So Warner Bros just announced a whole slate of new Lord of the Rings movies are in development, and it's all kicking off with a prequel titled The Hunt For Gollum. And we have to ask... why is this movie getting made? Who asked for it?
COMPLETELY WRONG. There is about a 10 page appendix in ROTK regarding the Hunt for Gollum, which is enough material to vaguely warrant a loosely canon movie about it.
There's a Gollum fan film, that was made 15 years ago and was until today, available on youtube to watch for free. Guess what? WB hit this fan made, non commercial movie, with a copyright strike today and youtube took it down. UPDATE: After people protesting they took back the copyright claim, the fanmade movie is back.
@@fishjones4618that’s something I’d actually support. We can make it an isekai, where wormtongue gets transported to our modern day real life. He works his way up the corporate ladder. I’d watch that.
Pippin: What about Hunt for Gollum? Aragorn: You already had it. One existed in 2009. Pippin: We had one, yes. What about another Hunt for Gollum? Aragorn: 🤨 🍎
It seems to me the story of Aragorn would have been way better. Dude was like 90 years old by LotR. Gollum's story was literally already told... kills his bud, eats babies, exiled to the cave, Bilbo finds the ring, Gollum searches for it, gets captured by Mordor, tortured, gives up the name Baggins. Let go, then later he tracks down the fellowship... then has a nice lunch with Frodo and Sam, then does a backflip into a volcano.
Absolutely, plus there's so many other stories that could be good. Maybe a show about the Haradrim and why they hated Gonder etc. Tons of other unexplored areas.
So they're going to make a film about a single page in the Fellowship of the Ring. They should have made a film about in the book when Gimli promised Legolas that after the ring is destroyed he would take him on a grand tour of the Mines of Moria and explain the entire hidden history of the Dwarfs.
I remember that. That would be sweet. Think back there's probably a million other little asides that would be better than the search for gollum, Serkis' masterful performance aside. Basically the ending of that story is the start of the real story
The problem with any modern adaptation of Tolkiens works, outside of making crap up, is that they will never respect the fact that these books are representative of Celtic, Gaelic, and Anglo Saxon culture, that they were written to represent the peoples of the British Isles, so they will ignore all of that, arropriate our culture, and make the cast "diverse". It it were an original work like Warcraft, Harry Potter, e.t.c then I would have zero issues with a diverse cast in a fantasy setting, but this is Tolkien and his work was written as a replacement for the myths, stories, and legends that were lost in this country due to various invasions, it was written to represent us. But of course, im sure saying that makes me racist to these people.
Tolkien's work has evolved beyond just filling in the gaps missing in classic English myth. At this point, it's its own mythology and acting like it still needs to be rooted IRL is just holding it back.
@@Rotom0479 Holding it back from what? More god-awful "modern audience" adaptations and mediocre writers trying to "fix the stories" by inserting their politics? Or do you mean that trying to keep LOTR tied to its roots is holding it back from being properly milked to death by corporate suits? You'd convince me with that one.
The backstory for Smeagol at the beginning of Return of the King was all the Gollum we needed. and to everyone saying "oh but its Peter Jackson and the screenwriters of LOTR, so it might be good" well they were also the ones who made the Hobbit films and see how bad those turned out.
@@adriandenton6637Literally zero studio interference. Despite what the Jackson fanboys will tell you (ie invent). Everything people dislike is a result of Jackson and his team. 3 films? Guess who pitched that? Jackson. Because two apparently wasn't enough (because he was filming too much shite). Jackson took over from Del Toro as director? Sure... ignoring the fact that Jackson was working WITH Del Toro from the beginning, in the writer's room (ie, Tauriel was conceptualised as a team). Etc, etc.
Gollum is a popular character because of his contrast with Bilbo, and then Frodo. Elevating him to lead character status is the storytelling equivalent of walking off a cliff.
Reminds me of the heady days of Smaug, and Bilbo Baggins. When the world trembled at our trilogy. Only this time, it will tremble at the low box office scores.
Gandalf: "I looked everywhere for the creature gollum, but the enemy found him first" - There, just saved Warner Brothers $150m and the audiance a $15 movie ticket. Seriously though, there is already The Hunt for Gollum fan movie that cost only $5,000 , I dont know why we need a big budget version of a very small side quest.
Studio just copyright struck the fan film. Its gone. I watched it maybe a decade ago. I guaranteed it was better than whatever the studio is going to put out.
@@rhelerinnon5553 Dude that fan movie opened up literally as recommendation in my right hand column for this feed. Opened it and works fine in YT. Should I download it before it gets shut down in my country too?
RU-vid had a pretty decent movie called 'The Hunt for Gollum' at about 40 minutes it was pretty solid. It has since been blocked due copyright grounds.
I think we should give it a chance cause I want to see the scene where he holds to that waterwheel thing with bad physics and his arms go all wonky in IMAX.
JKR single-handedly managad to get a whole generation of children to start reading books -- I have a clear memory of an 8-9 year old girl walking about town with the massive Order of the Phoenix hardback hundreds of pagers long tucked under her arm ; and then they made the movies, and the immediate next generation abandoned the books, abandoned reading, and then abandoned JKR.
Those children that read the books were the offspring of a 1960s and 70s up brining. Gen Z is of a generation in between that. Their parents lacked a cultural identity. The younger Gen Z are completely different with their parents being millennials and will be similar to their parents in some ways but radically different in other ways.
@@Jaggith that first episode sure did warn us though. Hey, Perrin is married and Mat is a dirty thief, surely they wont make any other changes. At least Rand will be cool, right?.....Right?
With the Witch-King as the villain and the forging of the sword that will one day kill him as an Easter egg for the fans…you could make a decent one-season series out of it. If anyone were actually up to making decent series out of such things.
Between werewolves and dragons, you could take virtually any part of Tolkien's legendarium and make a good movie out of it. The problem is the lack of name-value. Gollum is an established and well-known character (probably the best known character, as far as the movies go).
There is a very good little Indie movie called ''The Hunt for Gollum'' available to watch online right now. Looks like Warner Bros are just ripping it.
I suspect it's because so many people said, "The best thing about The Hobbit movies was Gollum." and took that as a cry out for more instead of an insult to those films.
I mean...that quote is pretty dumb. Evil has created a lot of things in the world. Hans Geiger made the Geiger Counter...he was very Pro-Austrian Painter.
The Little Platoon had it perfectly: Look what they did to The Rings of Power, The Wheel of Time and The Witcher - don't let those same hacks at Elric or The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. There is no way that they could produce anything worthwhile with a protagonist as complex as either of those.
I know EXACTLY why this is the story they chose to do! In the books Aragorn describes his hunt for Gollum as taking him "far to the south where the stars are strange" meaning the southern hemisphere, namely Harad. Harad was more or less Tolkien's equivalent to Africa. They are doing this story so they can show middle earth as diverse...
Fortunately, they don't have the rights. I wouldn't trust anyone to adapt Beren and Luthien, not even Jackson. That tale is sacred ground and should be left on the page.
I agree with Robert… we need New Stories With the untapped stories around the world it’s almost immeasurable, but no one in Hollywood is game enough for fresh new/old stories that haven’t been seen on screen.
There's a nice parallel here - in the Silmarillion Morgoth could not make new life, only corrupt existing life forms into a mockery of what exists. Disney-Lucasfilm is basically Morgoth
We know Gollum's story. What's the mystery? Gollum is a great side character. He works well in this role in the Shadow of Mordor video game, too. Jack Sparrow is a great side character in Pirates of the Caribbean. It doesn't work when you take a character like that and make them the central focus. You just end up with Dead Men Tell No Tales.
side character? he is the most essential character. without gollum, frodo would have never given up the ring. you have no understanding of the story clearly
@@baokachi9767 Frodo didn't give up the ring. Gollum is essential to the destruction of the ring, but he's barely even in the first film, so much so that he wasn't even cast at the time of filming. He is a shapeshifter, who joins the main characters, appearing as both ally and enemy and we don't know which. You didn't even make your point without referring to a main character when commenting about Gollum. You are the one with no understanding of the story.
How are they not making a young Aragorn movie. Literally fought alongside both Theoden and Denethor's fathers for years. Also travelled to Harad. So much potential there.
The craziest thing is if wb wanted to make new films based on characters in lotr, literally ANY other character would be better. Elrond - no one's favorite character but in his thousands of years lifespan had experienced and traveled so much and fought in so many epic battles. Or Glorfindel, Theoden, Arwen, Saruman, literally anyone would be better movie.
John Wick worked because the movies had a budget that meant it didn't have to make a billion dollars. It was a movie made for its niche with a budget that matched. The Lord of the Rings trilogy found mass appeal but the Hobbit didn't. This movie will most likely appeal to a smaller set of people but most likely will be budgeted like everyone wants it. And a good number of Tolkien fans don't even want it at this point.
The Hobbit was very successful financially it just did not have the love of lord of the rings but with the current sad state of cinema we may start to look back at them different.
While I agree that three films was overkill, I still disagree with the assessment that The Hobbit should have been adapted into a single film. One of the first things people seem to forget is that The Hobbit was written as a children's book, which means a lot more happens on far fewer pages, with Tolkien spending way less time describing the environments etc. than he does in The Lord of the Rings. Secondly, people forget the similarities between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings in terms of plot beats. Both stories start with a party in the Shire, a hobbit being whisked on an adventure, getting into trouble prior to getting some reprieve in Rivendell, trying to cross over the Misty Mountains, being forced to navigate under the mountains instead, escaping orcs, winding up with the elves in a forest realm, making their way down a river, ... That's the end of The Fellowship of the Ring, both for the book AND the film. The Hobbit follows all those beats, but continues on from there. The Dwarves travel to Esgaroth, from there to Erebor, Bilbo encounters Smaug, Smaug dies, the Battle of the Five Armies ensues, and Bilbo makes his way home. Including what are basically all the plot beats of Fellowship and all of the above in one single film just wouldn't be feasible. Moreover, in certain respects, The Hobbit films HAD to delve deeper than the book. In the book, Gandalf wanders off every now and then, basically whenever having a wizard around would have been too convenient for the plot. While this works for a children's book, Tolkien later (retroactively) explained these disappearances in the Appendices to The Lord of the Rings, to tie both books together into an overall narrative. Including this in an adaptation of The Hobbit, intended to tie into The Lord of the Rings trilogy was unavoidable. So while I fully agree they should never have turned The Hobbit into a trilogy, I cannot agree that one book equals one film in this case. They should have stuck with two films, as was the original plan.
I remember avoiding the Hobbit movies, not because of it being a trilogy, but because of the romance between the elf and the dwarf which was not in Tolkien's books. My mother encouraged me to watch the movies anyway, saying if I could get over that, the movies were enjoyable. One thing I really enjoyed about the movies was Thorin's madness, or dragon-sickness. Tolkien's dragons are always greedy, lying on vast treasures, never having any appreciation or love for any bit of it, but only knowing its market value. When I re-read the book, I focused on the idea of dragon-sickness when I got to that part. Tolkien does talk about it, but I think sometimes ideas are lost somewhat in translation----as they say, America and Britain, two countries divided by a common language.
Funny how many times nerdrotic admits he still watches the hobbit films once a year as a guilty pleasure. I don't think they match 1-3, but i still enjoy a lot of them. As was said, Smaug was well done. Idc i liked seeing legolas Thorin losing his mind, Bilbo getting the ring. They do have issues, but they're watchable and let's be honest, none of them did bad at the box office and they have plenty of positive reviews
2 hobbit films + 1 Gandalf film was a great idea, wish they didn't pitch it. At the end of the day, the book is still 10 hour read and we all know that even normal sized books like that always struggle to fit in 120 minutes, short stories are the only ones that comfortably adapt well to the silver screen. Amazing opportunity to flesh out on the dwarfs characters too
The problem with The Hobbit is that they had no sense of danger. The Dwarves could fall down massive hills and cliffs with barely a scratch. It felt like there were no stakes.
@@RambleOn07 Darth Jar Jar? That seems more like a troll film then anything else, but I guess it will make money. After all might explain how that character that was a goofy character yet always some how pulled imposible stuff off.
R. A. Salvatore's Dark Elf books would be awesome fantasy to adapt to the screen. No idea why no one's done that. Those books have been around for decades.
“Where are the Tolkeins of today?” He was the product of a world war. We have not experienced pain on that scale in 80 years. Hard times produce epic pieces of art. That’s the only way
George RR Martin wishes he was Tolkien. Though to be fair, he also wishes he was Brandon Sanderson, Brent Weeks and any number of other fantasy authors.
I mean, sure it's only two pages and it's mostly Aragorn describing how bad Gollum smells... but HOW did Gollum get to be that smelly, huh? I'm sure we can milk at least a couple movies exploring that!
It's literally the Snowpiercer problem: Either live a while as a hero realize when to stop, because if you're not careful enough you might live long enough to see yourself becoming the villain. It might very well happen to PJ, Fran and Philippa. And with a setting around the hunt for Gollum, which is literally only mentioned by Gandalf at Elrond's council in like 3-5 pages if even, this is probably bound to be a clusterf*ck.
I'm still amazed that Amazon managed to make the writing/story for SHADOW OF WAR look good by comparison. (Don't get me wrong those games were fun but well written they were not.)
I'd rather have nothing. 0 faith in any studio or producer. Sure, the LOTR trilogy was awesome but then we got Th Hobbit from PJ. And no, I'm not giving it a pass because "Rings of Power + Prejudice" was utter trash! (Sorry to all trash out there! I know it's not fair to compare you to it!)
@@sameehkins5957 how the fuck do you know? Tom shouldn’t be expanded upon. He is mysterious and cool and should stay like that. You really think they would be able to give a satisfying answer to actually what he is and why he is when studios couldn’t even get the forging of the rings correctly? It’s like trying to explain jokers origin, it makes the character less interesting and compelling.
Original stories in our time that deserve cinematic efforts; Galaxy's Edge series by Anspach/Cole, the Black Company by Glen Cook, Sandman Slim series by Kadrey, and on and on and on and on
There simply are none to be made that are of worth. Fantasy as a genre is junk. Beyond Tolkien and GRR Martin the standards are very low and trashy. They all are dark lords and kitchen boys who become king or worse again some story of degeneracy.
As far as a great trilogy that was shelved would be the War of the Lance (Dragonlance). There are many great stories that writers have come out with since Tolkien, but the IPs get bought up and then sat on... it is really sad.
[UK] Oh wow! Incarnations of Immortality and The Chronicles Thomas Covenant books - long time since I've heard those mentioned. In particular I remember reading the 'Chronicles' while on Army exercises (US: 'manoeuvres'). No need for a bookmark while living in a muddy hole in the ground - it was always easy to see where I was by the different (dirty) colour of the pages I'd handled.
I'd love to see a good film/TV version of the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, even if they have to rewrite a certain scene early in the first book. I'm very much not holding my breath, though. I just don't think it's the sort of story your average audience wants to watch.
They literally could have done a movie based on the Appendices if they want to milk this franchise: it would be almost impossible but at least you have something to go off (plus it could compete directly with Amazon). But no, it has to be the f-ing hunt for Gollum that is 1 paragraph long 🤡.
Except nobody but hardcore fans have read the appendices, and frankly, nobody else wants to. We want characters we're familiar with and Gollum is one of them
@@Joshua_Griffin But by that point, they dumbed them down enough for normies like me to enjoy them. Now that we have characters we know from the films, we only want characters from the films now.
I can think of one potential mega-blockbuster series of films off the top of my head. If done right, it would make billions. Great adaptations of the Sprawl series by William Gibson: Neuromancer, Burning Chrome, Count Zero, Mona Lisa Overdrive. They are part of the core of novels that kick-started the modern Cyberpunk genre.
There still plenty of older series of books that could use a good movie/tv adaptation. Some that come to mind: Fantasy - Magician, The Wizards and the Warriors, Pawn of Prophecy,. Scifi - Saga of the Seven Suns, Polity, Old Mans War, Mars Trilogy, Dragonriders of Pern, Amtrac Wars, Eon, Rendezvous With Rama, any of Peter F Hamiltons stories, to name a few.
Tolkien’s? There is none as western culture is at an all time low in the modern world (enlightenment period). There is no creativity only follow the leader.
No, please no. The most bizarre part besides this shared custody of Lord of the Rings between Warner and Amazon is that there are several ages! Several characters! Several stories that deserved to be adapted, really great material! And making a Gollum movie, it's the equivalent of having all the Justice League characters that can be chosen, and you choose Jimmy Olsen as your protagonist.
@@Art-is-craft You know literally nothing about Tolkien. As far as he was concerned those were merely side stories compared to what he considered to be his true work, which is what would become The Silmarillion.
Larry Niven’s Ringworld series, Moorcock’s Elric or Corum or Runestaff series, Fritz Leiber’s Fafrhd & the Grey Mouser series… the options for awesome IP’s are endless!
It's such bizzare take away studio execs have gotten. They know Gollum is iconic, but they're conflating that with a desire to see more of him. We don't, the ammount we did see of him in the original trilogy was enough. Like I said, bizarre.
The issue is not about hardcore movie buffs and what they like. The issue is that people are not interested in cinema which is not like any other industry out there. It is a weird fusion of studios, theatres and public trends that are all out of alignment.
Some misconceptions here. The idea of making Hobbit movies from 2 films to 3 films was entirely Jackson's idea. Jackson said in an (Exeter College) video interview (which you can search up) that he had to fly over the studio execs to persuade them to make it 3 movies. When Del Toro was in charge, it was always meant to be 2 movies. When Jackson took over it was still 2 movies initially, then Jackson got the 'clever' idea of making it 3 movies mid way through production. Also, another flaw of Hobbit movies that people blame on the studio is the love triangle. This is actually Phillipa Boyens fault (one of the writers of Hobbit and LoTR movies). Phillipa Boyens was the reason why there is a love triangle in the Hobbit. She said "we" wanted Legolas to be heart broken in a Dwarf related love triangle because then it would give him reason to hate Gimli in LOTR (Once again, she says this in an interview). So guys, don't automatically blame things on the studio when its clear that some mistakes were Jackson's fault. You could see inklings of weird directorial choices in LOTR movies that Tolkien would consider an insult (e.g depicting Frodo only as a weakling and showing no other side to him). Luckily most of LOTR movies were good so the flaws werent that obvious. You could see even more signs of Jackson's incompetence in Hobbit movies (by making silly choices as described at the begining of this comment, and also Alfrid - the Jar Jar binks of Hobbit). The Hobbit movies werent that good, so most of the flaws became much more obvious. Sadly people blame the flaws on the studio when a lot of it (not all) was Jackson's and crew's fault.
I was skeptical about this too, but I did a bit of research, and it seems like from various different sources, be it unfinished tales, the books appendices, and flash backs told from Gandalf’s perspective, Gollum’s whole life between Hobbit and Lord of the Rings can be accounted for and I think there is enough to make a film. After he lost the ring to Bilbo, he took about a month to leave the misty mountains as he feared the daylight. But when he finally left, Bilbo was long gone. But he picked up the trail through Mirkwood and into Dale. He only knew a name, but it was in Dale that he managed to find out that Bilbo was from the Shire. He returned through Mirkwood looking for the shire, but since he didn’t know where it was, he turned south towards Mordor instead. Here he encountered Shelob for the first time as he entered Mordor and Cirith Ungol. It was at this time that Gandalf first became suspicious that Gollum had the one ring and so he send as Aragorn to find Gollum. This film is obviously going to take 2 perspectives, one from Gollum and one from Aragon searching for Gollum. So this part of the movie, I’m less sure about. I read about Gollum, not Aragorn, so I don’t know what Aragorn was up to. But hopefully enough to fill out this movie. Maybe we could meet Arwen, or Elrond’s sons, Elledan and Elrohir who were in the LotR books but not the movies. Anyway, Aragorn is too late and Sauron finds Gollum first. Enter scenes of Barad dur being rebuilt, Saurons army being recreated and Gollum being tortured. When Gollum is finally released he escapes Mordor but is finally caught by Aragorn who takes him back to Mirkwood. Here he is interrogated by Gandalf. Also in Mirkwood, we can get what would be the main battle. Because Gollum escapes Mirkwood in the chaos of Sauron’s forces in Dol Guldur attacking Mirkwood. This is one of the front of the War of the Ring which is ignored in the films. So this would be an epic scene I think. Gollum escapes and seeks shelter in the Mines of Moria. This is where he finds the fellowship and realises that the ring is close. And then depending where they want to end this film, they could either end it in Moria with him vowing to get the ring back, or maybe even follow him as he follows the fellowship right up until he comes into contact with Frodo and Sam. But either way, I think there is enough potential there. It could be a good way of intertwining lots of smaller stories. We not only follow Gollum, but we could get the young Aragorn story mixed in which they wanted to make presumably. We could get the war in Mirkwood which would explain why Legolas’ people didn’t appear in the films. We could get a fair bit. So long as they can organically merge these stories, I see no reason why it couldn’t work. Also, this could bring back a lot of old faces as well as introducing some new ones. Like I’ve already said, we could get Gandalf, Aragorn, Arwen and Shelob but also Thranduil, Legolas, Galadriel and maybe even the Witch King. Plus, we could get an introduction to Elrohir and Elladan, maybe Glorfindel, and in what is a real stretch, but one I hope we get, I’d love to see a War in the North film exploring the battles between the Easterlings vs Erebor and Dale. If Gollum does travel to Dale in this film, perhaps they could introduce key players in the War in the north to connect to that story. Maybe Brand or Bard II. There is such a lot of potential I believe. Far more than Rings of Power. Afterall, Tolkien said the second age was not worth talking about. That’s why Rings of Power decided they could do better and write their own stories. But Jackson and Serkis and team chose a seemingly less significant story, but one which Tolkien has actually written a fair amount about. Gollum between stories. Aragorn as a ranger. The war in Mirkwood. Maybe even some background on the fall of Balin in Moria. It’s all possible. All based around the travels of Gollum. I really think this could be a good way to flesh out this world a bit more and I’m here for it. Also bring on War in the North film. I really want to see Dain take on Easterlings. That would be so cool.
They did the same thing with the Hobbit trilogy. They promised that we'd see major parts of the history of Middle Earth in the Silmarillion and the Appendices. Instead we got Azog the Pink and Tauriel.
They did go into a lot more detail in the "Unfinished Tales" book, in the "Hunt for the Ring" chapter around page 356. It describes how he wound up in Moria so that he could pick up Frodo's trail when the company made it past the Watcher in the Water. So they will have about 5 pages to use, instead of just a couple of paragraphs. Granted, that's not much better.
While ROP was an intentional offense to Tolkien, this project might be good with the right creative direction with the original producers and NLC involved. The background story of Gandalf and Aragon tracking down Gollum in FOTR book always peaked my interest. That’s why the Ringwraiths were able to slip into the Shire unbeknownst to Gandalf and Aragorn. They were protecting the Shire, but then were called away to track down Gollum.
