Dr Marshall's thoughts on the Anglican Ordinariate

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3 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 114

@tdacosta Год назад

I attend an Ordinariate parish in California, for lack of a local TLM, and I must highlight a few things I observe all the time at my church: beautiful liturgy, beautiful music, reverential altar servers and priests, ad orientem priest, communion on the mouth with parishioners on their knees, tons of kids and babies in the pews along with faithful and devout young and old people who love God, and strong orthodox preaching from the pulpit. I couldn't be happier after suffering through very casual NO masses in Los Angeles. Given the state of crisis in the church, I welcome the Ordinariate in my area and feel blessed it's here.

@stevedavis6618 2 года назад

I would gladly trade a married priest for every homosexual clergy in the Church today.

@thomasmooney5653 2 года назад

Both are a big NO.

@adrianjohnson7920 Год назад

@@thomasmooney5653 Too simplistic. However Dr Marshal is honest in saying that his is a personal taste for the Ordinariate liturgy. He does not mention that formerly Anglican clergy are "grandfathered"-- if their wives die, they are forbidden to re-marry. I know many Ordinariate priests-- I can attest that the sort of humble, patient, and saintly woman who becomes a clergyman's wife seems to be given that self-sacrificial vocation by God. They are a special breed who willingly stands in the shadows, and knows that the needs of her husband's flock will always be a part of her marriage. St Paphnutius (himself celibate) argued many centuries ago that the vocation of the priesthood and the vocation of celibacy are different but can coincide. As a Cradle Catholic seeking holy and reverent liturgy, my spiritual life has bloomed under the Ordinariate in a way it never did even in a good NO parish. And while I respect and was raised with the Latin Mass, ( I am 74) It's not a nearby option for me, and I can't be at ease in a felloship with TLM Mass fanatics. I don't like the NO, but it is valid and I respect it even when it is not said with what I think is proper reverence. This is why the Ordinariate is a natural fit for me. My spiritual life flourishes in it. I draw closer to God. End of.

@richlopez4203 Год назад

@@thomasmooney5653 My parish priest is married with 3 kids.Married priests are the norm in the Byzantine Catholic Rite.

@vincentreyes6154 Год назад

The celibate priesthood, though Biblical, is a discipline of the Church and not dogma. Many Byzantine Catholic priests are married, and they are no less valid or licit than a traditional Roman Catholic priest. A married priesthood is not foreign or hostile to the priesthood or the Church in general. Though it is not recommended since abuses can and have occurred over this issue. Even now, married priests are forbidden to remarry if they become widowers.

@larryhicks4203 Год назад

Agreed!

@anthonylangford7797 Год назад

I have attended the Ordinariate Mass a few times and I must admit I feel at home.

@johnpolitis7929 Год назад

@anthonylandgford7797 The Ordinariate uses a 3 Year Lectionary, not a 1 yr. This means it follows the New Mass including the New Mass calendar of saints, lectionary, propers, etc. not the Traditional Mass in English.

@anthonylangford7797 Год назад

@@johnpolitis7929 What do you suggest if there is no TLM or Eastern Catholic Mass/Liturgy near me but there is an Ordinariate parish?

@Drummarforhire 7 месяцев назад

@@johnpolitis7929while I'm not the biggest fan of the new lectionary, it's not horrible. No one who knows what they are talking about claims it's the Latin mass in English, but it does have all the same prayers that the Latin mass does. Almost word for word.

@nanetteparratto-wagner1127 2 года назад

"Nothing can come but that that God wills." St. Thomas More. God has a plan for this Anglican reunification with Rome.

@adrianjohnson7920 Год назад

If you knew how badly the Devil hates it, and how hard the Liberal Bishops discouraged it, you would realise its success so far is purely a work of the Holy Spirit for the renewal of the vernacular English liturgy. This is why Benedict loved it.

@khw88141 Год назад

The Anglican Ordinariate is keeping my family sane during the reign of terror that is Francis. Thank you for your work on it. It is beautiful.

@johnpolitis7929 Год назад

@khw8141 The Ordinariate uses a 3 Year Lectionary, not a 1 yr. This means it follows the New Mass including the New Mass calendar of saints, lectionary, propers, etc. not the Traditional Mass in English. It's just as Novus Ordo as Francis.

@juice2307 9 месяцев назад

The Tridentine Latin mass is not the only good or valid expression, neither is it the only good and valid right. To say otherwise is heresy. I am a Trad, but to be a TLM-onlyist is to be in error.

@johnpolitis7929 9 месяцев назад

@@juice2307 Well, I am actually pre-Tridentine like the Sarum or Salisbury Use. However, the New Mass is invalid. The Tridentine Mass is just one of many traditional rites in the Catholic Church, but the New Mass is invalid. It was put together with the help of 6 Protestant ministers and it teaches Modernism and Protestantism.

@BoaConstrictor126 Год назад

Believe it or not the Mass in England during the time of Alfred the Great was similar to the Anglican Ordinariate

@johnpolitis7929 9 месяцев назад

@BoaConstrictor126 No, it was not similar. It would have been the Old Anglo-Saxon liturgy with a 1 Year Lectionary, not the Novus Ordo one with a 3 Year Lectionary.

@Consume_Crash 9 месяцев назад

Source? I'd be interested in reading about the old English Liturgy

@Thurifer2005 Год назад

I'm an Ordinariate Altar server. Very similar to the TLM! Although, I don't like the cramner prayers or Eucharistic prayer II, but everything from the TLM is retained in the Ordinariate Use. By the way, "Anglican Use" is an in-authentic term.

@arom219 Год назад

Why excatly don't you (and some others) like the Cramner Eucharistic prayers? Could you please tell me where I can find those prayers? Thank you.

@Thurifer2005 Год назад

@@arom219 The Canon is unchangeble. I'm not sure where to find those. Possibly in an anglican missal.

@johnpolitis9060 Год назад

@@Thurifer2005 Which is what I use.

@adrianjohnson7920 Год назад

@@Thurifer2005 It's always the 1st (Roman Canon) Eucharistic Prayer, in formal, rather poetic English. It's online under Ordiariate Liturgy.

@DavidWilson-hd6iz Год назад

The Divine Worship Daily Office (of the Ordinariate) is an excellent Breviary!

@martiniron3376 Год назад

the commonwealth or the NA edition?

@DavidWilson-hd6iz Год назад

@@martiniron3376 The Commonwealth Edition. I haven't seen the other one.

@martiniron3376 Год назад

@@DavidWilson-hd6iz Thanks. I still hesitate to get a copy. After all it contains Cranmerian collects and prayers. However there is nothing wrong with the prayers. They are theologically sound as far as I know. The DW:DO CE is very tempting. I love Sarum and the Anglican Catholicism. I guess it is primarily due to the fact that the english is archaic and sacral. Is it possible to use this Office book with the 1962 calendar and lectionary? I know the psalter is completely different.

@DavidWilson-hd6iz Год назад

@@martiniron3376 I understand your hesitancy, it isn't cheap! Yes, it's definitely possible to use the 1962 calendar and lectionary with it, because I did something similar, but that leaves the scripture readings included in it redundant. It's fully Catholic, approved by Rome (Benedict XVI). Virtually all the Collects Cranmer used were translated verbatum from the Sarum Rite. I remember once comparing it with the Fr Lasance Missal. There's a channel, "Convinced Catholicism", that does a good review of it. Another one he reviews is the Anglican Office Book, which is surprisingly Catholic, drawing heavily on the Sarum Rite. It uses the Psalms of Ascent for the Minor Hours, whereas the DW:DO uses Psalm 118 [119] split up, and doesn't contain the Scripture readings, making it a lighter book. BTW, The Little Office of the BVM is also excellent. I'd recommend the Baronius Press version. It uses the Douay-Rheims and the Psalms of Ascent. Decisions, decisions, eh? :) P.S. The Coverdale Psalms (in the DW:DO) are surprisingly good! Although Coverdale knew a little Greek and Hebrew, Latin was his strength by far, and he translated them almost entirely from the Latin Vulgate.

@King-uj1lh 2 года назад

The ordinariate is not the Novus Ordo, married clergy are absolutely fine, and they have existed in the east for 2000 years, is it ideal? No. But it is fine. The ordinariate is a beautiful and revrent form of mass, that is far more similair to the TLM then the NO. Anything that was Anglican that was retained is not opposed to catholic doctrine, like the summary of the law for example. Absence nothing protestant about saying that during mass.

@johnpolitis9060 2 года назад

Yes, the Ordinariate is the Novus Ordo in King James English. Did you hear what Taylor Marshall said?

@King-uj1lh 2 года назад

@@johnpolitis9060 no its not. 1. It retains prayers at the foot of the altar, the okd confietor, the final gospel, the cannon must be said, its always ad orientium and with communion on the tongue, the offeratory prayers are back, the roof prayer is said 3 times, the Kyrie is in triplets, etc etc.

@johnpolitis9060 Год назад

@@King-uj1lh It is not the Tridentine Mass in King James English. It has Christ Has Risen, Christ Will Die Again that is found in the New Mass, not the Tridentine Mass.

@tradne85 Год назад

The Ordinariate Liturgy is neither the Novus Ordo nor the English version of the TLM. It has its own identity and heritage. Though it does have similarities to both.

@johnpolitis7929 9 месяцев назад

@@tradne85 The Ordinariate Liturgyf has the 3 Year Lectionary of the New Mass, not 1 Year Lectionary. It has Christ Has Risen, Christ Will Die Again that is found in the New Mass, not the Tridentine Mass. I would rather use the English(Knott) Missal, the Anglican Missal, or The American Missal instead that supplements the BCP(Book of Common Prayer) or is a combination of the BCP and the Tridentine Mass in English. At least, these 3 have a 1 Year Lectionary, not a 3 Year one. I would also use the Sarum Use alone or combined with the BCP.

@josellers1376 11 месяцев назад

Thank you for your wise, fair words Dr Marshall. God bless you and your whole family. It's fun to learn from you.

@charlesestrada9203 Год назад

The fact is, there were numerous rites in use in the Western Church before the Council of Trent, they were all basically done away with and the Mass used by Rome was adopted and became the norm for the Western Church, namely The Tridentine Mass.

@johnpolitis7929 Год назад

@charlesestrada9203 Which led to the Novus Ordo and Trent eliminated Sarum Use.

@marriedkiwi 2 года назад

Im part of an ordinariate parish in Wales, wonderful priest...and I agree...now making the effort to travel 40 miles to get to the Latin mass

@King-uj1lh 2 года назад

The Oridnariate is completely valid, licit and traditional, any prayers retained from Anglicanism are not contrary to Catholic doctrine at all. Most of it is from traditional catholic sources.

@marriedkiwi 2 года назад

@@King-uj1lh I'd disagree. The ordinariate is substantially the new order with a few traditional bits, definitely not traditional. Definitely inferior in its parts and entirety to the Latin mass

@King-uj1lh 2 года назад

@@marriedkiwi final gospel, roman cannon, ad orientium, communion on the tounge, foot of the altar prayers, old confiteor, kyrie in triplets. Its more then a “little tradition” sprinkled in.

@King-uj1lh 2 года назад

@@marriedkiwi just because something is older doesn’t also mean its better, the tridentine significantly changed many rites before it and so on.

@marriedkiwi 2 года назад

@@King-uj1lh I'm very happy using the 1962 missal. Remember Saint PJPII said it was a "rightful and valid" aspiration and Pope Benedict went further and commended the faithful to request this beautiful mass? Recalling Pope Francis that the REAL traditional and ancient mass is actually the novus ordo because it goes back to bare bones-- just how it was in ancient times. Can one assume you agree with Pope Francis that older does not mean its better? Putting all that aside King- you know nothing about the development of the mass beyond a Jesuit mass article. Can i recommend Dr Gihr's book "the holy sacrifice of the Mass"?

@johngallagher8527 2 года назад

Hey Marshal, Please don’t leave the true fold.

@adrianjohnson7920 Год назад

He's a bit prejudiced; but he's the first one to admit this up -front. YOU attend an Ordinariate Sunday liturgy, and see if it brings you closer to God. If so, go for it.

@bsontrop 2 года назад

Pardon my ignorance and confusion, but 1/ the Anglican Ordinairiate uses the SARUM RITE for its Liturgy. That Rite goes back to 11th Century Diocese of Salisbury (England), and before that to 8th Century Gaul (France). After the Protestant Revolt -at which time LATIN was the going Ecclesial language -Cranmer, who, of course knew Latin well, translated the Sarum Rite Liturgy into English, not changing any essentials. Now . . would someone please correct my cursory knowledge of the Historical facts, if NOT correct, and tell me why Cranmer's un-tampered-with English translation of the Sarum Rite (used in the Anglican Ordinariate . . the one Pope Benedict XVI approved -?? yes? no? -when he brought whole Anglican Parishes into the Catholic Church) is PROTESTANT. Cranmer became Protestant, but the Sarum Rite was Catholic (under the Diocese of Salisbury, 1060 or so). It's prayers of the Mass continue to be Catholic. So, I do not understand Taylor's beef about (as an Anglican Priest) praying "Cranmer's Protestant prayers". Please explain. Thank you.

@marriedkiwi 2 года назад

The ordinariate rite is not Sarum liturgy. A borrowed prayer or two nothing more

@hoosinhan Год назад

Mr Marshall's thought is that the Anglicanism is a form of Protestanism, albeit the most similiar with Roman Catholic, a via media, in Anglican's own words. So to said mass in Anglican church is saying a Protestant mass. It is true that Anglican mass descended from Sarum, Salisbury Latin mass, albeit condensed into simpler form because the original Sarum Mass was more complicated. The Protestant Cranmer and many of Protestant Anglican divines did add or modify several aspects of Anglican mass along the centuries. Thats why Anglican form of mass was corrected doctinally before it became a valid Latin rite vernacular Catholic mass. Anyone compared Mass of BCPs and DW missal or BDW would notify many slight differences between them.

@johnpolitis9060 Год назад

@@hoosinhan How about comparing the DW Missal or BDW with the Anglican Missal, The Knott(English Missal), or the American Missal that are all Anglican and Anglo-Catholic.

@hoosinhan Год назад

@@johnpolitis9060 if i am not mistaken, bdw takes eucharistic rite of roman missal then modify it slightly to make it more like anglican.

@adrianjohnson7920 Год назад

Cranmer was just a translator -- albeit a splendid one. He translated the current Latin rite into superb formal and beautiful English, and left out the small percentage that was specifically "Papist,". The Book of Divine Worship / Sacramentary / Missal has merely replaced the Catholic bits Cranmer left out. What's not to like? the formal beauty of English at its finest, dedicated to "the worship of the Lord in the beauty of holiness." Words are important. The Ordinariate Liturgy makes me profoundly humble and grateful before God in the way the dumbed-down English of the NO doesn't. So it's a no-brainer which improves my spiritual life, and advances my salvation. P.S: Cradle Catholic here, one with a minor in Theology and Philosophy.

@elijeremiah1058 2 года назад

So glad you’re on our team 💪

@denise4440 7 месяцев назад

I’m confused. I’ve been welcomed in an Ordinate Church and I was born and raised Roman Catholic. I left the church for many years and returned. I tried my local big R.C. parish and I remember why I left. My neighbor is Anglican and wanted me to come to her church. Not knowing what to expect, I came across the Ordinate Church. I absolutely found my home. It is very traditional but the priests are so available and the young are everywhere. Mass and confession everyday. Some priest are married but the new ones cannot. On thier website it states”Members of the Ordinariate are fully Roman Catholic”. But Roman Catholics I know ( which is getting fewer and fewer), tell me it’s not. What is it?

@larryhicks4203 Год назад

I wish I had an Ordinariate parish in my diocese. Because if we did, I would attend it in a heartbeat.

@HanBaby82 2 месяца назад

Best fit for me! Grew up an Episcopalian but married a cradle Catholic. Keep it!

@rosannerossi6376 2 года назад

They used you! But I’m a cradle Catholic and they used me too! But the Holy Spirit lead us to Tradition. Jesus, “I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” ♥️🙏🏼☦️ I’m on the team. You’re fortunate that your kids aren’t adults yet. Mine are still NO. I taught my grandchildren to say the rosary in Latin. Please pray for them.

@mariehiggins5225 2 года назад

I am a cradle Catholic as well and was not privy to all that was going on in the church universal during Vatican 2. Like all good catholic women I was following the direction of my pastor who was trying his best to follow Rome. I was director of our CCD school and was privileged to became a Eucharistic minister which I cherished. I left the Catholic church 20 years ago and am now returning slowly because of the TLM and my devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Padre Pio. The struggle to fully return has been enormous due to the pontificate of Bergolio etc & the corruption of the church's hierarchy and doctrines. At 78 I'm constantly seeking & asking the Lord, " how do I, and can I, function under such circumstances"; only with His leading and grace.

@denise4440 5 месяцев назад

As a cradle Catholic who left the church for 13 years and just church hopped to nondenominational churches, the Ordinate has brought me back. My priest is a married ex Episcopalian. I have no problem with that. There are celibate priests as well. Mass is beautiful, it’s very traditional. The growth is enormous and it is now my home. I originally tried to go back to my old Diocese, but after 2 masses, I remembered why I left.

@domfecit 2 года назад

In the unfortunate circumstance that the TLM is not available with in a 150 miles of you and a thriving Ordinariate community is, would you assist at the Ordinariate Mass ?

@sahn105 2 года назад

Conscience, clear Due diligence, still required Move, something to discern

@BoaConstrictor126 Год назад

@@sahn105 what about people who cannot afford to move? Or are taking care of a disabled relative that makes moving infeasible?

@atlproductions216 Год назад

@@sahn105 what is wrong with novus ordo. Better yet what is wrong with the Anglican ordinate if the bishop of Rome gave way to its creation. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding…

@adrianjohnson7920 Год назад

We all have a duty to seek what is best for our salvation & individual soul. I had been a member of a good NO church, with good Priest, good congregation; but my spiritual life took off like a rocket when I started attending the Ordinariate Liturgy. I was humbler before God, had a greater appreciation of his Power, wisdom and love; I realised that I was thirsting for a holiness that this liturgy provided. I began more frequent confession; found the ordinariate priests good spiritual directors willing to spend time with me; and my prayer life deepened outside Mass. And, I was surrounded by others who also wanted to seek God first, rather than be always "building community" with a "preferential option for the poor". . . The Ordinariate liturgy is a more contemplative manner of worship, the music more classic, more formal, -- more humble before God, more at ease with the mystery of God's beauty and the miracle of the Incarnation and more deeply appreciative of the Redemption. "You have to go where your soul is best fed. . . . " The scholarly priests' sermons tend to be more historically savvy, and bolder in addressing the "hard sayings of the Gospel" which I like to be challenged with. The N O priests tend to be lightly "woke" and avoid mentioning sin, hell, our place in a hostile society. . . .A sermon from a priest who sacrificed his C of E. pension and home to swim the Tiber in faith has a lot more moral force than a priest who fears to say anything in his sermons which might get him scolded or even canceled by his bishop. . . . . but maybe that's just me 😎

@adrianjohnson7920 Год назад

In a New York minute. Try it -- if it brings you closer to God, stay with it.

@andrewburch3694 Год назад

It's not the TLM, but it's not the Novus Ordo either. The lectionary is post-conciliar, but the orations match the 1962 Missal.

@johnpolitis7929 Год назад

@andrewburch3694 It should a 1 year Lectionary otherwise it's Novus Ordo. If it's post-Conciliar, it's Novus Ordo.

@primusnocturn 2 года назад

Taylor could you do an episode covering Greek Catholic churches? I'm wondering what's your take on that.

@karenmunch4316 2 года назад

I hope I get this right but Fr. Gregory Hesse said that the Greek Orthodox are in schism. The Greek United are not in schism.

@hoosinhan Год назад

The Greek Catholic Church is part of Byzantine Rite Catholic and in full communion with the Pope. The Greek Orthodox Church is the one not in full communion.

@Consume_Crash 9 месяцев назад

Any recommended reading for those interested in the Sarum Rite/old English liturgy?

@ΆγιοςΙερώνυμος-χ2γ 9 месяцев назад

I thought the Anglican Ordinariate missal was based on the Sarum usage?

@johnpolitis7929 9 месяцев назад

@user-oh3tl7je1q Unfortunately, it is not. It is based on a mixture of Anglican and New Mass in Old English with a 3 Year Lectionary, not a 1 Year Lectionary.

@ΆγιοςΙερώνυμος-χ2γ 9 месяцев назад

@@johnpolitis7929oh really? But isn’t the Anglican Book of Common Prayer based on the Sarum Missal?

@johnpolitis7929 9 месяцев назад

@@ΆγιοςΙερώνυμος-χ2γ Yes it is and the Sarum Missal should supplement the BCP(Book of Common Prayer) instead of the Tridentine Missal. And the reason is that the BCP is based on the Sarum Missal. So that should be norm, not the Tridentine or the Novus Ordo Mass.

@Drummarforhire 7 месяцев назад

The collects are the Sarum collects with a few new compositions for new feast days. Unfortunately there is not a full Sarum missal that survived the English deformation.

@jackwilliamatkins5602 2 года назад

I'm the Top Accountability Captain to King Charles III.

@adrianjohnson7920 Год назад

And your point is ---? 🥱

@wilftodd3696 11 месяцев назад

He isn't the king

@giovanniserafino1731 2 года назад

I was never a fan of their liturgy. Unfortunately, no matter how “beautiful” the language there is still too much protestant Cranmer in their liturgy. After all, they left the errors of anglicanism in order to become Catholic. It would have been better for them to adopt the Sarum Rite which was the official Catholic Rite of Mass in the British isles before the protestant revolt against Rome.

@christopher8341 2 года назад

Would you allow that in English?

@giovanniserafino1731 2 года назад

@@christopher8341 This is a good question. The Sarum Rite, of course, was in Latin. However, while preferring Latin, I would have no objections to some of the rites being in English, particularly the epistles and Gospel as long as the translations were accurate. This certainly would be in line with Pope Benedict’s teaching concerning an organic development of the liturgy.

@christopher8341 2 года назад

@@giovanniserafino1731 we're also following up he Orthodox, they have a revised Anglican liturgy which they call the liturgy of St Thikon

@giovanniserafino1731 2 года назад

@@christopher8341 Yes, I have heard of it and it sounds very interesting. Apparently, they believe that this liturgy was one of the ancient Orthodox rites celebrated in the West including the British Isles. I would certainly like to see the liturgical evidence for that position.

@christopher8341 2 года назад

@@giovanniserafino1731 It's because Anglicans went to Thikon and asked if they could convert but keep those liturgies