Agreed. Very self fulfilling prophecy. They were afraid to approach him, and when they did he was happy to be bound when it was seen as a game. It was not until they did not release him that he ever attacked them (from what we know for a fact about him)
@@formlesscorvid5336 More importantly to me as a professional dog trainer in a shelter environment is that once the humans broke his trust, they had to risk his wrath to bind him again. Someone then had to take that sacrificial hit for the good of the rest, when in all reality, had they simply treated the animal with kindness and respect from the beginning, they likely would have changed all their fates. (I think I see some new jewelry in my future.)
I always found the story of Fenrir fascinating. If Odin hadn't known the prophecy of Ragnarok, would he have become the bestest boi in all of Asgard? Perhaps a lesson not to let your fears control your actions, lest they be your own undoing.
Hugin munin Geri freki tanngrisnir tanngnjostr Hildisvini gullinbursti garm bygul and trjegul those are all the ones I got but there's literally so many lmao
Our pup came with the name “Roy” but we don’t particularly like that name. I like calling him Fenrir. He’s a typical puppy and bites on everything he can. My daughter says “Fenrir is a good name for him since he eats hands” 😂
I think Fenris being born in the shape of a wolf is because he is from the Ironwood.. Voluspa and Gylfaginning states that Fenris was raised in the Ironwood and that all residents of the Ironwood are birthed as wolves. This would suggest a specific race of jotuns who were always in the shape of wolves.
A theory I've held about the 4 Great Puppers (Skoll, Hati, Garm, Fenris) and their role in Ragnarok is that they represent each persons inner struggles against their own negative emotions. Fenrir is your Ego. Skoll and Hati are your negative emotions toward others (fear, hatred, etc). Garm is the dark void in your soul... That gnawing emptyness of your life's biggest regrets. The emptyness that can consume you in life, leading to addictions, substance abuse, etc... At the end of your life (if not before), your own personal wolves will devour you in your own personal metaphorical Ragnarok if you allowed these things to overpower you in life. I don't know how accurate any of this is as I don't have anything to really back this, but it gave me much to think about of my own life... Are my wolves running free and out of control? Or are they bound, controlled, and healthy?
The fact that you never once refered to the Jotnar as "Giants" in this video warms my heart. Perhaps this means there is hope that people will eventually learn what the Jotnar really are, instead of the common misconception that they are giants. One can only hope.
A Rokkatru's interpretation of the Betrayal of Fenrir: A long time ago Loki and Angrboða had an affair that spawned three children. Hel, Jormugandr, and Fenrir. Hel was given the domain of Hel, as it was Odins thought that giving the domain of the dead to such a person might alleviate his own death one day. Jormugandr, being a creature unpleasant to sight... and smell... was unceremoniously tossed aside to the sea like common trash. And the pup Fenrir was left in the woods outside of the great keep of Asgard, out of sight and out of mind to the Vanir and Aesir. Loki, being a poor father himself, never gave much thought to his children. But Odin, perhaps with more greed than even he expected, decided to bring the child into the walls of his holdings, much to the chagrin of his blood bound brother Loki, who would have to be reminded, alongside his wife Sigyn of his infidelity. But Fenrir was raised, alongside the other children of the Aesir and Vanir, as though he was one of their own. Fear began to grow however. Fenrir was faster, stronger, bigger than the other children And although there was no hatred or anger in the young godlings heart, the others grew paranoid. They began to hate him, began to tease him, for he was not a beautiful Vanir... nor a rune casting Aesir. Just a poor bastard of a god not Vanir or Aesir. His power grew to the point where the other children and their parents cast him out of Asgard. Tyr, ever patient and god of justice as he was, took the pup in and began to raise him by himself, again much to the anger of Loki who saw his own failings as a divine being seeing another raise the son he failed to do himself. He had heard of the mad prophecy that his children would bring an end to the reign of the gods... and began to whisper to Odin of his sons impending victory over the Allfather, and that there was no way around it... Fenrir would have to be taken care of. Odin Commanded the others to make sure Fenrir was disposed of. So the Aesir and Vanir went out and commissioned their smiths to create a chain to bind him, and went to the great wolf when Tyr was away. "Oh great Fenrir!" They said. "It has been so long since we have seen you. We remember how strong you were. We made a bet among ourselves that you can't break this chain." Fenrir, still trusting of his childhood companions responded "Bind me with these chains so that I may show you, my friends, how strong I have become." So they bound him. With one great flex of his muscled the bounds broke, and the other gods shook in fear at the sight. Fenrir, who thought he did a good thing, perhaps even to please the other gods, was shocked at their response as without a word they left. This hurt Fenrir, so he went into the woods and found companionship elsewhere, with the other wolves that lived around Asgard. There he met another wolf, and with that wolf he had two children, Hati and Skoll. Unlike his own father he decided to be a good father to his sons and raised them himself along with their mother. However he soon found himself back at the home of the only father he ever had, Tyr. The gods, not to be discouraged at their previous failings, made another chain, and returned to Fenrir. Again with fake smiles and faker friendship, cried out "Great Fenrir! Our friend! We come to you again in celebration. We hear you have two children as strong as you! We wanted to see just how strong they would be, take upon yourself these chains which we have made! Show us how strong the line of Fenrir is!" Again, hoping for the friendship among the gods he never had, accepted, and took upon himself the new chains, and with another great shake of his massive form, broke them as if they were made of plaster. Again, the gods, fearful of the wolf, broke away, again breaking the heart of the beast. Again he returned to his mate and children, making sure they were content and strong, forging the connection of father and sons even further. Not even the relationship between Odin and Thor could shine a light on the love of the line of Fenrir. The gods, getting desperate went to the dwarves deep in the earth. "Great crafters!" They said pleadingly "How do you bind the unbindable?" "Why," They answered. "you make a binding out of impossible things." And crafted Gliepnir out of the the noise a cat makes when it moves, the beard of a woman, the roots of a mountain, the sinews of a bear, the breath of a fish, and the spittle of a bird." Gleipnir was no set of chains, but a silken ribbon, that could stretch when needed, and tighten when it was strained against. They again returned to Fenrir when he returned to the home of Tyr. But this time Tyr was home. "Great Fenrir! You have broken the greatest chains of the gods. But could you break this, a binding created by the greatest crafters in all of the realms!" Fenrir, at this point, began to grow suspicious of the constant visitations by those, that by now, have proven false. "I will do this thing you ask, but your will has been false and treacherous. If one of you put their hand into my mouth. If you were to betray me, I take your hand." The other gods balked, knowing of their own treachery, none were willing to lose their hand for their evil cause. Tyr, however just and kind he was, was also trusting. Not knowing of his kinfolks plans, and knowing of Fenrir's own desire for companionship in the pantheon, offered his own hand to the wolf "My son, show them your strength, so that they may know the power of the ally you could be." Fenrir took his adopted fathers hand in his maw, and the other gods took to binding Fenrir with Gliepnir. When it was done Fenrir flexed, and shook, and strained against the silken ribbon... but it only grew tighter. After hours of fighting against the binding Fenrir gave up. "Release me, brethren. The binding is too strong even for me." It was then the other gods began to laugh and cry out in victory of their deception. It was then that Fenrir and Tyr both realized their folly. Their eyes met, but the pact was made. And even the gods cannot break a pact. With the love of father and son between them, Tyr nodded in understanding. Hesitation and pain filled the wolf's eyes, and moments passed... before the teeth closed upon the wrist of Tyr, and severed the gods appendage from his arm. With Tyr losing blood and having to tend to his wound, the other gods jeered and taunted the bound god of the wolves. One of them drove a sword through his mouth so it could not close, and they tied Gleipnir to a great stone and threw him into the darkness until Ragnarok. What the gods were not privy to was the love of the sons of the great wolf. Hati and Skoll, who found out the enchantment of Gliepnir could be broken by an impossible thing, the destruction of the sun and the moon. So they are up in the sky now, chasing the two great lights, to bring them down so their father can be released... and the line of Fenrir can have their revenge.
I'm freshly new to heathenry. I'd like you to know you saved me from WoO. I was to blinded by how cool this religion is to critically think about how he maybe tied with the AFA. I'm still loving learning about this way of worship. Thanks for all you videos. thanks for being so relatable.
Same for me, I stumbled across Ocean and to put it in a super simple way: I “ vibe-ed” with what he said and how he said it. Made me happy to find others with similar views!!
@@kadinmay They're a pair of Asatru youtubers. Ocean Keltoi seems to very much be an ideological liberal who wants folkish faith to go hand in hand with his modern ideas: they do not. "Wisdom of Odin" I truthfully have not watched much of, but that is mostly due to the fact I cannot stand his delivery or the air he has about him. Perhaps I find his title hubristic, perhaps I disdain the authoritative tone he often has when suggesting things to others, either way, not a fan.
Have you seen Overly Sarcastic Productions’ recent episode on Loki? I thought it was really cool, and she explains that Loki and his babes seems to be more tragic characters than they’re often thought of nowadays. Anyway, I think you’ll like it, and this video reminded me of it (because...Fenrir). She mentions how Loki and his children seem to all follow the mythical trope of the actions taken to prevent a prophecy ultimately causing the prophecy to come to pass, and as such is a bit of a tragedy. Anyway. Good doggos deserve head pats, even cosmic doggos
The tale of Fenris' binding is, and has always been, my favorite. Ever since I was a kid. Both Tyr and Fenris resonate with me. So many aspects to that story. One of my favorite apects is how even when bound and with a sword in its maw, it still affects the world. The drool escaping its gaping maw, due to it being kept open by the sword, creates the frothing river Von (or Van og Vån) which cuts through Jotunheim. Which gives Fenris another one of its names, and my favorite, Vanagandr. The monster of the river Von.
My first response to the story of Fenrir was pity, and then a weird kind of solidarity, because if someone did that to me, I would want to devour the world as well. Though, as you said, there could be more to it. There could have been troubling signs from Fenrir. Surely Odin in his wisdom pondered on this decision for some time. As I'm sure we all know, where it concerns prophecy or seidr, the attempt to halt an event can instead bring it to fruition. I imagine he knew the gamble, and still chose to bind the wolf. Either way, he bought us time.
@@LooniJoose Exactly. And some versions (i.e. re-tellings and translations) of the story suggest that he has an epiphany some time before Ragnarök, that the world will not end, but restart in a new age, that everything works in cycles. And he understands that this is not a tragedy that must be fought off at all costs, but accepts his fate and sees the good in it. Honestly, that is my favourite version. We don't know, of course, how much bias flowed into this over time; but I like it a lot anyway.
Odin is also not always portrayed as wise he had to journey and sacrifice for wisdom. Perhaps the story takes place before he wanders Edit: if so then it would make sense that Odin's decision may not have been the best
As a dedicated cat-lady, I just want to say... all puppers are VERY good doggos & we do not deserve them. Dogs are awesome :) Pigs too, they're smarter & more socially complex than dogs, and we should probably treat them a little better.. but I'm biased, always wanted a pig companion :) Super cool video, really enjoying it!
Pigs were sacred to the Romans, smoked beef barely last ten months, fish can last for three years, but the pig, smoked and salted the meat can last for nearly five years. Near feral hogs need no keeper for they can fend for themselves, and they always return to their human keeper cause they enjoy being sweet talk too, along with a brushing. The hogs hair is tough as copper wire and with a cure leather coat they make wonderful guard beast. Hope you have a good weekend, and G*D bless.
He's called Fenrisulf because Fenrir means "lives in the fen" so Fenrisulf means "the wolf who lives in the fen" and stories kept little kids out of marshes and bogs where they could get stuck and drown.
I'm curious. If we are going with the idea that garm is a wolf, would garmrsulf mean garmr wolf? I've heard that garmr means barking. So would garmrsulf mean barking wolf or howling wolf?
Hello, swede here! I've read the old stories since I was very young and am now studying philosophy and psychology. In later years I have come to the interpretation of the Norse wolves to be a depiction of lifes challenges and struggles. In many ways we try to exert too much control to avoid our problems and I feel like the wolves depict the inevitable troubles of life which leads to fear and regrets. In the story of Fenrisulven I kind of think of it as a story of repression. We can push aside our problems and ignore them, but they will blow up and eat us in the end if we dont tend to them. And the things that leads us to repress that which we fear will come at a price, in this case Tyr's hand. I also have another interpretation of the wolves being personifications of time. Time consumes all and is the first agent of death
UPG caveat. My take on "prophesy" myths, actions taken in attempting to prevent a prophesied misfortune, themselves bring about that misfortune. Wyrd being complex, but not really predestination per se. We make our own destiny, but aren't the only active players in achieving it.
Fenrir was a good pupper and a good story to remind people that it is bad to chain your good pupper and leaving him there. Fenrir was a good pupper who loved his good owner Tyr but was forced to hurt him because of the bad owners.
I view the story of Fenris as a warning against being overly cautious lest you make an enemy of an ally. It's a common trope in comics and movies/television. Only other one I can think of off the top of my head is Vanya in the Umbrella Academy. In both cases the protagonists create a very powerful enemy because they are fearful of their powers.
A thought on Fenrir, or at least one possible aspect of him. Ocean has mentioned a few times that Jötunn can be seen as driven by consumption, or devouring. In this vein, Fenrir being the "Great Devourer" is in line with his parentage. There also feels like there is a symmetry with linking the Great Devourer with the physical form of the animal seen as the epitome of being driven by the need to devour rapaciously.
I want a Sam now 🥺 Listening to you speak on Fenrir makes me think of how much of a powerful entity he really is. Does/could anyone worship Fenrir on his own like he is a God?
Nothing stopping any of us showing some respect and sympathy for his plight. (I mean, he didn't *ask* to be born to destroy his friend. He is in some ways a product of the impositions of society as much as he was 'born to be a monster'.) I've been thinking all day of how to add this to my life as a dog shelter trainer. Maybe a monthly gift to an animal sanctuary that works with wolves and hybrids (the way I'm leaning rn)? Or just grab a bag of dog food, or some towels and bleach, and drop stuff off at your local shelter now and then. Nice collars, harnesses, and leads are always good donations too, in case someone adopts but doesn't have something already picked out in the right size etc. But maybe the safety clip collars, not the hard buckle. Fenrir might not like some other animal being forced into inescapable bonds.
Heartache lays in my ribs knowing how badly they treated him, despised upon the gods, unloved, mistreated, yet we know how much he deserves so very better.
Great job, Splash Daddy! Vids like this are great introductory pieces for ppl who haven't seen you. I can drop this on them and say "here, check this guy out" cause it's not *as* deep as most of your stuff.
I have always felt great sympathy for fenrir, Loki, and all his children, actually. Loved the insight of all the wolves and the proper pronunciation of the names.
Apparently according to a video by Invicta a warrior would be greeted by all the dogs he ever had in life. I don’t know if you stumbled upon any corresponding information in your studies in Norse beliefs but if true then it’s sweet to hear. I have had a couple of dogs during my life, most notably bullmastiffs and currently I have a beagle and a beagle/spitz/boxer bulldog mix so I hope when I finally pass on I’ll be greeted by my three bullmastiffs, German shorthair pointer and my first beagle.
I remember when I was sedated for a medical procedure when I came to, i told the nurses that I was at a beautiful meadow full of wildflowers and I was reunited with a dog that had passed. I still leave offerings of bones and treats at her grave.
The Children of Loki have always seemed as Inevitable forces or concepts, something that even the gods fear or want to challenge yet they really cant in the myth with Utgarda-Loki mong with the Devouring fire and literal old age, Jormangandr is one of Thor's challanges Hel rules over Death and can decide whether or not the dead return to life seen in the Baldur myth. So the Children of Loki as embodiments of the end or inevitable forces that can be kept at bay but never escaped. Fenrir as a literal embodiment of the end of the gods, maybe a vengance , not even the gods can escape a broken oaths and trickery forever. And the links with Hati and Skoll by either fathering or being them, connect him with the idea of and embodiment of the end. But that can be just me with a slightly biased reading of theory and imagery
The living allegory I see in Fenrir as a Norse Pagan, a professional dog trainer, a shelter worker, and anti-BSL advocate is that if we do not learn to look our fear in the eyes and see it for what it *really* is, not what our imagination and fear leads us to *believe*, we cause our own destruction. One of the only scarring bites I have ever taken from a dog came during a thunderstorm with heavy rain. I was not yet in a state of Frith with this dog; call it a comfortable Grith. He was perpetually nervous and energetic, overwhelmed by the sounds and stink of the shelter and chaffing at the confinement. His name was Dilbert. He wanted to be the bestest boy, he just didn't quite know how, and I have patience and a sense of humor, which lead to greater understanding and empathy in most cases than my coworkers. We got along alright. Thus when it was time for him to go out in spite of the storm so we could clean his floor, I went in to leash him up... wearing a yellow rain coat (a color dogs see easily, but not one I wear often if I can help it) with a reflective silver stripe down the sleeves. This was a kill shelter. They use an aluminum catch pole regularly. He thought I was the harbinger of his death and even then only did the minimum to protect himself and drive me away. He could have ripped my throat out. Instead, like Tyr, I was bitten on the forearm, but unlike the Just One, I still have my swordhand. Dilbert went on to be adopted by someone who runs multiple miles a day and wanted a dog who would stand between her and a mugger. Last I'd heard he was thriving, and our lesson to each other lives on. I still fell shame that, in the moment it was needed most, my ability to empathize and see the world from his side failed us. And make no mistake, dog bites hurt. But the long-term effects of unbridled fear cause far more damage than a few teeth and some pressure ever will. (Look at the U.S. political system and what we have allowed to run roughshod over the majority of our citizenry for the last 200+ years.)
Where Fenrir's wolf form is concerned, I think this is linked back to his Jotunn heritage. He is at least 3/4 Jotunn after all, and the Jotunn, including Loki, were often depicted as shapechangers, many of whom preferred monstrous or animal forms to human forms. Hræsvelgr takes the form of an eagle. Thrivaldi has 9 heads. They were beings of the primordial chaos, and so were often depicted as having both more diverse forms and more fluidity of form than the Aesir and Vanir. Loki himself does spend most of his time in a form pleasing to the other gods but seems to shed it quite quickly when he is not in their presence in favor of animal forms, monstrous or Jotunn forms, or various disguises.
Funny story. I have a large 105 pound solid black German shepherd who is a former police/protection dog. He was seized by the police from a heroin dealer due to neglect and then re-purposed as a police dog due to his size and demeanor. He’s terrifying, solid black with amber eyes. He looks evil. His bite force is so strong he regularly embeds his teeth so deep into his toys I have to pry them free. He had no manners, and was aggressive towards other people and animals. When I met him I had a good feeling about him and decided to adopt him after he was washed out of the police program for some mental instability issues. I’ve had him for a few years now and since then he’s become a perfectly suitable pet who loves my kids and protects my house. I’ve always thought he symbolized Fenrir and actually refer to him as fenrir from time to time. His police dog name was Cerberus, the three headed dog who guards the gates of the underworld in Greek mythology. I think the gods sealed their fate by binding and mistreating fenrir instead of caring for him. They created an enemy instead of gaining an ally. Just like my dog, Fenrir just needed some head pats and to be fed and treated like family in my opinion.
Geri and Freki have a very strong bond and understanding with Odin; because he does not see them as pets or animals but rather equals and they treat each other as such.
My cat says, meh, you mentioned cats and the gods, then only talked about dogs. Dogs drool. Now that she's not monitoring my typing, I'll say that I have never regretted being friends with a dog. There are many humans, however, who proved faithless.
" I have never regretted being friends with a dog. There are many humans, however, who proved faithless." THIS! This is why we don't deserve dogs, but should be glad that we have them anyway! :-)
My journey started because of Fenrir. He called to me back in 2015. I concur with the statement you made Ocean they sealed their fate once they bound him. If they would not, maybe he could have been friend instead of foe. I have been obsessed with wolves since a young buck little did I know of the Wolves of Norse.
I’m a big dog mom. I have two giant sized breeds right now. My oldest is now 11 and I’m thinking about what to get when she goes so my pup will have a friend. Between the Irish wolf hound and the Scottish deer hound, the deer hound seems a bit better. That’s my next dog goal. I think I’ll name it Sam.
Thanks for calling out to All pets, I've got a bearded dragon named Ziggy "the world serpent" Stardust. She loves sunbathing and snuggling into my beard while I watch TV.
Thank you. Saturday morning in bed with a cup of tea and a video combining Norse myth and Doggoes is about as good a start to a weekend that a chap could wish for.
I love how you go back and forth between your epic retellings of these ancient stories to "good pupper deserves all the head pats". Wonderfully done. Also, my own head cannon is that Fenrir is a self-fulfilling prophecy. However, there are enough holes in it that I really won't argue if anyone disagrees. And I kinda hope I'm wrong because self-fulfilling prophecies are kinda trash writing a lot of the time. But I also have a soft spot for wolfs so I don't like the idea of a malevilant wolf who wants to kill everyone for no good reason. If he does it out of revenge and spite, I'm a little more OK with it.
I always took the look that the Fenrir story is a teaching tool that. 1 the greatest problems are of your own making. 2 that even Odin can and does mess up. This also goes into my 2nd idea around this myth that Tyr knew what the others planned and this goes to show how to act in honor.
8:56 my favorite quote from Skyrim by far is “Those who work to delay the end, may only bring it closer.” And it definitely applies here I think in my view
I've always heard "Fenrir/Fenris" means "Of the Swamp" but if you say there is some ambiguity there and "Fenris" is the wolf, then "Fenrisulfr" could be something like "Wolf of Wolves" maybe? Though "Fens" etymology from what I've researched has no correlation with Wolves which were of course Vargr/Ulv/Ulf. I've always found this etymology strange because I don't think Wolves are often associated with swamps and nothing in his lore references swamps.
Great video! Hmmm could the wolves actually be concepts of our own being? Man is certainly inheritors of these qualities ourselves. And even the All Father was greedy and ravenous in the search of wisdom and power. And that is my thought on the matter. Something for me to ponder. thanks!
I'm christian but i have friends that are pagan (heathenry and kemetic) and your videos help teach me about my heathenry believing friends beliefs so thanks in helping me understand friends when I don't want to make religious beliefs "a thing" in the friendship
The intro made it beautiful but the rest of the video is even better especially since my own 38kg of fluff is lying on me while we listen to this together ❤️ All puppers are best doggos that deserve head pats and love and I'll stand by this with you
I think Neil Gaiman's telling of Tyr and Fenrir is my favorite, and it breaks my heart, for both of them. Because Tyr was the only god who wasn't in on the joking and "fun", he held to his integrity, put his hand in, and knew he was going to lose his hand. Being someone of integrity and hurting someone and/or breaking a promise, one feels like losing a hand would be a recompense, especially to someone who you helped raise. I told an owner of a local witchy shop the way Gaiman describes(she'd never heard the story) and I had tears in my eyes.
Re Fenrir: his form as a wolf makes me consider how that works to tempt being projected on instead of the respect of being understood. He didn't need to have a form to fit in with gods, to feel accepted to be powerful, he needed to be exactly who he is.
Came here because of the algorithm and the blessed contrast between the video title and the thumbnail. Staying because I like how you work. I'm also getting tugs toward exploring Norse Paganism more despite my Irish Pagan roots (or alongside, I'm not saying they're inimical). So, a dude with a sense of humor talking about the gods of my pre-Norman ancestors? I'm in.
I love this video (I love all your work to be fair) to hear a man of your intelligence using doggo speak is brilliant also thanks for mentioning vallhalla (the film) really enjoyed it cheers
My theory on how Fenrir came to be a wolf is that Loki was in a wolf form whenever Fenrir was conceived. 🤷♀️ We already know that Loki can produce offspring with whatever appearance he takes on, so it’s a logical conclusion in my mind. I think Loki’s shapeshifting, his logic and cunning, as well as Angrboda’s size and affinity for magic created their children in varying forms and power.
Re: Fenrir After hearing that story, I have to say it might as well be a self-fulfilling prophecy. For all their power and cunning, the gods do sometimes forget to use the power of foresight. LOL. But that's what makes them so interesting: how human they are for all their otherworldly fame. I need to name my next dog Hell Pupper.
