Echo Fighters: Wasted Potential or Just Right?

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Which Echo Fighters in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate have the potential to get their own roster spot and which characters are perfect for the role? Let's discuss!
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0:00 - Intro
1:18 - Dark Samus
3:15 - Daisy
4:54 - Lucina/Chrom (The Fire Emblem Mess)
6:41 - Dark Pit
8:09 - Richter
9:57 - Ken
11:20 - Last Thoughts
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14 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 247

@redsplat6606 3 года назад

This is my issue: they could have easily changed the stats for the rest of the Echo Fighters like they did with Ken and Dark Pit but they didn't. In fact, they literally patched out the only difference in moveset that distinguished Peach and Daisy. Instances like this just show how inconsistently designed the Echo Fighters are.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Very true, it's clear they didn't have much of a plan to define what is and isn't an echo fighter. I guess Chrom has differences in his up b and a consistent hitbox throughout the sword compared to Roy too but it makes you wonder why Daisy and Richter have no differences

@DoctorMario606 3 года назад

If Shadow was an echo, its potential wouldn't have been wasted.

@Ddosamagang760 3 года назад

I kinda think that it be stupid to make sonics moveset sh*t and shadows good, that would piss off most of the sonic community, and, They shouldn't give sonic boost, that would be abused.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

I mean if Shadow was an echo of Sonic I doubt that his moveset would be that much different than Sonic's, which is why I think a lot of people have talked about Metal Sonic becoming an echo over Shadow

@brandonwilliams6119 3 года назад

It was wasted on a 2nd Fire Emblem Echo, no other series has 2 echoes, not even Mario, that should tell you how much favoritism is towards FE.

@orangeslash1667 3 года назад

@@brandonwilliams6119 nintendo wants to focus on characters that are playable and have their movesets have references to the games they come from. Fire emblem beats zelda in that regard.

@NicolasAndrade-zn1wo 3 года назад

@@brandonwilliams6119 I mean FE Always changes protagonists, and Chrom, Lucina and Robin form a triforce (pun intended) of Awakening protagonists. I don't understand why Ravio and Hilda weren't echos for Young Link and Zelda, though.

@AndyCormierYT 3 года назад

In this household we choose the HOT Belmont 😳😳

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Javi only destroyed me because he made me play SIMON

@borkbork9541 3 года назад

So, Simon

@IcyDiamond 3 года назад

@@borkbork9541 nah Richter lol

@GurrenPrime 3 года назад

I remember hearing somewhere that the thing that separates echos from semi-clones is the character models’ skeletons. Doc Mario doesn’t have Fludd, which would likely be stored inside of Mario’s model when it’s not being used, Captain Falcon doesn’t have a sword, and Pichu and Toon/Young Link are different sizes from their older counterparts. Meanwhile, while Ken is very different from Ryu, they can presumably be posed in all the exact same ways. At least, that’s the explanation I’ve heard.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

That would make sense! The only one that sounds like a stretch is Doc and Mario since they have a very similar character model lol

@GurrenPrime 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash wrt Doc and Mario, like I said, Fludd is likely stored in Mario’s body when not in use. So it’d be part of his character model when it isn’t part of Doc’s. I remember seeing some footage of Dragon Ball FighterZ which no-clipped inside of the characters and the characters actually had their smear frames stored inside of them, so I imagine something like that happens here too.

@Err0_Will 3 года назад

@@GurrenPrime I'm late but that's not how FLUDD works, how Smash handles stuff like FLUDD or other things that show up only for a Second is that it loads a separate folder that contains a new model like there's a folder that has FLUDD in it

@GurrenPrime 3 года назад

@@Err0_Will oh, huh. Then I really have no idea why Doc couldn’t have been an Echo.

@Err0_Will 3 года назад

@@GurrenPrime Right?

@MarioGenerations 3 года назад

So I actually have a theory for why Chrom is a Roy echo The reason for Lucina being a Marth echo is because she’s related to Marth. Chrom is also related to Marth so he would also make sense as a Marth echo. Thing is, Marth already has an echo with lucina. However, Marth does have a semiclone, Roy. Because Roy has a similar moveset to Marth why not make chrom an echo of Roy?

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

It makes sense from a similarity in moveset sense but not canonically. It moreso points to the problem now that 4 of the fire emblem characters in Smash now have almost the exact same moveset lol

@thesandkingdom 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash The reason Chrom was an echo of Roy is bc Roy’s Smash appears is more aggressive.. and Chrom is also aggressive in the game. It wasnt bc Roy had a sword and Stuff.. there was an actual reason

@penguincjp 3 года назад

My biggest issue with Echo Fighters is that they haven’t added any after the base roster I don’t think they should sell them as DLC, but maybe throw some in with other DLC characters? Or be extremely generous and give them to us through free updates? It shouldn’t take too much time to make them, and there are plenty of characters that could easily be Echo Fighters I think it would be a nice way to add fan favorite characters without taking up too much development time

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Yeah I've been wondering why we haven't gotten any Echo Fighters as DLC too, but I would honestly be willing to pay for them or even extra costumes for characters already in the game I respect that Nintendo is trying to hold back on the amount of DLC they're selling for the game though because I would be broke LOL

@ZachaRicO 3 года назад

Sakurai mentioned once that Echos aren't as easy to make as we might think. Sure, they're probably not as difficult as creating a fighter from scratch, but there are still a number of aspects of the character that need to be worked on.

@sonicthehedge 2 года назад

In my book. Hero aka Luminary has 3 echo fighters xD

@Spingerex 2 года назад

That's what I've been saying!

@backup368 3 года назад

Injustice 2 is probably the game that best presents its clones. Boon admits they're full-fledged clones, but they also have different voice actors, and there are no blurred lines as to how different they are from their original counterparts. John Stewart, Vixen, Mr. Freeze, Power Girl, Black Lightning, Grid, Bizarro, Reverse Flash, Jay Garrick, and Bruce Wayne I guess but he's just Batman with Bruce's appearance.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Yeah I would rather have defined lines between what does and doesn't make a clone like that. Like why is Alph a reskin but not his own character and why do some echo fighters have different moves when others don't? Hopefully they straighten that out if they're brought back in Smash 6

@k-leb4671 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Man I keep forgetting Alph is in this game because they stuck him as alternative costumes to a character that's already fairly inconspicuous. Hell I think the developers themselves forgot Alph was in this game, which is why they didn't promote him to echo fighter.

@goGothitaLOL 3 года назад

At least trade Daisy's float, turnips, and air accerlation in favor for her extra jump, carrots, and mobility. That and give her Peach's old forward throw, down-throw and maybe even up-air (if CERO allows that). I just want her to be easier to pick up than Peach (i don't play her as much as i wanted to), to give people a actual reason to use her instead of Peach. EDIT: and as for Dark Samus, literally just give it the 3 Assist Trophy moves for it's neutral-b (the Phazon balls), side-b (the Phazon missiles) and down smash (Phazon pillars) and call it a day.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Agreed on both things, Peach and Daisy are way too hard to play 💀 If sucks that Dark Samus had a more original moveset as an assist trophy then as a playable fighter 😭

@Spingerex 2 года назад

Yes!!

@orangeslash1667 2 года назад

@@Spingerex Sakurai doesn't want to make character Moveset's based on Sport games. There's nothing to Daisy other than she plays sports.

@javisingsmusic9444 3 года назад

I was not expecting to hear my “damn” lmao, I love the cutaways and the editing and audio just keeps getting better, keep it up bb!

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

I wanted to leave that as a surprise for you :) thanks a lot man! I'm excited with the direction the channel is going

@diamond556 3 года назад

Shadow not being in smash still makes me sad

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

What do you mean he's an assist trophy hahahafuck :,^)

@diamond556 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash oh yeah I forgot hehe Totally still not in pain btw 😂

@orangeslash1667 3 года назад

@@diamond556 what makes shadow so cool are his hover shoes, without them shadow isn't shadow and the shoes don't work in 2d.

@thirty4749 3 года назад

Very confused on why you forgot to include the weird situation of alph not being an echo fighter 🤨. Olimars the only character in the game where there’s 2 separate playable characters but ain’t considered echo fighters. It seemed like such a free idea to do just replace purples Pikmin with rocks for alph. That’s legit all they had to do and it still makes me question on why they never did it 😭

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Trueeee, I should've talked about that along with the situation with the Koopalings and Alex/Zombie. Seems kinda weird to have those just be different costumes

@mikeydowikey4140 2 года назад

Honestly if Smash Ultimate gets ported onto the next console, I hope the echoes are decloned. Ken is practically his own character, just tweak him a tiny bit more so it’s clear he’s his own character. Idk what they could do with Lucina, Chrom and Richter but I’m sure they’ll come up with something. Daisy and Dark Samus should be pretty easy to differentiate since there’s a plethora of games to pull from for each. Dark Pit is also actually pretty good, just replace some weapons with others and we’re golden.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

This is a really cool idea if they port the game again (Ultimate was a semi port of 4)! They only add a couple new characters to the base roster at this point before DLC anyway so that would be a pretty easy way to provide value

@mikeydowikey4140 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash yeah! I actually thought a lot about this. The game could be called Super Smash Bros Ultimate +, Super Smash Bros Ultimate C, or Super Smash Bros Ultimate Deluxe. What’s up with “C”, you might ask? Well, C is the Roman Numeral for 100, which is how many base game characters the port will have (counting Pokémon Trainer as 3, and Pyra/Mythra as 2) Dark Pit (decloned) - 83 Lucina (decloned) - 84 Daisy (decloned) - 85 Richter (decloned) - 86 Chrom (decloned) - 87 Dark Samus (decloned) - 88 Ken (decloned) - 89 Isaac (Golden Sun) - 90 Crash Bandicoot - 91 Spyro - 92 Dr. Eggman - 93 Master Chief - 94 Gen 9 Pokémon - 95 Bandanna Waddle Dee - 96 Impa (AoC) - 97 New 1st Party Rep - 98 Rayman - 99 Sora - 100 They can also tweak stuff from the original game like Sonic’s moveset! Literally take Smash Ultimate, fix it’s weak areas, while also adding in new stuff!

@NintendoGamingCentral 3 года назад

I don't understand why we don't have more echo fighters post base game. Sure I get it for more originals but it has been lightly touched upon in base game. Let's hope for echo fighter pass because there's so much more potential for echo fighters.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

I'm surprised too, they seem like they wouldn't take much time to make. Why not throw them in with a full-fledged DLC character each time one comes out or make an Echo Fighters DLC Pass?

@NintendoGamingCentral 3 года назад

I remember Sakurai saying no more echoes but we know he bluffs saying things.

@NintendoGamingCentral 3 года назад

If it doesn't happen then it's a disappointment in my opinion since they went out of their way to create the echo fighter brand but never actually use it post game. Instead they may be digging it into a deep hole if you will.

@geno9919 3 года назад

I feel like echo fighters should've been like Dr mario

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Agreed, but that probably would've taken too much dev time unfortunately

@geno9919 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash true

@creakingskull7008 3 года назад

11:03 I love this, any mediocre youtuber trying to be funny would go "Huh wait who are you?" at the hand at the end but he didn't, the joke is good as it is

@creakingskull7008 3 года назад

Creaking Skull

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Glad you liked the cutaway! Originally I was just going to hold the whiteboard but BigRig volunteered to act as a third hand and the joke spoke for itself like you said

@RicklesReal 3 года назад

Your presentation is very good, big fan of your uploads

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Thanks Rick! Hope you've been doing well :)

@donutdome 3 года назад

I think echo fighters are a good choice since they take hardly any dev time (compared to other characters) and have just enough changes to be prefered over the other

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Exactly, I like the idea of labelling them as echoes to make it clear that less effort was put into them

@IcyDiamond 3 года назад

Yeah agreed

@Antonio-is2cn Год назад

Ken classified as an Echo Fighter is more of a throwback to Street Fighter 1 and Street Fighter 2 The World Warrior specifically where Ken had the same moves as Ryu but with a different look as well as playing Ryu vs Ken being the only way to do a mirror match in the first version of Street Fighter 2.

@LowJoziah 2 года назад

Imagine if they added echo characters to get updates to their moveset (kinda like unfinished projects that players would be able to see the progression) and at the end of smash's biggest update they'd stop becoming echoes and their own characters with unique movesets of their own

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Some ideas are just too good to be done ;-;

@LowJoziah 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Unfortunately 😔

@brandonwilliams6119 3 года назад

It’s been 2 years after Ultimate’s release and I hate to say it, Echo Fighters in general were wasted potential. I won’t go into too much detail unless someone is curious. About Daisy: as much as I love her as the Best Mario Princess and my Waifu, she’s the worst echo, she’s essentially Peach with 8 more alternate colors, a different voice and same attacks with same properties, however in her defense at least she has a unique idle animation unlike Dark Pit and Lucina. It’s a shame because she was the one to introduce the concept along with those 2.

@k-leb4671 3 года назад

"It’s a shame because she was the one to introduce the concept along with those 2." What grinds my gears is that in her introduction, the narrator actually mentioned she'd have gameplay differences. Maybe it was lost in translation from Sakurai's original speech, but either way it was a total lie in the end.

@k-leb4671 3 года назад

I agree that Daisy fits nicely as an echo fighter, but I still wish at least one of her moves was different to Peach. Her moveset should reflect her divergent personality from Peach's in more ways than just taunts. For example, Daisy has never plucked veggies out of the ground. She didn't even exist when Super Mario Bros 2 was released. Her down special should be something from one of the sports games or Super Mario Land. She's also never used a parasol (except in Mario Party...?) so I think her up special should be truncated so that it only involves the initial upwards momentum and a short damaging hitbox on her raised fist. She also shouldn't be able to float like Peach. Instead, seeing as she has more jumps than any other character in Super Mario Run, she should have more jumps than Peach in Super Smash Bros; two mid-air jumps instead of one, and combined with her up special gives her 3 mid-air jumps. Dark Pit could also stand to be a bit more different. Let him use his lance in his regular moveset for god's sake! Overall I think the echo fighters are a slight missed opportunity and give the developers too much of an excuse to not put at least a little effort into these extra characters.

@michaeleverett1376 3 года назад

They should update daisy's final smash like they did with cloud's. Change her dance and music to fit her tomboyish nature. (Someone tell that to nintendo).

@Spingerex 2 года назад

I agree heavily

@dextra_24703 2 года назад

For Daisy I would have thought giving her a additional air jump removing the float, make down air spike on the last hit.

@holicxhunter 2 года назад

6:33 i felt this lol. tellius re-release when

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Every single day I have to fight the urge to replay the Tellius games ...I'm probably going to do it before I make the "Fire Emblem Deserves Better in Smash Bros." video lol

@SussyBaka_irl 3 года назад

Gotta say dude, your most recent uploads have been on fire, like you've truly got this content creation gig on YT down!👌 Well done!😁

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Thank you so much!! I really feel like I found my niche starting with the Sephiroth video so I'm excited to have a direction for my content now :)

@exaltedfalcheon1793 2 года назад

Marth has tippers, Roy has reverse tippers, Lucina is Marth minus the tippers, Chrom is Roy and Ike mashed together, And Byleth has a Bow, Axe and Lance I'm a Fe Fan so this might be biased, but this might be enough variety

@custom-r 3 года назад

Blood Falcon or Black Shadow could be easy echo fighters of Captain Falcon and maybe Ganondorf respectively. Project M had some good ideas with the, but you remember custom moves in Smash 3DS? Use some of those to fill out say some of the echo fighters' moves. Heck, even rip some moves that used to be in Smash 64.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Project M got Ganon going in the right direction, they did a lot of good stuff to improve smash in general ;-;

@gv82089 3 года назад

Small correction: Richter is actually Simon's descendant, not his ancestor. Great vid nonetheless!!!

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Yeah you're right, I definitely got the timeline/verbage mixed up 😅 thanks for the heads up and I'm glad you enjoyed the vid!

@dextra_24703 2 года назад

For Simon I would like throws to be beefier and whip attacks to be stronger Richter should have stronger mobility maybe changing dash attack to side B, changing dash attack to down tilt 2 and making down special be made of three forward moving flames that are smaller than the flame pillar.

@alexanderman31 9 месяцев назад

Here’s some possible echo Fighter ideas. Sakurai can take these for the next game. Dixie Kong as Diddy Kong’s EF Funky Kong as Donkey Kong’s EF Shadow as Sonic’s EF Alph as Olimar’s EF Ms Pac Man as my boy Pac Man’s EF Ninten as Ness’ EF Black Shadow as Captain Falcon’s EF Dry Bowser as Bowser’s EF Octoling as Inkling’s EF Metal Mario as Mario’s EF Mr L as Luigi’s EF

@dextra_24703 2 года назад

For dark Samus I would make her give the ability to split into an echo clone with side special removing rockets, the clone would have the ai of the pokemon summon scizor. Making charge shot not a kill move but increase the damage a lot.

@BigRigCreates 3 года назад

I echo these opinions

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

And you will FIGHT anyone who disagrees amiright

@BigRigCreates 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash ER yeah

@castform7 3 года назад

I really think they need to work out the kinks to echos. Ken's considered one, but he has more originality than Doc, Pichu Yink and Tink combined. I guess since you have this new term Echo fighter, it would be weird if the original Echo wasn't one but still.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Agreed, there just doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to what makes an Echo Fighter in Ultimate Make Doc an Echo and add Paper Mario in Smash 6 PLEASE

@castform7 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Couldn't agree more. But my theory as to why things are what they are is because of the proportions. Most characters with Echos have relatively the same proportions. Maybe characters like Young Link and Pichu aren't Echos because they're much shorter than the original fighters (another reason could be because they just came back after at the time 17 years so they probably want to pull the strings of newer or recent characters like Dark Pit and Lucina). This is just me reaching though. And I still don't understand why Doc isn't one since he fits none of the criteria of my reaching. Just echofy him.

@k-leb4671 3 года назад

@@castform7 I don't see why proportions are such a sticking point to the developers. Echo fighters aren't alternative costumes - they don't have to fit hurtboxes exactly. And either way, Toon Link should be labelled an echo of Young Link or vice versa.

@castform7 3 года назад

@@k-leb4671 Well that was just the best thing I could think of for why Pichu and the like aren't echos since every single classified echo has around the same proportions. The only other reason I could see Pichu and Young Link specifically not being echos is because they were benched for like 18 years so it'd be pretty lame for them to come back only to be labeled as echos. Also there's the confusion of which small Link would be the echo of the other.

@djdrizzy9139 3 года назад

Daisy was the most disappointing one for me. I was so excited to play her, and they even promised that her moves would behave differently dispite looking similar. I was excited to find the differences, until it turned out that she plays EXACTLY like Peach. Come on Nintendo, fix this in a patch! 🙏

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

They actually patched Daisy to play EXACTLY like Peach in one of the earlier patches, her turnips used to behave differently and made her an objective upgrade over Peach Sorry, but I don't think they'll be patching her again :(

@djdrizzy9139 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Even that was underwhelming. How about different rare items from down-b? How about a side-b that lanches at more vertical angle for combos? A 2-hit up-b with more kb but less vertical recovery? Triple jump/jump cancels instead of float? A sleep counter? A fair or dair that spikes? Some of Peach's old attack animations (like a headbutt)? Faster ground speed and fall speed? Those were the kind of changes I was expecting, but nope, just wasted potential.

@k-leb4671 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Actually I think the turnip differences made her an objective downgrade from Peach. At least that's what my fuzzy memory of other people mentioning it recalls.

@k-leb4671 3 года назад

@@djdrizzy9139 Why a sleep counter?

@djdrizzy9139 3 года назад

@@k-leb4671 It was one of Peach's custom specials and it'd fit Daisy's flower theme. Also, Daisy was not objectively worse, they both had slightly different strengths and weakness. It just depended on what your preference (better combo tool or kill tool).

@2ori1012 3 года назад

Loved the vid :)

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

I'm glad that you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching :)

@kannankranz5873 3 года назад

0:19 yeah we do need more links

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

LMAO next we'll get Link from Zelda CDI

@kannankranz5873 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Once again I get to be noticed by you

@ArmaBiologica35 2 года назад

I think someone like Richter Belmont or Dark Samus should have their own set of moves but I don't think they would have made it to Super Smash Bros otherwise

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

I could see Dark Samus making it as their own character due to the popularity of Metroid, moveset potential, and lack of other character options in the series but I agree that Richter definitely wouldn't be in the game as his own character

@JAProductions494 3 года назад

I always found it weird that Dr Mario was his own character! I’ve played as him a few times and would rather he was a costume for Mario and we had a new character like Waluigi or Dr Eggman (after seeing your last video Eggman is now high on my list for new characters!)

@IcyDiamond 3 года назад

Waluigi and Eggman would be great additions to Smash!

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Agreed, it's insane that Doctor Mario and Piranha Plant are playable characters before Waluigi

@JAProductions494 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Piranha Plant is my boi so I can let it slide! 😂

@INFERNO95 3 года назад

It weird because you don't know shit about mario legacy or the mario fans.

@INFERNO95 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash There nothing insane about it. Dr mario is a classic character that been around longer and has his own games. The plant is a long time mario villain that been around longer and been in more games then purple wario. Mario been around for forty years and have many games made over the years whit unique characters made over the years that fans love and grow up whit. Mario fans rather have a plant whit unique move set over a another plumber whit no unique move set that nobody would care about.

@PlanOrdo 3 года назад

What makes Chrom a weird one also is that Sakurai said if he was in (Smash 4) he'd have been an Ike clone. Which also wouldn't make sense given the Falchion and Ragnell aren't the same in length at all...

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

See I would've been on board with that a little more given they both have the Aether skill but yeah the sword length would've looked super wierd. Imagine Chrom and Lucina going at it, Chrom wielding a giant Falchion and Lucina wielding a little toothpick Falchion LOL

@LG555 3 года назад

My Problem with Daisy as an Echo-Fighter is, that there is no reason to play her instead of Peach, because gameplaywise they are completely the same. Of course that also goes for Richter and Dark Samus, where at least I get why Richter isn't that different, since his and Simons moveset is an amalgamation of these two. Dark Samus on the other hand I don't get at all, as she has so many slightly different animations from Samus, that probably were a ton of work, just to have her do the exact same thing. The only difference is the hight of her Charge Shot, which makes it easier to hit characters hanging on the ledge, which doesn't matter most of the time. And don't get me started on different hiteffects i.e. electricity or aura, as firstly, i know that, secondly, it again doesn't matter, and thirdly, Daisy doesn't even get that, as the only thing that changes is, that hearts get replaced with daisys. My idea for Daisy would have been, to make her a faster character than Peach, but remove her abbility to float, as it was never an abbility Daisy even had.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

That was kind of the point of creating the Echo Fighters category though. It was a way to include more characters on the roster while cutting down on development, but making it clear that they're clone characters by giving them the "Echo Fighter " label. Most Echo Fighters are just a glorified palette swap. Yes it would be great to give them more differences from their original characters but I don't think characters like Daisy would've been added to the roster at all if that extra effort needed to be put in unfortunately :(

@INFERNO95 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Daisy was most requested mario character so they were gonna add her but choose the lazy way out. Stop acting the plumbers are the only damn mario characters people care about.

@k-leb4671 3 года назад

The developers just didn't want to deal with the busywork of game balance. That's why they put tonnes of effort into changing Dark Samus' animations, only to make the actual important part of her moveset the exact same as Samus'.

@orangeslash1667 2 года назад

@@INFERNO95 Sakurai doesn't want to make character Moveset's based on Sport games. There's nothing to Daisy other than she plays sports.

@INFERNO95 2 года назад

@@orangeslash1667 Some of her moves are from sports game. So what your point?

@raptorlec 3 года назад

Great video man! Not a huge fan of that jab at my man Doc in the beginning of the video...but otherwise awesome video!

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Thanks Alec! Where was the lie about Doc though ;)

@luisadolfothewolf7042 Год назад

I think the logic on Chrom being an Echo is because: Roy is a Marth semi-clone, and Chrom is a descendent of Marth, which means it would make sense if they had similar fighting styles, but as Lucina is already Marth's Echo, Chrom became Roy's Echo There's also the fact Roy's moveset is a "thougher" version of Marth's more "graceful" fighting style, which, despite ironically not fitting Roy for his game (tho most FE fans see that as an improvement, no one seems to like Roy's personality on his game, tho love his Smash's personality), fits Chrom really well Also Roy can't use magic on his game, it's just that his sword can cast fire for range attacks ._.

@ILikeNerdShit 3 года назад

Richter is not Simon's ancestor, it's the other way around. Simon is Richter's ancestor.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

You're right, I used the word incorrectly there

@Zoroark_Master 3 года назад

My personal issues with echo (specifically the ones added to ultimate) -chrom should’ve been an Ike echo, so we had 3 DE reps that play very similarly and didn’t need a fourth one. -the only difference between daisy and peach was in their turnips, but they patched it so it would be the same. It wouldn’t had been that hard to come up with a few changes -with how they made daisy, there’s 0 reasons why alph isn’t an echo. -I feel we didn’t get that much echo with only 7 (with 2 of them being from smash4) a bit more echo or maybe some as DLC would’ve been welcome. -more a personal wish, but I would’ve love to see celica from FE echoes as a robin echo (just change the durability system on the spells to her getting damage when she use her spells like pichu to reflect how magic work in FE echoes) -other good echo ideas would’ve been octoling for inkling, Jeanne for bayonetta and shadow for sonic (or silver/metal sonic since shadow is an assist) But I don’t think they’re bad overall and it’s better than nothing. And for dark samus (any echo for that matter) was pretty much either what we have currently or not have them in the game at all (seems dark samus wasn’t enough of a priority over the other ultimate base non-echo newcomers to get an original moveset)

@thesmashbeyonder5127 3 года назад

I would of prefer him to have his own moveset but he's good the way he is

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Who are you talking about? Chrom?

@thesmashbeyonder5127 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash yeah, but I guess the other one could have their own move sets too

@SeanWootton 3 года назад

Dark Samus I can see why that character should be bit more unique. Daisy doesn’t do very much in the main game that her biggest con, I wanted bandana Waddle Dee and he been more main games than her. FE Games not my type but fighter list is not great because half the fe fighters are just marths. Dark Pit I don’t know to much about him but Make sense he a echo. Ken of course the perfect echo of ryu Richter make sense too

@Spingerex 2 года назад

It's a shame Dark Samus had more originality as an assist trophy, could've been saved for DLC too.

@orangeslash1667 2 года назад

@@Spingerex Zoner characters are very hard to balance.

@dextra_24703 2 года назад

For the pits I would like for pit to have faster ground speed and Dark pit to have higher air speed. Rivals of aether is really just the better game because people made them instantly way better.

@curesaul5749 3 года назад

I wish there was an Echo fighters pass. I wish there where more, but Chrom shouldn’t have been included.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Considering there haven't been any costume DLC packs I'm not surprised that Nintendo is skipping out on an easy opportunity like an Echo Fighters pass Agreed, Chrom should have been his own character

@curesaul5749 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash like i’m against a third fighters pass but a echo or costume would be great.

@IcyDiamond 3 года назад

@@curesaul5749 which characters would you want for an echos pass?

@curesaul5749 3 года назад

@@IcyDiamond Dixie, Impa, octoling, Ninjara.

@IcyDiamond 3 года назад

@@curesaul5749 yeah they’d be cool characters, personally if they were to do more third party echos then Ms. Pac Man and Shadow would be good choices for that

@jenniferpratt3007 Год назад

Hey dude is Radiant dawn your favorite game

@PowPowSmash Год назад

It's one of them but definitely my favorite Fire Emblem game!

@jenniferpratt3007 Год назад

@@PowPowSmash I started with three houses witch is blessing and a curse I cant really go to older games because of how good three houses is and also on question…. HOW IS YOUR CHANNEL SO UNDERRATED

@coolgamerjaw8803 3 года назад

I think it’s a good way to add clones

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

I agree! It was just a fun idea for a video to see which characters would be able to have their own unique moveset if given the opportunity

@coolgamerjaw8803 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash yeah good point

@vossboss220 3 года назад

The only reason my Ken is considered an echo fighter imo is for the echo fighter branding. He's clearly a semi clone

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Agreed, idk why he isn't a standalone character but characters like Isabelle and Toon Link are

@BasementDweller_ 3 года назад

I wanted to see Ninten as an Echo fighter of Ness....if only.

@IcyDiamond 3 года назад

Pls no, I don’t need another character with PK Fire

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

And I want Mother 3 to be brought to the west ;-;

@issacmunsen3663 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash a man can only dream

@orangeslash1667 3 года назад

@@jazyzamp3056 that reason mother 3 was not released in the west is because it's a gameboy advance game released on 2006 when the DS was still popular, thats a hard sell.

@IcyDiamond 3 года назад

@@jazyzamp3056 I hate PK Fire more but that Yo-Yo can also be annoying

@mrjohnm10 3 года назад

This literally sounds like schaf productions

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Just looked up a video of his, yeah I can kind of hear the similarity!

@IcyDiamond 3 года назад

How about Ms. Pac Man as a Pac Man echo, I mean people want a new Namco character in so she would fill that niche, and it’d be another cool arcade rep in the game and one of the most iconic woman in all of gaming

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

That's an awesome idea! It would be super easy to do and she would be a great addition to the roster

@IcyDiamond 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash tbh I’m kinda surprised she wasn’t part of the base roster, concerned Namco helped develop Smash Bros and everything

@PJDAltamirus0425 3 года назад

We need a Tales Rep or Soul Caliber (both Namco properties) before a retro clone.

@IcyDiamond 3 года назад

@@PJDAltamirus0425 I mean both haven’t gotten Mii Costumes yet so either joining seems 100% possible

@IcyDiamond 2 года назад

@@PJDAltamirus0425 Welp we got a Tekken rep

@thatclipmakerguy9959 2 года назад

Shadow the Hedgehog could've been an echo fighter (even though he should be his own fighter) and I still can't get over it!

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

ME NEITHER. They really waited until the last minute to show that Shadow was an assist trophy again 😭

@thatclipmakerguy9959 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash That's the main thing thay annoys me about Shadow being deconfirmed! At least with Waluigi and Bomberman, they crushed our dreams early. But with characters like Shadow, Isaac, Spring Man, & Rex: *NO!* They just let us speculate for 3 months and kicked us in the nuts 1 month before the game released! *breathes out* Oh god that feels better.

@orangeslash1667 2 года назад

@@thatclipmakerguy9959 Remember Shadow was originally suppose to die at the end of Adventure 2, till Sega brought him back. It's hard to give shadow a move-set when he wasn't met to stay. Also his hover shoes look off in 2d😓.

@yellowgamers5996 3 года назад

Best Echoes are Chrom and Ken, and boring ones are Dark Samus, Lucina, Dark Pit, Daisy, and Richter

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Agreed, Ken and Chrom have a significantly different playstyle from their originals

@backup368 3 года назад

_"To celebrate the Metroid Prime Trilogy"._ ROFL

@lordrambo7898 2 года назад

I gotta say wasted potential. Clones or echo fighters they’re the same thing to me. But anyway I wouldn’t exactly call it wasted potential but not enough love given to them to not have that label slapped on them. Dark samus tho I would 100% say wasted potential. Having her go from cool assist trophy to full blown clone/echo in smash was a waste. At least Isabelle is different enough to not be called a clone/echo.

@kaiserxblue 2 года назад

Echoes are not a waste whatsoever, period as long as you make them a bit different like ken and Ryu that ken was faster and his shoryuken is based on fire like it did in sf turbo. Chrom up special is similar to Ike and yet the rest of his moveset is based on Roy and that's fine. Not to mention that he is faster than Roy....but.pit and d pit and peach and daisy should definitely have something different yet they do not. Anyways, point is that most echoes are ok and let's leave it at that.

@true5852 3 года назад

Nice.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Nice.

@martinsaenz9657 3 года назад

Echo Fighters are wasted potential. The idea sounds good on paper but executed poorly. There are only 5 Echo Fighters in the entire roster (not counting Dark Pit and Lucina since they were in before the idea of echo fighters). There were tons of missed opportunities like Shadow for Sonic (I'm still mad about Shadow being given the Waluigi treatment once again), Proto Man or Bass for Mega Man, Agent 8 for the Inklings, and the list goes on. Point being, there are only very few Echo Fighters (and only 2 are third-party) and that's not enough even for something new that's been introduced in the latest "Ultimate" instalment making this such a wasted potential. Also F**K Chrom, this waste of space on the roster never deserved to be in. It's not really fair how Fire Emblem got 2 echo fighters while every others get 1. I feel like they added Chrom in as an Echo just for another excuse to add in another lame sword wielding Fire Emblem character to the roster. I feel like Nintendo is very biased towards Fire Emblem when it comes to Smash I swear.

@Spingerex 2 года назад

"wOW,iT's AlmOst aS iF SmAsH bRos WaS mAdE iN jApAn dErp hOeS mAd hurpy derp!" I was hoping for another Mega Man rep,most preferably Proto Man,Bass,X,or Zero. Idk why people expect us to kiss Sakurai's ass everytime he breathes,the guy's cool and all,but I think Nintendo throws a little more cash at him in order to promote every FE game.

@martinsaenz9657 2 года назад

@@Spingerex I guess Nintendo is so biased towards FE like it's their special child.

@tommyhamlin4611 3 года назад

Tbh the fact that we got Daisy as an echo fighter and not Shadow is odd like Shadow actually plays like Sonic in SA2 but Daisy being a echo doesn't make much sense to me since Daisy isn't that similar to Peach you never see Daisy commanding any Toads for example

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

The toad thing is confusing now that you mention it but other than that Peach and Daisy appear in all of the same games doing all of the same things. Shadow actually has quite a few different moves from Sonic in the games like Chaos Spear and Chaos Blast

@tommyhamlin4611 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Yeah that is true also good video btw

@INFERNO95 3 года назад

This is a Nintendo game not a Sega game. Daisy was a highly requested mario character who has a big fanbase. Unless you one of those people who it all about the plumbers?

@tommyhamlin4611 3 года назад

@@INFERNO95 I'm not saying i don't want Daisy in Smash at all i just wish she wasn't a echo fighter that's all

@k-leb4671 3 года назад

Daisy is at least surrounded by Blue Toads in a couple of Mario spin-offs. I seriously don't understand the turnip-plucking thing with her though.

@espurrseyes42 2 года назад

Wasted potential. You had the opportunity to outfit character X with canonical moves from their games and maybe even some alternative source or even completely original moves to make them stand out in a sea of nearly 100 characters... and you instead chose to make them a near one for one copy of someone that, sometimes not even making sense regarding the character you sourced. Why does are their 4 different flavors of Marth when none of them fight the same aside from Lucina and Chrom, both of which we can see in Awakening don't fight like Marth (no, the Streetpass characters don't count)? In a game that has about 100 weapons spread across like 10 classes and additional customization with powers, why did Dark Pit go with a loadout nearly identical to Pit when the whole deal with his character is NOT wanting to be seen as a Pit clone? Why is Doctor Mario even a thing at all when it's LITERALLY just Mario in a different outfit? Why does Ganondorf still not do actual Ganondorf stuff and still uses a dude from a polar opposite franchise as the base for his moveset? Etc. Echoes. Clones. Whatever you want to call them. They're a waste of a character's potential, and a disrespect to their legacy. Almost as disrespect as Sonic's moveset, but that's a whole different story.

@larryflaco8320 3 года назад

Echos ranked 7 Dasiy 6 ricther 5 dark Samus 4 dark pit 3 Lucina 2 chrom 1 ken

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

I could see Dark Samus being higher but this is a good list! I'm assuming it's just based on how cool/important the character is in their own game/in general?

@larryflaco8320 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash this is based off of how differences these echos have in game have

@alexnice2221 2 года назад

You guys exagerate about the FE representation. Apart from the 2 echo fighters Lucina and Chrom, the FE chars are all clearly different visualy and gameplay wise

@espurrseyes42 2 года назад

8 fighters for a franchise that's biggest achievement is 3M sales compared to the double digit Millions that Mario, Zelda, and PKMN among others have gotten is unwarranted. Half of them being based off 1 moveset only makes them look worse, and other additions being sword-wielding Lords that use a fair bit of stock Swordie animations only makes it even worse.

@larryflaco8320 3 года назад

Call Nintendo support so we will know what are the official differences between Peach and Daisy

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

They patched out the one difference which was their turnips doing a different amount of damage LOL

@savagenoria2003 3 года назад

Oof Not my boy Captain Falcon 😭

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

I love him too but it looks like the fzero games are just done whether we like it or not :(((

@darkdevil399 3 года назад

I'm really disappointed by Lucina and Chrom since Awakening was the Renaissance that saved the franchise from getting axed and was the game that popularized Fire Emblem in the west.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

It's great that the game has three characters in Smash but having two of them be Echo Fighters (with Chrom being Roy's making zero sense) is a big letdown. The Fire Emblem franchise needs an overhaul in Smash in general

@k-leb4671 3 года назад

A lot of Smash and Fire Emblem fans are disappointed by Lucina and Chrom because they don't want 3 characters from 1 game in a 10+ game series.

@malvasiof 3 года назад

We just need Smash 4 Link and everything would be ok

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Young Link is right there

@malvasiof 3 года назад

No thank you. Not good enough

@darthvader473 3 года назад

Some of these echo fighters wasted a character slot.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Sakurai made it clear that echoes don't take character slots away from normal fighters, they're just extra add-ons to include more characters

@MaxMonado 3 года назад

Smh my head Sakurai said the opposite for years and it even got talked about multiple times in the video

@darthvader473 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Oh.

@darthvader473 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Sorry if my reaction is a little late.

@LupusArcana 3 года назад

That clone bit was the best bit

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Thanks Elijah! Definitely my favorite cutaway I've done so far haha

@orangeslash1667 3 года назад

No Sakurai has not made a bad game because he does't like making squeals for the sake of it. Thats why he left the Kirby series.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

Makes sense, I'm surprised he's stayed with the Smash series this long if he doesn't like sequels

@orangeslash1667 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash I think smash is the exception because he was disappointed kid icarus uprising sales considering that was a request from the late Satoru Iwata.

@teko4752 2 года назад

Wasted potential and not much sense Dr mario and Pichu NOT echoes ?!

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

They technically have their own spots on the Ultimate roster, you can tell by looking at the Smash Bros website. They're considered fighters 18 and 19

@teko4752 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Seems odd to me

@memoryman3586 2 года назад

I believe it's because their attributes are too different from Mario and Pikachu. Pichu is the lightest character in the game and smaller than Pikachu. Doctor Mario is much slower. Echoes have almost the same attributes and play almost identically to the base character, sans a couple changes. If I were to guess they did this to make Echoes easier to playtest and balance.

@espurrseyes42 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash And they have about as many if not less differences than Ken and Ryu.

@tyleralfano6311 3 года назад

if you think dr.mario should be a echo fighter how about you play as him! he’s completely unique compared to mario.

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

I mean Dr. Mario was original added as a clone character to Mario in Melee so this idea is nothing new lol

@locknessmonster3827 11 месяцев назад

Smash Ultimate calls Dark Samus a female, so it is weird when you refer to her as an they.

@borkbork9541 3 года назад

Look at this silly fire emblem fans

@PowPowSmash 3 года назад

The franchise is doing great in its own series but man is it horribly represented in Smash :( no wonder most Smash fans hate Fire Emblem lol

@borkbork9541 3 года назад

@@PowPowSmash I laughed at the byleth inclusion for a long time until I played 3houses, now I'm mostly positive to it. But I recognize objectively it's just not great to keep adding to the fe pile when so many ither franchises go completely ignored or misrepresented

@orangeslash1667 2 года назад

@@borkbork9541 It's easier to keep adding Nintendo characters then just using third party's characters, which is saying a lot since there's a pretty good amount of third parties. The Monster hunter Mii is proof that not everything can translate well in Smash.

@raikasha8152 2 года назад

All FE fighters are the same cause they use one weapon variant. Nuanced and accurate criticsm that totally isn't just an uncreative insult by salty fans towards FE.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Exactly, there are so many weapon classes in Fire Emblem that aren't represented in Smash. It's really frustrating :/

@raikasha8152 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash I think you missed the point of what I said. Lol