#ExJW #Apologetics #Bible In this Chicken Scratch, I approach Colossians 1:15, and what "Firstborn" means. Some say this means Christ is born first, meaning he's created, other's say this means he's preeminent over creation.
I praise God for this message! You hit a home run! This message needs to be spread far and wide to whoever will listen this is truth that you put out and only the Holy Spirit can guide us into truth! Holy Spirit lead message keep it up
Well done. As you said, this is a common verse that unitarians rip out of the context to use as a proof text. Hopefully some unitarian will be honest and actually watch your video and realize that instead of the verse helping them, it actually proclaims his deity. Keep up the good work.
Can I just say, thank you!! Your videos are so spot on! I am currently “studying “ with my JW brother, and he always answers back the way you show what objections might come up in the video. It’s so great to have my points two or three steps ahead of him!!! Last time we talked, he stopped and looked at me and said. “You’ve been studying!” !!!!!! This week he supposedly is going to prove why Jesus is really the arch angel Michael!! I can’t wait!!!
You are welcome! This is why I started the channel. If you ever have any questions, need help, or even a video request, please contact me. You can find my email in my About section.
(Hebrews 1:2) Now at the end of these days 'God' has spoken to us by MEANS OF a Son, whom HE APPOINTED HEIR of all things, and THROUGH WHOM he made the systems of things. Get the connection? FIRSTBORN appointed as HEIR by God? Logically the owner cannot be his own heir. Give it some thought. JWs teach the truth. Others make excuses to avoid the truth.
I just stumbled across your channel! And love your work and how you explain everything! It is so interesting how the very scripture that is used by non-trinitarians to disprove Jesus being God or to prove Jesus was created is actually the one that can be used to prove Jesus was not created and in fact, is God. Just reading the whole chapter proves Jesus is God! Context is so important!
Great Job brother! I always love how verse 16 ends with FOR HIM. If he is created then creation is being held together and is created for a creature. It doesn't make sense!
@@Scott23882 your wrong gavy and it’s sad witnesses won’t have real conversations but hide behind fake accounts. You don’t believe it’s the truth by your actions. I’m not going to waste my time.
(Hebrews 1:2) Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he (ie God) APPOINTED HEIR of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. The OWNER cannot appoint himself as his own HEIR. That wouldn't make any sense. Why is Jesus appointed HEIR by God. Because he is the FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION (Colossians 1:15). See how simple the TRUTH is.
Love your channel man thanks for sharing. I have had plenty of debates with jehovahs witnesses and I am waiting to bring them to the gospel when they come to my doorstep again, I’m just waiting for them to show up so I can preach the gospel tune and show them the truth. Not only that but I also try to use their new world translation to make my point. It’s made several Jehovah’s Witnesses upset by me doing that, I’m not trying to set them I’m trying to bring them to the knowledge and truth. When they wanna lie and say that Christ Jesus is Michael the Archangel I have a Sheldon from the New World translation that he has it that’s how I get up every single time and try to ask him questions based from the New World translation to get them to think about things. The biggest thing I’m going to ask the next time is if they believe Jehovah God is the first and the last, obviously they’re going to say yeah, then I will go over to Revelation chapter 1 verse 17 and 18th and say OK in your New World translation you just verified to me that Jehovah God is called first and last he say yes OK then how did he die according to your New World translation they will be completely stumped and they will stop.
Haha. I'll save you some embarrassment by explaining that to you now. Alpha and Omega/First and the Last mean different things depending who it is applied to. At Isaiah 44:6, Jehovah says: "I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but me." Here Jehovah highlights that he is the everlasting true God; besides him, there is no other. (Deuteronomy 4:35, 39) So here the expression "the first and the last" has the same meaning as "the Alpha and the Omega." "The First (pro’tos, not alpha) and the Last (e’skha·tos, not omega)" occurs again at Revelation 1:17, 18 as you say, and also in 2:8. In these verses, the context does indeed show that the one referred to died and later returned to life, so we would NEVER claim that this was Jehovah. These verses cannot refer to God because he has never died. (Habakkuk 1:12) Jesus (who is not God) did die and was resurrected. (Acts 3:13-15) He was the FIRST human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life in heaven, (Revelation 1:18; Colossians 1:18) and because it is Jesus who performs all resurrections since his resurrection, (John 6:40, 44) he was the LAST one to be resurrected directly by Jehovah. (Acts 10:40) So THIS is the context in which Jesus is "the First and the Last." Not the same as Isaiah 44. Don't get all hung up the same words and titles being given to more than individual.
@@mattgardiner614 Your problem is that the 'Alpha and Omega" in Revelation 1:8 as "The Almighty". Then the SAME Alpha and Omega speaks to John. There is no change of character, this is just JW gymnastics to avoid the divinity of Christ, the Alpha and Omega, who was, and is, and is to come, the Almighty. Since you're obviously a JW, I would like you to acknowledge the fact that the WT constantly misrepresents the nature of the Godhead, or "Trinity", when trying to argue against the Biblical teaching that Jesus is God. You see, you are under the false assumption that "God" only refers to the Father. In the true Christian world, "God", can refer to the Father, or can just refer to the Godhead in its entirety. So let's get the definition of the the word you know as "trinity". It is NOT 3 gods in one godhead. It is explained this way. There is ONE God, Who exists in the form of 3 distinct persons, or personalities. Each person is distinct from the other. The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and each one is separate in "rank" from the other, having different "roles" as you would say. YET, there is ONLY ONE God. While . The Bible clearly teaches the divinity of Jesus Christ. (John 1:1, 10:30-38, 12:45, 14:7-10, Col 1:15, 2:9, 1 Tim 3:16, Hebrews 1:3, 8-12, Rev. 19?16, and many more) Secondly, "Jehovah" is a man-made name using vowels from the words Elohim and Adonai, in order to form the Hebrew word, "Yahweh". Yahweh is the God of the Universe. Jesus is 'part" of Yahweh, making Him Yahweh, since there is only ONE God. You need to run from the WT. Why? Because they have placed themselves between YOU and GOD, making themselves the "One" you need to go to. Jesus said, "Come unto Me....". He didn't say go to an organization. That is what the WT teaches. It also teaches Jesus is not your mediator. If Jesus is NOT your mediator, then you have no hope. Which brings up another oddity. JWs constantly want to say that the word "Trinity" isn't in the bible, so it can't be true. Let's explore that in light of the WT's teachings. Here's some words JWs throw out there that aren't in the Bible. Kingdom Hall Earthly hope (please explain this one because where does our hope come from?) Pioneer Auxiliary Pioneer Circuit Overseer Publisher Jehovah's Witness JW.org ministerial servant None of these words or phrases are explicitly in the Bible. Yet JWs don't deny their existence. Since the Bible teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and there is only ONE God, then what is the problem with using a Latin word, "Trinity", to describe the nature of the "being" that is Yahweh? Paul uses the term Godhead in Col. 2:9. By the way, what is "ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD", if it's not God Himself? All that God is, HIs essence, His nature, His very being, is wrapped up in the person of Jesus Christ. Amen. The entire New Testament is about Jesus, the Son. He is Jehovah.
@Matt Gardiner, Great explanation. Biased persons will never accept this. They prefer their own traditions over the truth. For instance, in Revelation 1:8, although the “alpha and omega” is in reference to Jehovah Almighty God, tradition followers understand this is in reference to Jesus Christ. If they only were able to read scripture in context. In Revelation 19:6 it clearly states that God Almighty is Jah or Jehovah and *not* “The Lamb” or Jesus Christ.
@@jwdefensor8055 Your problem is that you won't let go of WT doctrines that deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Jesus is talking in Revelation 1:8, and identifies himself as "The Almighty". The reason this works is because we KNOW God is a TRUINE God; Father Son and Holy Spirit. But I know you, as a JW, will not even entertain the idea that you just can't understand God. All 3 persons are called "God" in the Bible, and since there is only ONE God, it doesn't violate Scripture. There are not 3 gods, but ONE God, in 3 persons. Each has their own unique personal identity, yet each are equally God in nature and essence. It is the JW that clings to doctrines of 8 men in New York, stemming for one guy in the late 1800's. And if you believed what Russel taught back then, today? You'd be disfellowshipped. It's all easy to read and understand, as long as you don't read WT magazines instead. You should really put your own organization to the test to see if they really are the "mouthpiece of God" as they claim. Failed prophecies over the last century should be very telling, as well as all the lies they are telling today, but I guess you can just sluff it off as "theocratic warfare", yes?
@@jwdefensor8055 Thank you for your words. Sorry, I was travelling and did not have the opportunity to reply until now. Agree with your comments re: traditions.
You are right on the money, but there's a few things I would expand upon. In the video, you placed emphasis (via the pen tool) on 1:6 and 1:10, which alludes to the Genesis mandate to “subdue and multiply,” therefore, by the time you make it to 1:15 and you read, “He is the image of the invisible God,” it should be of no surprise that Paul is also drawing upon the Genesis mandate (Gen. 1:26) where Adam is spoken of as, “the image of God.” Paul is alluding to OT themes that carry with it the idea of “dominionship” over creation. And here, he is weaving themes from the Genesis mandate to, “subdue and multiply” (Gen. 1:26-28) together with Ps. 89:27. In the ANE, King Esarhaddon is addressed as, “the very image of Bel” (“Letters from Assyrian Scholars to the Kings Esarhaddon and Assurbanipal”). In Wisdom 14:15-21, the distant king is represented locally through the presence of his “image.” The Macedonian (Ptolemaic) king Philopator was referred to as “the image of god.” In Themistocles 125, the Persian king is also referred to as, “the image of god.” Paul’s use of the Imago Dei is consistent with this Ancient Near East practice of referring to kings, authorities, or rulers as the “image” of the one whom they represent. Thus, here in 1:15, Paul is giving us his “royal ideology” by fusing Gen. 1:26-28 together with language about Israel's king, Ps. 89:27 (“firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth”). I would probably even take this one step further, and suggest that the creation language in 1:16 about God creating “in” and “through” Christ is derived also from Gen. 1:26, “Let Us make... .”
God used Jesus to get creation into being. That is why all things were created THROUGH Jesus. Heb 1:2 (Proverbs 8:30) Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time; Jesus was never a creator nor a co-creator. Jesus was a means of God getting something done.
@@tongakhan230 Of course, everything was created through Jesus, but by that we really mean ALL THINGS. Not just some things. What does that mean exactly to be created "through Jesus"? Heb. 1:10-12 tells you. It uses language taken straight out of Ps. 102 (which echos Ps. 104:4-5, also cited in Heb. 1:7) and Prov. 8:29. THAT is what it meant that God created "through" Jesus. And it is exactly THAT which is nowhere said of wisdom. In Prov. 8:29 who is the verb being attributed to? And in Heb. 1:10-12, who is the verb attributed to?
@@thedailygripe2504 : It seems that what THROUGH means is not clear to someone. Jesus never had any power of his own to do his miracles. Peter's words: (Acts 2:22) “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ was A MAN publicly shown to you by God through powerful works and wonders and signs THAT GOD DID THROUGH HIM in your midst, just as you yourselves know. Similarly, Jesus was the MEANS by which God brought creation into existence. Logically, Jesus' own creation was an exception. That is why Jesus is called God's only begotten son. Jesus' own admission at John 3:16. It means one brought into existence directly by God.. And FIRSTBORN of all creation (Col 1:15). All other sons of God came into existence with God working THROUGH Jesus. BTW Sons of God are the ANGELS (Job 1:6).
What would you answer to a jw that argues that verse 18 when it says "first born of the dead" means BOTH, His preeminence over the resurrected AND that He was the first one to resurrect for eternal life. They now argue that we don't have to choose between both meanings but that both apply. They also say that He is preeminent over creation as the first created as well as he is preeminent over the dead as to be the first one to be raised to eternal life. Please help me with this one ! thank you and God bless you.
Good question! Well, technically he was the first to be raised to eternal life, Ofcourse he did that himself (John 2:19-22) But as for the meaning in Col 1:18, I think it’s important to see the context of surrounding scripture. In it he’s describing that Jesus is the head of everything including the dead. Giving the use of the Greek word here and how it’s used, Paul is trying to tell us that he’s preeminent. Witnesses try to squeeze the first resurrected to try and use the “first and the last” and move that to him being the first and last resurrected by Jehovah, which doesn’t work (1 Corinthians 6:14). Plus you have many scripture where Paul makes known that Christ is the one to resurrect the dead, that he’s the ultimate judge. So it definitely leans to it being about power over the dead. Hope that helps!
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the FIRSTFRUITS of those who have fallen asleep in death. If Jesus is the FIRST, others logically follow. This is talking about those, who like Jesus, are resurrected to spirit life. Verse 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the FIRSTFRUITS, afterward THOSE WHO BELONG TO THE CHRIST during his presence. If Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all Creation (Colossian 1:15). Logically other sons followed his creation (Job 1:6). Thus, if the context is given, there is no need to use what FIRST means as given in other contexts to override the truth. If a statement such as 'Johnny is the FIRST IN HIS CLASS' is made, it is obvious as to what FIRST means. It has nothing to do with what FIRST means in a beauty contest, or any other context.
Hi again..I don't mean to sound needy. . But can you do a video on hellfire? Again I appreciate your videos and I'm recently awake from the jehovahs witness religion
Col 1:15 - Firstborn of all creation. the firstborn of the sheep, means the firstborn still belongs to the group of sheep. so the firstborn of all creation means the firstborn belongs to the group of creation
@Thoska Brah There is no OVER in Col 1, also the CONTEXT shows he is PART of CREATION. The firstborn of the DEAD, means Jesus belongs to that group and now he has risen. And same with FIRSTBORN of all creation, Jesus belongs to that group of creation. Jesus is NOT the Creator, there is no Bible text that says that. Jesus was used by GOD as an instrument or channel in the act of creation, the Bible texts use DIA which means a channel of an act. The writer uses a pen to write, the pen is the channel and the pen is NOT the writer
@@MR-gx3gc MICAH 5:4 - JESUS WILL STAND UP - He will stand up and shepherd in the strength of Jehovah,e In the superiority of the name of Jehovah his God. And they will dwell in security,f For now his greatness will reach the ends of the earth.g DANIEL 12:1 - Michael will STAND UP, BOth of them ARE PRINCE/PATRON ANGEL/LEADER (Hebrew word for Prince-Patron Angel, Leader) , and as Jesus said we HAVE ONE LEADER, Jesus Isa 9:6 the word Prince in the Prince of Peace means PATRON ANGEL also Leader. WHO IS the ONE LEADER that we have? Jesus. Now, that same exact Hebrew word was used for Daniel 12:1 which is used for Michael the Archangel. So are you saying there are MANY LEADERS now? The word GREAT in Daniel 12:1 means GREATEST and HIGHEST acc to the original Hebrew word. If Michael is another archangel so basically you are saying that Michael is GREATER than Jesus and thus making an ANGEL HIGHER than Jesus as Prince. So you are wrong From the Lord was this (this is referring to the chief cornerstone who is Jesus) , the word WAS is egeneto (made or came into being) - Matthew 21:42 and the exact Greek word used in John 1:3 - MADE, egeneto (came into being) - JESUS WAS MADE/CAME INTO BEING FROM THE FATHER , yes, Jesus was MADE/CREATED!, See also Acts 2:36, Heb 1:5, 1 john 5, john 5:26
@Thoska Brah MICAH 5:4 - JESUS WILL STAND UP - He will stand up and shepherd in the strength of Jehovah,e In the superiority of the name of Jehovah his God. And they will dwell in security,f For now his greatness will reach the ends of the earth.g DANIEL 12:1 - Michael will STAND UP, BOth of them ARE PRINCE/PATRON ANGEL/LEADER (Hebrew word for Prince-Patron Angel, Leader) , and as Jesus said we HAVE ONE LEADER, Jesus Isa 9:6 the word Prince in the Prince of Peace means PATRON ANGEL also Leader. WHO IS the ONE LEADER that we have? Jesus. Now, that same exact Hebrew word was used for Daniel 12:1 which is used for Michael the Archangel. So are you saying there are MANY LEADERS now? The word GREAT in Daniel 12:1 means GREATEST and HIGHEST acc to the original Hebrew word. If Michael is another archangel so basically you are saying that Michael is GREATER than Jesus and thus making an ANGEL HIGHER than Jesus as Prince. So you are wrong From the Lord was this (this is referring to the chief cornerstone who is Jesus) , the word WAS is egeneto (made or came into being) - Matthew 21:42 and the exact Greek word used in John 1:3 - MADE, egeneto (came into being) - JESUS WAS MADE/CAME INTO BEING FROM THE FATHER , yes, Jesus was MADE/CREATED!, See also Acts 2:36, Heb 1:5, 1 john 5, john 5:26
Jesus is called the “firstborn” (πρωτότοκος) in Col 1:15. The word is found in both the Old Testament (Greek Septuagint) and the New Testament and is used both chronologically _and_ positionally. Chronologically: When this word is used chronologically, the meaning and emphasis is on birth order. For instance, in Genesis 35:23 Ruben is called the “firstborn” because he was, chronologically, Jacob's first child. Likewise, in 1 Samuel 17:13 Eliab is Jesse’s “firstborn” because he too was, chronologically, Jesse’s first child. Positionally: “Among the Israelites the firstborn son possessed special privileges. He succeeded his father as the head of the house and received as his share of the inheritance a double portion. For that reason, sometimes the meaning of the term is figurative, denoting priority or supremacy.”(1) So the word “firstborn” can be used positionally, and when it is, the meaning and emphasis is on the _position_ of the person-it is a title or rank. For example, “the firstborn of the lowly” (NWT) in Isa 14:30 is figurative, meaning that the poorest of the poor-a position. Then there is Ruben who, though he was chronologically the firstborn, because of sin he lost his _position_ of firstborn and the honor, favor and rank that was his because of his _position_ was given to Joseph (1Ch 5:1). Likewise, although David was the youngest in his family and the second king of Israel, Jehovah says, “I will place him as firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth” (Psalm 89:27 NWT). Clearly the word “firstborn” can be used as a positional title. Note: Psalm 89 was/is also considered messianic. So the question before us is, Is “firstborn” in Col 1:15 being used chronologically or positionally? Paul makes it clear by the context of the section that he intends for the word to be used as a title in a positional sense and not chronological. First, “if Paul wanted to say that Jesus was God’s first created creature, we would have expected him to use the adj. πρωτόκτιστος or πρωτόγονος (‘created first’) or πρωτόπλαστος (‘formed first’) instead of πρωτότοκος and v. 16 to continue the thought ‘for all other things were created in him’ ( ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐκτίσθη πάντα τα ά̓λλα).”(2) But Paul didn’t use πρωτόκτιστος or πρωτόγονος (“created first”) or πρωτόπλαστος (“formed first”), he used πρωτότοκος (“firstborn”) which can be used positionally as a title. Second, in v. 16 Paul gives the reason Jesus is called the “firstborn.” He says, “ὅτι,” a Greek word which can range from a weak “for” to the stronger “because.” Murray Harris points out that here ὅτι is the stronger notion, introducing the reason for Jesus’ superiority over creation: “Because _by_ (εν) him all things were created.”(3) Jesus is not “firstborn” because he was the first created, but rather, because he is the creator of all things. He is the hands on creator, the one who did the work of creation. The NWT translators inserted “other” into the text because their theology forces them to translate “firstborn” chronologically. But had Paul wished to convey chronology he would probably have used a different word than πρωτότοκος and continued his thought saying, “for all other things were created in him” ( ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐκτίσθη πάντα τα ά̓λλα) but he didn’t do that. Rather, Paul says that “by him all things were created,” emphasizing his position as creator of the universe. Furthermore, it is important to note that not only was everything created _“by_ him” but they were created _“for_ him.” Wait! Wasn’t everything created for Jehovah? Yes. Jesus is Jehovah-Jehovah the Son. Third, Paul reinforces v. 16 by stating that Jesus isn’t only the creator but he is also the sustainer of the universe-a position. Forth, v. 18 says Jesus is “the head of the body, the congregation” which is a position. Fifth, v. 18 says Jesus is “the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things.” This second use of “firstborn” could be either chronological or positional since Jesus was the first to rise from the dead in an immortal body and has the ranking position as the risen Lord above all who will be resurrected. So which is it? Paul tells us in the same sentence saying, “that he might become the one who is first in all things.” The Greek word for “the one who is first” means “to be in the first position, with the implication of high rank and prominence - ‘to be the first, to have superior status.’”(4) Just as Jesus positionally ranks above all creation-because he is the creator-and positionally ranks above the church as its head, so too he ranks above those who will be resurrected. The same type of language is found in David’s praise of Jehovah in 1Chronicles 29:11 in which he says, “for everything in the heavens and on the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O Jehovah. You are the One exalting yourself as head over all.” (NWT) Jehovah is exalted to become head over all, just as Jesus is exalted to be head over all. There is nothing in this entire section that supports interpreting “firstborn” in v. 15 chronologically. The word “firstborn” can be used chronologically or positionally. JW’s want to snatch the word from the context and give it a chronological meaning. But Paul clarifies in the subsequent verses what he means by the word “firstborn.” The entire passage is speaking about the preeminent position that Jesus has as the creator of the universe, the sustainer of the universe, the head of the Church, the risen Lord. Far from Col 1:15 being a proof text for the creation of Jesus, it actually speaks of his deity. 1) J.D. Douglas and Merrill C. Tenney, eds., “Firstborn,” in Zondervan Illustrated Bible Dictionary (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011). 2) Murray J. Harris, Colossians and Philemon (Nashville, TN: B & H Academic, 2010), ePub, Col 1:15. 3) Harris, Colossians and Philemon, Col 1:16. 4) Eugene Nida and Johannes P. Louw, eds., Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains, electronic ed. of the 2nd edition (United Bible Societies, 2002).
@Thoska, Romans 8:29 says Jesus is the “firstborn among many brothers”. I agree, *Jesus is the first one born of the group of anointed Christian bothers* . Thus showing Jesus *belongs to the group of which he is first born* . So why don’t you apply the same concept to Colossians 1:15 ?
@Thoska, Colossians 1:18, again, *Jesus is identified as the first one born from the dead* . Thus making him the first one born in the group of dead ones whom are resurrected to immortal life. So, why don’t you apply the same concept in Colossians 1:15 ? P.S: Colossians 1:18 also says that Jesus being “firstborn” is what makes him “preeminent” [Greek: Proteoun] . Please verify how Paul used “proteoun” or “preeminence” as result of being “prototokos” or “firstborn”.
@Thoska, Jehovah is *not* human, *nor* was Jesus in his pre-human life and after his human life. Hence, to be identified as “firstborn of all creation” it means *he is the first one to have been created of all creation* . In biblical language, to be born means: *to be produced, brought into existence, created* . (Compare Psalm 90:2)
@Thoska, Actually, *Jesus is the first one created* among many brothers (Romans 8:29), and also among the dead ones whom are resurrected to immortal life. (Colossians 1:18). How so ? In order for Jesus to be resurrected to immortal life, *God created a spiritual body, in order for Jesus to ascend back to heavens* . (1 Peter 3:18) And he will do the same with all those who are Jesus’ brothers, whom will ascend to heavens alongside him. (1 Corinthians 15:50-53)
The disciples of the Lord Jesus, being with him from the beginning of His ministry, without a doubt they were noticing his behavior, his preferences, the miracles performed, his teachings, his wise words and his confession of who he is. Along with all this, Jesus told them: If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also, And the one who loves me will be loved by my Father. I also will love him and will reveal myself to him. If you had heard what Jesus said there, you would probably have asked the Lord like Judas: Lord, why are You going to reveal Yourself to us and not to the world? In other words, we already knew you, is there still a need to reveal Yourself to us? It's worth thinking about, what makes you think you know who Jesus is? Is it because you know the life of Jesus and some scriptures? Or because it was taught by man who is Jesus. Have you ever prayed to the Father to reveal the truth of his Son to you? (Ephesians 1:17; 4:13) After all, the truth of the Lord will never change because of my beliefs about him. With that in mind let us be open.
At 3:45 poor exegesis yet again! Col 1:16.- “by him,” “through him” denotes that Jesus was the “Intermediate and sustaining Agent” (A.T.Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament) Jesus was the instrumentality the God used to create. This is further clarified by A.T. Robertson, who says, “In 1 Cor 8:6, Paul distinguishes between the Father as the PRIMARY SOURCE (Ek, Ex) of the all things and the Son as the INTERMEDIATE AGENT as here(dia) - Caps are mine for emphasis. Therefore, is is clear Paul writing Colossians is under no illusion attributing the cause of creation away from the Father and give it to the Son. Less there be contradiction in Paul’s writings!
Image means image not real.,seems to be is another thing when we see god we see god we dont see jessus but it might that we think of father because of our imagespirit.
Mormons don't believe Jesus was created... maybe some do, but if do, they don't understand the scriptures. I was LDS for 47 years, until last year. Just wanted to inform you of that. I was taught that Jesus's premortal name was YHWH, sometimes pronounced Jehovah. Is that not what you believe?
First, thanks for letting me know. Glad you’ve come out of that and thanks so much for enjoying my channel 😃Anyway, Correct me if I’m wrong, but Brigham and Smith both taught that God was once a man like us, and we must become God’s ourselves like God did. Jesus being the brother of Satan would have had a beginning, created by his God. Scripture teachers that Jesus is the eternal God incarnate. That God has always been God from eternity with no beginning. YHWH is the name( character and nature) of the Father, Son and Spirit. Elohim would just be a title, which is also given to all three.
Many, John 20:21, Jesus is sent by the Father. Also Jesus prays to the Father, also presented to the Father, the Father says from heaven, “This is my Son”, so Jesus is a distinct person from the Father, yet God. ( John 20:28) As far as the OT God being different, take notice of how many times YHWH gives grace to Israel over and over again. He’s constantly forgiving again and again. There are some wrathful times, but Jesus does talk about hell more than heaven, and at the end Jesus returns and non to pleased. So if we look at both, they both are loving, giving grace, but also have wrath. God’s judgment is perfect, and many times it seems harsh, but he’s standard of righteousness is infinitely higher than ours.
"Firstborn means what it means." There are two definitions to the word, no matter how much you insist there aren't. Context of Psalm 89: Psalm 89 is a Messianic psalm that speaks of God’s covenant with David and the promise of an eternal throne. The psalm celebrates David’s special relationship with God and his role as a significant figure in God’s plan. Symbolic Meaning of “Firstborn”: The term “firstborn” carries more than just a literal birth order. In ancient Hebrew culture, the firstborn held special privileges, including a double portion of inheritance, blessings, and leadership within the family. It symbolized primacy, honor, and exaltation. David as God’s Chosen One: David was chosen by God to be the king of Israel. Despite being the youngest son of Jesse, God elevated David to a position of great prominence. In this sense, David is spiritually and symbolically the “firstborn” of God among the kings of the earth. Typology and Messianic Foreshadowing: The concept of “firstborn” in Psalm 89 points beyond David to the greater Son of David, who is Jesus Christ. Jesus is the ultimate fulfillment of the Messianic promise, the true Firstborn who holds preeminence over all creation (Colossians 1:15). Psalm 89 foreshadows the eternal reign of Christ, who is both the Son of David and the Son of God.
@@evanwindom as long as the word born is in firstborn it means that the person referred to had a beginning. there is no way of getting around that. the word is not lead it is first born in other words born first. no matter who gets that title the word born is in there so both terms apply to the recipient
@@bretherenlee1404 No one is saying that David didn't have a beginning, but you can't just apply that to Jesus because you've decided that's what it means. "...no matter who gets that title, the word born is in there so both terms apply to the recipient". According to who? You? What a HUGE logical leap you're making there. I included the word "lead" as an example. Does it mean: - Lead (verb), as in "lead a horse to water"? - Lead (noun), the rope with which you might lead (verb) the horse to water? - Lead (noun), the heavy, pliable metal with the periodic table symbol of Pb? One word, several meanings. By your logic, then, if the word "lead" is applied to a person, he's a leader, a piece of rope, and a hunk of metal. Nonsense. I know you don't think so, but context matters. Your opinion doesn't. Neither does mine. You don't get to decide what words mean.
Hebrews 1:6 also uses the word “firstborn” saying, “when he again brings his First-born into the inhabited earth, he says: And let all God's angels worship him.” (NWT 1970 ed.) The Watchtower May 15, 1954 pp. 317-319 rightly recognizes that this is a citation from Psalm 97:7 and Deu 32:43. Psalm 97 is the enthronement of Jehovah as King of Israel. Jesus is the “firstborn” of Psalm 89:27, the son of David who is given the position as “the highest of the kings of the earth.” (NWT) By citing Psalm 97 and applying it to Jesus, the writer to the Hebrews is saying that Jesus is Jehovah, the “firstborn” in rank who is enthroned as the King of Israel and as King of kings (Rev 19:16). In Deu 32, Jehovah is presented as the warrior king. He is the “I AM” (v. 39 LXX), the same whom Jesus claimed to be in John 8:58. He is the one who has the power to kill and give life, just as Jesus claimed in John 5:21. He is the one whom no one can deliver out of his hand, just as Jesus claimed in John 10:28. The Watchtower May 15, 1954 pp. 317-319 again rightly points out that in “the Septuagint Version of Deuteronomy 32:43, the opening part of which reads: “Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him.” Hebrews is consistent with Colossians in presenting “firstborn” as a position of rank, not chronology. Furthermore, Hebrews 1:6 is even more emphatic in is citation of Psalm 97:7 and Deu 32:43 that “firstborn” is a title of rank that is given to Jehovah, the enthroned King of Israel-who is identified as Jesus. No where in Heb 1 or Col 1 is there a suggestion that Jesus had a beginning, but on the contrary, he is presented as Jehovah, the one who is preeminent over all.
Col 1:15 - Firstborn of all creation. the firstborn of the sheep, means the firstborn still belongs to the group of sheep. so the firstborn of all creation means the firstborn belongs to the group of creation
@@LightoverDarkMinistry that's just ur excuse. as mentioned FIRSTBORN no matter what the definition still belongs to that group, that is group of creation. You have to tell then if NOT Jesus, who is the FIRSTBORN (in time as well) of all creation? thE word BORN in Firstborn also means MADE, so it can mean FIRST MADE/PRODUCED see alternate tikto
@@LightoverDarkMinistry Strong's Exhaustive Concordance firstborn From protos and the alternate of tikto; first-born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively) -- firstbegotten(-born). see GREEK protos
@@LightoverDarkMinistry COl 1:18 - He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,u so that he might become the one who is first in all things So if Jesus is only second or a millionth in time , then for you Jesus did not become FIRST IN ALL THINGS, ALL THINGS , so who is that being that is also called FIRSTBEGOTTEN/made in TIME compared to JESUS?
@@bretherenlee1404 "All firstborns are born." Ooooh.... that was DEEP. If you define firstborn in terms of birth order, that doesn't work in the context since David was the LAST born son of Jesse. How, then, do you explain Ps 89:20-27?
@@bretherenlee1404 It makes no difference? How can you possibly arrive at that conclusion? Oh, wait. I know how. You're so convinced that you can't be wrong, that you dismiss out of hand anything you can't explain or that counters your position. David was physically born, but he was not physically a "firstborn" as you define it. He was, by God's own declaration, a firstborn in terms of leadership and preeminence in God's eyes. So, are you disputing God's decision? Good luck with that. If God calls him his firstborn, how do you DARE say it doesn't matter. Heresy.
Paul is just talking about been the firstborn... nothing else. Please, stop twisting the text with other words like preeminent, His abilities or who he is as the Son of God. The topic is just "FIRSTBORN." Period! See my interpretation below.
Even a Christian cannot brush aside the worship of Jehovah as God. In Revelation 1:5 the Son of God called himself "Jesus Christ, 'The Faithful Witness.'" When on earth as a man he was a Jew, an Israelite, to whose nation the words of Isaiah 43:10 were written: "'You are my witnesses, ' is the utterance of Jehovah, 'even my servant whom I have chosen.'" Jesus demonstrated that he was a faithful and true witness of Jehovah God. His genuine disciples today must be the same kind of witnesses, Jehovah's.
Allow me to give you the real interpretation of: "Firstborn over all creation and the firstborn from among the dead" As stated in Colossians 1:15, 18. He is the first and only person ever born Spiritually alive. No one in all creation has ever been born spiritually alive except Jesus. Firstborn from among the Dead Verse 18-- Everyone in this world is born Spiritually dead (thanks to Adam and Ever)and in need of life. Jesus is the only person ever born from among the dead Spiritually alive. When Mary gave birth to Jesus He was indwelled by the Holy Spirit of God at birth. No need to go into tangents here. The word firstborn has no other interpretation except "FIRSTBORN." The religious always have a way in misinterpreting the obvious... just to justify their ego. JV
@@LightoverDarkMinistry before I answer that Why isn't Jehovah God and holy spirit ever called firstborn? Shouldn't father be preeminent over the son ? But yet the bible never applies that to the father And if jesus is not the first created angelic son than who is? Someone had to be the first created angelic son if not jesus Trinitarians can not answer those simple questions They can not answer cause they dont have the truth Clergy of Christendom are just like the religious leaders in jesus day They love there traditions more than Gods word Jesus spoke out against there traditions and hypocrisy
@@AstariahFox Tell you what, let’s talk about it, and if I can’t answer the questions, I’ll remove the video and post a new one on why I was wrong. I’m being 100% serious. Just shoot me an email and we can go from there. Lightoverdarkministry@gmail.com
@@LightoverDarkMinistry theres a website on firstborn done by a bother so it goes through all the so called trinity proofs for preeminent meaning of firstborn and it goes through all scriptures that trinitarians uses as proof I am a JW just so u know cause most time it scares people away and dont want to listen Biblical truths are hidden from the wise and intelligent Jesus said the father reveals such knowledge to children
@@LightoverDarkMinistry My last reply got deleted Anyways there a website done by a brother that explains the firstborn and goes through the so called proof texts they use to support the idea of a preeminent meaning of firstborn
Whoever says “firstborn” means “preeminence” is either a liar and/or an ignorant. The Bible defines “firstborn” as: “ *the beginning of his [father’s] procreative power* .” And *because of this fact* , he is *given preeminence* . This is also confirmed in Genesis 49:3: “Reuben, you are *my firstborn* , my vigor and *the beginning of my procreative power* , the *excellence of dignity* and the *excellence of strength* .” So, based on this definition, in what sense is Jesus “firstborn *of all creation* “ ? *Because he is the beginning of God’s creative powers* , thus resulting in *Jesus attaining preeminence* . (Hebrews 1:2)
You know, when you start by insulting your opponent, you’ve already lost the argument. 1 Peter 3:15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, but with gentleness and respect; Jeremiah 31:9, Ephrmim was the firstborn, yet not the first created. It’s an act of absurdity to apply Gen 49:3 to Jesus. It is not a definition of the word, it’s talking about the person Reuben. Psalm 89:27, David is made firstborn. David was not born first.
I am sorry you took my previous comment as an insult. That was *not* my intention. David was *not Jesse’s firstborn* . However, Psalm 89:27 says: “I [Jehovah] will *place* him as firstborn. The highest of the kings of the earth.” As seen, David was *placed* as “ *firstborn* ” or as the “ *the beginning of Jehovah’s creative powers* . Why ? Because when David was anointed or chosen to be king, it was as if Jehovah God had *produced* a “firstborn” king of the *Messianic linage* . There was *no* other king *before* David to have been *produced* as king of the *Messianic linage* . (Psalm 2:7; Jeremiah 33:17) So, again, “firstborn” has to do with “ *producing* .”
@@jwdefensor8055 Wait wait. You just agreed God is making David a firstborn, and this is a messianic prophecy, and Christ being the king, to which all the world will be reconciled to. So you take that as, David, first born = God begins a messianic line of kings to which the final king will rule forever. Christ firstborn = first creation of Jehovah God, and then all things were made through him, but he’s not at all the creator, and firstborn has nothing at all to do with him being King over creation.
Colossians 1:15 has *nothing* to do with Jesus being king over all creation. First, the text does *not* say Jesus was *placed* as “firstborn of all creation”. Rather, it says Jesus *IS* “the firstborn of all creation.” What does this mean ? Well, as I mentioned before “firstborn” is define as “ *the beginning of a father’s procreative powers* .” (Gen. 49:3; Deu. 21:17) So, in what sense is Jesus “ *the beginning of Jehovah’s creative powers* ” ? I believe *Revelation 3:14* answers the question. Secondly, Colossians 1:16-17 makes it clear apostle Paul is speaking about *creation* , and *not kingship* . Thirdly, it would be *nonsensical* to say Paul meant “preeminence” when using the word “firstborn”, for he clearly demonstrates that “firstborn” *has to do with being the “beginning” of something* . In Colossians 1:18 we read: “ *He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead* .” For what reason ? The verse continues: “ *so that he might become the one who is first [preeminent] in all things* .” As seen, “preeminence” *is the result* , and *not* the definition, *of having a beginning or being the firstborn* .
@@jwdefensor8055 Whoa hang on. You’ve made several errors here I think you need to addressed. Firstly was and is has no bearing, as firstborn, possibly meaning pre-eminent, would be accurate as Jesus was then currently over all creation. Secondly, your are being deceptive, stating that the Greek word means “the beginning of Jehovah’s created powers”, or the beginning of a fathers procreative powers.” You and I both know, that is inaccurate, but you attached that meaning and arguing from your own definition. As I explained, Jer 31:9, the second born is called the first born, so you’re wrong. Also David was NOT the firstborn, but you admitted, that he’s the start of a kingdom. So you either don’t know what you’re talking about, you’re purposefully being deceptive, or both. Also you’re putting your own spin on what Paul is saying, you seem to think that it’s inconceivable that Paul meant preeminent, yet that’s how he finishes the section, all of creation, he created, he died rose again, over all life and death, and because of that, (as Phil 2 says) God appoints him over all, where every knee bows. You can’t even conceive the possibility of this text not meaning what you think it means. Even when the context allows for it. Your “proof” text is nothing of the sort and you know it. This is why you have to ignore scripture, invent your own definitions, and say that even considering the alternative is nonsensical. Btw, revelation 3:14, that’s coming out next week, so stay tuned.
If I am told that Tom was the FIRST in his class, it is obvious that Tom came FIRST among OTHERS of his class. Colossians 1:15 states that Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of ALL CREATION It means that among those CREATED, Jesus was the FIRST. What firstborn could mean in another CONTEXT has no bearing on what it clearly means at Colossians 1:15. It is obvious that all this going everywhere but getting nowhere is a futile exercise to discredit what Colossians 1:15 clearly states. Proverbs 8:22 CEB The Lord (Jehovah) CREATED ME AT THE BEGINNING of his way, before his deeds long in the past.
@Tonga Khan How did you come to this understanding of Colossians 1:15? Was it through your own diligence and studying the scriptures alone? Or did you get this understanding from a particular group of men published literature, books and magazines outside The Holy Bible? All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. John 1:3 Since JWs falsely believe Jesus was created the critical thinking question after reading John 1:3 would be, "How in heavens did Jesus create himself?" "...and without him was not anything made that was made" That last part of the scripture puts Jesus outside of the created/creation category.
Proverbs 8:22 says The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his way , before His works of old . Note it does not say Jehovah created Me . Colossians 1: 15 says the firstborn over all creation . Not firstborn of all creation verse 16 says For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth visible and invisible .
@@anonymousprofessor8866 Jesus did not create himself. John 1:3 uses the word PAS WHICH MEANS some of all types and it shows EXCEPTIONS. Otherwise you are saying Jesus CREATED the Father and the holy spirit if ALL things there has no exceptions.
@@ericbulman6692 [Tertullian] regarded the Son as inferior, is evident from the following declarations. He was produced by the Father. “The Lord created me,” as he quotes from the Septuagint, “the beginning of his ways” (Proverbs 8:22). Thus he was the first of all beings produced, “the beginning” of the creation, the first work of God, who, as Tertullian adds, being about to form the world,” produced the Word, that by him, as his instrument, he might make the universe.” (The Church Of The First Three Centuries, Page 85-86, by Alvan Lamson)
