I like to interpret Messmer's outrage that the tarnished was chosen as Lord as an example of his hatred of himself. I think the greatest tragedy of this character is that Messmer thinks he deserved to be abandoned by his mother by being the imperfect son of a perfect goddess, entwined with (in his eyes) blasphemous snakes and fire. It's easy to imagine his anger when he sees that his mother's new favorite is a being who is as much, if not more, imperfect than he is in the eyes of the Golden Order. Maybe that's what made him realize in the end, after sacrificing his grace granted by Marika and casting his soul into the darkness to fight the pretender to the title of Elden Lord, that his mother would never truly love him, no matter how devoted he is to her and her order, and so he curses her with his dying breath.
FromSoftware subverting all expectations once again. Messmer, who we all thought was this absolute sadistic and blood-thirsty demon, ends up revealing himself to be just a son who was born cursed and became a monster just to make sure people had someone to focus their hate on so that his mother could rise to power undisturbed. And once she got what she wanted, she erased every single trace of him from history and banished him in the Shadow Realm forever, where he was known as a monster and nothing else, which forced him to embrace this just to have something to live for. One of the most tragic characters in Elden Ring.
At this point I’m convinced that all the demigods (bar Miquella and Godrick) are just victims of Marika’s cruel crusade for power. Messmer is probably the most screwed over however. Sure the Omen twins got locked below the capital, but at least they weren’t forced into an honourless crusade against a people who did no wrong,purely because you were born cursed
@@featdirty1127nah, the Hornsent definitely did a lot of wrong. They tortured and stuffed all of the Shamans from Marika's village into pots just because they viewed themselves as superior. I kinda understand why Marika wanted them all dead.
@@featdirty1127 Yeah as everett says, having your own people, family, friends, be genocided and enslaved for another peoples religious practices can definitely set loose some screws that would lead to Marika's revenge crusade. Neither is good but at least she didn't start.
He should. He performed horrible acts devoid of honor and glory, stayed as ordered through who knows how long, and in the end, she hypocritically props a being that would have been no different from all those he brutalized to be his ruler. Messmer never had any agency, saw no purpose beyond one he was born and indoctrinated in, and he amounted to nothing but another sacrifice to prop Marika's design despite giving himself wholly to her.
I love how Messmer's phase 1 ost, which starts at 0:21, sounds a lot like a darker and more woeful version of the main theme/ Radagon's theme (listen carefully to the motif). It reflects his character perfectly
What a tragic figure Messmer is... Cursed from birth, taking it upon himself to be the object of fear, hatred, all so that it wouldn't fall on others, he hated his curse, his position, but he did it because he loved his mother and believed in her goals... and how did she reward his devotion? His love for her? She discarded him, once she had no use for him. Just like she did with everyone else.... There's a reason why her other self(Radagon) is the one whom was universally beloved by all of his children and genuinely tried to keep everyone together,even the downtrodden (just like what Golden Order was supposed to be, like Miriel said,all things can be conjoined). Marika created a golden age,built on blood,but then she fucked over every single person who helped her built it and, she shattered that golden age herself, because suddenly everyone needed to struggle... Because??? Well, no matter. At the very least, we can correct her mistakes. Goldmask was right,the problem are gods no better than men
Because Ranni showed everyone the flaw of Marika's world. With destined death banished, yet her own golden son slain, said son was now a festering soulless husk spreading like cancer. He couldn't be saved and also not fully die. We know that the night of the black knives happened and the shattering occured soon after. I am sure Marika wanted to remake her world and fix her mistake, but Radagon hindered her and tried to repair the damage she's done. And the greater will was also apparently unwilling to give up the world it ruled. So Marika gave away the great runes of the elden ring to her children and told them to duke it out. Anyone who didn't manage would become a stepping stone for the one who'd take her place
@@omgroflgamer2010 And that’s why you the Tarnish exists: to expose her lies and her crimes which has led to her son Miquella very selfishly wanting to usurp godhood and using every means to achieve it including manipulating his cursed brother Mohg and deceiving Radahn into believing that he too could achieve godhood by being his consort which Radahn begrudgingly accepts.
So i was fighting Mesmer with my friend watching, he was beating my a*s in front of my friend and as soon my friend left the call, the run after that I finally beat him. Like Mesmer wasn't gonna let me have this victory in front of any witnesses💀. Best boss in Elden ring for now.
Lore spoilers! I’ve been speculating that Messmer’s role in the Land of Shadow was an overseer installed by Marika to keep its denizens in check both as a form of exile for his blasphemy and a duty that she foisted on him until he will be allowed back into her arms. Turns out I was half right; While I don’t know his exact feelings on the matter when he waged war on the Land of Shadow, he was indeed tasked with lording over the land as a dreaded “devil” figure for its denizens to focus their hatred on. Messmer also hated his fire powers and has a serpent within him that he tried to get rid of but to no avail. Marika plucked out one of his eyes and placed a seal of grace to keep the snake within before having him kept away in the Land of Shadow, presumbably erasing him from history. He also sounds quite weary in his boss introduction where he seems reluctant to fight us but accepts it as his duty nonethless and second phase cutscene where he looks at the Marika statue and begs her for forgiveness before ripping his eye out. Defeating him has him curse Marika in his dying breath. Poor guy.
@@consumerjtc5835 Between incinerating everything in sight or traversing the stars, I'd still choose the latter. In spite of Ranni's flaws, she sought to cut the thread that binds everything & everyone to the Outer Gods & the contemptuous Demi-Gods warring over what remains.
Haven’t played the DLC yet guys, I’m downloading it tomorrow. How scared should I be? Update: Started the DLC. Got nearly killed by the first enemy I encountered and am currently bumbling my way around the Belurat Tower Settlement
I've seen people recommend 60 Vigor. I've personally gone with 56 Vigor, and 40 Endurance, I think. Some bosses, like Messmer, are REALLY kicking my ass. Granted, he is probably meant for late in the DLC but I stumbled upon him relatively "mid game" (20-25 hours in). However, I've felt properly scaled for some other "major" bosses, going in like this. Good luck, and have fun - it's SUCH a joy to explore the Shadowlands :)
I beat the lion on my first try. I'd gotten a few upgrades in the Shadow Realm, though. Rellana, on the other hand......... I had to use Tiche and it still took countless attempts.
First phase took me a few tries, but I did phase 2 in 1 try cos I managed to stagger him after his big opener attack, then bled him and beat on him with the hornsent at my side
Clearly you haven’t read any of the lore, marika used to be kind and bathed her shaman village in gold and ascended to godhood after being seduced by the two fingers to take revenge on the hornsent for stuffing her fellow shamans in jars and killing them. Unfortunately, she continued the cycle of violence even if she wanted to stop it once. She is very much morally grey. She event left a blessing of marika for messmer.
@@vongolamistowl Marika is one of From's best-written characters, but she really did Messmer dirty. The dude became a demon just so people could hate him instead of her while she created a new world, but once she made it she had no place for him due to what he had become to the Hornsent and ended up casting him away. No wonder he's so pissed.
@@dinorex3464 He has every right to be pissed cuz marika shunned him and try to suppress the thing he was born with because it didn’t fit with her idea of order. But you can tell she did love him based on granting him his eye seal and her blessing.
"Thosestrippedbythegraceofgoldshallmeetdeathintheembrace -of *Messmer's* -flames. " -Messmer the Impaler I absolutely ADORE how the subversion of our expectations through trailers incorporates into the experience. In abyssal woods the tarnished is shown riding Torrent, only to be left alone once you actually arrive there. The hippo is shown outdoors, so he still manages to surprise-drop on us in the keep. The rannah dancer is shown in a field, but is actually in an underground mausoleum. The commander is presented as a tree sentinel reskin while being anything, but it. And finally, Messmer is presented to be a bloodlusted monster, the death of all "those stripped by the grace of gold". So, when you first meet him, manned up and on high alert, the next thing you know... he's nothing like advertised. Selflessly devoted to his duty he is, to serve Queen Marika, his Mother. Even if it makes him a monster, undeserving of her grace. But even his devotion is self-conscious. In comparison, one of his knights - Queelign - stands in your way twice, bravely citating the vow of Messmer, while he tries to cling onto his lost purpose in this forsaken land. This vow is very much like the liberation front's hymn from AC6. While simple soldiers quote only the first line: "Coral, abide with Rubicon! ", solely to man up, their leader, father Dolmayan, is the only one to embrace its true meaning - that none of them "should roll the dice." - to not release the coral. And so, the most iconic quote of Messmer, that he says upon slaying you, as it turns out, is not spoken seriously. If you pay attention to his intonation, you'll notice that he's almost being ironic about how much this quote is repeated, letter to letter, despite how hilariously long it is. All his joy quickly flees, however, as he is forced into complete darkness in order to serve his Mother, stripping himself of his own gold, succumbing to his shunned second nature. What a boss.
Mother, have you forgotten me? Why did you abandon me? Why didn't you come back for me? are you angry with me? Didn't I do everything you wanted? Did I not lead this crusade in your name? Mother! Why did you leave me? Why did you left?... I'm alone, I'm tired if I made you angry, I ask your forgiveness oh mother, I... I will continue doing your will! and Those stripped of the Grace of Gold will find death. In the embrace of Messmer's flame... until the day you finally return to me, mother.
I really shouldn't have waited to fight him until the dlc was near its end, i ended up killing him extremely easily, likely because of all the scadutree blessings i had acquired, i also probably should've fought Midra waaaaaayyy later. I'll try doing things in a different order next time, maybe I'll find that one of the bosses i either killed in two hits to, or died in two hits from, to be my favorite. Sometimes i wish this game wasn't open world, so that there could be some more fine-tuned balancing.
