Pure Gold My good man. Been producing, mixing and mastering for about 15 years now and probably watched most of the videos, trick and tips out there, but you come up with stuff I've never seen or heard of before on a regular basis. I just tried the Pro Q3 vocals sidechained to the instrumental method in my last mix and was blown away and how effective it was. This sounds bloody awesome too, can't wait to try it out!!!!
This trick is great for folks mixing for artists who exclusively stick to one key, but many songs will borrow notes or chords from other keys, and I wouldn’t trust these auto-detect websites to catch that. For example, buddy holly by weezer is mostly in F minor also. It’s a very simple song in almost every sense, but even in something as basic as that, in the prechorus, the song uses a C# minor chord which is not in the key of F minor. That chord has an E natural, one of the notes we saw that you should turn down in this demo. So if I’m the client and my mix engineer puts negative gain on all the E naturals across the mix, I’m probably firing that person. Theyr reducing the impact of my prechorus by using cheap tricks and internet shortcuts instead of learning how to actually analyze my music and treat it properly. This truck works fine for top 40s style pop for the most part, edm, house, club, etc, where many of the artists don’t understand this either… but I want to mix for truly creative musicians who are pushing the boundaries of their genre, and I will never impress them with tricks like this. I’m sure this video wasn’t intended to be a “one size fits all” solution, but it was presented that way, with no mention of talking to the client, or analyzing different sections of the song to ensure that the verse and chorus are in the same key, or alternative solutions like having an instance of pro q with E natural turned down for the verses, and another instance with E natural turned up that would get turned on or off with automation for the appropriate sections of the song. My point is-as a mixing engineer who also is a musician and composer, this trick is indeed great, but is much more advanced than this video implies. In the wrong hands, it can cause way more problems than it solves. This would never work on a Radiohead song. I’m not saying don’t use it, I’m just saying… be careful, and maybe make sure your clients know you’re doing it so they have a chance to let you know about that E natural in the pre chorus before you unintentionally damage your own mix
I did think the same as I was watching.... great tip but does need care. Another thing to consider is if the track is in a mode like Phrygian, a lot of the key detector apps usually default to telling you it's Major
@@molem348 that’s true, I thought about that too, but then it hit me that even thought the websites will probably tell you that something that’s technically in G mixalidyan or D Dorian is in C major, that’s all still the same 7 notes. So I give the pushers of this trick a pass on that aspect, but you’re asking the right questions. Another concern I had with this trick is overtones and harmonics that don’t fall into the natural key pitch frequencies. Reducing the “out” notes could be unintentionally changing the tone of the instruments in a mix, like a piano for example. Some of those frequencies might be clashing with other elements of the mix and muddy it up, but if you just throw this trick on every mix because it’s being sold as a “make anything better” pill, you might piss off the piano player who invested thousands in that vintage Steinway and treated room, and then paid you to bring it to life, not to use free, untested, aggressive mix moves to try to make their incredible piano somehow sound even more “musical.” We don’t need to try to fix problems that aren’t there, and while I love some of the content on this channel, click-batey tag lines like “the pros do this on every mix” are definately confusing the message. It’s a cool trick but you gotta consider when, and more importantly, how to use it.
@@zwsh89 dude the tip it´s there, what you say it´s obvious for any mid-lvl producer... and if you are a beginner you shouldn´t even be watching how to mix hahaha but ye i got your point, obviously if a song is in more than a key dont do that, ok, tho you could then automate 2EQ´s(one for verse and other for chorus) or maybe even 1 EQ looking at both scales...no?
Exactly! Also, I don’t like the idea of websites to tell you what key a song is on or what notes don’t belong in a scale. If you don’t have enough music theory to determine these things, then this whole tip is appropriately out of reach. Also, the technique - even if used by those who know what they are doing - seems specious. Generally, non-tonal notes aren’t played, so cutting them is reducing harmonics which provide richness. If they ARE played it is intentional for spice (to go out of the key) and shouldn’t be randomly reduced. I’m thinking that there are other ways to suppress resonance. But I admit have not tried this selective approach.
@@relaxactive3545 ya that’s really what I’m saying. I’m not saying “don’t ever do this, streaky is wrong.” I’m just saying you gotta be careful. Two eqs, automating, there are plenty of solutions, you just have to already know the material you’re mixing and what’s appropriate for it. The way this trick is explained in the video implies that you don’t need to worry about that, it will just work. The problem isn’t with the trick, it’s the presentation. It’s like me saying “you can use a preset you like on a compressor for any sound and it will always do the same thing…” no, you need to know your input level, the dynamic range of the material being fed in, the appropriate output volume for the track, the harmonic content (is it a bass with lots of boomy low end, lots of sustain, and dull smooth attack, or is it a high-register synth pad playing short sticatto notes) etc. there’s almost nothing that works as a “one size fits all” mix trick
you have a great way of showing pro tips and tricks i have just apllied this rule to a song im working with that is in C Major but contains the chords G-C-D-F Maj 7 so with out highlighting the notes i have in these chords on the EQ CUT this has been a massive step up in sound in other words some of the black notes have been emitted from the EQ cut to follow the chords thank you for the tips
For those that own Soothe by oeksound, you can achieve a similar effect sidechaining soothe. I find it to be a really transparent way to do this. Trackspacer is another great plugin for spectral sidechain. Also, techno would like to have a word with your "every track has a key" statement 🤣🤣
Techno isn't really known for pianos and vocals and Trackspacer is a really limited plugin and not useful in any way for this method. Soothe is ok but you can't pinpoint notes that are not in a key like you can in Pro-Q, unless you have a method for Trackspacer and Soothe that you want to share with us?
@@hearmenow909 soothe and trackspacer will only tame the opposite of whats feeding them when in sidechain mode! But doing what streaky is showing here, is more of a specific scenario where you haven’t much control on individual elements! Bcz you are taking way so much harmonics making the sound thinner! And creating phase artifacts!
@@Mixedbyjojo355ou can do exactly what he’s showing here in sooth2 aswell just sidechain an audio source containing all the notes outside the scale to it. Just generate a sine wave in serum or sylenth and put it to the midi you want. It will tame those frequencies then
Streaky, I've been watching you for years now and you're an incredible resource. I purchased your FabFilter presets which are really useful and a huge time-saver. It feels great to support you. I'll be looking into your other offerings. Really appreciate how you're helping a lot of producers up their game.
Those scale things get my music wrong often. Also I wonder how much different this sounds to turning instruments down ~2dB and using a +2dB high and low shelf boost, given how subtle it is reducing midrange.
what he did would almost sound exactly the same if not better if he sidechain compressed the piano to the clashing frequency range of the vocals slightly , I assume what u suggested would also do the same job with better results then his comb filtering weirdo technique , Some may think Im a noob and he is a pro so he must be right , although I would simply say I have just as much experience and knowledge as he claims he has ( btw if he would grant us his real name we could investigate his credentials but because he hides it , we simply can't ) has but because ad homenum argumentation is a proven fallacy I would just ask one question to the ciritical thinker , How did any legendary engineer or producer used this trick "THEY ALL USE" before roughly 2010 's where unlimited band digital EQs with unlimited flexibility in frequency choices and q settings came on the market, how did they simply do it ? With Graphic EQ s ? very unlikely cause as we all know Graphic EQ s are fixed frequency , with all due respect teaching a techique U think would work and showing it to others is fine but advertising it in a way as if u are revealing a secret technique that every pro uses but is hidden from the masses kinda thing is just another level of .....
@@sarpyilmaz7697 Everyone's needs to stop trying to put a Bandaid on things with Sidechaining , Compression and other Plug-ins. Get the music tight first. Don't try to fix a bad arrangement or sloppy playing by having the engineer try to fix it in the mix......... Also if the singer and the Piano player are all plying in the scale of Fmin then there should not be an issue with wrong frequencies unless were dealing with a bunch of harmonic overtones which can be possibly fixed in the arrangement.... I think more of the problem is the arrangement and the lack of Good Lyrics that fit nicely over the instruments... There's more going on in this example then notes that are not in the Fmin scale.... Thx ElectricEddie 😎
@@sarpyilmaz7697yeah I’m not buying this technique. This seems like a very improvised noob technique that just seems clever because it’s different. No human ear is discerning the difference in doing this comb thing from just sidechaining out a whole band and inharmonically saturating it back in. There’s a lot more standard ways to tackle that frequency mess, easiest of which is binning that whole mess of a song. The lyrics don’t need to be slamming with the same energy and pace as the keys are doing and conversely that obnoxious synth / piano that hits overly percussively is doing nothing for the feel of the song except giving a headache. Engineering should never be used to fix bad music compositions. This is powertool chiropractor stuff
I would be concerned this could lead to some pretty nasty comb filtering artifacts in some instances tho. Seems like it could be useful in the right context but I would be very careful and make sure to listen for artifacts.
I thought it took a little life out of the mix. It sounded a bit stale to me. Maybe he just overdid it. It might be better to go through and find which are the most important notes to duck and leave some of the harmonic character in tact. I could see this being a very situational technique.
@@abrotherinchrist Agreed! It sounded much flatter when the eq was turned on. I'm sure in some situations this may work but there are many techniques to deal with masking that work better in my personal opinion. As you said, I would find the specific frequency range that was causing the masking and treat that to solve this problem rather than pulling out the frequencies that relate to the key of the song. I can just image the phase issues this technique would cause as well hahaha!!
I would just use the Q3 mix control to wind it in. Mastering is always about subtleties. Q3 would not make artifacts really, that's the wrong word. It may sound like a comb if exposed but on these stems it works fine.
@@pigknickers2975 Wait, you think Q3 is incapable of creating artifacts? What exactly do you think an artifact is? The sound of comb filtering is an artifact lol. Also, what does sound like a comb mean? Just curious...
do you know mr bill? its more about production and sounddesign but also some mixing tricks. he is my absolute favourite youtubetutor and i learned a lot from him.
*Streaky* this is cool, and fascinating to me because I was once asking Izotope if using their Master Assistant to reference another track would be impacted by the reference being in a very different key than the key of my own song being mastered, and they agreed it does make a difference. VERY cool that you created the FabFilter ProQ presets. Just bought it. Thank you for the deal!
Maybe using something like Wavesfactory Trackspacer would be better for this problem. This seems like a way to create some nasty comb filtering. But that's only my opinion. Love your videos.
maybe it will work for simple melodies like this that have 0 changes over time but with complex chords that constantly change and modulations, I wouldn`t do it. Sage Audio uses this trick in almost every video
You don't need presets for every key, just a minor scale and a major scale, then just drag it to whatever key you want (select all nodes and drag them in the piano display, they will snap to an exact note as you move the entire selection).
This is fine if your track is all in the same key and uses a simple chord progression, and you want the end result to sound samey all the way through. (Like dance music does) I challenge you to apply this to a track with slower guitar/piano and vocal progressions, where the focus is less on the beat and more on the nuanced listening experience. The mantra is do no harm, but you'll be taking away frequencies that make the 2nd and 3rd harmonic speak to the listener. Those clashes are super important in the relationship the listener has to the track. For example, if you Q the key frequencies and then then play the tonic (I), it will sound 'musical', but for The next chord the IV and the V (for example) you've Q'd frequencies that are not cadent to those chords, and so you lose the essence (harmonic interaction with the tonic) of those chords, until you return to the tonic. So effectively your emphasising the tonic, but in so doing your also removing the dissonance that could be important for the feel of the track, that the artist intended to portray (whether they knowningly intended it or not [this one of the reasons why a song is a hit or not, imo - why does song A speak to volumes of people and song B does not]) So im my humble opinion: you're taking away from the track and doing some harm in the process. 🙏 I love your stuff, and continue to listen and apply your advice all the time to my mixes and masters. But I feel i had to raise this one with you, as a musician to the mix engineer. 🙏
You're awesome! Ty sir for sharing with us. I watch everything u upload lest i miss out on the gems you're giving freely. Your Mixing Accelerator Course is also awesome. ❤
Excellent little tip. You can probably get away with just saving two presets (Cmaj/Cmin) and then transpose up and down to match the key of the song. Easy as pie with the Pro-Q. Good stuff 👍
Streaky !! Yo a G.O.A.T...everyday yo i get to learn n know new techniques that have seen n never heard of!!Yet the tricks are mind blowing ..thanks streaky❤
Hi Streaky, just wanted to ask about this method as it confused me a bit, im new to music production, purely out of hobby with hopes to do it proffesionally, so when should this EQ secret be used? what if the piano has a certain frequency to boost where the notes are? do you just add 2 EQs 1 just to subtract the frequencies of the notes and another EQ to do your regular equalization? if my key is F major then it means we need subtractive EQ for those notes not in the scale, on all tracks/channels that have instruments? Greatly appreciate your tutorials thank you, and thanks in advance to whomever can answer this.
So, you’ve basically eq’d and compressed all the notes that the piano isn’t playing, since they’re not in the key!! If the notes aren’t there, then you’re not eq-ing anything. However, since the eq frequency band is likely a little wider than just the ones you’ve chosen, it is having some effect on the edges of the notes that are being played. But basically, you could get the same effect by using a multi band compressor.
you are just comb filtering though right, and surely if you are doing this type of drastic cuts you should put the eq in linear phase mode? Also, I dont get why you dont just kind of work on inverting some of the notes/eq notches, and create almost an chord in the scale instead of removing non existent notes with in the scale. Please help me understand further?
So, the song is in F Minor (and changing chords mind you) and you are taking away the frequencies of the piano notes that are *not* in F Minor (and not any other chord it changes to), and that is then giving room to the vocal? Please explain the theory behind that because it sounds to me like a commercial to sell your Pro-Q3 presets. If two things clash and I want to put one of the two in front, I use things like Trackspacer with a sidechain input. Probably much more accurate as it reacts on the frequencies that are actually clashing. But by all means, try to convince me I'm wrong and this technique is much better.
I'm certain those narrow EQ bands are still affecting the notes around the ones you're ducking. To me it sounds like you're just gutting the midrange of the piano, which would of course give more space to the vocal. I honestly don't hear an improvement here, just a thinner and more unnatural mix.
Hi Streaky, Just started following you and have picked up some Great tips along the way. But something does not add up here. You say the key is in Fmin and your removing all of the notes that are not in Fmin scale. If the keyboard player knew what he was playing, and I am assuming he does. Then notes that are not in the Fmin scale are not being played to begin with.... So then whats the point in removing some of the frequencies of these notes not in the scale with the Fab Filter if those notes are not being played in the first place?? Also not sure why you're saying the paino notes are grating against the vocal, because if the piano player and the singer are both in Key there should not be any kind of Rub. Can you elaborate? Sound like the issue is more of the arrangement since it seems very cluttered....... Thx ElectricEddie .... 😎
Ok... that thought crossed my mind but I wasn't 100% sure if harmonic overtones outside of the scale would really make that much of a difference. But it seems like they may. But is it that noticeable that it needs to be removed? I didn't hear much of a difference if any at all with the before and after and I'm listening with Adam speakers. Although I gotta say I think RU-vid steps on the sound a bIt which can keep the finer points from being heard. So I don't know if that's why I'm not really hearing a difference.
The problem is you're starting with a crappy over compressed wall of sound right off the bat. Get rid of the synth in the background, ditch all the compression on the vocals, and you won't need this "trick" at all
Question: Are your Vocals and Piano on the same track? Would be cool to know whats in INSTRUMENTS and whats in MELODY - I guess everyone has a different approach on categorizing that :D
Superexpert mixing guy recommends to check the key of the song on some web page :) Dont get me wrong, I like your work a lot. But better tip than this would: go and learn some basic music theory and eartraining. You cannot be expert mixing guy without some knowledge of scales or harmony…. just my opinion.
Can someone explain why frequecies are removed that the voice is NOT singing? I would have expected that those are removed that the voice is also using but that would be the ones within the scale.
That's some mad stuff Streaky, nice. I have a piano up here in the flat and sometimes use the keys to figure out which notes i don't like in a sound and EQ the sound that way. Kinda similar, kinda :)
Oh my god, this is pure gold ... for like ... comedic purposes. Sorry. You're essentialy doing dips to the material that: - won't be active when singer glides from note to note (cause you made them very frequency specific) or when they do vibrato (cause you made them dynamic) etc... - will affect just the in-key notes. Any other rumble or out-of-key notes in the material will stay loud and clear, still clogging up your vocal... - will totally f*ck up frequency-phase response of signal you apply this to as you do it in "zero latency" mode in Pro Q3 The difference you hear is a bit of attenuation and that phase mess you've done. You can achieve much better restult by using normal multiband compressor, less crazy dynamic EQ or resonance supressor (Soothe, DSEQ...) if you want to be really surgical. Or just learn to arrange and mix properly so you won't have to dynamically fight masking in the first place.
Thank you for the wonderful explanation and information from a wonderful person... My question is why did you add a key (F#) from among the keys and reading why from the site did not include this note?It F was just not F# please explain ❤❤
It's different. Don't really think Soothe 2 is the tool for frequency masking and clashing anyway. Trackspacer would do it much more transparently for example. This is a cool trick but I don't think this one's for me.
@@ramspencer5492 soothe 2 is incredible for masking… the side chain is amazing you’d just literally drop soothe 2 on the piano and add the vocal to the side chain and it would do an amazing job 💯 haven’t taken a close look at trackspacer but I will do 😎👌🏻
@@ramspencer5492 here's what I think : The input that affects Soothe2 is not a musical scale, it's audio from the channel itself or another channel. Soothe2 can reduce resonances that are in the scale of the song. So it's a similar job, but use for a different goal
Isn’t Soothe2 more accurate then? Rather than theoretically reduce out of scale notes, needed or not, it reduces the actual clashing notes. This seems preferable to me.
Streaky! I've watched so many of your videos and even going back through, I really wanted to try to find a good video on backings and adlibs, how to get them to sit in the mix properly. No one does it well on youtube, I've learned how to use Multiband compression to assist helping vocals sit right, but how do you properly differentiate your backings from your main vox from your adlibs within the beat??? Would be amazing to see you do a video on this I really hope you see this
Hmmm, i'm curious about something. Whats the advantage, if there is any, of attenuating every impotant frequency of the key all the time against using a sidechain to atenuate only when it clashes against the vocal?
I guess due to freq curves , it may somewhat also slide into the scales fundamentals....Like a eq/autotune.... Because otherwise , the scale chosen, and by selection of what isn't , I still imagine, the frequencies of instruments still fight and add .. However.. I imagine there's a follow up if you use this technique.. Next vid I guess,,,
What vocal and what piano? It sounds like synths and an auto tuned fake vocal. Key? This is for non musicians. But it's a cool trick for this type of sound.
The only issue is that this track is not in F minor at all. I don't know how those sites are detecting keys, but the result, at least in this case, is completely off. This song is in B flat minor, or A# minor (depending on how one would want to write it).
