According to Variety, Marvel executive Victoria Alonso didn't leave the company of her own free will; she was fired. Does this mark the beginning of a change of direction for Marvel, or was Alonso simply the fall guy?
This is true of ALL Leftists... - They are activists first & actors last. - They are activists first & journalists last. - They are activists first & teachers last. And I could go on & on.
Movies Produced by Victoria Alonso 1. Iron Man 2. Iron Man 2 3. Thor 4. Cap 1 5. The Avengers 6 Iron Man 3 7. Thor 2 8. The Winter Soldier 9. GoTG 10. Age of Ultron ..... Basically every MCU movie, so yea, she was a producer and if you liked any of the MCU movies, she was a pretty good one at that
honestly hearing her talking kinda explains why all recent Disney movies are so bad. regardless of your political view, if you work in the entertainment industry, the main skill you should generally focus is... entertain.she sounded more like a politician at her campaign than an entertainer. like, calm down, you are here to make movies about superheroes, not create a revolution.
Your mistake (and the mistake of Critical Drinker et al) is thinking that they are espousing these beliefs in a vacuum of Disney corporate executive decision making. They are not. It is no mistake that this happens across various Disney IPs, because it all flows down from the top. They are trying to make all Disney owned IPs into Disney channel esque content for girls to watch and want to watch - only clearly that model does not fit a great many of the IPs that they now own. They are quite literally desperately attempting to squash a large square peg into a small round hole over and over again. At some point they will catch on, sell off the IPs that don't fit this inane model and restructure the company to fit and we will see Hollywood reconfigure itself to suit. Hopefully with an 80s esque era of "throw random s**t at the wall till it sticks" type of film making.
@@mnomadvfx yeah but they suck even at making Disney channel-esque stuff for girls. They don't even reach that standard. But yeah, we are probably going to see a return to cheaper movies but with more quality behind it. Like, we get it: you can animate one hour of aliens and robots fighting in a CGI battlefield, can you now make a good movie out of it?
Hollywood is ready for another Christopher Vogler type memo that reminds everyone what makes classic stories classic, and in contrast why what they’re doing now doesn’t work. Hint: it’s not the audience’s fault
The difference being that Activision owns studios. VFX production studios just work for Hollywood by contract. The problem is that those contract prices are fixed and when the workload shifts mid task the studios are not compensated for these changes requiring more time to finish the work. Ie the studios have to pay more artist wages per contract and therefore they make less profit - in fact many studios simply go bankrupt because Hollywood film production companies change their minds on VFX shots again and again and again because there is so little planning for VFX done during the preproduction phase.
Disney's real problem at this point is that they can't fire anybody without producing dozens of clickbait headlines, and there are a lot of people that need firing.
If your floor has had water damage, and the wood has gone spungy and mushroom infested, then you dont just replace 1 floor board, you replace the entire floor, this one person getting fired wont do a damn thing.
I'm friends with a VFX supervisor very high in the industry who's worked on some Marvel and he says the VFX management is incompetent. Keeping costs down and hitting tight timeline is the only mandate - how is that done? Relying on bargain CGI for shots that in the 1990s and 2000s would have looked much better done in practical with a bit of CGI mixed in. An over-reliance on poorly skilled CGI studios and overuse of CGI in general means movies look worse now than 30 years ago.
They dont care. They know that any criticism of their shit movie will be mentally gymnast as "muh angry white incels" as long as the movie has all the leftist talking point.
So Marvel's sense of ethics doesn't extend to paying people for work they do? Okay, if ever there was a premise to dismiss any of their so-called "activism" and attempts at moralising, there it lies.
Their way of thinking is that we will eventually bow down to the message how ever long that will take, where they are now having a problem is that the new Marvel films are losing more and more money at box office.
Sounds like the Martingale gambling strategy. Theoretically, if you put more and more money on the table, you'll win eventually and make it all back, plus profit. In reality... you run out of money.
One thing I'm fully expecting to happen is that they'll probably just wrap up the Kang story in Loki and then move on to using another villain for the the Avengers to fight.
@@CleverGirlAAH Well the release of Loki Season 2 has been pushed back, even though enough of it is complete to show clips of it at D23 and Disney+ promos. I feel like they are probably reshooting the back half of the season to change Kang's fate.
Honestly everything about the MCU post End Game is just disappointing they haven't given us anything worth being attached too so far it seems centred around Kang but the fact that they are only know starting to set up a story after essentially wasting an entire phase doesn't give me hope
9:38 I work in a warehouse where right now we're blasting out a quality initiative to get rework under control. I can't imagine the cost of rework with hundreds of VFX artists, editors, etc that it takes to "fix" Marvel movies. Measure twice, cut once holds true regardless of your field.
There is news reporting since earlier today, Victoria Alonso was fired due to heavy influence in Argentina-1985 film. She not only was a producer, she promoted it heavily, while she was supposed to be heading a bunch of VFX in movies, like Ant-Man. Disney then reportedly warned her, she was in violation of her contract. I'm sure there's other things, but you need a contractual breach to actually fire someone, who has a probably very lengthy million dollar contract with Disney and Marvel.
"Marvel couldn't make up their minds about what they wanted the FX to look like" This also explains why it all starts to look the same after a while. If you want to do it fast, you copy as much as possible, and you fall back on what worked before.
Ridley Scott: "Hold my camera....." Directors wanting to do the same shot over and over again during filming to get the "perfect shot" isn't new. Unless you mean copying the same shot again and again in the same film and across different films of the same franchise?
"It sets up Dare Devil" And that right there is the issue with what the MCU became. It was no longer about the quality of the current movie/show, but all about introducing the new characters etc. And then you add on the woke stuff, and the lower quality of the stuff...
To be fair, most marvel movies were not great even in Phase 1. Light, fun, forgettable summer popcorn movies, with a handful that rose above the generally bland pack.
@@JRRob3wn Thor 1 is the only really forgettable film in Phase 1. That's the same phase that gave us The first Avengers, Iron Man 1, the best Hulk film and the first Cap film.....
It's ironic. Back in the 80's and 90's, they did storylines to show how it ISN'T the suit, but the person in it. We had: John Walker as Captain America Azrael as Batman The Reign of the Supermen Artemis as Wonder Woman
Don't forget Eric Masterson aka Thunderstrike, the temporary Thor replacement. Though I think in all of these cases it was less about showing how only the suit was important (most of these replacements had different costumes anyways, especially Azrael), and more about trying to refresh the franchise
Of the character swaps done in the comics I can think of three that have worked in the past few decades: the various Robins, Barry Allen to Wally West and Hank Pym to Scott Lang.
To quote the director John Badham (Saturday Night Fever, Dracula, Blue Thunder, Wargames, Short Circuit, Stakeout) "Plan your shoot and shoot your plan."
"Superheroes aren't the characters, they're suits". That's such a stupid fucking thing to say. Didn't Iron Man say "if you're nobody without this suit, then you shouldn't have it"??? That completely goes against what they said in pre-endgame BETTER phases. How can you 180° your entire brand so much, I don't understand... How did Feige allow this to happen?
He didn't "allow" it; it's always been the plan. The earlier phases were to lay the groundwork for establishing derivatives and moving the characters away from what would give the creators' estates due royalties. The 'All-New Marvel' era of comics (from which the later film phases draw upon) has pretty much been transparent about wanting to distance itself from what came before, even as it hopes to benefit from facsimile. 'All-New Marvel' : it's the Marvel you know, but not as you know it.
@@troymcclure681 It's much cheaper for Disney (and better for their agendae [plural]) to fully own the tokenized/derivative versions of established characters, than it is to pay royalties or contest ownership, or permissions, with the estates of long-dead creators who created the original characters and origin stories. E.g: Miles Morales allows them to keep the Spider-Man trademark without having to pay out to the Ditko estate for Steve Ditko's co-creative duties on Peter Parker and the associated lore. Instead they can fashion a 'passing of the torch' and market it as a diversity push (it may well be about that, but it's not *only* about that).
These redoing and re shooting thing ,is something I know very well because I used to work on an advertisement CG studio . And that happens when people that know NOTHING of the process is directing you . CG was basically invented to make things easier to these people , and not to make a better product .
And don't forget we're talking about entire _movies_ here. Who knows how much time and resources they have wasted because of some last-minute rewrites.
What happened to the behind the scenes "story group", the people ( such as Brian Bendis) who came over from the comics to keep the continuity of writing and story together through phases 1-3.Were they disposed of after Endgame, because after the VFX issue the lack of cohesion during phase 4 might have caused as much trouble as "the message"( insert Drinker's voice)
@@Ytaker Thank you, any more info about his self censoring? Or was it mutual with a big pile of cash? It explains a lot. Infinity War was and still is in my book the official ending of the MCU.
They don’t care about profits, they care about brainwashing kids and teens with their Rainbow Gestapo propaganda. It’s all about destroying the future and turning humanity into bugmen slaves for the elite.
The company that is about making money is finally seeing how little “woke” people there actually are that spend money on their product compared to the normal fans
That's the part I never understood. Unless these studios arrogantly assumed the normies would keep paying to see these movies and shows after they were infected with woke crap(which they clearly haven't), they were essentially gearing their product towards a nonexistent audience. The woke crowd is made up of freaks on social media and in college who have little disposable income and wine moms in upper class suburbia who don't watch this stuff to begin with.
That's really the problem though. Disney is in a tough position where they need to weed out the activists to make money again, but doing so would result in a PR shitstorm. They don't have a lot of options, and I have no sympathy for them. They cultivated the woke atmosphere in their studios, and this is what they get.
What Nerdrotic said about "they make the comics match the movies" is part of the reason I so despise the MCU now. Yes, it happened in the past with the Sam Raimi Spidey films (that stupid convoluted "The Other" event that had the sole purpose of giving Comic Spidey organic webshooters like in the films), but it feels so much more egregious nowadays. Like, I now hate Black Nick Fury because of how Marvel got rid of the original in order to introduce a version of him into the mainline Marvel comics, and then put him in charge of SHIELD despite this version of him being far less competent and experienced compared to the OG Fury or the MCU one. And wasn't there some thing about how the Eternals "suddenly revealed" that every few centuries they can actually reconfigure themselves, even adopting new sexes and skin colours, in a blatant attempt to explain why the Comics Eternals, who've had a fairly consistent look for years, are now race- and/or gender-swapped?
I agree with ya except the black nick fury. Black nick fury started in the ultimate universe and his design was based off Sam Jackson. That’s why it was a great fan fan moment in iron man to see Sam Jackson play him. But I’m sad we don’t get original nick fury design anymore as well. Just wanted to be fair that black nick fury didn’t originate from the msheu
I agree with everything except Spidey making webbing organically. That was a great change. I’m a big Spidey fan and it made way more sense for him to get natural webbing, seeing as he was gaining strength, speed, senses, wall crawling, etc. from the bite, than to have a low income high school kid somehow make a super-tech in his aunt & uncles basement with a ready supply of “web juice”. The “genius teen makes super-tech in the basement” is actually a big stupid trope problem that people are only realizing now after RiRi Williams, and Cassie in Ant Man made it so silly. Peter gains countless powers from the spider-bite, webbing should be one of them, it’s a more organic and sensible narrative.
@@amorymckeever2665 Peter David took that organic webbing idea in 1992 and it became part of his creation, Spider-man 2099, a very underrated comic book. The symbiote costume's organic webbing appeared as far back as 1983.
This changes nothing. Disney deserves to be given No Quarter. The community they have cultivated is the cheapest, least interested group of fans ever. I blame "Big Bang Theory".
1:45 the amount of farewell cards i have had to sign at work over the years, i wish i had those skills, you all just came up with perfect farewell, best luck on future endeavours phrases lol.
Nah they’ll just replace her with a random fat black lesbian woman then applaud her when she ruins the company even more. They’re leftists aka mentally handicapped.
I worry we're still getting these companies bailed out. While SVB is not getting bailed out directly, their investors (depositors?) are instead. Until the government finally says "no one is too big to fail," everything we've seen over the last 15 years will contine.
"Marvel doesn't figure out stuff before hand". Iron Man was ad lib and was a hit. That's because it was Favreau's Swingers with RDJ replacing Vince Vaughn. But they can't replicate lightning in a bottle.
Marvel “we encourage our writers to not read the source material so they aren’t constrained in the stories they tell” Also Marvel: *makes the same movie for 8 years straight.
Like I said last night. The first film I ever saw in a cinema was Star Wars. My mum took me to see it when I was like five or something. That WAS cinema to me. The last film I ever saw in an actual cinema was The Force Awakens. I had never once walked out of a cinema before but when they killed off Han like a female dog. I thought about it for a bit and just walked out. I never went back into a cinema since. That has a kind of poetry to it I think. Star Wars literally WAS the alpha and omega to me. I nearly went to see Dune but the bird I asked to go blew me out so I was like. Pfffft you know what? Nah. It's going to take something pretty special to get me in one again.
Actually they had withnail and i on in my local cinema last sepember, i ended up missing it so that nearly got me back in a cinema actually but that is my favorite film hands down. I WAS gonna go though I have to say. Its a seaside town where i live so they still have afternoon matinees and things for the retired community here. I guess Im lucky in a way. These places are dying out. There is one fundamental truth to our realities IMO. That being that everything changes. Without exception.
"I nearly went to see Dune but the bird I asked to go blew me out so I was like. Pfffft you know what? Nah" You missed nothing in my opinion. It looks pretty nice and Chalamet LOOKS the part and can fight well, but he doesn't act the part of Paul well at all, and constantly sounds like he is half drunk from the way he slurs many of his lines. Beyond that the story of Dune was gutted like a tandoori fish to use a Deadpool/Derpinder quote. The characters could mostly have random names because their personalities are basically interchangeable with no explanation of who is who, what they do and why they do things. The best way I can describe it is like the MCU version of Dune, in the most uncomplimentary way - the worst, most hollowed out expression of the story with zero character depth and everything that made it a standout sci fi property erased entirely. The funniest part was the feminist pandering gender swap of Liet/Kynes in a story with the most strong female characters in pretty much any story I have ever read - made all the worse by the fact that she also had no character depth, so the pandering tokenism is blatantly obvious, almost like Denis Villeneuve is giving a big f**k you to Warnes Bros and/or the audience. To say I was disappointed with this Dune adaptation after waiting 2 decades to see it is a giant understatement. Even the laughably underfunded SyFy miniseries from 2000 managed to tell the story better, and in less time as well. I can only hope that after Hollywood wakes from this modern politically corrupted nightmare that we will get a well funded miniseries of Dune with modern VFX and good actors - is it really so much to ask guys??!!
Could it be possible that they wanted to get rid of her now with the intention of replacing her with someone as a successor to Feige? So in the future they can get rid of Feige.
DO NOT PAY ONE PENNY TO SEE THE MARVELS!! Not one damn penny, not even a hate view. If you have to watch it to criticize it, make sure you do it for free.
Hey, Drinker, could you please leave the streams up unlisted instead of private until you reupload them? Sometimes people come in late to a stream and start watching only for it to cut off mid-watch.
I wonder how much Disney’s CGI woes have to do with an overindulged director making them do all the effects for a 9 hour Smurf movie before he edits out 2/3 of it?
I remember when there were rumours of Kathleen Kennedy being chewed up in a meeting because Star Wars wasn't as financially successful as Marvel. I guess it is now.
That's the point, they've exhausted that card now and the money has dried up. They can't go any further to the left, they know the game is up and no amount of force feeding works anymore. It's the force feeding bit they dragged out for too long and now they are in a position where the public actively hate them for it. Being the out of touch leftists that they are they don't know when to take the L and retreat so they've basically hung about and stunk the place out so bad not even a mask will help. This is the quintessential storyline for the destruction the leftists have caused throught society. This is how it ends for them every time, it's the same in politics and even Sport, they destroy EVERYTHING they touch.
When money has completely run dry they should have no other choice but to deeply reconsider the relentless crap they've been producing for the past few years. Else they'll simply go bankrupt.
@@AGuyCalledHarry He sometimes forgets, to set it to private, sometimes doesn't, unfortunately, this was one of the times he didn't forget so we'll just have to wait :(
If they (Disney and Marvel) came and and apologized to all the fans they drove away with their agenda pushing i would 100% give them another shot. I haven’t watched any marvel movies since endgame. I tried the Disney plus shows and they all sucked. I quit after Hawkeye, that show ruined the kingpin. Falcon and winter soldier had Bucky lose a fight to a 12 year old girl with no fight training. It all was garbage.
@@apolloisnotashirt you know what, I did try Moon Knight. It’s not that I didn’t like it I was just not engaged. I wasn’t familiar enough with that character and just found myself zoning out and doing other things when I tried watching it. I maybe watched 3 episodes. I won’t say anything bad about that one, just maybe not for me. I didn’t find the character interesting.
@@ryanalexander984 And you know what? THATS FINE everyone can watch whatever they want, if it really doesnt do it for you feel free to get off. Especially everything Marvel's made these past years.
Anyone else remember Iron Man 2? It's generally remembered as a bit of a mixed bag from when the MCU was still working out what the hell it was doing. One of the biggest, valid criticisms is that the story and new villain were massively underserved because so much of the film's runtime was wasted on "setting up other things for later films" and cramming in too many extra characters. Now, you'd think Marvel had learned that lesson and stuck with it throughout Phases 2 and largely 3. Tell as good a story as you can with every instalment and keep your seed-planting for other things to a minimum outside of credits scenes and meaningful guest appearances (e.g. Black Panther and Spider-Man in Civil War). And then they kinda forgot that lesson. This is why the onset of the D+ shows has been such a damaging move. Between Loki, WandaVision, No Way Home, Eternals, MOM, Ant-Man, Ms Marvel etc. there's so much interconnectivity and set-up and universe-threatening stakes going on all over the place, that it's incoherent at worst and overbearingly convoluted at best, and their stories are vanishing behind a wall of teases, Easter-eggs, and bizarre through-lines. Back to basics, Marvel. You've got F4 and X-Men. Best foot forward with those teams and walk again before you try to run.
There is no saving Hollyweird. They were corrupted since as far back as the black and white tv/movie days. It needs to be torn down. And if that means no more tv shows and movies and we have indie tv shows and movies instead then so be it.
Emma Thomas has produced good shit though. Same with Kathleen Kennedy. And Shonda Rhimes is hit and miss, but she can still put out good stuff. There's nothing inherently wrong with female producers.
I know there've good female producers over the years. There've been articles about different ones. I don't remember any names, but I don't remember male producers, either. The creative arts are one field in which someone with no talent can be the boss of people with real talent. This isn't unique to the arts. You see it all the time in different fields. Guy doesn't cut it in a specialty, so he takes classes in business, health, or education administration, and aims for a job as boss of people who can actually do what he failed at.
Kevin feign wanted to leave after endgame and Disney forced him to stay because China said they wouldn't let marvel movies in their country with him. Not sure how they kept him, but if I was forced to stay at a company I'd let the quality go to hell too. There's an article every year about him quitting. He wants out.
These movie crazes only last so long - just like the Western. The Western took Hollywood by storm, movies, TV, books, toys etc…until it almost completely died out. We’re just about there with super hero movies and I think a lot of studios are going to lose a lot of money when more films start to flop like Ant Man and Shazam…this are just the beginning of the end.
As happened with the western, the downfall and 'audience fatigue' comes when the trending genre leads to a quantity over quality approach. Just like the western the super hero genre will go on, carried forward by people who realize the audience for these things never left, they just want well-made films. Few westerns continue to come out and most of them are really good, and also explore different formulas within the western genre.
Kevin Feige needs to recognize he's on the Titanic and Wokeness is the iceberg. BTW, the ship already hit the iceberg a few years ago. It all began with Captain Marvel. Wasn't so bad at first, but there the seeds were sown.
To be honest, Disney has been a huge part of my childhood. But I'm losing hope and losing hope fast. I can feel myself giving less of a turd every day. I feel that they need to sell off Starwars and Marvel to those that can do a better job. And quit with their activist style live action IP's. They are clearly unable to tell a good story any more.
vision as an adult that liked Disney when we were kids is frustrating at least, we clearly see they want to format people into being first in adration of them then being totally brainless and fitting into one unique model of stupid sheep
Excellent discussion. Thanks a bunch! 😊 Let me try to help: This from CHATGPT: Who writes about the evolutionary psychology of stories? There are many researchers and authors who write about the evolutionary psychology of stories. Some notable figures in this field include: David Sloan Wilson - an American biologist and author who has written extensively on the role of stories in human evolution. Jonathan Gottschall - an American author and professor who has written several books on the evolutionary psychology of storytelling. Steven Pinker - a Canadian-American cognitive psychologist and author who has written about the evolution of language and the role of storytelling in human cognition. Joseph Carroll - an American literary scholar who has written extensively on the evolutionary psychology of literature and the role of stories in human culture. Lisa Zunshine - an American literary scholar who has written about the cognitive and evolutionary basis of literary experience and the role of stories in shaping human behavior. These are just a few of the many researchers and authors who have explored the evolutionary psychology of stories.
The subject of this video should be replaced with someone with a background in this field, which I gather is also called "cognitive literary theory" on their resume. She had a problem with biologically ingrained responses to stories that show through clearly when you look at the masses as opposed to the exceptions. If the goal is money through popularity, it's best to appeal to the general audience, which are interested by certain things for someone complicated but actually pretty easily understandable reasons having to do with how the human psychology evolved not for no good reason. So put such people in charge of your studio and your problem will be solved.
I've said it before, but when this is all over, I Need a "house of cards"-esque TV show about all the shit going down at Disney. And Kevin Spacey can play Bob Iger. The role he was born for.
4:32 Kicking the can down the road on an issue can help if it allows you to focus your efforts on solving a separate issue to then return to the first with better focus and more resources. In this case, as losing resources is the issue, Disney is just setting themselves up for an even greater, existential reckoning later, when it comes down to which of the big players gets to keep their seat
Marvel's never going to get better, no matter how many people they lay off. As long as they adopt this pro progressive mindset of spreading the message in sacrifice of quality media, then nothing is ever going to change. Firing Alonso is just plugging one hole in an already sinking ship.
Profit is meaningless to these people, they’ll always have a blank check to keep making Rainbow Gestapo propaganda. The endgame is to turn all the kids and teens into leftist extremes so they’ll be good little bugmen bootlickers for the government.
Listen to Gary from Nerdrotic. He gets it. Chapek was never in charge, was never going to unwoke Disney, he was inept and the fall guy for Iger who neve left. Victoria is only one part of the cancer inside of Disney and her leaving doesn't change much. Iger and Kevin Feige approved all this woke crap. The fish rots from the head.
