Thanks for letting me join you for this discussion Rebecca and Landon. Love what you’re doing with the podcast and hope this conversation is helpful to anyone who finds it.
I really appreciate this episode. One thing I have sorta landed on in my mind is the idea that if God knows me inside out, better than I know myself etc then He knows that I cannot just accept some things because it was said to me- Maybe this is from my childhood traumas, and if this is the case, then God knows it and will understand. I am now completely confident that if there is a God, then He will get me and like Kolby said, not expect me to pass some sort of test that doesn't make sense to me.
Check out Dr.Michael S.Heiser videos: God can use these to help you understand the Bible isn't the hyper literalistism of Mormonism and Fundamentalism.
I am a "de-constructed" evangelical Christian, and I also have become very comfortable with the judgement aspect of my non-beliefs. I truly believe in a loving, understanding God that will not condemn me for having a brain and thinking critically.
Can we recruit Kolby to relocate to Utah and run for Attorney General please??? We need someone as honest, ethical, and smart as him. The past 3 have been utterly corrupt (and TBM). The last decent one was Jan Graham, maybe also the last Democrat to win statewide office. Reyes must be vulnerable but I am not hearing any challengers to him yet. Or Kolby, recommend someone already here! OK back to the episode.
Thanks for the compliments, sincerely, but I’m not particularly interested in being an elected official. Oftentimes to get anything done in politics, you have to be willing to compromise things I’d rather not. I also do not squarely fit into either of the established parties right now so I’m not sure what I would even run as.
@@reddish22 Thank you for your honesty! Evidence suggests that many Americans are in that same camp. A Republic requires moral people for it to remain in existence. The uniparty and most people seeking political power are far from altruistic in their actions. Finding moral people on the left or right is an impossibility today.
@@maddexq9107 I must retort. I come from the Objectivist view and believe that reason and logic shows that all of the federal government and most of the States are infiltrated with those who loath freedom. Censorship of thought and opposing positions is rampant. Speech is eliminated if you don’t agree with the popular narrative. Congress does nothing to combat it and in fact regularly participate in diminishing our natural rights.
I remember during my college days that I took my logic class too seriously. That paved the way for me to really think about and study the LDS truth claims.
Retired Elementary school teacher. Our goal back in the 90’s moving forward was to teach critical thinking skills as part of the curriculum. Then Bush brought in No Child Left Behind which required testing at every level. Teachers were forced to teach to the test which took away from kids being given the time necessary to use critical thinking skills to understand the required curriculum!
Just starting the episode and 10m in I know it’s gonna be great. I am reminded of a college philosophy prof I had (one of my favorites) who was famous for his tangential rants and in one of them I was privy to, went off about Mormon missionaries and the claim “I know the church is true” as “epistemological chutzpah.” I was at the time winding down a six month or so period of pretty intense deconstruction, still trying to figure out what my personal truth was moving forward, and the statement hit me as such an incredibly eloquent way to encapsulate so much of my childhood faith.
Thumbs up for the family member who wanted to show a TB a movie about a different cult. That is a recommended technique. Exposing someone to a wide variety of other cults eventually can help. It just takes a long time, and companionable talking and listening, because they need the time and space and absence of arguing to figure it out for themselves.
Kolby is awesome. Great episode! Kolby last comments there on faith summed up my perspective perfectly. Faith is fine for things that can’t be tested. To use it trump overwhelming contradictory evidence is not faith, it’s delusion.
Wow. Kolby’s example from Dune of the Bene Jesuit sisters seeding their myths on distant worlds reminds me of Christianity being disseminated widely on Earth and then Joseph Smith capitalizing on fulfilling the prophecies and doctrines of that myth.
17:50 thoughts on logical fallacies The depth of my subversion is measured in Sunday morning games of “spot the fallacy” played in my head on a tab kept open in my back brain labeled “definitely not a shelf,” my favorite one being post hoc ergo propter hoc, mostly because I enjoy the tactile experience of saying that phrase.
Great show! I have watched every podcast that Kolby has been on (I believe) and he is a voice of reason in an increasingly crazy world! Hope he starts his own someday.
This was a great discussion! Street Epistemology uses these ideas and helps people think critically for themselves when asked the right questions. It is good to use the same techniques on ourselves as well for any claims. It would help you see if you have valid reasons for believing free will is real also.
When people tell you that hearing opposition strengthens their testimony, they are not simply referring to the oppositional content but the manner in which it is communicated. A mocking tone is very off-putting when seeking sincere, honest evaluation. All podcasters should keep this in mind.
It is a real victory to see people who were once LDS realize the lies. But, I really hate to see that they then go onto disbelieve the Bible and Christ’s teachings.
That relative truth example is apples to oranges. If you put an apple and orange in front of a horse it is an obvious truth that the horse will eat the apple but not the orange. The orange is safe because it is not the target of the horse. It is similar for the example. The truth is that the same environment is more dangerous to some than to others. And feelings are a poor way to find the epistemic truth, but a better way to find social interaction truths.
@@byonnoyb People working on their family tree are encouraged to use documented records. Documented records trump, "I prayed about it, I know it's true."
The purpose of family history though is to provide the church information so that they can do freemason rituals for your ancestors though… they have created this narrative where their members are responsible for the salvation of their ancestors as well as a scare tactic to keep their members faithful so they can obtain TRUE happiness after this life 🤢
I am conflicted about John Dehlin coming in and asking for $. I know what I listen to is More with Mormon ish or Nemo… why? I think I appreciate that at this point the programs are not so much about High drama although that can be there but maybe the way it is presented? Not sure. I do not have much $ but I can only support so many podcasts. I am not a routine donator but I do donate when I am taught, educated or informed.
Interesting outlook, if you value his content and have money give it if you don’t then don’t. He’s super transparent not sure why we feel entitled to other peoples time and efforts. Obviously they know everyone can’t contribute but absolutely it is ok for them to be transparent and let us know where they are at…
I agree with you about one thing . But if you go through it line by line, You will find a lot of things wrong with the book of Mormon , If not one thing.What are many that means the whole thing is wrong. Because you cannot just like you said throw it out. .Just cuz of one wrong thing but if there's many.thing. Because God doesn't make mistakes by religious standard.
For your information Joseph Smith will not meet you there at all . Because I've died and come back .He did not meet me and I asked where he was and then entity that talk to me . Said he in outer darkness as you would say an everyone else would call it hell.
If I understood Landon's question properly, yes, it's quite easy to reach a true conclusion from false (or not necessarily true) premises. All politicians are guilty of sexual assault. Donald Trump is a politician. Therefore, Donald Trump is guilty of sexual assault. Per the determination of a New York court, the conclusion is true but the premise is certainly not.
Anyone ever come forward about Missionaries sexually abusing young members out in the mission field? It happened to me but my mother kept inviting them over. The young men should NOT be put out in their sexual prime. Members trust them.:0(
I, and at least two others, saw a likely ET UFO in 1975. Is my claim false, just because I can't duplicate the sighting? I have been looking for the last 48 years, and I've seen nothing similar to what I saw in 1975, yet I saw what I saw. One thing amuses me. When people claim I was drunk so I didn't know what I saw, I just smile because I was a teetotalling Mormon at the time. And, I still don't drink or use illegal drugs. 1:16:53
Kolby only said one thing that I strongly agree with, he is no expert on philosophy. He assumed reason and logic exist and ought to be pursued throughout the conversation yet he would never be able to provide evidence for his belief in these immaterial universal realities or why we ought to pursue them. So who’s guilty of presupposing positions? He did allude to this major flaw in his worldview when mentioning Sam Harris and the impossibility of free will and therefore reason/logic on a materialist worldview. So steven pinker(child predator) can write a book claiming the world has gotten better, but according to who’s standard? If everything is just matter in motion why ought there be human flourishing as opposed to human suffering? Also laughable to hear him praise Karl popper and his lofty standard of what is true. Ok so if “all truth propositions need to be falsifiable” why should we accept the proposition that “all truth propositions should be falsifiable” when it cannot be falsified. Post Mormons need to read more Hume and less pinker/popper.
Im sure this kind of commentary helps you fight all your dissonance! Its an interesting position to be in where your time and energy has to be spent doubting your doubts not looking at evidence to find truth. When all of your research affirms what you were born into and have always believed that looks more like mental self pleasure than a search for truth. Just some food for thought. Hope the church is bringing you happiness.
I am still certain on what I wrote given you did not even attempt to disprove my points, you just tried an ad hominem and it failed. You might as well delete your original response as it was based on a false assumption and irrelevant to what I wrote.
