially cementing a heart like an adamant stone into place, not really addressing this problem of the stony heart at all. But, God has every intention of helping is true followers get rid of their stony heart as he promises in Ezekiel 11 and 36, by teaching them in Ezekiel 18 how to create in them a new heart and a new Spirit through genuine repentance and turning from sin so they do not die like those who seek to retain their stony heart. As a consequence of getting rid of the stony heart and creating a new heart and a new spirit in man through teaching them genuine repentance and turning from sin, God will then take these people who love his law and the words of his prophets, and he will write his law in their heart under the New covenant provisions stated in Jeremiah 31:31-34 to prepare them to be ready for the restored Davidic kingdom in Ezekiel 37 and 40-48, and to also prepare them for when the law goes forth from Zion in 2:1-5: a time when god will rebuke the nations and they will destroy their weapons of war and not learn war anymore. This being a goal Christianity has not been able to even remotely achieve under Paul’s intended lawless ideas of grace. So, Paul’s goal to bring people out from under god’s law is the exact opposite of what god is trying to do when he seals his law among his disciples in Isaiah 8:16 and writes his law in the hearts of those who actually come under the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34. So, all these Christians following Paul out from under the law, claiming to be under the New covenant, either never read what that covenant says or they just prefer to tel themselves lies. No one genuinely trying to come under the New covenant is trying to flee out from under god’s law. Instead, they realize God is moving his law from tables of stone and animal skins to write it in their heart. So, the goal is not to come out from under the law, because under the New covenant you will be under the law more intimately and tightly than man has ever experienced before.

@@kimartist @kimartist 14 hours ago Amen! And I'm sorry there's always an HRM to bring you down whenever you exalt Jesus. That's just the way it is around here sadly *Actually, it’s the gracers who bring me down far more than the HRM. The gracers are the ones running around painting God as being so imposible that they insist there isn’t a thing we can do to please him. We’ve all heard the hellish manipulative sermon of how there is nothing we can do to please God. Are we supposed to believe this is because god is so loving or something that there is nothing we can do to please him, or is it closer to the truth to say there is nothing we can do to please the gracers and their unloving, demented view of God??? Yet, God says that we can choose the things that please him in Isaiah 56, suggesting that the gracers have been lying through their teeth the entire time and that God is not as impossible to please as the gracers have been making him out to be. And if we choose the things that please God in Isaiah 56, God will respond by giving us a name in his house better than sons and daughters. This was not a message to the Jews, mind you, but was supposed to be the message to the strangers/Gentiles entering the faith after the crucifixion discussed just thre chapters earlier in Isaiah 53. But, the vast majority of Christians didn’t stick to the message Godhad in mind for the early church, because they did not want to choose his Sabbath and his covenant as God asked them to do, rejecting his offer in Isaiah 56 every step of the way. And when they wake up to the reality that they will not receive a name better than sons and daughters in his house for rejecting his offer, then what will their excuse to god be?

Deuteronomy 29:10-15 (ESV) 10 “You are standing today, all of you, before the LORD your God: the heads of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, all the men of Israel, 11 your little ones, your wives, and the sojourner who is in your camp, from the one who chops your wood to the one who draws your water, 12 so that you may enter into the sworn covenant of the LORD your God, which the LORD your God is making with you today, 13 that he may establish you today as his people, and that he may be your God, as he promised you, and as he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 14 It is not with you alone that I am making this sworn covenant, 15 but with whoever is standing here with us today before the LORD our God,* and with whoever is not here with us today.*

@@davelyn786 I don't what point you are trying to make. That has nothing to do with my rebuke

@@salpezzino7803 you’re rebuke is actually a blessing. God is telling us what he wants. How is that a rebuke?

@@davelyn786 Are you in the Satanic Cult the Hebrew/Jewish Roots? They/you claim the Mosaic law had always been around, they think Abraham kept the Mosaic laws, even tho he was a Gentile. So, that scripture rebukes your/their cult. There is no blessing in the law of Moses, because no one can keep them, just read your Bible. So, Moses said that to the Son's of Israel. and News Flash none kept them and None but 2 of them made it to the Promised land, all the rest were CURSED and died in the Wilderness You aren't too bright. Joshua and Caleb were the only men from their generation permitted to go into the Promised Land after the time of wandering.

Yes they ignore this too. Moses said himself it was only made with ancient Israel.

they have the IQ of a walnut

Yes commenting without watching the accompanying video is the modus operandi of most HRM who visit here.

All Liars will enjoy the Lake of Fire - say Hi to David Wilber for me when you get there.

Philippians 3:9

@@pierreferguson1300 That's right, Paul says he does not have his own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, and by faith in God. His own righteousness is imputed to him as inherent. He had no righteousness as a lost sheep of Israel, even as a Pharisee.

@@pierreferguson1300 That's right, Paul says he does not have his own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, and by faith in God. His own righteousness is imputed to him as inherent. He had no righteousness as a lost sheep of Israel, even as a Pharisee.

Abraham wasn’t under Law, not until it was given to Moses. Abraham broke no law by marrying his half sister, it was acceptable & not unlawful until the Mosiac Law was given. Early mankind did not mutate. Abraham followed the One God from creation. He had a covenant with God now he rests until the resurrection, when the promises will be fulfilled at the return of Jesus Christ.

Did God marry Sarai before or after he was in covenant with God? Would you accuse yourself of all your sins from before you were saved?

@@CadeWillcox I dont understand, sorry

@richhava Why would Abraham be held to God's Law before he was in covenant with God? Maybe it was wrong to marry your sister according to God at that time, maybe it wasn't. But the bible doesn't say that Abraham was in covenant with God until after he was already married to Sarai. So he wouldn't have had the law revealed to him for obedience yet either way.

@@CadeWillcox Your splitting hairs here and I honestly can't answer you. But this has nothing to do with the Torah being applicable today. Yahs kingdom is governed by pure unselfishness. They only way to determine if you are not acting in a selfish manner is to text it against the Law If you choose not to believe that the law was before Moses it really doesn't change anything. That's not going to stop your salvation but if you keep denying that the Torah does not matter and you keep following after the false idols that modern-day Christianity has formed and you're going to be in some trouble My pal. If I don't think that the law mattered before Moses but I still believe what I believe it ain't going to keep me from making it

It's eternal all right but not to be fulfilled by Man. The moment God promised a New Covenant, the Torah couldn't be fulfilled by Man anymore. It meant He God is not expecting anyone to fulfil it. But God's says his word must be fulfilled. Isaiah 55:11 [11]So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. This is where the Righteous Servant, Messiah, comes in. He fulfils the law by atoning for the Jews under the Law they were not able to keep. The law is therefore fulfilled in Jesus.

Amen. 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

It does not say sin is the transgression of the Mosaic law. You are inserting that into the passage.

​@@freedominchrist444there was no new testament when 1 John was written. So what law was it John was speaking of?

@vegacool1 3 hours ago Are there not hints in Genesis, about shabbat, sukkot, Jacob's periods of 7's, the dates of Noah flood, etc. Would that make sense that those would be hinted at, as Moses was the author? *Genesis 26 tells us openly that Abraham kept God’s commandments, statutes and laws. And Circumcision was well before Moses. So, if the folks belonging to Paulism want to do away with that which they separate out of torah and call the law of Moses, then we should still be circumcising males today.

​@coreybray9834 Two questions: 1. The Edenic, Adamic, and Noahic covenants were made with all humanity in mind. Do you believe that the Abrahamic Covenant, which includes circumcision, applies to all humanity, or just to the physical descendants of Abraham? Scriptural evidence preferred. 2. Do you believe Genesis 26:5 implies Abraham kept the Law of Moses which was given 430 years later (Gal 3:17)?

@dancingzolins6782 5 days ago (edited) @coreybray9834 Two questions: 1. The Edenic, Adamic, and Noahic covenants were made with all humanity in mind. Do you believe that the Abrahamic Covenant, which includes circumcision, applies to all humanity, or just to the physical descendants of Abraham? *I believe it was intended for all humans who decide to embrace his covenant. Hence, Abraham is known as the “Father of Nations”. Christ even warned the Jews in John 8 that God could raise up children to Abraham from stones if necessary to ensure that covenant’s viability, suggesting that Christ was fully aware that covenant was intended for far more than Abraham’s physical descendents only. And Isaiah 56 is where God calls nonJews directly under the Sabbath and Covenant. Unfortunately, most Christians today are rejecting that part of the intended gospel message, pretending the Sabbath was only for the Jews. They couldn’t be more wrong. And when Christ returns in Zechariah 14, notice that Gentile nations like Egypt will be keeping Tabernacles: an old torah feast from Leviticus 23 covered under the Abrahamic covenant passed down through Moses as well. Also, in Ezekiel 44, in the coming Davidic kingdom, the strangers/Gentiles will have to be circumcised in heart and flesh as well, or God will not allow them to enter the coming Millennial sanctuary. Well, circumcision began with Abraham long before the time of Moses, so the fact that circumcision becomes an issue again pretty much guarantees that the Abrahamic covenant was meant for far more than Abraham’s physical descendants as well.* Scriptural evidence preferred. 2. Do you believe Genesis 26:5 implies Abraham kept the Law of Moses which was given 430 years later (Gal 3:17)? *Abraham obviously had circumcision, the commandments, laws statutes and judgments portion of the law of Moses. Whether he had every part of it would be difficult to prove or disprove conclusively though. But, it wouldn’t really matter to us today if he had it or not, because Isaiah 56 introduces the strangers/gentiles to the Sabbath and the covenant. Moses didn’t have the gospel in his day as far as we can tell, but it is authorized in Deuteronomy 18 under that Messianic prophecy of the other prophet like Moses. And those who get the victory in Revelation 15 are found singing the song of Moses and the Lamb. You would think more Christians reading the book of Revelation would grasp the importance of Moses to their salvation from that chapter of prophecy. @@dancingzolins6782

@@dancingzolins6782 GENESIS 17:9-14 , 9.And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. 13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. WHAT DOES " BOUGHT WITH MONEY OF ANY STRANGER , WHICH IS NOT OF THY SEED MEANS " ? Circumcision means to remove something . In the covenant with Abraham , it is the removing of the flesh of foreskin ; which is the token of the completion of the creation started by God , on the first day that man was formed . Man was created in the image and likeness of God , but every other creature was made in their kind . Man was made from the dust of the ground , GOD IS NOT . God is teaching man how to become the kind . On the eighth day of man's creation , the flesh and blood of the earth will be removed , and man will become the kind Circumcision of the flesh of the foreskin is a law/commandment , like thy shall not kill , or remember the sabbath to keep it holy . Biblical circumcision means to make clean . The circumcisions for the cleaning of sin went through the two mediators of the covenant of the Father & the children of Israel . The circumcision of the heart/spirit is a sin sacrifice law of atonement through faith , through the mediator Jesus Christ ; which is repenting of your sins , then believing by obedience ; which is keeping your mediator Jesus Christ commandments ; which he received from the Father . People forget that there was also a sin sacrifice law of atonement through works , for the flesh/body ; which the God of Israel gave through the mediator Moses ; which was called the law of animal sacrifice and oblations ; which is the circumcision of flesh/body for sin . Moses , like Jesus was the mediator/husband/protector/covering , for the one's under the covenant between the Father . UNDERSTAND , THE PROMISE CAN THROUGH ABRAHAM AND HIS SEED IN GALATIANS 3 , WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST . THE STRANGER BOUGHT WITH ABRAHAM MONEY IS THE BLOOD OF CHRIST . ACTS 20:28 , Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. GALATIANS 3:26 , 26.For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29.And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. WHAT COVENANT WAS ABRAHAM SEED REQUIRED TO KEEP ( CIRCUMCISION ) ? ABRAHAM KEPT THE LAWS THAT GOD GAVE HIM ; ALSO THE LAWS THAT ADAM RECEIVED THROUGH THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD & EVIL , WHICH IS SATAN . WHO S SATAN ( LUCIFER ) ? LUCIFER IS A CHERUB ANGEL THAT WAS PLACED ON THE HOLY MOUNTAIN ( GOVERNMENT) OF GOD ( PLEASE READ EZEKIEL 28:12-15 ) ; WHICH BRINGS THE WORD OF GOD ( HE WAS THE LIGHT BRINGER OR SON OF THE MORNING ) , UNTIL INIQUITY WAS FOUND IN HIM ; WHICH ADAM WAS TOLD NOT TO EAT FROM HIM . ISAIAH 14:13-14 , 13.For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. WHAT IS THE ROLE OF AN ANGEL ? HEBREWS 1:13-14 , 13.But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? ANGELS DO NOT GIVE YOU THEIR OPINIONS , BUT SPEAK WHAT THEY HEAR FROM GOD ; THEY GLORIFY GOD , NOT THEMSELVES ; WHICH LUCIFER WANTED HIS OWN GLORY ; HE WANTED TO BE THE MOST HIGH . ALL KNOWLEDGE , UNDERSTANDING AND WISDOM COMES FROM GOD . MAN WAS GIVEN THE LAWS OF GOD IN THE GARDEN BY SATAN ; ONLY THE NATION OF ISRAEL WAS GIVEN THE LAWS OF GOD , BY GOD . PSALM 147:19-20 , 19.He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. 20He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD. THE LAW OF MOSES IS THE SIN SACRIFICE LAW OF ATONEMENT OF THE FLESH , THE LAW OF ANIMAL SACRIFICE & OBLATIONS ; WHICH WAS GIVEN THROUGH THE MEDIATOR/HUSBAND MOSES , AFTER ISRAEL STARTED BREAKING GOD'S LAW WITH REPENTING AS KING DAVID DID ; WHICH WAS 430 YEARS AFTER THE PROMISE OF CHRIST ( MEDIATOR/HUSBAND ) WAS MADE TO ABRAHAM ( GENESIS 12:3 ) . BOTH MOSES AND CHRIST GAVE THE LAW OF GOD ; THE SIN SACRIFICE LAW OF ATONEMENT WENT THROUGH THE HUSBANDS , THEY INTERCEDES FOR THE PEOPLE UNDER THE COVENANT . SHALOM !

But not commanded

@@sethplace It's still a Blessed and Set Apart day the has been established since the beginning

The ministry of death (2 Corinthians 3:7) Exodus 31:14 “Therefore you are to keep the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it must be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest [Exodus 20:8-11; Leviticus 23:1-3], holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.“ (NASB) Exodus 35:1 Then Moses assembled all the congregation of the sons of Israel, and said to them, “These are the things that the Lord has commanded you to do: 2 “For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a Sabbath of complete rest to the Lord [Exodus 20:8-11; Leviticus 23:1-3]; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.“ (NASB) Numbers 15:32 Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness [Heb. midbar], they found a man gathering wood on the Sabbath day [Exodus 20:8-11; Leviticus 23:1-3]. 33 And those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation; 34 and they placed him in custody, because it had not been decided what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must be put to death [Exodus 31:14-15; Exodus 35:1-2; Deuteronomy 27:26; Matthew 5:18]; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So all the congregation [Heb. edah] brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. (NASB) Matthew 5:18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished!“ (NASB)

Galatians 3:10 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them [Deuteronomy 27:26].” (NASB) Exodus 31:14 “Therefore you are to keep the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it must be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest [Exodus 20:8-11; Leviticus 23:1-3], holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.“ (NASB) Exodus 35:1 Then Moses assembled all the congregation of the sons of Israel, and said to them, “These are the things that the Lord has commanded you to do: 2 “For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a Sabbath of complete rest to the Lord [Exodus 20:8-11; Leviticus 23:1-3]; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.“ (NASB) Numbers 15:32 Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness [Heb. midbar], they found a man gathering wood on the Sabbath day [Exodus 20:8-11; Leviticus 23:1-3]. 33 And those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation; 34 and they placed him in custody, because it had not been decided what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must be put to death [Exodus 31:14-15; Exodus 35:1-2; Deuteronomy 27:26; Matthew 5:18]; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So all the congregation [Heb. edah] brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. (NASB) 2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face [Exodus 34], fading as it was [Hebrews 8], 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? (NASB) Matthew 5:18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished!“ (NASB) Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under law [Hebrews 7:11], do you not listen to the Law? (NASB)

@@jessewhitstine4484 10/4 and the idea of rest both physical and in Christ should be acknowledged but it isn’t a command anywhere in the New Testament. It just isn’t.

According to Genesis 19, the sin involved homosexuality. The very name of that ancient city has given us the term sodomy, in the sense of “copulation between two men, whether consensual or forced.” Clearly, homosexuality was part of why God destroyed the two cities. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to perform homosexual acts on what they thought were two men. This is not to say that homosexuality was the only reason why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Ezekiel 16:49-50 gives some more insight: “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me.” So, the sins of Sodom included pride, apathy, complacency, idleness, and unconcern for the underprivileged. Ezekiel 16:50 adds that a sin of Sodom was that they did “detestable things.” The Hebrew word translated “detestable” refers to something that is morally disgusting. It is the same word used in Leviticus 18:22, where homosexuality is an “abomination.” Jude 1:7 also weighs in: “Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.” So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin of Sodom and Gomorrah, it does appear to be the primary reason for the destruction of those cities..

@@Mikhael1964 We know all that . The question is did they have that knowledge, those laws ? And yes they did . Or else this man is saying GOD is an unjust judge .

@@jimharmon2300 Why did you ask why GOD destroy Sodom if you knew it all anyway..pointless..Also, using straw man arguments does not make one correct. Keep to what the man said, not what he didn't say..

@@jimharmon2300 the Natural law - Romans 2 - the 10 commandments. Mikhael is evil

There is natural law and there is the Sinai covenant for the nation of Israel. These are not the same Cain was never told by God that murder was forbidden. Only warned that his state of mind would lead to "sin" In answer to your question, this is what Ezekiel says "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen

Thanks Craig! The Bible agrees with you that Adam "knew torah," in the sense that the Hebrew word _torah_ means "direction, guidance." Adam knew what God had instructed him. Which is why he was punished when he disobeyed that instruction. At the same time, Adam did not know, nor was he under, the old covenant law. Shalom, RLS

did Rob actually say "Cane an Able sacrifices were just normal practices in the East???

Yay🎉

Thank you. Most intelligent comment I've read so far 😅 But seriously, the Torah Keeping Brigade is out in force with all their ridiculous "yeah buts" & it's tedious to behold. Thank goodness for some levity 🙏

A thing done for an idol is pagan. The same thing done for God is holy. (Within reason)

That's fair, Cade. The reason we say Jesus kept every old covenant command required of Him is because the NT tells us He was (a.) "born under the law" (Gal. 4:4), and (b.) sinless: “He committed no sin and no deceit was found in His mouth” (1 Pet. 2:22). So, Jesus was a Jewish man who was born, lived, and died under the old covenant law and committed no sin. By contrast, Abraham lived and died centuries _before_ the old covenant and it's law were given at Sinai. Blessings, RLS

Oversite869, Any idea when job was written?

@@learn2farmagain30 before Exodus.

The first sacrifice for sin took place in the Garden of Eden after Adam and Eve disobeyed God and became aware of good and evil. In Genesis 3:20-24, God sacrificed an innocent animal to provide clothing for Adam and Eve, covering their nakedness and atoning for their sin

@@salpezzino7803 that wasn’t a sacrifice. That was Yahuah giving them (us) a body capable of atoning. The atonement wasn’t made until Yahuah Himself gave Himself to us on Calvary. And by our faith and communion with Yah, we are atoned and exist separate and free from the generational or generated judgments that haunt our flesh. The atonement doesn’t take place until Yahusha se Adonai and them Law of Moses completely loses all of its power against us. Yahuah didn’t make the first sacrifice. He made the Last one.

@@Oversite869 you are wrong and evil. Why do you mix Hebrew with English? Hebrew was dead as a common language for 2000 years. Are you schizophrenic or looking for a better seat at the table?

The word for signs IS NOT moed. In Genesis 1:14, the Hebrew text for "for signs" is לְאֹתֹת֙ [lə·’ō·ṯōṯ] based on the Hebrew word 'ot', Strong's #H226. [See Genesis 9:12,13,17, Isaiah 8:18, 44:25.] In Genesis 1:14, the Hebrew text for "and seasons" is וּלְמ֣וֹעֲדִ֔ים [ū·lə·mō·w·‘ă·ḏîm] based on the Hebrew word 'moed', Strong's #H4150. [See Genesis 18:14, Zechariah 8:19]. Moed can mean appointed times, seasons, feasts, but moed does not mean signs.

Here’s one: Matthew 5:17-20 (Four Contexts) - An Academic Lecture ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bTCi5SRpq6g.html

Here’s another: Matthew 5:17-20 explanation - How did Jesus not abolish but fulfill the law? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4bio5s2Ehcc.html

It was just an ad hominem attack on Torah keepers in general anyway. No big deal.

Word = Logos (Koine Greek), Dabar (Hebrew). Law = Nomos (Koine Greek), Torah (Hebrew).

@@pierreferguson1300 Strong's definition has the word "command" in the discription of both words.

Isn't 'Word' in John 1:1 referring to Jesus, and not law? Further down, we read ... "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."- John 1:14 KJV and ... "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."- John 1:17 KJV Verses 14 and 17 indicate a clear distinction between Word (Jesus) and law.

@@dancingzolins6782 Yes

@@dancingzolins6782 I have had this debate before. If the Word is Jesus then from the beginning he had not learned to be obedient to himself until 2,000 years ago, and was fearful according to the following verses, 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; Heb 5:7-8 (KJV) Jesus is a man that was given the Word and taught to be obedient to it and thereby perfectly giving us an example to follow and live by the Word in the flesh, becoming our savior and the author of our salvation through deed and script (the New Testament). And Jesus was given the position of high priest and “Lord of Lords and Kings of Kings” because of his perfected obedience to the Word. And he was made God over us by the same principle that Moses was made God over Pharaoh Ex 7:1 (KJV). There is only the FATHER that gave us his WORD (law, the ten commandments and their principles) to be our lord and God that we are commanded to love with all our heart, soul, strength, and mind. There is only the FATHER that sends his HOLY GHOST to work all things together for the good of those that love the lord their God. By God’s righteousness he cannot create man with a free will without a plan of salvation knowing that man will give into the lusts of the flesh and be servants of death. From the beginning (John 1:1 (KJV)) that plan is the Word (God’s law) that entails a savior that completes or finishes the law (Word). Jesus was chosen to be that savior (the Word made flesh). The Word is not Jesus, but Jesus is a part of the Word. 6 By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalms 33:6 (KJV) “Jesus Christ came 2,000 years ago at the end of the fifth day and beginning of the sixth day and brought the New Testament which gives true meaning to the laws of God in the Old Testament and is a way of making it possible for all people to understand. The teachings of Christ in the New Testament finished the laws of God which are in the Old Testament (confirming those laws, not doing away with them as most people believe) St. John5:36, St. Matt.5:17, and His teachings in the New Testament of the bible is His spiritual blood, St. John6:63 and St. Mark14:23-25. He did not change any laws of the Old Testament. He repeatedly refers to the Ten Commandments which were given in the Old Testament. It is there one must study the laws to truly understand the breakdown and true meaning of all laws. Jesus Christ said He came not to destroy or change, but to fulfill and finish the laws, St.John4:34, 17:4, 19:30.” ~ #2 143,999+1 All glory to God. Amen

Thank you for bring that to my attention, Jim! You are right, that is a problem. So I want to publicly and acknowledge and apologize for making an assumption about Mr. Martin without confirming it. I do not know Mr. Martin's position regarding Torah-keeping and I should have taken the time to confirm it, or at least acknowledged it was merely an assumption on my part. That was my mistake and I am sorry for making it. Mr. Martin's points/passages in favor of the law predating Sinai are quite often cited by Torah-keepers as evidence that the law applies to everyone. So, while that may or may not be Mr. Martin's personal position, I am not arguing against a strawman in this video. It is a legitimate line of argumentation that I have personally experienced dozens of times. Shalom! Rob

​@@TheBiblicalRoots . Thanks. I don't think proper exegesis should be influenced by whether a person or group uses the conclusions incorrectly. This goes for the history of the church and so-called scholars you mentioned as well as for Torah-keepers. In other words, proper exegesis should not be influenced by how others misuse the conclusion potentially violating other truths of scripture and creating bad doctrine. The possible fact that the law preceded Sinai should not be discarded because the Torah-Keepers misuse it. And it should not be thrown out because biased scholars in their bubble protecting their ass wont go against tradition. It should be looked at on merit and weeded out. You did offer some of this and as well Mr Martin could expound on and have other good info and rebuttal to offer. As far as tradition, we see "scholars" whaling against Preterism when its obvious what scripture say, but they refuse to hear it and go against tradition. PS: I did appreciate your rant against Torah-Keepers, just not your misplaced association of Mr Martin with them. Thanks for owning up.

Christians aren't under that Mosaic laws, The tablets of stone are the 10 Commandments and yes they are written on mankind's hearts, only until God changes a heart of Stone to flesh will the 10 become uncorrupted.

@@salpezzino7803 Amen!

@@salpezzino7803 Why people want to see the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic Laws as the same thing has always blown my mind. Both are two very different covenants, one pointed to Christ and was nailed to the cross, and the other was eternal. If we are to take Christ at his word by Matthew 4:4 then all the commandments stand fast, they are the first time that God spoke something with his own voice and wrote it himself.

@@TheFaithofJesus-bk4wl Love You. I have been saying this over and over again. Even Christians don't get it. This is what makes dealing with the HRM cult difficult. Rob, is an antinomian and denies Christians are to keep the 10 Commandments, he teaches that the 10 commandments and the law of Moses are the same and had been fulfilled. I tell them - the 10 were written with the finger of God and the law of Moses was given to him by Angels. That doesn't seem to connect for them So, then I say - the 10 were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant and the law of Moses was outside ----- they still don't get it. Peace to You *I only repeated my argument hoping someone will read it. Rob doesn't understand it.

@@salpezzino7803 Well, I don't take the word" Cult " lightly, I believe there are millions of people who love the Lord sincerely but their eyes have yet to be opened. That's why it's up to us to preach the truth.

The Torah was given to Abraham which then had the statute of faith, but due to sin God amended the Torah with Abraham to add sin and death, but the law of righteousness was the law we as true believers must keep as Romans 2:12-13. I have a Ytube video series 'Myths in so-called Christianity' for NT truth.

What scripture can I go to that says God gave Abraham the Torah

Where did God amend the Torah with Abraham?

@@100watsoncm did not GOD say abraham was found righteous by faith alone???also did not cain and able offer sacrifice and did not GOD say 1 sacrifice was acceptable and 1 was not acceptable..

@@100watsoncm Genesis 26:5 God says he did. The Torah given to Abraham is written into that of Moses, as Abraham kept Gods laws by the obedience of faith.

Hi Elijah. How could the Law of Moses have existed in these passages? Moses had not yet been born. RLS

@@TheBiblicalRoots because the law of Moses is the law of God

@@elijahirvin5911 Not according to 1 Corinthians 9:19-23, where Paul says he is three things all at the same time: 1. *Not* under the law of Moses 2. Under the law of God 3. Under the law of Christ RLS

@@TheBiblicalRoots law of Christ is law of Moses Matthew 23 1.4

You refer to four verses in Genesis whose principles are found LATER in the Law of Moses. Perhaps it would be more logical to say that Genesis is found in the Law of Moses. For example, we would not say the USA is in the 13 original colonies (dating back to the 1600s), but rather that the 13 colonies formed the basis of the USA. Galatians 3:16-17 tells us that the Law of Moses came 430 years AFTER the covenant with Abraham. Therefore, the Law of Moses is not in Genesis, although we see individual commands and principles mentioned there, such as the examples you provided.

Yep! That's exactly what I said in this video. Shalom, RLS

The moral laws existed before but not Mosaic law. Moral laws were included in Mosaic law. Sabbath feasts and dietary law were not moral commands and were not given until Sinai.

@@freedominchrist444 I was responding to Mr. Soldberg's commentary on claim #9. It's the only claim that he agrees upon with Mr. Martin - if I recall the correct name, but at the end he leaves some room for interpretation by saying: "which laws exactly and what that proves it's another matter". Of course, we can't say exactly which laws where given after the departure from Egypt and before Sinai, but at least some of the moral commandments had to be established already and were not just anachronisms, for the reason I brought in my first comment regarding Jer.7:21-23

Thanks, Joe.

@@timmartin4216 Opposite of law obeying is LAWLESSNESS. Matthew 7:21-23

That is right as the Torah was given to Abraham, who kept Gods laws. Sin and death was an amendment which added sin due to Egypt.

@@simonskinner1450sin and death were in this world before Abraham. There was know amendment- Romans 5:12-21

@@100watsoncm Sin and death were not part of God's laws until Moses, there was a lack of faith, but sin could not be imputed as there was no law. Romans 5:12-21 tells us that, and that passage tells us Jesus returned access to eternal life lost by Adam, and that the wages of sin is death.

Romans 2 is the Moral law - the 10 Commandments

People of God let us take the word of God as it is Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments Paul in Romans says in Romans 3:31 do we nullify the Lwa because of faith No we establish the Law

Good question. God tells us our conscience bears us witness to right and wrong. But we are told Noah was a preacher of righteousness. Perhaps God used Noah to warn of coming judgment ( a second witness to their sins) but they refused to listen.

@@heather602 Point is What did he preach if there were no laws ? The point of the argument is that they had no laws before Moses . Until Moses they had oral laws . Not to be confused with the oral laws of Judaism of today . We all know how oral laws can be changed from mouth to mouth and from generation to generation. So GOD wrote them in stone . To symbolize that they are not to be changed .

@@jimharmon2300 God says Noah was a preacher of righteousness. That's good enough for me.

@@heather602 Why are you diverting from the subject? The topic is No laws until Moses . That is just not true .

@@jimharmon2300 I wasn't diverting. I answered according to my understanding with biblical support. I don't think anyone is claiming that there were no commandments given by God. God judged Adam and Eve and they weren't given the law of Moses. God judged Cain and he wasn't given the law of Moses. I don't know for certain how God's people understood sin, but somehow they did. That's why I mentioned the conscience as a possibility. But the law, as pertaining to the first covenant, came through Moses. We walk by faith, not by sight. Some things we need to accept at face value. Or pray and ask for wisdom which God promises to those who ask.

That was refreshing. You said Spiritual Israel is it safe to say you hold to Reformed Theology? I tell those in the HRM, I love God's Holy law and I am a Sabbatarian, the Christian Sabbath the Lord's Day, I am a child of Abraham, I am the True Israel. Peace

@@salpezzino7803 I am indeed a reformed theology believer, bro. We the church are New Israel, not the nation. They lost that privilege at the end of the 70 weeks in Daniel with the final rejection of Stephen's message. I'm also a Sabbath keeper 🙂

@@TheFaithofJesus-bk4wl Nice to meet you, Fellow Israel. If those in the HRM understood Reformed theology or Covenant theology they wouldn't be in their Cult, However, God does use cults to keep the Goats out of Jesus's Bride ❤

​@@TheFaithofJesus-bk4wl Aren't you SDA? I've seen you all over Myles channel defending it.

@kimartist Yes, I used to be Baptist.

Scriptural reference, chapter & verse?

So God showed them how to properly prepare a sacrifice and they did it from then on? Welcome to Torah.

@@CadeWillcox I don't know if he showed them or not. I'm not trying to prove one side or the other. Perhaps in the beginning all people sacrificed animals to God, there weren't any Israelites at that time. As people began to populate the earth several groups were formed, which in time became the nations. Maybe the nations began to vary how they did this, which evolved into idol worship, and child sacrifice. So when the descendants of Israel grew from seventy in number (not yet a nation) to over two million and cried out to God for deliverance, he pulled out a people for his name, a people that were previously not a nation. I'm not saying that the sacrificial system was commanded by God before Sinai, but I am saying that the animal sacrifices at Sinai probably had their roots in pre Sinai sacrifices. Just to be clear, I'm not saying these are a matter of fact. Just another possible point of view.

@randylundgren8421 Yeah man, I agree with that. Obviously I lean the way of God showing them how to do pleasing sacrifices from the beginning. Kind of like we see Job offering sin sacrifices for his children, though he isn't an Israelite. I just want to lean away from appealing to coincidence, which is what it seems like sohlberg is doing when he mentions pagan practices over and over again.

"For all who have sinned without the law will perish..." How does someone sin without the law? Paul is referring to people who sin apart from the law of Moses. It's not that sin did not exist before Sinai. Adam sinned against God's commandment. So did Cain. People had the knowledge of good evil, and they likely would have taught righteousness, as Noah did. You don't need a codified law to know murder is wrong, for example. Rebelling against the righteous teaching of your elders is the fruit of a wicked heart, both with the law, and without the law.

@@davidjoly9816 Romans 4:15 " where there is no law there is no sin" 1John3:6 "for sin is the transgression of the law" To clarify I take the position The law was in effect prior to Sinai. The laws of God is the laws of Moses. I agree with your examples because they are proof that the law was existing before Mount Sinai. Sacrifice was used to make Adam's garment. Kane was punished for murder. Noah knew what animals were clean and unclean. People Gain the ability to determine what is good and what is bad after eating the fruit. This is why people in history have declared murder as good such as Genghis Khan. Or idolatry is good or homosexuality is good as we see today (all contrary to God's laws). Ignorance of the law is no excuse, so you just died in ignorance. Romans 5:14-19 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression."

This is typically going to be interpreted as a cultural greeting. In many cultures, a kiss is used as a greeting. Other cultures have a bow, others the shaking of hands.

Hi, Harry! Did you know God has a nose? "At the blast of [God's] nostrils the waters piled up; the floods stood up in a heap; the deeps congealed in the heart of the sea" (Exod. 15:8). ;-) RLS

@@TheBiblicalRoots Hi Rob…not sure what you’re trying to point out here…what you’re saying about the earth going around the sun doesn’t line up with scripture …it would be more helpful if you could clarify your statements with scripture…otherwise it is just your opinion and argument of the flesh…Got Torah Got Truth

​@@harryabrahams2770 It's a reductio ad absurdum (an arguement where the reasoning is taken to a more extreme example to showcase the flaws with the reasoning). In this case he is giving another example of something that would have to be accepted if you categorically reject the possibility that, for example, Joshua is using phenomenological language (the language of appearances). I hope this clears things up.

@@justusmorton6555 Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks! RLS

@@justusmorton6555 thanks for your comment…Rob chose 2 Corinthians 10:5 to justify his attempt to discredit some statements someone had made…he chose to give his lofty opinion raised against the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD ( scripture )..” earth around the sun “ is not in scripture, cannot be verified visually or scientifically…” spins on its axis “.. is not in scripture, cannot be verified visually or scientifically…his response is absurd and condescending unless he can back up his claims…is Rob choosing to follow the flesh over the Spirit??? ..Got Torah Got Truth

that is a load of nonsensical and heretical vomit

@@salpezzino7803 Please explain yourself or keep your trap shut.

@@richhava I am sorry, which part of this did you not understand "that is a load of nonsensical and heretical vomit?"

@@salpezzino7803 It's the Truth. If it's nonsensical then prove me wrong with scripture or something. Other than that you run your mouth and then run like a coward.... So make no mistake here. Gaslighting me will never work. You are a first class COWARD.... So go way or be a man...

Gods laws of faith were given to Abraham, but due to sin in Egypt God amended the Torah given to Abraham, which was fulfilled by the Messiah with a new covenant.

​ @simonskinner1450 As if God would change his mind. Why not giving the "amended" Torah from the beginning? And what exactly is already fulfilled by the Messiah with a "new" covenant? All messianic prophecies with the exception of Isaiah 53 are still outstanding. No world peace, no weapons formed to ploughshares. No Messianic age with the Messiah ruling from Jerusalem yet. The world went on as before, the only exception that Israel, the servant of God, was persecuted and murdered for two thousand years for no other reason but that they were Jews, culminating in the Holocaust, which actually means offering and is in my opinion the fulfilment of Isaiah 53, which describes Israel, the servant, being sacrificed because of the sins of the nations. He (the servant, Israel) was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. (This is what happened in Germany when the Jews were led like a lamb to the death camps) 8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away. (it became oppressive national laws for Jews during this time) Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; (who protested. Not even the nations around Germany protested, not even America) for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b] (It wasn´t anything those Jews did, but the transgression of the nations. It´s the nations that are speaking here) 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. (The innocent were thrown into mass graves, it didn´t matter if they had been rich or poor before. They were not violent, committed no crime nor was any deceit) 10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. (The holocaust means offering. Through this offering Israel became a nation again.) 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e]; by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. (Israel will eventually become a powerful nation and the law will go out from Jerusalem. Nations will look to the Jews for guidance.) 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g] and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h] because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. (Israel shares the spoils of nations because it was persecuted and murdered by the nations. God doesn't forget who touched the apple of his eye) For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (Israel will become a priestly nation again that will make intercession for the transgressors).

​ @simonskinner1450 As if God would change his mind. Why not giving the "amended" Torah from the beginning? And what exactly is already fulfilled by the Messiah with a "new" covenant? All messianic prophecies with the exception of Isaiah 53 are still outstanding. No world peace, now weapons formed to ploughshares. No Messianic age with the Messiah ruling from Jerusalem yet. The world went on as before, the only exception that Israel, the servant of God, was persecuted and murdered for two thousand years for no other reason but that they were Jews, culminating in the Holocaust, which actually means offering and is in my opinion the fulfilment of Isaiah 53, which describes Israel, the servant, being sacrificed because of the sins of the nations. He (the servant, Israel) was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. (This is what happened in Germany when the Jews were led like a lamb to the death camps) 8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away. (it became oppressive national laws for Jews during this time) Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; (who protested. Not even the nations around Germany protested, not even America) for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b] (It wasn´t anything those Jews did, but the transgression of the nations. It´s the nations that are speaking here) 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. (The innocent were thrown into mass graves, it didn´t matter if they had been rich or poor before. They were not violent, committed no crime nor was any deceit) 10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. (The holocaust means offering. Through this offering Israel became a nation again.) 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e]; by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. (Israel will eventually become a powerful nation and the law will go out from Jerusalem. Nations will look to the Jews for guidance.) 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g] and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h] because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. (Israel shares the spoils of nations because it was persecuted and murdered by the nations. God doesn't forget who touched the apple of his eye) For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (Israel will become a priestly nation again that will make intercession for the transgressors).

​@@simonskinner1450 what exactly was fulfilled? Do we have world peace? Is the temple rebuilt and the Levitical priesthood re-established? Does the messiah rule in and the law does go out from Jerusalem? Do all the nations go to Israel once a year to celebrate the feast of tabernacle? The only fulfilment is that Israel, the servant of God, suffered at the hands of the nations for nearly two-thousand years and that they became the offering that caused the return to the nation of Israel. Yet it's only the beginning but we truly now live in the end-times where prophecies are fulfilled within our life-time.

@@rightousliving Jesus fulfilled the law by faith, and the prophets as the Messiah. The gospel of John is witness to Jesus as the Messiah and all prophecy fulfilled.

this page draws in the Crazy - "That law was dead and had no power to save. It was full of sacrifices and burnt offerings, blood and death. God never wanted that" what god do you serve? NutZ

@@salpezzino7803 crazy fits with all of God's servants. I serve the God of my salvation, the one who manifests himself in power by his spirit.

@@prophetcentral However you are a special kinda crazy ---------------- that Satanic kind

No one can claim perfect agape love, 'misses the mark'.

@@swebb77 You're SDA so of course you are "attracted" to the Sabbath you think saves you & vindicates God's character whenever you keep it. Poor God. Whatever will He do without your help? (sarc) When in reality you need His help. Read & understand the Gospels & at least 15 chapters of Acts to be saved.

what the hell is wrong with you? "Adam disobeyed God, he had not sinned as that law did not come in until Moses" You are Insane Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned- Rob how are you making out with your Boy Simon here? Jesus would be rebuking him hashly

Read Romans 5-12-21. Adam did indeed sin. He transgressed the commandment God gave him. You can sin without the law of Moses (Romans 2:12).

@@davidjoly9816 Without the law of sin you cannot be accused of sin, as sin is not imputed when there is no law. It is the principle of disobedience of God's commandments that are sin, and because Adam died, the judicial condemnation that accompanies disobedience is established by Adam. On reflection Paul calls Adams disobedience a sin because of judicial condemnation, so that is in tune with the law given to Moses by the letter, that breaking God's commandments means death. Paul of course was speaking as someone under the jurisdiction of the law, to others in Rome also under the jurisdiction of the law, else without the law sin cannot be imputed.

The destruction of the Jewish Temple and The fully formed Body of Christ determined when the feasts and the middle wall of partition between Jew and Gentile were completely removed and the removal (rapture) of the Body of Christ, rebuilding of the Jewish Temple and the rise of the AntiChrist determines when they come back. (Ro. 16:20; 1 Thess. 2:14-18; Ps. 110:1,4; Eph. 2:14-17, 20-22; He. 8:13; 1 Thess. 4:16,17; 2 Thess 2)

please don't Vern, Satan Loves You

@@salpezzino7803 Opposite of law obeying is LAWLESSNESS. Matthew 7:21-23

Hello, Vern. Respectfully you are anachronistically applying modern racial theory to an ancient text that knew nothing of the sort. This has nothing to do with race (there are more Semitic "races" than merely Israelites) and everything to do with a nation called by God (Exod. 19:3-6). God has one standard, and there is one Shepherd and one flock (John 10:16). And the NT expressly teaches that many of the commands given under the Old Covenant Law do not apply to Christians today. (ex. Repeated blood sacrifices for sin are no longer required (Heb 10:18).) We still serve God and obey His commands, “But now we are released from the law, having died with Christ to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code” (Rom 7:6). And “If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law: (Gal. 5:18). Shalom, RLS

@@Jeff-xt7xs you know what makes me NutZ about you Cultists? In Matthew 7 Jesus was speaking to Torah Keepers about those who believe their works meant something. Torah Keepers are the True Lawless Ones - You are just another ignorant Satanist that has Zero understanding of the Holy Scriptures, you and Vern have shown us this over and over again Christians can't be Lawless - Titus 2 Satan Loves You

@@TheBiblicalRoots I am doing no such thing! I am saying YOUR THEOLOGY is racist, not the text itself. I'm saying that your theology that separates you as a Christian from a Jew is itself racist. You didn't answer the question but instead just threw up a smokescreen to distract from the real issue, the question you refused to answer. Again, one can read Genesis 1 and 2, compare it with Yeshua's words that the Sabbath wasade for mankind. One can realize that the Sabbath was not made at Sinai and thus understand that God is consistent and did give us this blessing from the beginning..... Or you can begin with the preconceived notion that the Sabbath was just for the Jews, that God blessed the seventh day at creation but gave it no application until Sinai. I'm not sure why you would take that approach but here we are. No, you evaded the question, you work much harder inventing reasons not to obey then simply submitting to your Father's instructions. You consistently refer to animal sacrifices. The scriptures make it clear that these had a temporary nature. You want to make the entire Torah temporary. You can choose to obey or you can choose not to be and you choose to invent reasons not to be. Please answer the question, why do you take a negative approach? PS. Why do you ignore the behavior of your follower Sal Pezzino? He is a constant irritant but you say nothing. Also, using words like "respectfully", "Shalom" and "my HR friends" are just empty words and have the opposite effect, it conveys insincerity and makes you appear artificial..just saying

You get rebuked and rebuked and you come back for more. Judaism worships a false god and there is no truth in them

Gen 3:1,2,4,13,14 key word Serpent Rev 12:9; 20:2 key word Serpent

@@100watsoncm That doesn't prove a thing. Only because the book of Revelation mentions the word Serpent doesn't mean the snake in the garden of Eden is not an animal but a Son or Messenger of God (Satan). You can't redefine words in a book from books written many hundred years later. For example the word 'gay' meant happy in the past. Only because today it means something else doesn't mean when I dance the Gay Gordon, that I am gay.

@@rightousliving just because people use a word differently doesn’t negate the original meaning of a word. Does the rainbow mean gay pride or Gods promise to mankind?

@@100watsoncm of course not. That's what I'm saying. A snake meant snake then and still means snake today. However, saying that it actually means Satan (adversary, a son or messenger of God) is giving it a new meaning it never had. In Christian circles snake or serpent has taken a new meaning, which is what happened with the word gay. It still has the original meaning of happy but our generation now doesn't associate it that way anymore. The same with the rainbow. That's why we Christians should be more careful and guarded against misappropriation of words, especially if they have significant meaning in the scriptures.

Your Boy Satan loves you - You must use scripture to interpret scripture Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world-he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him

The law of faith was from the beginning, Adam broke the obedience of faith, but sin was not added to Sinai. I have a Ytube video series 'Myths in so-called Christianity' for NT truth.

@@simonskinner1450 Send a link I always keep my truth on trial. The Holy Spirit is to be trusted more than the 66 books because man has corrupted the snot out of whatever the Bible should say in Hebrew The HS put the idea of the Law governs heaven in me and it does not cross any biblical line.... Look forward to watching your video

@@richhava Unfortunately we have many Pastors today who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit but teach doctrines that often contradict each other. Does the Holy Spirit give one person one revelation and to another a different one that completely contradicts it? Scriptures are important but before we trust it they need to be validated. The books of the TeNaCh were each validated against the teachings of the Torah. Those apocryphal books like Enoch, Tobias, etc, didn't make it into the TeNaCh because they contradict the teachings of the Torah in some way. The same is with the New Testament. It doesn't pass the test against the Torah and therefore should be rejected as being part of a bible. This doesn't mean they are useless, but they need to be critical assessed in the same way as the apocryphal scriptures. They are a mixture between truth and error. There is a saying of Jesus which says that a farmer was sowing good seeds on a field but then a bad person sowed bad seed into the same field. When asked what to do about it he said to let both grow together because dealing with it too early would mean that the good seed would be pulled out together with the bad. Rather wait till harvest time and then separate the good from the bad. We are living now in times of harvest and it's time we separate the good seed from the bad.

@@richhava Sorry not very literate at sending a link, but my latest video title might help you search, 'Is Christianity the truth of the NT? No. #31 Myths in so-called Christianity'. The series is 'Myths in so-called Christianity', I hope you do check it out.

@@simonskinner1450 I can find it that way... Ty I will check it out and get back with you... But I have a question for you? What governed heaven if not the Law. Satan allowed the sin of selfishness (pride cause he wanted to be like the Most High). If not the breaking of the Law, what is it.?