Ep. 064 - Terminal Ballistics

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On this episode, Seth is joined by Senior Ballistician, Jayden Quinlan. This piece is all about terminal ballistics; specifically, the study of how a projectile reacts when it hits a target and the transfer of kinetic energy to the target. There’s a lot of dogma and fables surrounding the topic so we thought it would be fun to take a deep dive into the subject. We hope you enjoy this educational episode!

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12 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 169

@mine8009 Год назад

Mental state is HUGE. Three years ago, I tagged a mulie doe that was clearly on edge (had been pushed by other hunters). A 287 yard shot from a 300 Win Mag (165 gr Federal Trophy Copper) anchored her, she got back up, crested a steep ridge and made a controlled decent before bedding down and dying on the other side. When we opened her up, heart and lungs were destroyed, bullet blew through and exit showed fantastic expansion. Last year, my wife tagged a mulie doe of the same age class in same area. Doe was nice and calm, and a 309 yard shot from a 7mm-08 (Hornady Superformance 139 gr GMX) anchored her and that was that. Field dressing showed perfect bullet performance, and the shot passed about an inch above the heart. The only notable difference, aside from cartridge, is that the latter doe was calm. It was the end of the day, and the area had generally had low pressure that afternoon.

@colbykinney5633 Год назад

Totally agree. I think they might taste a little better too not full of adrenaline but never did a side by side .

@santbagr36 Год назад

I have a hell of a hunting story involving a 6.5 PRC (before the 6.5 PRC was all the rage), custom built rifle from George Gardener (Tack Driver), super accurate load (5 shots less than an inch at 400 yds that my outfitter made me shoot before he took me to where the big deer were), some 143 eldx's (had killed 6 deer previously with them through a 6.5 creedmoor), and the biggest deer i had ever had a chance to shoot in my life. Anybody from Hornady want to hear it? I am a big fan of your podcasts. Please keep them coming.

@kssgcasper797 Год назад

Great addition to the Ballistics Series you’ve been doing, I will say that Jayden and Seth said they publish the expansion data, but it needs to be easier to find. I often see a minimum on the box, but not on your website for each bullet, nor do you often see the “max” expansion velocity. It would be useful for example to see a Max and Min “controlled” expansion value on the site so we could look up various bullets and products and decide if that is the bullet we want, for example I watched a Vid on RU-vid a few weeks ago where some wise guys were shooting the 110grn CX in .30cal out of 30-06 chambering and the bullets literally exploded even out to 400+ yards. Having that max speed would have kept them from loading those bullets in that chambering when it was clearly designed for much slower speeds of something like a .300BLK. That said I would have liked to see more information on the terminal impact interpretation about what the cavities are showing, he gave a quick look at it, but a 2-d photo vs the 3-d reality could offer more insight as to what is happening and what decisions we might make from that. Also he talked about tumbling “hollow tip” (BTHP) cavities, but didn’t mention the FMJ open base “squeeze out” and how that happens, that could be an interesting topic since that was reported as the .556x45mm NATO “kill” method for years.

@incendiarymindset3698 Год назад

These ballistics topics are great. I'd love to see more of these.

@johnkaraphillis754 Год назад

Hunters/shooters are so much more knowledgeable in regards to bullets and components thanks to podcasts like this one and all the Hornady podcasts. Now if I can get my rifles to shoot the ELD-X!

@laxwyo1 Год назад

He's mentioned several times that Hornady publishes velocity ranges their bullets need to perform but I can't find that info anywhere. Maybe get that somewhere on the website?

@plstein20 Год назад

Really enjoyed the visuals of how the different bullet types behave. Was wondering about how the cx compared to your eldx and then interlock on that front.

@ronws2007 Год назад

Excellent episode. Being a hunter, I appreciate the terminal ballistics. As they say, target shooting means getting through some paper, regardless of distance. And rifles can be built for that purpose can be great. As opposed to hunting at various distances. I have been hunting for years with .308. And the places I have hunted for whitetail do not offer the longest of shots. It can vary from 71 yards to 225 yards and any .308 out of even the cheapest rifle and can do it. Especially my TC Compass II, which shoots 1 MOA and less on the first three shots. Actually, it averages 1 MOA on extended runs of fire but the important part is that it hits what I aim at in the first and second shot, which is key in hunting. Now, I have the 7 mm PRC and I want to get used to that so that when I do get a chance at elk and mule deer, I am trained up for it. And, for that, I am using the 175 gr ELD-X. I have seen a guy bring down a moose with 6.5 Creedmoor with 143 grain ELD-X, in one well-placed shot (Howa 1500 with a Burris III Eliminator scope on it.) I appreciate the story below of how a perfect shot through both heart and lungs can still allow an animal to wander a hundred yards or more, not realizing that it is not breathing or pumping as well. And then, tired, it lays down and expires. Which is why you don't immediately chase after the shot. Give the animal time to lay down and expire and you won't have as far to go.

@skullwerx Год назад

Great podcast about a topic more people need to learn about and understand. I would like to see a podcast relating to this diving deeper into bullet construction and comparing bullets and gel tests to show terminal performance as well. For example comparing a VMax to an ELDM to an ELDX to a Mono and so on. Thanks guys keep up the good work.

@hornady Год назад

Thank you. Great Idea!

@daveknowles3055 Год назад

Another great podcast. Very informative and really helpful for both reloaders and factory ammo users. I'm not sure if I like the info presented here or the two podcasts on shot sample size better. You have definitely upped your game with the last few podcasts. Thanks for the information you present and the easy to understand explanations.

@Joao_pereira.38 Год назад

Good podcast as always In my experience I like to use bonded bullets or monolithic. I’m from Europe and wild boar and red deer are my main species to hunt. I used a 300 Win. Mag. for a long time, and you can get way by using more fragile bullets like the SST. Recently I bought a 6,5x55 barrel for my blaser r8, and the 140 sst don’t perform like I expected on bigger boar at long range. On small calibers I prefer to use bonded or monolithic bullets, at long range you will have better penetration. For my style of shooting( high shoulder shot) the bonded/monolithic bullets are the best. On my 30-06 I use the sako bullets, the powerblade (170grains) On driven hunts the angle of the shoots it’s not always perfect and de bonded/monolithic bullets will penetrate deep

@ivanmcknight1691 10 месяцев назад

Awesome information as always. I hand load all my own ammo for the reason of accuracy in a hunting purpose only. I recently switched my load to the 162 ELDX in my 7mm Rem mag. I have yet to shoot an animal with them but should have the opportunity to do so this year as I travel to OK. I can tell you they are very accurate and I'm running them at 3013 fps. Thanks again for the awesome show.

@steveskolnick3060 Год назад

Thanks guys, I really enjoy all the podcasts!!

@hornady Год назад

Thanks for listening

@workmansolutions5674 Год назад

Great podcast fellas! The visuals are very helpful as well. I do appreciate the ELD-X vs MATCH bullet discussion and the design intentions of each, to include the limfacs of the MATCH. I also appreciated the BTHP discussion. I am about to go test the 212 ELD-X in Africa! Thanks!

@BRADASSOFFGRIDHOMESTEAD Год назад

Best podcast out there and I'm glad it's on RU-vid!

@hornady Год назад

Thanks for listening

@jonathanmitchell3733 Год назад

BRILLIANT Podcast/episode. I can't ever overstate the importance of the facts discussed in this episode.

@hornady Год назад

Thank you!

@paulgroniger4494 Год назад

One of my favorite topics and one of the most informative episodes you have produced to date, thank you. Two quick comments. First, I always do a thorough postmortem examination of each animal I harvest (varmints excluded) and the more I see the more I understand there is so much more to the terminal end of each shot. I have one of those “same shot each year” locations for whitetail you described and using the same round at effectively the same distance, terminal results vary… It is dependent upon individual animal physiology and temperament as much as small variations in shot placement. Second, I prefer the high shoulder/incapacitating shot too so I don’t have to be concerned about a shot whitetail’s final run taking it onto a neighboring property. But I have had to put a second round into more than one animal that appeared for all purposes to be permanently down but was somehow able to overcome the initial shock and try to rise to its feet (see item one above... might be the animal might be a minute variation in bullet impact location). Thanks again guys, I thoroughly enjoy the Hornady Podcast!

@hornady Год назад

Thanks for tuning in!

@Sanquinar Год назад

If you ever do a follow up video, I think it would be interesting to talk about the effect impact velocity has on the damage done by the temporary stretch cavity, and how fragmenting bullets interact with the temporary cavity. Another question, if match bullets are so variable in terminal performance, why do you sell law enforcement ammo with BTHPs and ELD-Ms and advertise them as having great terminal performance, instead of loading them with ELD-Xs instead?

@johnt34aus Год назад

Just excellent explanation! Thank you!

@hornady Год назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@Sourdough444 Год назад

Awesome! Hunters are becoming more knowledgeable on the subject and this show can really advance the cause.

@hornady Год назад

I hope so!

@blairdickey6238 Год назад

Love the dig on gunsmiths... We all know who that guy "thinks he is"

@n6mz Год назад

Excellent! Thank you.

@hornady Год назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@janlindegaard765 Год назад

Brilliant and very informative. Really love the high level👍👍

@hornady Год назад

Thank you! 👍

@davidlaroche8928 Год назад

Put an EldM or EldX in the boiler room and fill the freezer. Great podcast!

@bobmccune9381 Год назад

Great job guys. Great for sales as well. Was not a hornady fan boy until I started watching. I will not hunt with any other ammunition.

@fattigla 9 месяцев назад

The "corner" episodes will always be classics

@mikeanthony8292 Год назад

Love this podcast, and this was a really interesting one. But, I can't believe you didn't talk about copper monolithics and the CX. There's so much bad information out there about monolithic bullets not performing, when most of the time it's just related to the user not understanding the minimum expansion velocity requirements of the monolithic bullet. Could you please do a terminal ballistics comparison between the ELD X and the CX, and explain why the CX is always significantly lighter for the same caliber than the eld-x. I think that information would go a long way to clear up the misinformation out there about copper bullets.

@hornady Год назад

Good idea!

@eribertoacedo9505 3 месяца назад

Enjoyed your podcast see you next time San Diego, California

@hornady 3 месяца назад

Awesome! Thank you!

@mikecessford3207 5 месяцев назад

Very interesting video, thanks. It would be great to look at monolithic hunting bullets (including difference between a CX and ECX) and how they compare to the likes of an ELDX

@jwhodson Год назад

Where can i find the operational velocity range for a given bullet?? I found some of it but it is not easy to find. Also can you look into making an all copper bullet for the bushmaster and 350??

@Herr_Suhl Год назад

So why are velocity windows for your bullets not available on the website?

@jujimbo Год назад

I miss that two. Would be very Good to know upper and lower Speed that the bullers expanderar om.

@BrooklynBowyer Год назад

I'd love to hear more about monolithic bullets and how they behave in relation to lead core. What are the benefits and what are the drawbacks? What should one look out for when reloading?

@jbcaptain11 Год назад

You need one that’s long enough to tumble or if it’s designed to expand it needs velocity to expand. Lead bullets will always expand better but cored out copper does expand pretty well. But eldx is lead for a reason. Hammer bullets or tui fs can work well too by being long and ready to tumble.

@jbcaptain11 Год назад

I shot a deer with 80gr ttsx at 360 yds. Sure it wouldn’t run far but it was still alive. that bullet at 200 yds would have expanded and done more damage vs just penetrating straight through

@mr.mr.3301 Год назад

I love Hornady but have switched to copper and I find Barnes more accurate than CX for me.

@crazydubbc7 Год назад

Hammers are even more accurate than barnes believe it or not

@chrisb9478 Год назад

Some rifles like Barnes, some like Hornady Gmx/Cx. Ans some real expensive barrels will shoot anything well

@58harwood Год назад

Well, “that’s good to know”!

@Adamhawk1994 Год назад

No one cares 😂

@fattigla 9 месяцев назад

I handloaded some barnes bullets a while back and got really good accuracy, but I get really good accuracy with Hornady factory ammunition. I use the hornady ammunition whenever I can because I like the ammo and the benefits I've seen from the 4DOF solver.

@Aaron-mn8gw Год назад

I need more .405 Win. Great vid!

@jonathanross4184 7 месяцев назад

Great podcast fellas! I disagree wholeheartedly with the need for high energy transfer, except to the extent it is required to make the bullet perform. If high energy transfer was necessary to kill an animal, bowhunters would never kill anything. If you put a bullet through both lungs, or lung and liver, and you have a good exit wound, you will recover that animal. Conversely, a poor hit with no exit almost guarantees a lost animal that you could recover with a good exit. I generally use large for caliber bullets of the proper design. Momentum (as opposed to energy) and bullet design are key. It's worked well for me.

@finalaccuracy7695 Год назад

Very well articulated. I feel vindicated in my use of certain bullets and not using others. Now I can explain it so much better and hopefully the information sticks.

@hornady Год назад

Right on!

@it_is_what_it_is_brotha Год назад

Great stuff gents!....wish there was a closer note on differences between lead core and monolithic/copper performance.

@laser_beard Год назад

hi! i love the Hornady Podcast. please add subtitles. thanks. from Ukraine with love!)

@benjaminhurt8280 Год назад

If you want English subtitles, RU-vid will put subtitles if you click the "CC" icon in the bottom right corner.

@ballisticallychallenged668 Год назад

Would love to see a video focusing on the background and development of the 17 mach2 and 17 hmr. Maybe even throw in the 17 hornet. I recently picked up a 17 mach2 and some Hdy ammo and cannot wait for spring squirrel season to start! Keep up with the great content!

@slickrick809 Год назад

Turkey season coming soon! Great podcast

@hornady Год назад

Yes! Thank you!

@JeffHenry-uo1nz Год назад

Thanks for the information, great job. Do you have any suggested reading for terminal ballistics for a deeper dive?

@jamesolson731 Год назад

Considering terminal ballistics, which would be better for Elk out of a 6.5 PRC 143 ELD-X or the 130 CX?

@Adamhawk1994 Год назад

Man I love the eld-x. If I could request a 153ish grain 6.5mm ELD-x that’d be awesome!

@J_Un1t Год назад

I would love a podcast where you show gel comparisons of eldx bullets of various calibers so we can see what we are actually gaining in tissue disruption from a 143 to a 175 to a 200/212 at various and comparable impact velocities

@REDNECKROOTS Год назад

They won't ever do that cuz then everyone would see how poorly there construction is. And how they come apart on shots closer then 250yards. The eldx are great if all your shots are over 250yards. But don't use em in the bush on 30yard shots. U will be most def wounding large body animals

@J_Un1t Год назад

@@REDNECKROOTS I don’t care about retained weight and like bullets that fragment violently. Mine have had no issues at close range, but I’m also starting them around 2800 so that may help. In short, I prefer this construction as I feel it creates the most tissue damage and have not had issues on game with it. Whether that is eldm/eldx/berger hybrid/ and this year I’ll be shooting tmk as well

@REDNECKROOTS Год назад

@@J_Un1tits just a matter of time. Eventually you will be given a less than optimal shot on a monster , and it will fail. I was exactly you saying exactly what u just said ,5 years ago. I Had used thin jacket bullets with good results, until I had to take a running quarting away shot on the biggest buck I've had in my scope ever. I did end up killing the deer but it was a miserable long chase that was due to the bullet fragmenting and not hitting lungs. Never made it to them. By luck a fragment clipped the main artery and after a long chase got ripped open more n more . It Finally dies yes but suffered bad. A good bonded bullet would have driven right in the chest and lungs at that angle and it would have ran 50yards n died. Not 2miles

@J_Un1t Год назад

@@REDNECKROOTS luckily bullets are available for both of us. I killed my personal best whitetail last year in your exact scenario without issue. What bullet were you using?

@toycollector2611 Год назад

Great video! Is there a hydraulic effect from a bullet impact? Would the shock aspect kill an animal?

@jfess1911 Год назад

Although this podcast was mostly about lead-cored hunting bullets, the recent redesign of the monolithic bullet for the 6.8 SPC (100gr CX) seems to have dramatically REDUCED effective range over its predecessor, the 100gr GMX. The older bullet would open up nicely to below 1,700fps and was considered to be effective to at least 300 yards. On the podcast about the CX bullets, Jayden made a point about the new CX bullets requiring 2000 fps to open . I had hoped that Hornady had managed to retain the lower expansion velocity from the earlier 100gr GMX 6.8 bullet, but apparently not. By Hornady's own table, this makes the new 6.8 CX a sub-200-yard bullet. Hunters are reporting poorer performance in the field. Frustrated hunters on the 6.8 SPC forum are beginning to cut the plastic tip off to expose the nose cavity to regain some effective range. Media and hunting tests seem to indicate this improves hunting performance despite reducing BC a little. The podcast about the 450 Bushmaster stressed the importance of a softer tip on expansion of slower rifle bullets. The 6.8 SPC 100gr CX operates in the same speed category as the 30-30 140gr Monoflex and 450 Bushmaster FTX, especially beyond 100 yards. I wonder if a somewhat softer tip might restore the lower opening velocity?

@DBravo29er 11 месяцев назад

Hornady needs a Trophy Bonded Tip/Terminal Ascent analog. Bonded front half, solid copper rear half. Best of both worlds.

@denisleblanc4506 Год назад

Very interesting discussion. My question is if you prefer the high shoulder and not the classic double lung heart shot, which bullet should you choose. Would you go for a monolithic bullet to make sure it will penetrate sufficiently even if it strikes heavier bone or would you still choose and ELDX and hope the bone and lead fragments still give you enough tissue disruption to make an effective kill? Will the ELDX still penetrate enough?

@danellebarnette6380 Год назад

I would go with the monolithic if that's the shot you're going for. I've taken game with the 90 grain CX with my 25-06 and the terminal performance is nothing to sneeze at! I busted both shoulders and did the typical double lung. I know it's not to be expected everytime but out of 7 deer taken with it I haven't had any run just bang flop!

@beenstork Год назад

Why doesn’t Hornady make a high bc bonded bullet like the Nosler accusbond LR. I’d love to see and Eldx bonded. The Achilles heel of the eldx is the close range over expansion/lack of penetration. I know they claim it doesn’t but I’ve see tests show otherwise and I know these tests arent 100% accurate but why not make a bonded version?

@Sanquinar Год назад

what tests?

@ianwchisholm Год назад

Great information, however i am disappointed that you completely ignored monolithic bullets, including your CX. So do you think the CX is crap?

@rascaille3792 Год назад

Thanks! Any plans for a .308 eld x lighter than 178? In my 18" ar10 the 168-155s work great. Probably the sst's are good enough for that weight.

@charltonlwalker Год назад

168 ELD-M fits the bill. That’s my primary bullet for deer hunting with my 308.

@warrenjones3408 Год назад

Interesting and informative Love the V-max on foxes and feral cat's. Any chance we will see a ELD- X at 125gn in future ? Enjoying these podcasts.

@jonathanmitchell3733 Год назад

the part with the 9inch penetration comparison is even more important when shooting at something smaller like a springbuck, At 9inches the bullet has probably already passed clean through the animal

@davecollins6113 Год назад

I've alway looked at that the bullet did its job if the critter is down, dead or not. There are times like Seth mentioned, you do not want that critter to travel, across a fence, into a swamp or ravine, then there are times, you don't give that any consideration. And as mentioned, the hit angle and how far the bullet goes thru make a difference, retained weight has retained momentum as well, and that matters vs expansion and penetration ability. That is where a partition works so well, it's not perfect either, but, it does what needs doing.

@johnl5974 Год назад

My hunting buddy shot a deer through the heart, 6.5CM at 250 yards. The deer ran about 90 yards. Because it didn't drop DRT, he traded the rifle to me for a 270 because the 6.5 is no good on deer.

@alexmason1387 Год назад

I’ve been hunting with subsonic ammo for the past 4 years (9mm, .45, .308, and 458 socom) lung and heart shots get the job done, but not fast due the lack of hydrostatic shock. The fastest death with these slow rounds has definitely been a central nervous hit to the high shoulder

@edhouse4826 Год назад

To test if an animal is dead, touch the EYE. If alive still in any way, it will blink. If not, its dead. Best check there is.

@sniperkwg Год назад

Good info. Waiting for a specific podcast on TAP (rifle/pistol).

@hornady Год назад

Great suggestion!

@jjgriffin3275 Год назад

Hornady needs to update their website and ADD ........ 1 - the distance ranges that bullet should be shot at, such as 0-300yds or 300-1000yds.... for optimum performance 2 - for reloaders the velocity range is should be loaded at for optimum performance for that bullet

@Josh-uf1rv Год назад

1. Can’t be done. Too many variables go into distance. 2. It’s already there…

@AnthonysOutdoors Год назад

I prefer an exit wound. On the chance that I didn't make a perfect shot or the bullet happens to impact slightly off a key vital spot. I'd rather have 2 holes to track the animal down than 1.

@AbsoluteTU Год назад

Hey, I really appreciate your podcast. I might not always agree but that’s the point of discussion and being open to learning. I have been using various monolithic bullets for a long time. I am interested in trying out the CX bullets on my next hunting trip. However, I’ve found my google-fu is incapable of tracking down the G7 bc info for these bullets. You’ve mentioned in your podcast how the G7 is more appropriate for BTHP type profiles. Why is it so hard to find the G7 information? Can you point me in the right direction (specifically for the 150 gr 7mm/284 CX 😉)? Thanks again,

@wyattgraham5711 Год назад

Why is the eldm rated to expand at 1650 fps?

@nomad_philosophy Год назад

Because it does

@veteranironoutdoors8320 Год назад

Because they load it in their law enforcement line, and it was tested by the FBI. Thats why you have expansion and gel test data.

@MeKnotChu6651 9 месяцев назад

So you can ethically hunt at extended ranges.

@jaredharlan238 2 месяца назад

It would have been good to see the CX/GMX performance compared and had a discussion as to when you choose that over the ELD-X.

@BrooklynBowyer Год назад

I'd also be very interested to hear the team's thoughts on what kind of discernable difference can be observed when changing between different lots of bullets and powder. How important is it really to maintain the same lot?

@josojoso1974 Год назад

What is velocity range for eld x in 30 cal?

@jamesfarmer63 11 месяцев назад

I Love Hornady too but I found a company that hand loads it's ammo and I can get loads that have higher pressures and heavyer bullets weights and solids

@jbcaptain11 Год назад

Barnes varmint grenades make a pretty good impression on whatever they hit. It’s hard to get up and run after your insides are vaporized

@johnt34aus 10 месяцев назад

Man this one is so good and comprehensive! Just for fun if i was willing to pay $100 a piece (and there is another million hunters like me)for the ultimate bullet could you make it better than the eldx and where would the research take you? Bonded?

@chazcarter2599 Год назад

Great info now I just wish the ELDX was easier to find

@MrWallaland Год назад

Great talk guys. Very interesting debate. Could you do a deep dive into the black line of ammunition? I’m left wondering why that has a bthp bullet based on your opinions here. I thought the black line was for self defend and law enforcement, maybe I’m wrong there.

@MrWallaland Год назад

I was incorrect thinking the black was an LE design. Looking at your website, this is shown as a target product.

@blakehowland7468 Год назад

That was pretty good, but still subjective and only gets us another step closer to bringing terminal ballistics towards an equal objective understanding we now have of in flight ballistics. Why aren’t we looking at the finished bullet yet? It had a measurable sd, a measurable penetration depth. What’s the sd reduction rate? Therefore energy transfer rate? Per inch? You’re looking at the wound, you’re at the wrong thing. Look at the bullet. Sectional density reduction rate (sdrr) and energy reduction rate (err) are things combined with expansion (2x etc) will help make terminal ballistics objective. At a quarter way through the 21st century it’s time. Been talking about this since 2020...where you boys at? I’m a Hornady hoe and expecting you guys to lead the way here. The first guys through the wall always get bloody, let go, time to change the game.

@morgan3688 7 месяцев назад

When you see ballistics gelatin, you know understanding is not the goal. Heart and lung tissue are not equal in density. Muscle and fat are not equal in density. Bone is hard, ligaments are tough. Fact is it is extremely difficult to make a good performance analoge that is also repeatable. You really need an if-then setup. If fur-skin-muscle-bone-lung-lung-muscle one target If fur-skin-muscle-lung-heart-muscle-fur another target And you will need have varying size and desnity of the tissues to replicate the differences between a deer and an elk and a bear and big cat.

@blakehowland7468 7 месяцев назад

@@morgan3688 if all bullets are compared in equal medium to equal standards we will be able to see all the overlap in terminal ballistics we currently have but we will be able to accurately choose and compare for all sorts of situations, we have been looking at the wrong things for answers, and so we still have hundred page threads online on the topic etc., we need to start measuring different things, starting with bullet, bullet travel, energy dump over that travel, sdrr (sectional density reduction rate) and err (energy reduction rate)...these will be in the 3-6% range if you try to crude math an example from your own recovered bullet collection, eventually we will know for an Alaska hunt the goal of best historicals will be 30" penetration with 100 ft/lbs per inch dump (hypothetical example) but for coyotes we may be looking for 7" penetration with 12 ft/lbs per inch to mimic the 35 gr Berger from a .204? we might plan a trip to Africa and be after 40" penetration with 150 ft/lbs per inch? wouldn't that be a lot simpler to do in a calculator and shorten a discussion thread and bring the collective up to a whole new level of understanding than 'just chuck a 180 from a 30 and yer good'??? yes animals are variable density lol, but predicting results can be a lot more objective than what we do now, and the best way is to build the data base and when releasing new products make sure to add that data to the data base, then we can see what to expect from any given combo for game intended, from .17 hmr p-dogs to elephants ;)

@charltonlwalker Год назад

I wish Hornady would offer a 168 grain ELD-X for 308. The 178 grain is excellent in my 30-06 but is a tad heavy in my 20” barrel 308.

@jjgriffin3275 Год назад

Energy does NOT matter. i have shot a whitetail deer buck weighing 200# at 10 yards with a 9mm handgun with hornady xtp 124, and that bullets made a clean pass thru with a behind the shoulder shot. that 9mm ammo only has like 339# energy when the industry says you need 1000# energy for whitetail. so theres that

@titomish5914 Год назад

Best option for 6.5 creedmore lead free??

@patrickschultz8820 Год назад

Barnes 127 LRX. Have dropped 4 elk in 2 years for us. Only one bullet recovered, all others passed through.

@titomish5914 Год назад

@@patrickschultz8820 nice to hear, I bought a 6.5 creedmore and looking to test it on black tail this coming season but i want to get different opinions on what kind of ammo to use

@patrickschultz8820 Год назад

I wanted to ensure my children are using lethal bullets in these light calibers, so I loaded the 127 LRX and went elk hunting. Inside 300 yards these thing are one shot droppers so far and penetration is incredible!

@titomish5914 Год назад

@@patrickschultz8820 nice, I can’t wait to see what king of results i have with my 6.5

@josiahwise6160 Год назад

1:08:41 I have a question about the “2 holes” and wasted energy discussion. Assuming we’re using a proper hunting bullet that expands as intended, do we actually see a difference with the temporary and permanent wound cavities between a bullet that blows out the off side and a bullet that stays inside the animal? It seems to me that if the wound cavities are the same then energy that’s left in the bullet and “wasted” had no real difference than one that stays under the hide

@ontarget765 Год назад

Can you do another with cx and ecx bullets please?

@mr.mr.3301 9 месяцев назад

Hornady is the best there is at solving problems. They solved the long range hunting issue with the eldx. Now let’s see if they can give me a sub 400 yard 308 bullet out of a short barrel suppressed and stay together. I wish they could solve the inaccuracy of bonded bullets.

@veteranironoutdoors8320 Год назад

I used the A tip and ELDM to take most of my deer this year and they performed head and shoulders above your eld-x and the gmx I used last year. That being said, please make a copper bullet that dosent absolutely suck. I had barnes completely fail to expand and your gmx just penciled through leaving behind a hole that was the same size as the expanded bullet, that being 3/8”

@derekedgley5074 Год назад

No mention of the CX

@libra7624 Год назад

adequate penetration where expansion is gradual through the full length of wound track and bullet nose remaining in a straight line like a nosler partition, penetration, expansion and straight line bullet path with no angle deflection like when doing quartering from any angle, also no crazy long range but tracking and chase skills seeing how close you can get and not moving back intentially to show off on camera to long of a shot bullet was designed for

@jonathanmitchell3733 Год назад

The Only reason I like finding the bullet under the skin or offside shoulder, is for a keepsake. The only thing the energy needs to do is open up the bullet and cause "cutting" damage to tissue on the way through (heart lung shot). I want that hydrostatic shock with expansion, but I only want it in the heart lung cavity, after that it must just keep on going right through so that theres more place for blood/air to escape, but not massive meat damage.

@novicereloader Год назад

As a hunter on a budget, my question is whether it is reasonable to expect similar in-flight characteristics between an ELDX and ELDM bullet of equal weight if fired from the same gun with the same powder weight? It seems like (if that is the case) I might be able to save a little money by practicing with the match bullet before confirming zero with the hunting bullet for the season.

@J_Un1t Год назад

You need to see how your rifle shoots each. The zero will likely be off slightly. It may or may not like both bullets enough for it to work. Benefit of eldx is it’s hardly more expensive than eldm anyway

@novicereloader Год назад

@@J_Un1t to be honest, I was hoping for "they're basically identical", but already knew the reasonable answer you gave was probably case. You're right about the price being on the reasonable side. Cheers, man!

@J_Un1t Год назад

@@novicereloader they might be, we just don’t know until you tell us. I think it’s a solid idea, you just may need to observe and modify zero slightly when switching

@novicereloader Год назад

@@J_Un1t if I'm able to test this, I'll post a video.

@J_Un1t Год назад

@@novicereloader remember to shoot a 10, or better 20 round zero group! (Ep.50)

@michaelkaylor6770 Год назад

Can you guys send Jayden up to my local Sportsman's and have him explain this stuff to the non-listening crowd!

@libra7624 Год назад

even if bullet penetrates deep it has to have a straight line pathway with no curves or yaw wich can make your correct aim point inalid, like in handgun hunting a hard cast flat nose generally goes in a staighter internal trajectory then a fmj and if a person is aware of possible over penetraton keeping it in mind then defense against humans hard cast flat nose is a good option if knowing whats behind a person should your life be in immediate unavoidable danger

@Mike-vk6mo Год назад

What dictates penetrating, momentum or kinetic energy?

@brianreinicke9490 Год назад

Need more 300wsm production.

@jjgriffin3275 Год назад

just throwing it out there but in a lot of instances its us the people are plainly using the WRONG caliber for the situation. no need for a 300 win mag for a 100 yd shot on whitetail, same for using a 243 at 600 yds on an elk. long story short use the correct gun and caliber for the correct situation, as well as correct bullet

@robertjackson1407 Год назад

How does the CX compare to the eldx?

@davidkrehbiel332 Год назад

At what point does bullet efficiency of today exceed the blunt force of yesterday?

@HollywoodMGB3 9 месяцев назад

Another great podcast full of excellent information. I would like to see a podcast on the point @jfess1911 made about the reduced effective ranges.

@hornady 9 месяцев назад

Great suggestion!

@hamspud35 Год назад

Is Cameo like what FrontSight was?

@mrshort2379 Год назад

I have to say this and GOD I hope #Hornady read this comment, Why not make a better 5.56/223 cartridge. I think that the 5.56/223 still has allot to offer but manufacturers have stopped trying why not take a page out of Sig Sauer's book and use a bimetal case and up the pressures using a heavier projectile in theory it should allow for a more effective cartridge with a better ballistic coefficiency faster FPS and a longer range in theory.. just say please do more R&D and don't give up on the 5.56/223 cartridge with all the modern propellants and case technology surely Hornady "can" make a more effective 5.56/223 cartridge

@DBravo29er 11 месяцев назад

Honestly, the 5.56 pressure 70gr GMX TAP load is just superb. Taken MANY hogs with it.

@timscarbrough8931 8 месяцев назад

This conversation belongs in a teen or preteen hunters education course. Maybe I miss read the title..

@user-cl7jw7td5q 3 месяца назад

As I watch this, loading 195 eldM over 41 grains of leverevolution for my 20” 308 win as well playing w 4DOF. So I’m not a fan of Hornady products at all- Blahahahaha, yeah right. Bring Randy the real gunsmith on. He’ll set you young greenhorn wipersnappers straight. Blahahahaha, no, just joking.….. you guy are all right

@ThomasRonnberg Год назад

Yeah very true, this is why i always cut the neck after each shot on a deer or moose or whatever.

@trentsnaza3372 Год назад

Dumped a buck dead in his tracks at 360yds with 140gr ELD in 6.5 Swede!!! (😱 not the Creedmoor either!!!!!!) ELD M are good hunting bullets but not precision like Laupa Scenar or Berger VLD's.

@DanL243 Год назад

We need 6mm ARC brass.

@patrickschultz8820 Год назад

Oh man, I'm not going to say Jayden is wrong about how anatomy works, but heart shots are not the best for the exact reason Jayden said,...drop in system pressure. How long has Jayden been hunting!? Keep in mind the lungs are fed by and connected to the heart, so the system pressure drop immediately and once you blow a hole/holes in the lung compartment, the animal can no longer take breaths. And once the heart is hit, the animal almost always jumps and runs, sometimes leaving very little blood trail. Lung shots give better blood trails and often the animal will only take steps before falling. Also, bowhunters aren't the only one lung hitters! You guys need to get out in the field more and away from the lab and bench. I enjoy these podcasts, but lately you guys are putting some interesting information out that has not been proven for generations by hunters that have hunted much more than you podcast guys.

@charltonlwalker Год назад

I always take heart shots and the blood trail is almost always tremendous because it is lower in the cavity and blood spray is immediate.

@patrickschultz8820 Год назад

@Charlton Walker I'm happy to hear that! The longer you hunt, the more you learn. In 30 years of hunting I have observed that lung shots have given better blood trails and inspire less running. Also the lungs offer a better margin for error. If you aim for heart and dope low, you injure or miss. If I aim at the lungs and dope low, I hit the heart and lungs. Happy hunting my brother! 👊💪

@davidnave4349 Год назад

I like to come back to these pod casts and see replies. I noticed something . No real replies . Only reply to those praising you , the pod cast or agreeing with everything you said. Really ? Wow , I see how this works now.

@ethanfullerton507 Год назад

The perfect bullet will expand, not lose velocity and go straight through the animal at impact speed creating the maximum wound tract all the way through. Bullets kill by cutting and tearing vital tissue, this energy dump thing is way overrated, in my opinion. Would you want a giant wound tract from front to back, or a large wound tract at the start that gets smaller as the projectile loses velocity?

@davidpope7989 Год назад

@Ethan Fullerton... that just the problem you got to get the bullet to go through first. In my years of experience here in the Carolina killing deer here at the weight of 180 lbs. and up over 200 lbs. here I have trouble of getting that part done bullets not going through. I just lost interest in Hornady!

@davidpope7989 Год назад

Meaning the bullet separate and don’t stay together!

@ethanfullerton507 Год назад

@David Pope There are multiple opinions on terminal effect. For some, it's all about the energy dump, I agree with most of what the podcast said. Shot placement, bullet construction, and penetration are key. I switched to copper bullets and haven't regretted it since. But I'm not taking a shot over 440 yards, so extremely high BC bullets like the eldx aren't as appealing to me. I prefer the CX or other brands with copper bullets

@chadperry4021 Год назад

It’s impossible to have a bullet that expands and doesn’t loose velocity. Though I’ve seen large bore elephant rifle cartridges demonstrate the effect your describing but they don’t expand.

@ethanfullerton507 Год назад

@Chad Perry I'm aware lol I was referring to the podcast when he said the perfect bullet would dump all its energy and fall out the other side.