F-15 Eagle vs F-14 Tomcat | Garry Goff 

I got to fly both man that 14 I take it any over f15 except for newer f 15

I kept thinking "Cheer up, Garry!" :D I wonder what his callsign was... "Smiley?"

@@KutWrite EXCELLENT COMMENT, what is his CALLSIGN?

wrong, it was always from day 1 designed to be a multirole air superiority fighter and bomber

@@eatthisvr6 I was in the Navy when we got the first F14's. They didn't carry bombs.

@@pi.actual they were designed to though, thats why the hud had a2g modes, it was built into the avionics from day 1

The F14 can & has flown with a wing broken off and one jammed shut.

What s the use of having a carrier then

Yes of course. He probably won a BFM against an F-14 (hence the patch), but I am sure the F-14 guys got some wins as well. Like he said it was a very difficult fight with lots of scissors, verticals etc. for them because F-14 could turn so tight and accelerate so well with the wings swept back even with the TF-030s.

@@2ZZGE100 that's the way i figured. He won his fight. Somebody else lost his. It is usually how it went back then when they all did pure air to air.

@@ilejovcevski79 Very true.

@@2ZZGE100 Hate to disappoint but while I never got the chance to g h2h vs 14 myself I had many others I trained with that did including several of my IPs and the overall consensus was it avg 6+ to 1 for 15 vs 14 wvr However that said it is massively dependent on the pilot.. as I also leaned from my IPs and then got revenge for such late on lol

@@kindanyume I have researched and read book first hand. AIMEVAL/ACEVAL had F-14A with TF-030 with 2:1 over the F-15 in 1980 (Paul Gilchrist's book). Training was a big factor. Chuck Hunter said, in 100+ engagements, my record was roughly 50/50 with the Eagle. I won some and lost some. However, F-14 has advantages in maneuverability/lift/AoA and turning. That is why Eagle drives tried to take the fight at 20,000+ feet in thin air. The A version with TF-030 had TW disadvantage compared to the F-15 and taking it into high atmosphere to 35k feet gave an advantage to the F-15. However, once the F-14 got the nearly 60,000 lbsf thrust GE-F110 engines, it all changed. Tomcat pilots said, the thrust to weight was essentially the same and taking the fight into a vertical scissors fight, the F-14 B/D would match the Eagle in the climb while retaining the turn-rate advantage.

The F-14 was definitely a match for the early generation F-15's, especially that latest model.

NICE! I was with VF-213 from 1993-96 and our pilots were perfect with the Phoenix missile every qual while I was with them, my first command in the Navy.

oh yes, I just made the comment and others. Bobby Estey USN 1977-81 CV64

Well there is a reason why Israeli AF picked F-15 rather than F-14

@@indragunawan1078 The Israeli, could make a Wright Flyer, BI-Plane a serious contender. Bottom Line: Garry Goff was great and funny. I knew a Helicopter Pilot who was just as great, CDR Quick, even his real name was perfect. That guy could drink too. He share his Vietnam stories and was fun.

Umm Nooo not a chance that hands down belongs to the F-5/F-20 Such amazing pristine smooth lines and didnt need any of the heavy fugly flappy wings to try to make it perform stunningly. But while the 14 dosnt win that contest it is far from the looser either.. that "honor" is greatly debatable with many hating the pos 35.. but for looks alone on any modern fighter the fugliest has to be the fugly guppy from hell aka the X-32

Kindanyume .Kindanyume oh god no. F-5 is the blandest feminine looking jet fighter ever produced. Agree to disagree there. Serious its like a Miata

@@kingjames1308 Yep and its also one of the deadliest since its sooo damn good at not being seen til you find yourself chewing on some 20mm rounds... its a sweet sexy supermodel and one of the 1st to have the equiv of the hourglass figure only in its case Northrop referred to that as coke bottle Trust me its a insanely sweeeeet babe to strap into and despite being in bigger newer and far more powerful fighters it is bt far still hands down my absolute fav.. only thing better than looking at it is climbing in and firin it up! and no its not a miata,,, it would be the equiv of a S13 or S15 silvia though,,,

Kindanyume .Kindanyume design is subjective. But on all the “best looking fighters” lists i have seen never even a mention of the f-5 but the TC always on the list. With its high shoulders and swept wings it looks like a muscle car and its mean as hell looking

@@kingjames1308 Design aesthetics is subjective performance is a diff matter so in as much as looks sure u r spot on re subjective as for lists wow you must be in a tc fanboi forum only then since the 5 is extremely well kown and adored for looks as well as by those that fly it. as for muscle car etc and mean looking Id take the 15 over 14 hands down for looks as well and intimidation factor as well Then again to be fair I have never had a chance to even get into the cockpit of a 14 (Not exactly many 14s in the USAF/RCAF lol) and I loved strapping my ass into both the 5 and 15

In DCS. And F-15c isn't even full fidelity.

​@@higfny5410 Rate vs Radius, the F-15 has a better turn (Rate) = w, the F-14 has a better turn (Radius) =R Its simple to compare the both using an algebraic equation to find out who actually has a better rate over radius. Another way to look at it would be G (lift divided by aircraft weight) and velocity squared which is turn radius.

The machine gives the edge. give a great pilot an F14 or F15 and an average pilot an F22 the F22 is going to win. He can just do things the other aircraft are not capable of with ease.

Russian pilots have changed in what way?

Marine Corp F-14's?

@@j2times2006They crash more often.

Wow get his dong out your mouth

@@thirstybonsai1888 I'm sorry your jealous that I like him more than you...

@@thetreblerebel yes I'm jealous of some random guy lol

@@thirstybonsai1888 wtf lol

The Tomcat was multirole from the start as it too was an Air Superiority platform as well as Fleet Defense. Later on it was able to do Ground attack.

The b would stand a better chance than both of em

The 15 could have been given the aim54 easily but inter group politics as usual screw things up even when it could have benefited everyone That said even with the 54 the 15 is superior as a rule esp in the right hands. Then again my fav to strap in has taken both out routinely lol

@@kindanyume its not as easy as you think. They tried to make a naval variant of the f15 with the 54 and there was no advantage. It ended up being just as big and heavy as the Tomcat. You need to read up on the Aimval/Aceval fly off in the 1970's between the tomcat and eagle. Long story short the Tomcat came out on top. After the fly off they decided the eagle needed multi shot ability like the 54. Development was started on the Aim-120 using the guidance system of the 54.

@@dannyboyemt Ive already read up on the 15 naval idea but the 15E ended up built to be capable of such in theory and still w/o bloat the 14 suffered. The bloat of course largely being necessity of course dont get me wrong Im not saying its the 14s fault per se for eating a tug full of ice cream.. its a ton of weight from the swing wing alone and other parts, whereas the 15Es structure is more than strong enough w/o anywhere near the weight gain that was thought back when the 15N was an idea.. (also remember the 15N was a paper idea only the idea being tossed around was extremely early 70s.. vs later return ideas by some that were far more viable due to more knowledge gained and changes in design) Bloat is a massive issue for naval designs and can be amazingly harmful in the big picture.. and is why smart designs do NOT try to build a one for all stupidity like the 35 farce. The FA18 is a perfect example of the bloat being a massive detriment as well and the alt was sadly killed by very dirty internal politics by McD to Northrops detriment when they sadly made the mistake of trusting McD (also thhe alt F18L was sadly not picked up by canuckistan instead of the moron move of the off the shelf FA18 whch is so bad for the job its not funny. Not that the FA18 is bad for Navy use either but it was a shit pic for the job in Canuckistan.. since it couldn't go from Montreal to Toronto on internal fuel alone.. /facepalm. The F18L however would have been far far more capable in almost every way over the FA18 due to the massive weight diff.. and as is well known the fA18 (despite being Northrop brilliance continuing the N158 line per se with improvements) is under-powered and has a very hard time regaining energy as a direct effect. But that said the end result if they had taken the N version with the E later in time it could have worked and been far better than the 18SH Its funny at times how certain things work out at one point and not at another. The same trials (which I already know about but only rep one point in time and are quite limited in scope vs the big pic) helped shape some developments that in turn ended up on the 5 and the 5s "kids" and they in turn helped continue on with other developments that far exceeded the 14s multi-shot. The 54 ended up in the long run as a pricy dud that was barely used and despite the USN foolishly guarding it like a dog with a bone that same behaviour in part helped spell the end of their own toy due to extremely limited use. The rivalry between USN and USAF and other branchs can be a good thing at times. Make no mistake I loved torturing the "Navy pukes' and my dad was a "grunt" (Highly skilled and deadly GB but a grunt as he put it). but that usually stops when there is a mutual enemy and its most often a detriment IMO more with the leaves than with the common men, I like I said make fun of the navy pukes etc and they poke fun back But make no mistake there is also a very healthy respect there and while I still say half of them cant take off w/o a sling shot due to ineptitude (jk) they have GIANT fucking balls landing on a carrier I was trained for simulated emergency landing with cables,, on LAND and that was fun.. and got to go out to a carrier for a tour once and the landing/to was quite fun despite my not being at the controls. But believe me it would give anyone a new perspective on the shit the navy guys go through.. and even more so.. the same as I always thanked the GC that looked after whatever I was strapping into the Navy boys deserve that and more given just how dangerous the deck is to be on.

@@kindanyume admittedly I am a little biased towards the Tomcat but only because I see it as an underdog in comparison to the 15. I tend to always root for the underdogs. I agree with your view on the F35 100%. Good lord what a blunder.

@@kindanyume It isn’t every day you hear someone mention the F-18L. I remember that proposal by Northrop back in the late 1970s/early 1980s. It gave you most of the hot rod performance benefits of the YF-17, with all the modern avionics and cockpit of the F/A-18 evolution, without any of the detriments of the carrier weight penalties. I have to agree with you that it would have been a better pick for Canada, Finland, Switzerland, and other FMS customers. It had 2 additional weapons stations as well once they changed the design to include the intake chin points. 9g capability too.

Thank you.

So in BVR yes as the RIO can lock up targets and fox 3 them one after the other. The F14 also has great 360 visibility and not losing site is import WVR. Also it allows you to pursue one target right up to the point another unit starts to point there nose on you.

Dale "Snort" Snodgrass

Good point. I know the Phoenix can see an Eagle, but anyone in the know here tell me if the Phoenix would be effective against the current state of the art Chinese aircraft?

@@bendeleted9155 But chances are the Eagle pilot would have appropriate counter-measures for the AIM-54. I believe Israeli Eagle pilots knew how to deal with Iranian Tomcats armed with Phoenix missiles.

AIM-54 missiles were really designed to protect the Fleet from Soviet bombers and non-maneuvering Anti-Ship Missiles while it was effective against fighters it would have been a lot easier for a fighter to evade the Phoenix... Also, the weight difference was even more a problem with earlier versions of the Tomcat that had under-powered engines the F-14D really made a difference with its F110 engines!

@@robertseiple9340 The newer versions of AIM-54 especially charlies were highly effective against maneuvering targets. Iran even with the old version of AIM-54 scored a lot of kills against maneuvering targets. Even though he fought the F-14A, F-14 had a lot of advantages over the F-15 in BFM as he says the fight was very hard (and someone else in an F-14 won "The Tomcat guys ate him for lunch") and there are many stories on the other side as well.

@@bendeleted9155 Sure. So, first off, the Phoenix was pretty advanced (it was fox 3-capable) and it had truly incredible range. However, it was fairly easy to notch (IN REAL LIFE) if you could terrain mask yourself. The AIM-54C Phoenix was primarily intended for use over open stretches of water, after all. The AIM-120 AMRAAM incorporates many features that the Phoenix had back in the day but the AMRAAM is more difficult to notch over terrain than the Phoenix. Due to its lighter weight, the AMRAAM is also _far_ more maneuverable than the Phoenix. As for modern enemy stealth aircraft, the Phoenix's radar can probably still keep them in sight at close range, but the latest AMRAAMs are a far better choice for shooting down modern stealth fighters. The Phoenix also suffered some reliability issues, so when it comes right down to it, the only real advantage the Phoenix had over the modern AMRAAM was range. I don't know _ANYTHING_ about the new Meteor missile. I hope this helps.

not just that but the f-14 is definitely more bound by its pilot due to not as advanced flight computers.

F-15 landing gear would not hold up. Carrier is to short to aero brake for 7000 feet 😀

Even Hoser admitted Tomcat pilots had to do some tricks to do a fair fight against Eagle. That does not mean the F-14 is not the sexiest, on the contrary.

Yeah it was right on that threshold of the "Big Motor" Tomcats so wasn't sure if he was talking about As or Bs...

@@FromGamingwithLove0456 He said 1987 - 1988 so that must be the A. The F-14A+/B went into service in 1989.

@@2ZZGE100 Yeah okay I must have been thinking about production... pre-service. Thanks!

@@FromGamingwithLove0456 Yeah, there were some prototypes with the GE-F110 engines in testing after 1986, I believe.

Yep the f14 A's air frame an engines were a total mismatch prone to stalling from jetwash

Even F-110 powered Tomcats were in some t/w disadvantage. In fact, F-14 never had any maneuverability advantage above F-15, except for very low speeds and altitudes. Sure, it can turn tight, but this happens because, with the unfavorable t/w ratio, it bleeds energy and speed very fast during turns, while the F-15 can gain energy in the process.

@@andreabindolini7452 And your source and proof of this. What you said is true for any aircraft if you pull to hard in any aircraft and load up the AOA your gunna bleed energy i dont care if your an F-15 or an F-22. Also both aircraft had a greater than 1.0 T/W at 50% internal fuel with a weapons load difference is the 14 at 50% fuel has 8,100lbs of fuel where as the 15 has 6,727lbs of fuel. The point is you can argue semantics all day both planes have their strengths and weaknesses.

it actually has out rated f16 there a video on it

@@californiahighwaypatrol577 I believe it. But to my knowledge it would have to be a "B" or "D" model. They had something like 2 degrees per second on rate compared to the "A" model. The engagement on the video occurred before the GE engines.

@@dannyboyemt yes your right not the A model but the A+,B and D model

TC can turn good but it has others that can out rate it besides the 16 some of which now would absolutely eat the 14 for a small snack assuming eps

@@kindanyume hardly fair to compare the latest and greatest aircraft to one that was designed in 1969.

Not to mention the F-14s could have deployed the AIM-54 Phoenix way further out than anything the F-15 can carry.

@@johnbrennan8611 True but did the Phoenix ever actually work?

@@michaelamos4651 Yes. Pretty much every air to air missile kill the Iranians have with their F-14's has been with the AIM-54. And not only that, they used em in all 3 modes, close range full active, mid range semi-active & long range full active. According to them, who has the most combat experience in the Tomcat, the Phoenix is an excellent air to air missile. So much so that they started a program to build their own version because they love it's capabilities.

@@johnbrennan8611 Fair point. Thanks for the info

@@michaelamos4651 no problem. I mean they didn't really have a choice because they got no AIM-9 or AIM-7's from us, only 54's. And they had the cannon of course.

Yes TF30 PnW. F111, early A7s also. It had issues

Hi James. Do you mean from our Redbubble store?

@@Aircrewinterview yes mike

We are indeed. I appreciate the support. www.redbubble.com/people/acinterview/shop

They would’ve had to make some aerodynamic sacrifices in order to allow it to land on the carrier.

The Phantom II was for the Navy first. The Air Force just happen to like it and adopted it for service.

@Mike Smith : D

Haha, the Fox3 didn´t even manage to shoot down a static helicopter over Iraq, all the Phoenixes ever launched in REAL combat by the Navy failed their target and those targets were far from being air superiority fighters. Btw, against the new F-15EX even the F-14D would not have a bit of a chance.

@@NostalgieFreak better check your self. Your data is inaccurate .

Ah, the simulated kill. Paint that on your canopy!

@@lulujrlaulom7905 The only reported (not validated) Phoenix hits were during the Iran-Iraq war, where some Iranian pilots claimed to have shot down Iraqi MIG-21/23s and Mirage F1s, flying in close formation. Seems as if they did´nt try to escape the missile and those jet are also not very maneuverable and have limited air to air capability.

For an agile fighter, it´s easy to evade the Fox3, watch this tutorial: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-EceMVJjVod4.html

Getting your info from Mad magazine? First, the last Tomcat was produced in 1996. Second, the Tomcat was soooooo bad that they used it as a FAC/A in Afghanistan, which I don't recall the Eagles having the capability of. Third, the only reason that the Cat is dead is because Cheney killed it by making sure Grumman could neither make any more nor upgrade what they had. Grumman has gotten the shaft since the late 70s while Lockheed and Boeing are cashing in. Only reason the E-2 hasn't been replaced is because there's no replacement available. They killed the B-2, and refused the F-23. Not because of performance but because of money. Same reason why the Eagle keeps getting upgraded, the F-35 even exists, and the Stink Bug took over the Tomcat's spot. Which the Navy is going to regret when a couple carriers are lost to long range missiles that the Bug can't handle.

By the same logic, the Eagle is better than the Raptor, which has only one costumer and production has ended.

So basically the f-16 is the winner

I'm given to understand Air Force wings are made mostly of aluminium alloys

They were automatic but the pilot could also manually sweep them.

No mention of his having his ass handed to him as well by a 5 as well.. only the diff is the 5 didnt just have a lucky day or lucky meatsack,, its in the right hands capable of taking down damn near anything I know such all too well Ive been on both ends. (and loved harassin the navy pukes)

@@kindanyume the numbers don't lie. Kill ratio during AIMVAL/ACEVAL for the Tomcat was 2.5-1 vs 2-1 for the eagles and rules changed everytime the kill ratio was in the blue forces favor. "The combat was fierce. The 1000' gunshot bubble was violated countless times by both the blue and red force, in some instances, so that the pilot of the a/c being gunned had both a pipper on their head, and their name clearly visible in the gun footage. This matter of pride and competition was very unsafe, but surprisingly the only loss was a collision between a Blue Force F-15 and Red Force F-5 (no fatalities). Typically if the F-5's got into a gunfight, they were at a big disadvantage because both the F-14 and the F-15 have huge lift bodies, better wing loading and better T:W; Tomcat pilots would (if possible) get slow, drop flaps and drag the F-5's into rolling scissors to get on the Tiger's tail quickly. But getting into such engagements would only happen if the Tomcat or Eagle wasn't killed with Sidewinder shots by the F-5's, which was one of the key points of the exercise: the ability to VID at long range, and splash the enemy aircraft without getting killed " -Hoser

@@dannyboyemt You miss the point sadly Its not that u put X and Y in and X always wins Its that used correctly X will get its ass handed to it by Y if Y is used correctly Hence my exp and many others with the 5.. its older under-powered vs what the airframe can actually take However it is often very underestimated and hence why again used right 14s 15s 16s 18s etc they all have lost to that tiny lil gem knownm as the 5,, and very often not even seen before it was too late. (It even earned the nickname flying razor by a Thai general for it being so nasty to try to spot) I remember my 1st time in the 15 vs the 5.. I figured I had a brilliant plan I knew the 5 quite well and had just enough exp in the 15 to be aware of its immense power and how to use it.. Or so I thought that is.. I made a smartass comment to one of my IPs along the lines of "finally real power I can just run him over" he smirked at me and being an idiot at that time I didnt realize he was smirking at my being in for a shock. Well short end of it was yep I knew the 5 well.. but theres always someone better and one of those in the 5 that day was a long time vet with wayyyyy more time in the 5 than I had.. and well,, i got my ass handed to me on fire it was that bad a thrashing. I was not the only one either.. in our entire group not one of us managed to get a single kill 1v1 with those very "evil" tigers.. made me feel like i was tossed right back to grade school. But we learned from them and learned both how to use the 15 to very good advantage as well as the 5, I still prefer the 5 as my fav to strap into.. granted I dont have the multitude of various fighters that some have been lucky enough to get into.. (Only 3 here total and one was a specific checkout ride with a lunatic trying to make us all puke he "hates" me as I was the only one he failed to get in a looong time). Ive flown the 5 against quite a few diff designs and had "kills" against them all and again I was still a low man on the totem vs the majority, Never got to try vs the 14 in any of them sadly.. wrong place and time But others have, If you look at the overall stats however beyond just US only you can see the 5 had been exceptionally effective.. and remember the US barely used the 5 overall.. a very fooolish mistake in the big picture I remember as well others with far more exp than I had being trounced by the 5 when they were in the 15... and they were good enough to be stationed in Germany (its even in a documentary about the US forces there) UUUUUUtimately though it still goes to show you can have the best hardware possible and used right a lil ol low tech 5 can hand you your ass. Just ask the 22 drivers,, (whom also have been impressed ns scared by the Gripen.. speaking of which IFFFF things fo right for a change and our idiots in office dont screw the poooch yet again we might finally get the new Gripen to build much the same as we did with the 5 many many yrs ago... and avoid the disaster of both the 35 and the bloated bumble trying to pass itself off as a hornet) Oh and also to Hosers comments very true but that is where PS comes in the ones in a 5 and that have very high PS would now better than to fall for that. As proven by both Brazil, Swiss, Thai etc . Take stats world wide fore a more real world picture for the 5 and not just US only. To do less is disingenuous to say the least, Also I would like to know Hosers exp/bg re the 5 and others No doubt he has had far more time with other toys than I got and its all good in then end since we are on the same side (despite my not being a US citizen.. and yes its fubar confusing since I was a USAF officer as well lloooong story) I would love to see the F5EM vs some of the others now along with their new gripens .. Though its too bad they didn't do any possible upgrades for the 5's engines that still was its biggest weak point (and dirty politics killed the 20 which did a ton to address that issue)

@@kindanyume I actually agree you %100. It always comes down to the man driving the crate. I also agree the US should have invested more with the F5/20. I'm very familiar with the fly off with the 16 as well. The F20 is another plane I believe is another missed opportunity sadly.

@@kindanyume its crazy how much the AIMVAL/ACEVAL effected military aviation worldwide. Even the Soviet Union was watching and learning. It changed aircraft procurement and force makeup. It gave birth to their HMCS and archer which weirdly the US decided not to follow suit.

Truth is the phenebomb wasn’t all that good bvr against a maneuvering target. Great against a bear bomber