Dual Angle Ball Layouts Explained 

Thank you!

Thanks so much for the feedback!!!

Danny, I never want to be the cause of problems...I only want to grow the sport. My recommendation "sight unseen" is always go to a certified pro shop operator. IBPSIA, Kegal and a few more offer classes and I think certification. I am not an IBPSIA member however.

Thanks so much for the comment!!! Hope it helps!

adam parker - Thank you for your question. This is tough since I don’t know any of your numbers such as rev rate, avg ball speed, PAP, etc... I will say this, the cover is the most important part of any balls reaction accounting for maybe 50-60% (of total ball reaction), then the core is the next most important part and I would guess that’s about 20-30% (of total reaction) finally the way you drill it is something like 10-20%. I would take it back to your pro shop professional and ask if they can change the surface. Your other option is take it to a a different certified Pro Shop operator and get their opinion based on your unique “numbers” and style. thanks!

Thanks so much for the feedback Ultimat3Gam3r! Much appreciated!!

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Thank you for your comments, much appreciated!!!

Thanks so much for your comment!!! I always say first that your local Pro Shop Professional is your best resource here! I feel there is a lot of Art to drilling and the science will only take you so far. Some people simply like to see the ball shape a certain way (for example keeping it in front of them) and therefore there really isn’t a “correct” drilling, or said another way the “correct” drilling IMO won’t work for them because they “want” something else. Being that you are extremely rev dominate (high rev and very slow speed) this factor is certainly the most important factor in your ball shape and sounds like you know that. My question for you is what drillings have worked for you in the past, what have they done for you, and what are you missing. Drillings will help you move in the direction “of what you are looking for” not get you there. The cover is the most important followed by the kind of core. The drilling will just tweak towards your goal. The environment you are bowling on is also the extremely important..oil pattern, oil volumes, high friction, low friction, friction towards the gutter…lots of friction in the tract etc…. One ball, cover, drilling will not necessarily fit all the environments mentioned above. In my area, I bowl on lots of sport patterns and a low friction surface, my drillings will very greatly if I was on a wood surface bowling a house pattern. So my short answer is the drilling seems good but there is so much more, find a great pro shop you trust and I’m sure they can dial in your equipment for what you face, or will face down the road. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions!!!

@@BkbowlingTips Thank you for your response. In the past (in my youth) I had close to 19 mph ball speed and was a full roller. The only drilling layouts that worked for me were either straight up on the label, or with some finger weight (old school terminology, I know). The balls that worked best for me were the Ebonite Stinger (855 series), Ebonite Clear Werewolf (230 average, but I destroyed two of them in a summer), and the Brunswick Power Groove. Age and injuries have made me reinvent my approach, which dropped my ball speed dramatically. Then (and we can't figure out WHY this happened), once I got the Rose, my track shifted from a full roller to a 14 1/2° tilt. [This change happened on every ball EXCEPT my two Radical Spys, which stayed full roller.] Now due to shoulder stiffness, I am switching down from 15 to 14 lb. (The Rose is 14.5, so I want to go down in weight instead of up when switching to my alternate equipment) My pro shop guy is a friend of my since high school (his dad opened the shop) and he is very good, but more familiar with how I used to throw than how I throw now. I do best when the ball has a long skid with a strong back-end. Based on your description (and others I have seen), it sounds like the 85°x5"x55° layout will give the long skid (as well as the plastic shell) but mellow out the back-end enough to be controllable when the Rose is over-reacting. I was just asking to see if my analysis was correct on this point. We have never drilled any of my equipment "scientifically" before. The layouts were always pretty basic and I have had some duds in the past (mostly when the ball was set to hook too early). I am also looking for ANY advice on other equipment that might be good additions to my arsenal. My biggest issue is dry lanes and/or short oil, but I know there is not much I can do about that with my revs and ball speed. (Plastic can only do so much).

I understand when you say short oil or high friction gives you trouble. I would say Low Diff solids balls will help control the backends. I also feel the Microcell balls from Motiv with surface prep might help too. I like the Yellowjacket taking the surface up to 4K will give you a urethane type look. But with 400 rev rate and 12MPH, getting a ball with plenty of length and then angular backend to control is tough. Keep this in mind, the more Diff the more dynamic the ball will be. If you are seeing too much shape, see if you can get a ball with lower Diff, this might help you zero in on some equipment to help you. Again, drillings will help a ball roll a certain way to a point, but it can’t take the natural tendency of a core/cover away and completely change the roll for all styles. Hope this helps!!! Great questions by the way, love the fact that you are trying to learn and hope I can help you out!!!!

Thanks so much!!!!

Thanks for the compliment!!! Should be interesting with the weight hole rule change next August.

Thanks so much for your comment......Several of the companies have Pro Shop type schools and/or certification type classes. Here is a link to Innovates next school.... innovativebowling.com/Pro-Shop-Schools_c_21.html. I’m sure there more out there and close to where you live. thanks again!!

Travis Kibel - Sorry to hear this but I do know what you are talking about. The IPBSIA and Kegel are two places where I would say their teaching would be "certified".... and something to look for. If you found a shop that is helping you, I know you have down the research and they should help you get the most out of your game! Thanks again for the feedback!!!

Thank you. I try and tell people now to ask their pro shop if they can figure out their PAP, and if they can't, walk out and find a pro shop that can.

Problem is they can only figure out your PAP on a ball that is already drilled. Not very useful if you are trying to figure out how to drill a new ball.

@@toscodav thats the dumbest thing ive read today

Thanks so much!!!

Anthony Gomes - thanks for your question. One of the hardest things to do is making a drilling recommendation for someone “sight unseen”. I highly recommend you go to your local certified pro shop professional to get the best advice for you and your game! For example, I don’t know your PAP, your rev rate, tilt, typical lane conditions you bowl on (and how they break down) along and with your slower speed & lighter weight ball I could easily give you bad advice. Your certified pro shop pro can take all these variables (and more) and really match up your layout, surface and core to give you the best reaction. In general, yes the layout of a 75x4x25 will give you the length and a very fast reaction to the friction (when the ball finds it) and be a hockey stick type shape. However keep this in mind the “sooner” a ball uses energy the “less” angular motion you will get on the back. Your slower ball speed might start the ball up sooner and take away from that “strong angular” reaction you are looking for. Sometimes a 75x5x75 for a slow speed (lower type track) bowler actually turn out to be “more angular” and strong backend reaction that another bowler might not see because of how they throw it. Hope this helps!!!!! Thanks!!!

Thanks for your question. It’s always difficult for me to give drilling advice to someone I haven’t seen throw the bowl, measure their PAP, understand the oil pattern they bowl on etc... I really do suggest working with your pro shop professional to get the best results! With your speed and slow rev my thought is the ball is reacting to the lanes too quickly and using its energy up too fast. I’m thinking to add some polish to the surface of the ball and see if that improves the reaction. If not, drilling something more towards 60x4x25 and see if that helps the ball shape more the way you like. Thanks again!!!!

Definitely access lol

Thanks so much Dan for your feedback!! The short answer here is no, I did not explain how to find the VAL on a blank ball, I only stated the VAL is used to determine the second angle. Didn't want this video to be a "how to" only the basic version of what these numbers mean when people are talking about how it's drilled. On your drilled ball, if you drawl a line from your pin to PAP, and a line from your pin through the CG (or MB for asymmetrical balls) that is your first angle. The VAL..is parallel to your Center line in the grip..so on your drilled ball using a quarter scale...place it so it goes through thumb and middle if your fingers....then keeping that line....parallel over to where your PAP is, drawl a line parallel to Center grip just through the PAP....that is your VAL "vertical Axis Line". The distance between the VAL and the line from pin to PAP is your second angle. This second angle defines how quickly your ball will respond to friction on the back part lane

Very well said, thank you for promoting the best layout system for bowling.

Primal Strength - Thank you for your comment. There really is no way I can give you a good recommendation without knowing the key information discussed in this video along with seeing you actually throw the ball. Items like your unique PAP along with the conditions you compete on, rev rate, ball speed, tilt etc... are just so important in ball layout. I highly recommend you see your pro shop professional to help you get the best out of recent purchase. Thanks again!

Games Jaguar - Thanks so much for your questions. I guess when I created this video my goal was to basically explain what the numbers mean when someone says “I drilled my ball 45X4X70”. Also, if you wanted to drill a ball a certain way say “skid-flip” or have a more rounded shape off the back this video would help you speak to your Pro Shop Professional a little better using this philosophy. I did not do this video with the goal of explaining how to drill or how to layout a ball. You obviously want more and also the “how to” in laying out a bowling ball which is great. I however am not the one. I strongly recommend finding training done by IBPSIA, Kegal, etc... a get that info straight from the best. Thanks again!

John Nerren - Thanks for your question! Short answer here is the balance hole is used to make the ball legal according to USBC static weight rules. Looking at your grip for example, the left side of the ball vs. right side can not be more than 1 once, same top to bottom. So the weight hole is used to take out the weight which exceeds those limits. So you are limited "where the weight hole can be drilled" because it must bring the ball back into USBC static weight specifications. Said another way, if you want a low weight hole and there is "too much" weight at the top of the ball...the ball would not be legal. A certified pro shop operator can help you with this, Thanks!!

Thanks so much for your question!!! As the ball goes down the lane (precession) it goes through basically three stages (that’s the skid, hook, roll many have discussed). When the ball goes from that 2nd stage to the third, the ball is it’s most powerful and we want that to happen near the pins to have the highest carry %. So on an over/under shot, I like lower RG cores & solid covers as they won’t hockey shape when on the dry but will dig into the oil in the middle. High RG balls skid too much and can respond way to fast to the friction giving you that over/under. So now what I do is drill that lower RG ball to help with that shape, does this make sense?

So the drilling angles you have would roll much differently on a low RG solid ball vs. a high RG pearl ball. I would drill the sym ball low RG something with a shorter VAL angle where I would have a wider VAL on the high RG.

So a 65x4x35 might be what you want given and lower RG core with a solid cover. Let me know what you think!!! Thanks again!!!

toscodav - Thank you for your great question. First let me say it’s important to find a certified pro shop operator in your area. You will benefit greatly from the experience and expertise with this. Second, the PAP is the point at which the ball first rotates around when you release it so it is unique to your release and how you do that. It’s true, after you release the ball, the surface, the weight block, the finger holes etc...effect how the ball will continue to roll. The ball is “out of balance” when you release it and the process it goes through down the lane is the ball “getting back into balance”...that the whole skid, hook, roll idea. Things like weight block, ball surface and where you drill the ball effect the “how the ball gets back into balance”. Hope this helps!

Thank you for the insight. I will definitely see a pro

Hi i have the same question... i get that the pap is unique to you but if the first angle is determined by the line between the pin and mass bias or cg and also the pin to pap, where’s the room to adjust the angle? Wouldnt i then be adjusting the angle in such a way that the line no longer goes through from pin to pap?

One more question, if i tilt my release or change how i do my release would it change my pap? Does that mean that i have to redrill my ball once i change my release? Say the tilt is more angular etc? Thanks amd nice video

@@esterchua4475 yes a different hand position would change the location of your pap but that is one way to manipulate ball motion with the same ball.

ray jackson - Thank you for your question! The short answer is "some drillings" will move the track. If the way you throw the ball (tilt, axis rotation etc..) is close to the thumb hole then it could "move" your track to catch it. This is where having an ibpsia certified or Kegel certified etc..pro shop professional is needed. They will be able to help you identify better what is happening specifically for you and help you get the results you are looking for.

Robert Slockbower - Thanks for your question. It is really difficult to make a recommendation without knowing all those unique facts about how you throw the ball. Your PAP, rotation, tilt, speed, condition you are bowling on, etc... I recommend seeking out your local certified pro shop professional so they can help you make the best choice for you. Sight on seen, I would be doing a disservice making a recommendation.

Simply Liza, what I suggest you do is working with your ProShop, find where your PAP is with the wrist guard on vs. where you PAP is without it on. If the PAP is different...this should result in different ball motions. My guess site unseen is your PAP will change..... So if a specific ball motion is wanted, knowing where your PAP is very important.

Thanks for the comment!!!!

Thank you so much for the feedback and glad it helped!!!

Dave Justice - Thanks for your question. Flare is basically the bowling ball rolling over a different part of the bowling ball as it hooks towards the pocket. Since there is conditioning on the lane (lane oil) rolling over “fresh” cover; not where the ball just previously rolled, will allow for more friction to be created and hopefully more “hook”. Creating more or less flare can change how the ball reacts on the lane. Your Pro Shop Professional can help you determine what is best for your game.

Hoa Nguyen - Thank you for your question! Unfortunately I can not tell you which layout is the best for your style and also what is the best layout for the conditions you are competing on. There are just to many unknown factors sight unseen. I really stress in the video to see your local Pro Shop Professional so they can determine your PAP, tilt etc... and then give you options for a ball and drilling to combat those condition.

Scorpion is now 47'....not sure if this is an older version. It really is hard to give you a layout without seeing your ball roll I strongly suggest you speak to a cerified pro shop operator. With that said, you do need the ball to pick up on longer patterns. Something in the 55X4X40 range I would think given info you gave. Your shop operator should be able to help!

Steve: not sure if this will help but i used my storm lock that's drilled 70 x 43/8 x 40 and it seemed to want to roll out just as it entered the pins? thx ps: it was a 44' pattern?

For your specs, I am going to suggest a Radical guru Supreme. I'll give a layout on the storm lock video you are posting in as well.

Doug Kichman - thanks for your question! The best way I know of determining your unique PAP is to throw a shot, find the first oil ring on the ball you just threw, and use that first ring (most shops have a tool) to find your PAP. Anything short of that would be a guess. Thanks!!

So, then we will have to guess since I don't have a currently have a ball due to not bowling for a few years? I hope we guess correctly .. or this will be an expensive oops if we get it wrong...

Doug Kichman - they should be able to put a “basic” drilling on it (or one they have seen much success with other bowlers) if not, you can always plug and change. Thanks again!!

The measurement of your PAP comes from where the holes are drilled.