Downscaling Chronicles 12: The RetroTink 4K can Downscale! 1080p decimation to output 240p on a CRT

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The RetroTink 4K is an AMAZING upscaler, but it has another trick up its sleeve; DOWNSCALING (well acshewly, DECIMATING). Not officially intended for downscaling, the Tink 4K's 'back door' feature can output 240p with custom modelines. It works exceptionally well to restore integer upscaled retro games to play on a standard definition CRT: Consoles such as the NES mini and SNES mini, and the Analogue Pocket via the Dock, plus more!
Disclaimer: The RetroTink is an upscaler. Downscaling to 240p is not an advertised or an officially supported feature, therefore should not be judged on the merits of downscaling alone.
Thanks to SquidDude and JoeBot for the tip about shifting the OSD.
I unfortunately tested lag in triple buffer mode which resulted in 0-2 frames. With HDMI Output setting to Gen Lock, lag for all downscaling scenarios should only be approximately 3msec.
Update 13 July 2024: Experimental Firmware Version 1.5.1
retrotink-llc.github.io/firmw...
Menu now works in 240p output using temporal downscaling
Added ability to generate interlaced output timings
As per Mike Chi: currently interlaced output really only works without scaling. For example, 480i output can pass 480i input OR convert 480p - 480i. 1080i can pass 1080i inputs or convert 1080p - 1080i
See the video below for downscaling to 480i:
Downscaling Chronicles Mini: RetroTink 4K 480i output and 240p menu fix
• Downscaling Chronicles...
Purchase link:
www.retrotink.com/product-pag...
Wiki:
consolemods.org/wiki/AV:Retro...
Guspaz’s RetroTink 4K Timing Calculator:
guspaz.github.io/video_timing...
240p modeline and profiles:
drive.google.com/file/d/14PRc...
These profiles will almost certainly require some tweaking to fit them to your display. 480p/720p/1080p to 240p profiles were optimised using the Nintendo Switch. 720p to 240p stretched was made using the SNES Mini console. 480i to 240p was made using the Panasonic 3DO with S-Video input.
00:00 Intro
03:58 Setup
08:33 Lag and Downscaling
16:18 Final Thoughts
#crtgaming #downscaling #240p #retrotink #4k

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Опубликовано:

5 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 57

@MarcoRetro316 23 дня назад

Update1: I unfortunately tested lag in triple buffer mode. With Gen Lock in the HDMI Output setting, lag in all downscaling scenarios should only be approximately 3msec. Update 2: The RetroTink 4K can Interlace! Downscaling Chronicles Mini: RetroTink 4K 480i output and 240p menu fix ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0hUuxa0Wbns.html Update 13 July 2024: Experimental Firmware Version 1.5.1 retrotink-llc.github.io/firmware/4k-experimental.html Menu now works in 240p output using temporal downscaling Added ability to generate interlaced output timings As per Mike Chi: currently interlaced output really only works without scaling. For example, 480i output can pass 480i input OR convert 480p - 480i. 1080i can pass 1080i inputs or convert 1080p - 1080i

@TheWammbo Месяц назад

Awesome a new Episode on my favorite series besides Game of Thrones ;)

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

I’ve got to find out George R. R. Martin’s secret! Thank you

@VirtuaVillain Месяц назад

That intro is class!

@rawkandetc Месяц назад

Another superb entry in the series!

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

Thanks mate!!

@koopaklaw4605 Месяц назад

God, I love your videos so much

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

Thank you once again my friend!

@joshuakelly9390 Месяц назад

Yesssssss. This is what I've been waiting for. Let's see it!!

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

I remember you asked about the Tink 4K, hopefully this gives an insight what it can do

@joshuakelly9390 Месяц назад

@@MarcoRetro316 absolutely it does! Incredibly helpful. Thank you!! ❤️

@matherzinsstuff3410 Месяц назад

Great opening, i loved the money saving storytelling!

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

Thank you! The piggy was worth the sacrifice

@0mnis14sh Месяц назад

We thank you for your service 🙏

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

I appreciate that 🫡

@sneakingelephant 28 дней назад

My man has all 3 of the major retro scalers 😮 jeeeeez

@MarcoRetro316 28 дней назад

@@sneakingelephant I’d only be rocking 1 scaler if it weren’t for the Downscaling Chronicles. My wallet has definitely taken a hit in making these

@sneakingelephant 28 дней назад

@@MarcoRetro316 well i gotta thank you. You are making me consider the ossc pro despite owning the tink4k. I love playing around with downscaling

@MarcoRetro316 28 дней назад

@@sneakingelephant these kinds of comments tells me it’s been a worthwhile journey. I’m eager to see how the Morph will behave as a downscaler. It has big shoes to fill against the OSSC Pro, hopefully it has some features to make it stand out

@AustinTroth Месяц назад

I’m glad the modeline I gave was a decent starting point! Mike actually generated that one for me. I made a couple downscaling profiles for DS games running on the Wii U, I should probably upload those somewhere as they worked quite well from what I remember

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

Ohh I didn’t know, but take that credit and run with it haha. It was a little different to any of the 1440x240 modelines on Guspaz’s calculator so I know someone clever had tweaked it. The input/output relationship is quiet particular on how the image is cropped and scanned so I’m sure someone will benefit from a WiiU specific profile

@AnyBitsFTP Месяц назад

Saved me a fortune mate. Pro all the way for me

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

If it’s downscaling you want then yeh the Pro is better. Depends if 4K upscaling is needed, If so then the Tink 4K will suffice

@snesfan8935 Месяц назад

For me right now ODV GBS-C working perfectly for downscaling Switch (480p to 240p). Especially after soldering sync mixer it works like a charm.

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

The GBS is great for its price and I was doing the same as you early on when experimenting with the setup. A sync combiner is a good idea as it’s either that or a powered DAC for component

@harrysacket 26 дней назад

Any ideas of what scaler I can use to put a border around a 720p input and make a pixel perfect 768p output image?

@MarcoRetro316 26 дней назад

@@harrysacket you could theoretically do that with the RetroTink 4K with a custom modeline. Some Corio2 TVOne scalers *might* allow you as well with a similar concept of a custom resolution. I know the border on TVOne’s are blue by default and not sure you can change to black. Otherwise some Extron scalers like the IN1606 have several 768 vertical outputs with differing horizontal sizes for aspect ratio. They have image resizing controls that may allow you to pad the 720p input

@CRTscanlines Месяц назад

i prefer ossc pro than r4k for downscaling😁 although i don't have both. nice intro btw 😁😂

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

Thanks mate, it cost me a kidney 🫘! I’m with you, the OSSC Pro is still the king of downscaling

@DrLilo Месяц назад

So RT4K is (currently) a bad choice for 480i > 240p downscaling? Shame, that's my main usecase, I quite like having a non-software solution to play PS2 games in 240p. I sold my RT5X to help afford the 4K, so I'm currently lacking a device that's ideal for that... Which would you recommend today?

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

Only in my brief testing with a 480i input I’d say it’s not straightforward. Downscaling on the Tink4K generally worked well because of the pre-scale feature doing most of the vertical resizing, but I couldn’t get that to influence the 480i input whatsoever. Instead it was the CRT simulate feature that squeezed the 480i input vertically but I couldn’t get rid of the simulated 480i flicker that comes with that option. Otherwise with the over-scanned 480i, the vertical factor can probably be reduced below 1.0 similar to how I squeezed the horizontal factor for the 1080p input. I haven’t tried this but a similar approach would be to reduce the bottom crop, then reduce the vertical factor to 1.0, then increase the bottom crop and hopefully it drops below 1.0 and fits/centres itself. If 480i to 240p is what you’re after and you’re on a budget then the GBS Control is the best option. Otherwise the RT5x and OSSC Pro are equally as good at 480i>240p. If budget isn’t an issue I recommend the OSSC Pro for downscaling, they should be in stock early August 2024.

@NightSprinter Месяц назад

The only issue I can see with the OSSC route, is that I literally cannot find anywhere that sells one. VGP used to have them, but they've been sold out for quite a long time.

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

I read in the latest newsletter VGP should have stock early August 2024. They wrote there should be enough to not have to pre order or wait list, hopefully you’ll have no trouble getting one

@NightSprinter Месяц назад

@@MarcoRetro316 cheers, mate! As an owner of two original OSSCs (a 1.5 with audio board and a 1.6), I think the Pro would do a lot better for me. Especially given the fact I have some old DOS computers (of which the HDMI input would pair great with the RGB2HDMI).

@onepiece190993 Месяц назад

Lol that intro 😄

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

Something lighthearted and wholesome 😆

@soundsonline796 Месяц назад

Until we get a dedicated device its just not worth my time. Enjoy your videos thank you

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

Thank you! The OSSC Pro might be the closest thing so far. It would be nice to have an option that removes the upscaling capabilities to offset some of the cost. Not sure that’s even viable if the same hardware is needed

@soundsonline796 Месяц назад

@@MarcoRetro316 That is kind of what I was thinking. Hopefully your video series brings awareness to people like mike and markus that this is something a lot of people actually want and they can offer a dedicated downscaling version of their firmware. If you can cater to vhs transfer 🙄 you can cater to downscaling.

@fink32 Месяц назад

Should have used shipito, once it’s there you can pay them extra to remove purchase amount from the package and specify a new value under the Aus import tax threshold. Would have saved yourself a lot.

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

A proxy shipper? Thanks for recommending, I didn’t think to look at other alternatives

@RobNomad Месяц назад

what i learned today: the retrotink 4K costs a ligetime savings

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

And left kidney

@nattapolnatt1301 Месяц назад

checkout this point the video 4:23 [Where can I get VGA2Scart?] Thanks!

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

I made the one featured in the video. There’s a few options to purchase www.ebay.com.au/itm/114489119197?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0&ssspo=bPsiC-xhSsC&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=oXeW_LijToy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=220&rn=582&action=show_detail

@nattapolnatt1301 Месяц назад

@@MarcoRetro316 Thanks. This is the same feature that you made in link?

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

@@nattapolnatt1301 they will functionally do the same thing but they both need external power to power the sync combining circuit. This product is closer to what I made with a passive sync combiner.

@nattapolnatt1301 Месяц назад

@@MarcoRetro316 got it! All Scart Tv, they need sync combiner with power, right?

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

@@nattapolnatt1301 yep you’re correct. I’m pretty sure the HD15 2Scart would allow voltage to pass through from VGA pin 9 to scart pin 16. The problem is that most HDMI to VGA converters won’t send voltage to VGA pin 9, so you may need one of the powered solutions. I use a Gscart switcher which sends blanking voltage regardless if the input doesn’t supply it, so that always saves me if I just want to input RGBs without worrying about introducing voltage to scart pin 16

@cortbelmont Месяц назад

I wonder if you are aware of how most "pixel art" games work these days, the vertical shimmer you see can't be avoided on consoles, on PC some well made games can avoid it completely looking amazing, others avoid it a certain degree. Some are pretty much perfect like Blazing Chrome giving a perfect 427x240 1x window and TOUHOU Luna Nights with a perfect 640x360 1x window (you'll need a VGA CRT to display this one correctly). Most of the pixel art games have no real pixels, they just draw squares on screen and these do NOT represent the minimum possible display movement. These pixels are uneven sized by nature during scrolling even if they look ok in a screenshot and they are able to advance half a pixel causing shimmer even if pixel size is even. I studied many pixel art games and most are not made to be displayed with scanlines effect or on a CRT, they look like they could have perfect scanlines but... no. Easy is "Evil Tonight" which won't offer a 1x window as its scrolling on every direction depends on moving half a pixel, it's a shame as it's a damn good game

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

Thank you for the in depth run down. Yes I’m fully aware about some modern pixel art assets not drawn to a strict base resolution hence the shimmer, though I could probably not have explained it as eloquently as you have. I deliberately choose such games to demonstrate that pixel art doesn’t automatically equal a good time if you force it into a 240p output and so viewers won’t wonder why it doesn’t look correct if they try using an external device for downscaling. These are the ‘non-vertical integer upscaled modern pixel art games’ (bit of a mouthful) that I go on about. I will eventually be making an episode on using a PC to output 15KHz, I just have to find time. I’ll be sure to look into Blazing Chrome, thanks for that suggestion. I don’t have a 24KHz compatible set on hand to try Luna Nights but I’ve generally capped the output at 15KHz so I can maintain focus on the topic. I’m not so well versed in PC’s so it may be surface-level knowledge for super users already using this method.

@cortbelmont Месяц назад

@@MarcoRetro316 don't think too much about VGA monitors complexities just think of them as 31+KHz monitors, they go from 480p (31KHz) to 1440p and some can go even higher, so you can just play any 720p or 1080p game there and get the motion resolution benefits. For 480p these monitors still show natural scanlines and look beautiful so these pixel art games that allow 1x are asking to be played in one of these monitors. Now a VGA CRT + RT4K is just a match made in heaven. Create a custom res on the RT4K 1280x1024 and take any pixel game on 720p, add deep dark scanlines, prescale at 1/2 or 1/3 and enjoy. This match will be superior to any downscaling as image will actually fit the screen

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

Sounds awesome. Having the L5 PVM’s has stopped me getting a PC CRT even though the L5’s don’t reach anywhere near the bandwidth of a PC monitor. I’ve avoided these scenarios more for the sake of keeping the series focused to 15KHz. I experience burn-out after making each video on a focused topic, let alone broader options. But I’ll never say never, once I’m up to date with all the available downscaling options I may look into a video dedicated to consumer HD CRT’s and PC monitors. Wife is gonna kill me if I bring home another CRT 😅

@zombiekilldemon Месяц назад

Can the Retrotink4k do 1080i? And if so how does it compare to the OSSC PRO when it comes to lag?

@MarcoRetro316 Месяц назад

The Tink4K is currently unable to output any interlaced resolutions, not sure that’ll change in the future. The OSSC Pro is getting 1080i 100/120Hz output in the next firmware update. The Pro has a line multiplier mode which is generally zero lag though I’m not sure 1080i output will be tied to that mode or the scaler mode which typically has the same lag as the RetroTink 4K at about 1.2 frames